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I think I liked them both the same...:/ Maybe I slightly prefer the sphere grid because it at least gave all the characters definable roles for a while. The license board was annoying because I suck at making decisions. Ack! Should I spend LP on that spell or this weapon or that accessory??
Actually, I prefer neither. They both had awkward growth opportunities.
I prefer the License Board cause it at least gave you real customization freedom rather than the illusion of it.
The Sphere Grid is literally a interactive form of FFIV's system and true customization opportunities didn't open up until the very end of the game at which point you're party is already powerful enough to finish the game. Basically the customization options in X are unnecessary and irrelevant which is rather counter-intuitive in my book.
I like the License Board more but it doesn't mean it doesn't have its faults. It could have been larger, had more buffs or skills that create more defined job classes. Its very easy to build a party of clones so most unimaginative people complain about that cause they can't stick to strict class systems. Though, I think it would have been beneficial if your party had a restriction on the number of Licenses they can use.
Perhaps they could have gotten License ranks as they got up so at Lv. 50 Basch could equip 255 License points. At which point you equip Licenses on him until the value adds to 255. Just give him a limited options by equipping the best heavy armor and greatswords? or do you lay top level spells and medium level magic armor? It could have been interesting ;)
License board. Actual customization is better than the illusion as Wolf Kanno said, and I had no trouble sticking to defined job classes throughout the entire game, right up until I beat it. In fact, I'd say it was downright easy to keep them to certain job classes. If I wanted a white mage, I'd give them white magic instead of black. Not rocket science, and not hard to do. It's also not as easily exploited later on in the game since leveling still plays a decent role in developing your characters, not just what abilities they have.
I didn't like the License Board (more on that in a sec), but I really don't have an opinion about the SphereGrid, as I mostly just play(ed) X for the storyline.
As for the License Board, the reason I didn't like it was for the reason hhr1dluv mentioned. However, I would definitely throw my weight behind the License Board if they actually allowed you to see ALL the slots from the beginning so you could better plan your characters to reach a certain point. The way it was, I literally just ended up picking at-random without having any clue as to what my party would end up as. I eventually just used the GameShark to unlock them all for everybody to get out of that predicament, but I HATE using cheat-sources for Final Fantasy games.
I liked them both.
I might agree with this if it weren't for the simple fact that they showed all of the license board squares available beside the ones you unlocked already. Like I said before, it wasn't hard to just follow the path if you wanted a white mage, black mage or whatever. It wasn't often that you would have to pick a square outside a certain specialty to move on to the next one in the path. And in the few cases it wasn't obvious which way to go, or in the case of some of the more obscure weapon or armour squares, it's easy enough to find the entire license board online or in guides so you can plan ahead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyric
Even when it wasn't obvious though, it was generally easy to know that magic must be in one section while techniks are in another.
>>> Both are good, but I like sphere grid more because you can erase everything in it, and then make some crazy stuff with it..
But if you just follow the "obvious path", it pretty much defeats the purpose of Customization at which point the Sphere Grid is much better, because you can see EVERYTHING on the grid, and you have the option of clearing spots as well to put whatever you want in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi22
Also, my PS2 is hooked up to the same TV that my computer is, so looking up the entire license board online isn't that convenient. I have to pause the game, flip the TV over to the computer, locate the thing on the internet, download it (if possible), and then continue to flip back and forth as I decide which path to take. Aside from that, it also requires that you have both a computer AND a PS2 running which runs-up your electricity bill (no big deal, but still). It would've been MUCH better (like the Sphere Grid), if they just showed what was on each square (greyed out), and then just activate the immediate surrounding spots to learn. I guess the way the License Board is wouldn't be much of a problem if they made License Points less of a pain-in-the-arse to get in the first place. For instance, if you find out you made a "mistake" earlier on the board, it wouldn't take hours upon hours, and hundreds and hundreds of monsters killed, to get to where you want to be.
You leave out the fact that most of the special spheres that even grant these privileges are generally available at the end of the game. Whic makes this a moot point cause end game-wise in XII you should have unlocked most of the License grid and can customize everyone to do pretty much any thing you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyric
The greyed out areas Vivi22 mention I feel gives you enough information to plan out a character to a certain degree. Like old school FFs, you basically get placed with equipment and spells befitting starter FF classes like Thief, Warrior, and the three mage classes (Black, White, and Red). After you get farther in the board, weapons and augments that belong to higher level classes begin to open up. Sure you can't start the game as the Ninja's but it would probably get boring quickly and you would give him a sub class like thief or Green mage eventually.Quote:
It would've been MUCH better (like the Sphere Grid), if they just showed what was on each square (greyed out), and then just activate the immediate surrounding spots to learn. I guess the way the License Board is wouldn't be much of a problem if they made License Points less of a pain-in-the-arse to get in the first place. For instance, if you find out you made a "mistake" earlier on the board, it wouldn't take hours upon hours, and hundreds and hundreds of monsters killed, to get back to where you want to be.
Sphere Grid doesn't even give you real preplanning, you get to see that after you get past 40 more nodes, you can get Curaga cause its at the end of Yuna's sphere path. By the time you collect the special sphere's to allow you to get their faster, Yuna is probably almost on top of it anyway so you might as well just grind your way to the ability naturally rather than waste the sphere on learning it a few level early.
Not to mention X is so ridiculously easy that using return or teleport sphere's are a waste of time cause god knows the Killer Bees in Macalania Woods are so difficult that using Wakka or Lulu's level two magic isn't enough. We need Flare to fix those nasty things. :rolleyes2
Besides, who seriously changes peoples classes mid-game in FFX? Besides Kimarhi I don't see a point in changing Auron into a mage or Tidus into a thief mid game? Its not like you need two Black mages or healers in X.
As for getting License points in XII being hard... How? A few mark hunts fix issues in the beginning and about the time you hit the middle of the game you are practically swimming in them. Most people complete the license board not out of sheer tenacity for completion sake but because its relatively easy to do cause the board is small and the LP are easy to obtain in droves. Hell, you will probably build enough LP just by grinding for cash to purchase the magicks and equipment you need in the first place.
smurf me now. This man is correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Well, aside from the fact of being able to switch classes at any point during the game in FFIII, and considering how quick FFIII is becoming my favourite FF, I see the logic in what you're saying. And if you say the LP are relatively easy to gain, maybe I just haven't been able to stay focussed on the game enough to get to that point. I'll say what every one of my friends who have played FFXII agrees with me on: Square-Enix put way too much "new" stuff in FFXII from FFX/X-2. First it's getting used to the Gambits, and at the same time having to do said hours-upon-hours of monster killing just to get enough LP for the next License. Obviously, that leaves a sour-taste. They could have also put an OPTION for the battle-system that makes it work more like all of the previous games. That way once I've gotten used to the Licenses and stuff, I'd be able to get myself to start trying Gambits. When I finally give FFXII another try, maybe I'll try just sticking to the prescribed paths of each of the characters and see how it plays out. Maybe, even, I'll be able to change FFXII to FFII for my most hated battle-system. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
The system is daunting at first but later you will laugh at how simple it really is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyric
First, you have the option to shut off the Gambits. This means you will get to input commands somewhat normally like in past games. I highly recommend you put the battle system on Wait mode when you do this. I know it sounds wimpy but XII's battle system is pretty damn fast on Active mode. Its even daunting when using Gambits to their fullest. Once you get more comfortable just use Gambits for things that you absolutely need like Phoenix Down on Ally=KO and basic healing and buff stuff. Once you get comfortable, experiment more with Gambits and throw it on Active mode to see how intense the battles can get.
Also, don't forget you can access your menu screen even in the middle of battle so you can change Gambit settings or even weapons and equipment. The battle system is based around strategy rather than level grinding to get max stats so it allows you these little perks. It allows many fun possibilities and regretfully its major fault is that its open ended to the point of making the player feel lost on what is right, you just need to accept that their is no right way. ;)
I don't know why you'd need hours upon hours of level grinding to get enough LP for another license. I never had a problem with getting enough, and considering I limited myself to only using three characters during the game I was essentially getting half as much as someone who bothered to level up all six characters. Now I did do a fair number of hunts in the game because I loved exploring the world, and I loved the battle system to death, but I was still, if anything, a little under leveled at a number of spots in the game and still didn't have much trouble. I also can't see how you could make a mistake early on that's impossible to get around later. I kept my characters to very strict classes until I beat the final boss and only a handful of times did I get curb stomped by a boss, and that was usually poor planning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyric
As far as getting used to Gambits goes; it really is a pretty simple system. If it's giving you trouble then take Wolf Kanno's advice on building yourself up to it. And like he said, you can turn them all off and issue commands manually if you really want. I personally always kept one character totally manual, and wouldn't hesitate to issue commands to the others if I felt it necessary. I would just set them up with basic gambits to help avoid accidental death due to my not paying attention and some higher level stuff to help with bosses that I'd keep turned off most of the time. Just because Gambits are there doesn't mean you have to set them up so your characters can kill everything on their own. There's a certain amount of satisfaction you may be able to gain from figuring that out, but the game is even more rewarding if you get your hands dirty yourself a little bit.
The license board really annoyed me for some reason, but I didn't play very much of XII so perhaps I just needed to play with it a bit more.
sphere grid-
no contest
Ha, NOOBS! EXPERT FFXII players put it on Active at the fastest setting, because if you're really a PRO, you'll know exactly how the battles in a given location will play out with no deviation.
As far as battles systems, you have to consider what the system actually is and how wel it's done.
To be fair to X, there is a fair amount of customization along the way a character's progression. There are plenty of side clusters of nodes where you can decide to deviate, then get back on the main path, or continue and not waste spaces. Much like FFIX, you may not be able to decide what class your character is, but you have a lot of freedom to decide what kind of warrior/b. mage/thief/etc your character will be.
Also, there are enough times where you can actually just switch classes completely, depending on what Key Spheres you have. My only complaint about the system is how scarce those are.
I'm slightly more inclined to License's, but there's enough flaws in it. Augments and techniques were horribly grouped. Sure, phys augments are on the bottom, with mage augments on top, but that's as differentiated as it gets. A thief will have to take basically the same path as a warrior, and getting every useless augment along the way. Not to mention that so far into the game, you might as well have every character get every augment. So much for customization...
techniques are even worse, it's like the game created a "technique class" route. Instead of getting the techs you need for a warrior (Str/Int/Spr/Def <---Break), those are so far down that you have to go through every useless mage, geomancer, whatever technique just to get it. To get this at any reasonable time in the game, you basically have a Warrior who sacrificed equipment, stat boost, and ability licenses just so he could have the Breaks. It doesn't get much worse than that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
While I agree on most of the faults of the License Board you made, I don't feel its as big of a deal as you let on.
At least in XII, you can choose to take advantage of the augments and skills you learn. Its not like Basch having a few spells or magick augments is really going to affect him if you set him up as a Berzerker using a greatsword. Yes, it may be hard to create perfect classes with absolutely no temptation of making clones; but the system was also designed so you can change around character classes on the fly using anyone. Just like X-2, except without the over-elaborate transformation scenes. :D
I disagree with the comment on the Sphere Grid concerning the option of going down slight paths in the Sphere Grid for customization purposes. Cause most of those paths are short, and cannot drastically change your character. Who would pass up the stat upgrades?
but they both could have also been done better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessweeee♪
I liked the Sphere Grid better. I enjoy being forced into a specific job. It made me excited to look ahead and see abilities, or even stat nodes like +4 to strength. You could really see the difference when you activated one of those. Gave me motivation <3 It also gave the player control over the difficulty and spawned a lot of challenges.
The License Board is nice. I wasn't a fan of all the invisible action jackson it pulled, but it was easy enough to figure out where was what, I guess. Personally I felt XII pressured the player to make everyone exactly the same, though. I lack the willpower to force myself into making each character unique. I am a weak soul ;_;
In my opinion the sphere grid is way more refined than the Liscence board, mostly because it was so easy to complete the liscence board whilst just doing the main quest and sub quest routine.
The sphere grid however gave a different challenge the only character which truly misses out on a defined career is the blue mage Kimarhi at the start of the game on standard he's in the centre with very few options, by the time you work your way to the moonflow however and have a level 1 lock for him to exit his area the only real decision left to you is "who will he follow?" Normally I'd say Wakka or Lulu thus allowing you to enter Auron's section immediately afterwards for some much needed str upgrades.
I didn't like the advanced sphere grid even though it had more blank nodes thus making it easier in the end game to max stats it put most of your chars following the same path early on booo!
I'd have to say however my favourite stat system of all time was the Final Fantasy VIII Junction system because it was so fluid and there was no such thing as ribbon equipment which made training in stat heavy areas was a difficult choice of what to guard against.
Someone who doesn't have that level key sphere, someone who wants to get spells/abilities faster, there's plenty of reasons I could come up with off the top of my head. Just because something isn't as extensive as you want it to be, doesn't mean it's not there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
And your comment about License problems not being that big of a deal - it obviously depends on the player. Not being able to create a basic knight, or just a simple idea you have with a few abilities, without getting tons of LP to plow through unwanted and unnecessary licenses, could definately be a big deal to someone.
I have to agree with Iceglow that the Sphere grid is definately the more refined, or in my words, better thought out and executed of the two. But I agree with him again, VIII probably has my favorite system, literally no restrictions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BolivarSomeone who doesn't have that level key sphere, someone who wants to get spells/abilities faster, there's plenty of reasons I could come up with off the top of my head. Just because something isn't as extensive as you want it to be, doesn't mean it's not there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
And your comment about License problems not being that big of a deal - it obviously depends on the player. Not being able to create a basic knight, or just a simple idea you have with a few abilities, without getting tons of LP to plow through unwanted and unnecessary licenses, could definately be a big deal to someone.
I have to agree with Iceglow that the Sphere grid is definately the more refined, or in my words, better thought out and executed of the two. But I agree with him again, VIII probably has my favorite system, literally no restrictions.
I don't consider the Sphere Grid thought out, not bad so much as I just feel its kinda unnecessary at points. But this has more to do with the fact that the real meat of the system is designed specifically for optional content that I feel is not worthwhile while the lackluster part gets you through most of the story. Its just one of many things that bothered me about X. I do agree that I like the Junction system alot, as unbalanced as it is. I'm a Job Class person myself (FFV/FFT) ;)
Square should just give up on these wacky ability systems and go back to something simple like the attribute/proficiency system in DQVIII or Fallout. The more complex they make these games the easier it is to break them left right and center.
But that's part of the fun Karrellen. I usually look forward to the new systems cause it keeps the series fresh and exciting. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Karellen
I would still like to see something done similar to the FFIX system again that really was quite awesome or the FFX-2 system (incredibly similar just with no equipment changes when it comes to weapons) they worked really well. I think the liscence board wolf kammo suggested would have worked better but in a sense then it'd been very much just like FFIX but with the freedom to set up a character as you wish.
IX's system is ok, I really dislike how it was implemented into the FFTA series though. I would have liked X-2's better if they toned down the useless relics like the Fire Ring that grants you the ability to cast Fire1 only. I also disliked the Garment Grids and their bonuses. For a game that supposedly offered a faster battle system they made you do alot of tedious things in battle. Still, it would be nice to see the system again if they fix some of the more tedious aspects about it.
Personally, I want to see FFT's version of the Job class implemented onto a game. XII's system showed we could even do the movement abilities as well. :)
I prefer the Sphere Grid to the License Board. One of the reasons is that the Sphere Grid was more integrated - it was levelling up and abilities combined. I think it looked nicer too.
But the License Board is also really cool. They're both very good. I just slightly prefer the Sphere Grid.
I'm going with the License Board, it just offers greater flexability than the Sphere Grid. As others said, with the Sphere Grid your fairly confined to a specific path for most of the game. It isn't until around the point you get the airship that you get the apropriate spheres to develop your characters the way you want to. Even at that point you still can't pick what weapons and equipment you can use, though since most of the Final Fantasies since the PS era started don't allow you to pick their weapons that isn't a big deal for me.
License Board on the other hand gives me complete free reign to do what ever the h*ll I want with the characters. I can make any characters any job class, I can deviate from the jobs classes and make characters with just flat out crazy set ups, or I can make my characters walking demolition crews and complete the board, its all up to me. I can pick and weapon, armor, and accessory with any character. This is easily one of my three favorite development systems (with materia and the job class system from Tactics up there with it).
Don't get me wrong, I like the Sphere Grid, X is easily one of the only RPGs I actually like to grind in and its all because for some sick and weird reason I like having my characters traverse the Sphere Grid. However, I just love the flexibility of the License Board a lot more, when I play RPGs I like to have quite a bit of flexibility with how I develop my characters, and XII's offers more than X's in that regard.