Brand New Trailer Revealed.

I have the link to the official website and a downloadable link from that, respectively:
FINAL FANTASY XIII
http://dl.square-enix.co.jp/fabula/ff13/t7ick39w7.flv

North american site: (trailer has subtitles)
FINAL FANTASY XIII | SQUARE ENIX

Here are some gifs from the trailer:
http://i40.:bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou:/34i24g7.gif
http://i40.:bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou:/2yxrmnq.gif
http://i43.:bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou:/fd7z3a.gif

FINAL FANTASY XIII

Go to the trailers sections and watch the new trailer. To be honest......I'm not impressed. Not that I think it looks bads but I expected a hell of a lot more from FFXIII.

Sorry man I already posted this here http://forums.eyesonff.com/final-fan...y-battles.html :)

I actually caught that in the corner of my eye but I just thought it was the jump fiesta trailer that was revealed for VSXIII ages ago. My mistake.

Your thread title gets more to the point I guess lol, if a mod could just merge them or something that would be great..

im not going to lie, i think its pretty baller :D
The game play seems to flow pretty well in some sort of real time gauge[sp?], linking of attacks and magic, mulitcharacter brawl fests, (and if im not mistaken) the very first boss fight we have seem come out of the FNC project! Im stoked! Woot Woot!

Oh, and it now seems apparent that the red-haired character [simmoan? simmean? whtvr] that is often depicted on Pulse was actually banished from Cocoon, AND being chosen by one of the crystals is less of a blessing and more of a curse. Who'd a thunk 't? :D

I can already tell I'm in the minority when saying I was not impressed. Who remembers the original trailer and how they depicted the gameplay there. Now I never expected they would be able to reach that target but geez did they under-perform. That didn't even come close to what that original trailer depicted. I was hoping FFXIII would transcend the genre and put JRPG's back on the map after a few depressing years but what I got was a cross between White Knight Chronicles and Star Ocean. It looks good but I personally think it shows that not even Square can do anything overly impressed with the genre anymore.

Ill even go into the graphics. The CGI looks very impressive but the in-game graphics not so much. Again, they look good but they aren't pushing the PS3 very hard at all. Expected Square could reach the heights made by the Killzone 2 devs but they didn't at all.

So ultimately Ill finish by what I've already said. FFXIII looks good, but not great. And great is what it should have been. Now all of you lot can flame me like I know you will.

I'm in the minority as well Dreddz, :(. I'm very happy with a trailer that finally has gameplay but I was sad it looked like X-2's system reworked a bit. I was really annoyed that it keeps the whole "good guys on one side, bad guys on the other" with minor reaction and change of movement only during a characters "turn". The detail of movements was impressive though, but the action does feel slower than I anticipated and as I said, it feels like X-2's system without XII's freedom of movement.

I still just don't care for the game's world design though. The train section has a VII vibe (even the heavy use of Mako green), the NPCs and their outfits remind me of FFX's Dream Zanarkand, and I've already mentioned how most of the party feels like "borrowed" designs from previous Nomura works. The large "McGuffin" that reminds me of the Zohar from the Xeno series might be the Crystal. Which I'm guessing means the other tower thing we see trapped in ice, must be Pulse's Crystal and considering how the whole scene looks, I'm guessing the normal folk of Cocoon don't know that Pulse has a Crystal.

Overall, its the first trailer I've really liked cause SE finally delivered on a few things I wanted to see but I'm still not getting the whole "This looks SMURFING AWESOME!!! *wets pants*" that other people are feeling. I'm interested but I can probably wait.

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Originally Posted by Dreddz

I can already tell I'm in the minority when saying I was not impressed. Who remembers the original trailer and how they depicted the gameplay there. Now I never expected they would be able to reach that target but geez did they under-perform. That didn't even come close to what that original trailer depicted. I was hoping FFXIII would transcend the genre and put JRPG's back on the map after a few depressing years but what I got was a cross between White Knight Chronicles and Star Ocean. It looks good but I personally think it shows that not even Square can do anything overly impressed with the genre anymore.

Ill even go into the graphics. The CGI looks very impressive but the in-game graphics not so much. Again, they look good but they aren't pushing the PS3 very hard at all. Expected Square could reach the heights made by the Killzone 2 devs but they didn't at all.

So ultimately Ill finish by what I've already said. FFXIII looks good, but not great. And great is what it should have been. Now all of you lot can flame me like I know you will.

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Yes I remember that trailer and that battle gameplay is exactly the same quality as this new battle footage apart from one or 2 missing backflips... im confused by what you mean....

Only thing im not too impressed with at the moment is the design of the secondary characters... They seem a little too quirky and at the same time bland...

ill put my post in here:

I have the link to the official website and a downloadable link from that, respectively:
FINAL FANTASY XIII
http://dl.square-enix.co.jp/fabula/ff13/t7ick39w7.flv

North american site: (trailer has subtitles)
FINAL FANTASY XIII | SQUARE ENIX

Here are some gifs from the trailer:
http://i40.:bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou:/34i24g7.gif
http://i40.:bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou:/2yxrmnq.gif
http://i43.:bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou:/fd7z3a.gif

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Yes I remember that trailer and that battle gameplay is exactly the same quality as this new battle footage apart from one or 2 missing backflips... im confused by what you mean....

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No way. The mechanics are similer but the cinematic presentation in the original trailer was far more impressive. I thought they were going to be able to present huge action set-pieces while still retaining the RPG mechanics. I was wrong. It just looks like an RPG still.

Hold on, are you actually thinking of the ingame footage of that old trailer? There was only about 4 seconds of that, the rest wasnt ingame.

EDIT: Ok i just watched it and i can guess what you mean, although the only real difference it actually has is that the camera zooms in and out a lot, she does a backflip over the enemy, stops time and then kills them all. That time stop thing will be in the game.

In the new trailer you still see the enemies getting launched into the air etc, but the camera stays a bit more still, which is better to be honest. The cinematic camera might be cool for a couple of minutes but you wouldnt be able to know what your doing half the time, and where the enemies are etc...

All in all, i can see what you mean, but i dont share the dissapointment..

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Originally Posted by Croyles

Hold on, are you actually thinking of the ingame footage of that old trailer? There was only about 4 seconds of that, the rest wasnt ingame.

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Well none of it was actually in-game, it was all CG but what they showed that was mean't to represent gameplay still looks more impressive than what they have shown now. The main character was seen dashing through crowds, leaping over people and the camera was also more dynamic as it went from close-ups to long shots very quickly and fluidly. Go watch the trailer again and you'll see what I mean.

i did watch it again, see my post ^
The biggest difference was the camera i think.

I don't like the way they changed the "scrollbar" of commands to this weird bar-thing in the bottom :/ I hope it becomes a scroll bar after more commands are avaivable or something...

Are there any HP at all in the game? I mean this new "ATB cauge" seems to be BOTH MP and HP... At least the trailer showes that LIghtning has more than 800 ATB points (or whatever), but attack, fire, thunder and cure only take 1 ATB point.. and at many points Snow/Lightning get hit, the points also go down. Looks interesting but I hope they won't overdo it. Time will tell.

Oh, what do you think SERAH is? A god like fal'cie or a person (in the subtitles Lightning says _she_)... in Japanese they say sera.

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Originally Posted by Croyles

i did watch it again, see my post ^
The biggest difference was the camera i think.

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And just the fluidity of the combat as well. There is still something quite static about the attacking animations. Also the game just doesn't seem to have anything overly original going on either. I mean the gameplay just looks like a fast-paced ATB RPG with a combo system attatched which looks like it was taken straight out of White Knight Chronicles. It just seems like something I've played before.

Well because I've bitched long enough Ill say what I was impressed by. The art design and hyper-futuristic tone they are going for looks great. Ill admit that the girl in the white robe puts me off (looks a little cult'ish to me) and the bad-guys look like rejected designs from Killzone 2 but I can look past that. The music seems great and has a certain Final Fantasy flavour which I thought was missing from FFXII (there is a musical cue at 2.15 which feels like it was taken from the Galbadia theme from FFVIII, anyone else pick up on that?) And when all is said and done, the gameplay looks fun and the graphics are nice.

Watched it and I wasn't very impressed.

The scenes of the battle system put me off entirely. Looks like a button mash for combos, and muddling through menus all at once. That and the menu system just looks ugly, takes up way too much of the screen, I feel kind of claustrophobic just watching it.

The graphics were pretty through, but that seems to be about it.

Meh, too much sci-fi for my tastes. The battle system looks okay though. :-\

The action and battle system look really impressive. I hope they find the right balance between sci-fi and nature/magic stuff though. And a well-told deep story. That's what I find important anyway.

third that in the minority bunch.. wasn't impressed at all.. gameplay was alright to me, what irked me was all the technology and sci-fi crap.. definitely not wasn't feeling all that.. hopefully there are more nature in this game that that sci fi stuff..

I thought it was pretty. If it has a battle system like FFX-2, I won't be complaining ... I liked that system. Still, I don't think they're /exactly/ the same.

I'm decently excited for this game.

I saw some orange-haired guy and Asian-looking chick, so if I am correct, do we have a 6-member group? It seems plausible...

Ok, how can people judge the battle system just from that? You haven't played it, or experienced it for yourself. It could be very innovative (and it looks like it will be, just from that clip) The CGI is obviously amazing, and the story should be great aswell. Geeze, you people aren't up for anything new!!! :)

This looks exactly like I expected it to look like. Surely all you guys that are actually disapointed by this knew that what was in that 2006 trailer was either a mock up or heavily scripted and the actual game wouldn't be anywhere near as fluent.

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Originally Posted by tidus_rox

Ok, how can people judge the battle system just from that? You haven't played it, or experienced it for yourself. It could be very innovative (and it looks like it will be, just from that clip) The CGI is obviously amazing, and the story should be great aswell. Geeze, you people aren't up for anything new!!! :)

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How can you judge that the story is going to be "great" based on a few dialog excerpts in Japanese?

Can someone extract the higher quality video and upload it somewhere, or is it possible already to download it from other places in non-flash formats?

edit: found one, but quality isn't that great [1280x720 h.264/avc]

I was very impressed! Looks like the FF I've been waiting for since I started the series. Let's hope it is!

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Originally Posted by tidus_rox

Ok, how can people judge the battle system just from that? You haven't played it, or experienced it for yourself. It could be very innovative (and it looks like it will be, just from that clip) The CGI is obviously amazing, and the story should be great aswell. Geeze, you people aren't up for anything new!!! :)

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I still feel the battle system is promising but I was disappointed by how slow it was in real time and the combo system between characters felt as awkward as X-2's system was about it. Basically, it looks like X-2's ATB system crossed with Xenogears system with a bit of tag team thrown in for good measure. Its not bad but it just feels kinda slow and a bit underwhelming from what the original trailer promised.

My only other complaint was the seemingly return to the classic battle formation of "good guys on one side, bad guys on the other. You attack and then move back to your side of the field" shenanigans. It feels counter productive to its predecessor. Oddly enough, I didn't think this one would irritate me as much as I thought it would.

I must admit, it is damn pretty. The graphics are superb. At least Squeenix does not disappoint in that area. This trailer at least puts FFXIII on the 'to watch from a distance' list. I am not going to be following it much because, well, it is still a year or so away from being released and I do not want to get my hopes up.

It reminds me of both FFVII and The Matrix Revolutions.

"We're fighting PSICOM! The best the Sanctum's got!" reminds me of "We're fighting SOLDIER! The best that SHINRA's got!" That, plus a train ride/chase, scorpion robot first boss, and general other stuff in this game make me feel like it's leaning towards a "Look, it's like FFVII but not, but still sorta!" vibe. Could just be me though.

Anyhoo, not particularly impressed. Good looking CG = whoop-de-doo. The graphics look fine in-game, but not enough to change my "meh, I'll play it when I play it" stance on the game.

Eh. The graphics are ok, but I dislike the whole approach toward design and graphics that brings things too close to the uncanny valley.

I much prefer animation that's amazing looking, but also unrealistic at the same time. Like the stuff Pixar does. They make the smart move of NOT making humans appear humans. I guess in general, I'm just so sick of the aesthetics of the recent Final Fantasy games. The graphics just get better and better but the style and design aren't evolving at all. =/ Same ol' same ol'.

Also, too much Sci-Fi, not enough Fantasy.

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Originally Posted by Miriel

Also, too much Sci-Fi, not enough Fantasy.

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Out of thirteen games, this is the third Sci-Fi one, I don't think that's 'too much' at all. But to each her own, I guess.

I, however, feel Fantasy < Sci-Fi.

Methinks some people are being a
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s...50_2larger.jpg

:D

But eh, to each his or her own.
I will admit that this trailer did not make me squeal with excitement...but I'm starting to think that I can't get excited about things anymore. Maybe I'm too old. :-/

I think the only people on the net that hate everything about final fantasy games are right here on eyes on ff lol.

I think it looks good, i dont know if thats because i was expecting less or if i just genuinely like the look of it, although i do still need to see more.

Yeah i wasnt that excited, but i never really get excited by trailers anymore, not like when i was 12 anyway lol.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

My only other complaint was the seemingly return to the classic battle formation of "good guys on one side, bad guys on the other. You attack and then move back to your side of the field" shenanigans. It feels counter productive to its predecessor. Oddly enough, I didn't think this one would irritate me as much as I thought it would.

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I think they did this for one quite obvious reason. One of the biggest criticism FFXII got was for the battle system. A lot of the "fans" hated the battle system. Most preferred the "random encounter" enemies and allies on opposite ends. Square pretty much has a catch 22 going on. No matter what they do, they will be criticized. You can't please all the people all the time.

I'm also not one to get overly excited about a game anymore. Sure I look forward to games, but they don't do anything for me like they use to. I still love RPG's and such, and I either play them until I've perfected it, or until I get bored with it. I pretty much buy every RPG I have time for on the systems I own. If I get a PS3, I'll get the game, if not, owell. No single game will ever sell a system for me, regardless of how "amazing" it is. EVERY game has it's flaws. And NEARLY every game has it's strong points (there are a few with none.) But there has never ever, nor will there ever be, a flawless game. Perfection is impossible in a human society, because someone will always find something to complain about.

THE JACKEL

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Originally Posted by Miriel

Eh. The graphics are ok, but I dislike the whole approach toward design and graphics that brings things too close to the uncanny valley.

I much prefer animation that's amazing looking, but also unrealistic at the same time. Like the stuff Pixar does. They make the smart move of NOT making humans appear humans. I guess in general, I'm just so sick of the aesthetics of the recent Final Fantasy games. The graphics just get better and better but the style and design aren't evolving at all. =/ Same ol' same ol'.

Also, too much Sci-Fi, not enough Fantasy.

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You said it best... more fantasy..

I don't think you should judge the games aesthetics from that one trailer. If you've watched previous trailers it shows other settings far from futuristic. Square have never gone for one overall look in their games so you can bet we'll have a mixture of enviorments. Similer to FFVIII.

sci fi is fantasy, what r u loking for? witches & warlocks? :)

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Originally Posted by Miriel

Eh. The graphics are ok, but I dislike the whole approach toward design and graphics that brings things too close to the uncanny valley.

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FFXIII is no where near the uncanny valley. Beowulf, that's something that is in the uncanny valley.

If it was a game under a different name, most of us would probably be raving right now. I think it looks great - better and more fluid than any JPRG I can remember, with the possible exception of FFXII, but I disliked the battle system FFXII used so to me this is a step backwards - in the right direction. :D

Note: This entire opinion is based on the three gifs as I'm yet to get home so I can watch the full videos. =x But if three gifs can look more impressive than any other JRPG then clearly they're doing something right.

I can agree with Miriel regarding how sometimes it's better to be unrealistic, though. That's something I loved about VII, the blocky characters with massive heads and hands :D I have no problems with sci-fi though. VII and VIII had a lot of sci-fi to them and I think they're the best so far.

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Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9

I think they did this for one quite obvious reason. One of the biggest criticism FFXII got was for the battle system. A lot of the "fans" hated the battle system. Most preferred the "random encounter" enemies and allies on opposite ends. Square pretty much has a catch 22 going on. No matter what they do, they will be criticized. You can't please all the people all the time.

THE JACKAL

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I understand its a catch 22 and was implemented for the backlash of XII's system. Yet I feel it diminishes the overall quality of the cinematic combat system cause your party consistently now returns to their "starting positions". I just feel like they are trying to go forward but fans are preventing them from doing so. Also, could you imagine the cinematic set-ups that would have been possible if characters just stay where their actions ended? You could have a single teammate surrounded by enemies and could perform magic or some skill to knock them all away...

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Originally Posted by Loony BoB

If it was a game under a different name, most of us would probably be raving right now. I think it looks great - better and more fluid than any JPRG I can remember, with the possible exception of FFXII, but I disliked the battle system FFXII used so to me this is a step backwards - in the right direction. :D

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To be honest, my only interest in the game stems from it having Final Fantasy in the title. If it was called something else I would be ignoring it cause I frankly don't like its design. Its plot is intriguing and despite not reaching my expectation in terms of fluidity, the battle system looks good too; but I just hate the design of the world and its characters. Like one person in this thread pointed out, I really feel like the game borrows elements from past successful FFs in order to lure fans.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Like one person in this thread pointed out, I really feel like the game borrows elements from past successful FFs in order to lure fans.

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That would be because Nomura is a hack.

Well have you seen Pulse? That place looks lush, so im guessing there will be a mix of sci fi and fantasy locations (even though i think they are often one and the same things).

Think of the shinra building/midgar, or galbadia, none of those places really looked appealing, and while we are on that subject, most of FF6s locations looked dull and dreary, it was still a great game though.

I dont like the design of any of the secondary characters though. Orange hair? Asian girl who takes her clothes off in the morning and puts them on at night? Little blond kid? Meh.
But lightning, sazh, snow and that vanille girl are designed alright imo, even if it is still Nomura.

I reckon the next final fantasy should be a collaboration between eastern and western cultures. Japan does battle system and story, west does graphics, character design is done by japanese AND westeners and music done by the japanese :)
Yes it will never happen.

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Originally Posted by Croyles

But lightning, sazh, snow and that vanille girl are designed alright imo, even if it is still Nomura.

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Fixed.

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Originally Posted by Laddy

Out of thirteen games, this is the third Sci-Fi one, I don't think that's 'too much' at all. But to each her own, I guess.

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I didn't say that there was too much Sci Fi in the Final Fantasy series, I said there was too much Sci Fi from what was shown in this trailer for THIS particular game. And I'm not into that. I mean hell, I totally fell asleep while trying to watch Star Wars. It's just not my thing. I don't mind sci fi when it's nicely integrated into a story like FFVII or Firefly/Serenity/BSG. But if the primary focus is on the science fiction aspect of things, I'm not too keen on it. Guns and machines and robots, it's all alright, but I'm not a huge fan of it.

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Originally Posted by Omecle

FFXIII is no where near the uncanny valley. Beowulf, that's something that is in the uncanny valley.

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I don't think Final Fantasy is there yet. I don't look at the graphics and think, "whoa that's creepy". But the trend has been to make things look more and more realistic and hyper realistic rather than to steer completely away from that, which is exactly what Pixar does. I'm not really talking so much in terms of character designs looking too human, but more in terms of facial expressions, movement, clothing, etc. Take that instance in the trailer where there's a group of people sitting down and one of the characters looks up. I found that to be eerie.

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Originally Posted by Loony BoB

I can agree with Miriel regarding how sometimes it's better to be unrealistic, though. That's something I loved about VII, the blocky characters with massive heads and hands :D

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Man, I loved those polygonal characters. <3 And I really love the design for the remakes of Final Fantasy for DS. I guess it's just the aesthetic that I prefer. I mean, I was pretty wowed by the graphics in FFX. But since then there hasn't been much of an evolution or development in style. Like I said in my previous post, it's just the same ol' same ol' only a little prettier.

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Originally Posted by Miriel

I don't think Final Fantasy is there yet. I don't look at the graphics and think, "whoa that's creepy". But the trend has been to make things look more and more realistic and hyper realistic rather than to steer completely away from that, which is exactly what Pixar does. I'm not really talking so much in terms of character designs looking too human, but more in terms of facial expressions, movement, clothing, etc. Take that instance in the trailer where there's a group of people sitting down and one of the characters looks up. I found that to be eerie.

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Well, when you start to get to hyper-realistic models, there's more parts to move for animation. When you aim to animate perfectly to what we see in the real world, that is when you get to the uncanny valley because even one of the tiniest most un-noticable feature not moving correctly is when we start to feel creeped out by it (ala Spirits Within).

Pixar, well let's not get into that I'd be here all night, they're the pioneers of CGI and are the most talented folk in the industry. But your point is valid, this is a very good reason for the way they do their stuff.

I still don't really see Final Fantasy XIII as heading towards it, simply because of the style of animation (it's very fast paced and a lot of it not humanly possible; more anime style kind of like a dulled down version of Advent Children). But each to their own I guess.

I'm more dissapointed in the fact that the trailer had no real colourful moments. I am sick of all these new hyper-realistic western games that have boring and dull textures and designs. However, I have noticed in other images and trailers a lot of unique and colour designs so I am staying optimistic.

Edit: I love seeing low-poly work, and I absolutely love the chibi styles of FFIII/IV for the DS. But FF7's extremely low-poly (i.e. block hands) characters were just plain awful, even for back then. But I forgive the creators, it was still a large feat at the time. I would say FFXII really improved on artistic direction compared to FFX, however FFX's design was remarkable, imo. So don't get me wrong, I favour stylized CGI highly, compared to hyper-realistic. No contest.

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Originally Posted by Loony BoB

If it was a game under a different name, most of us would probably be raving right now.

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This is a good point, at least people would act differently. Personally, I don't think I'd be all that interested.

Such is the power of brands - we've come to expect Awesome Things out of the Final Fantasy brand, which has two effects: it puts people's expectations into the stratosphere (which can be bad if they don't live up to those expectations) and it makes people interested in the game when it wouldn't have necessariy caught their eye as some random RPG.

The thing is, the two people who really really made FF shine, have gone. They're busy making things like Lost Odyssey shine. And so far, their successors have yet to prove that they can do much without essentially rehashing old material (X-2, XIII, vsXIII etc) or abandoning most of what people expect and doing practically a different concept altogether (XII). The brand name is still there, most of the people are still there, but the soul has moved on.

(I hope to be proven wrong)

Hahaha, yeah, if it wasn't FF I'd be like, "Oh my god if this is what it looks like then every game after this is going to feel like that one Superman game that everybody says is sucky." But it is, so right now it's "Oh my god if this is what it looks like it's gonna be pretty awesome."

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Originally Posted by Cloudane

The thing is, the two people who really really made FF shine, have gone. They're busy making things like Lost Odyssey shine. And so far, their successors have yet to prove that they can do much without essentially rehashing old material (X-2, XIII, vsXIII etc) or abandoning most of what people expect and doing practically a different concept altogether (XII). The brand name is still there, most of the people are still there, but the soul has moved on.

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If Lost Odyssey told us anything its that Sakaguchi had no ideas left. At least the people sticking around tried to do something innovative with FFXII. If Lost Odyssey was what Sakaguchi's vision of future RPG's was then its a damn good thing he left Square before he turned Final Fantasy stale.

Lost Odyssey is more of a Final Fantasy then most Final Fantasy's are anymore.

And don't talk about stale when SE has reused the same characters for games now, and been milking a game that came out 10 years ago for everything it's worth.

If anyone has gone stale it's SE.

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Originally Posted by Loony BoB

If it was a game under a different name, most of us would probably be raving right now.

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I really disagree with this idea. If this were a game under any different title, I wouldn't give it a second thought. I wouldn't buy, play or be interested in the game in the least. The only reason this game gets the benefit of a doubt is BECAUSE it's a Final Fantasy. Because like Cloudane mentioned, people have brand loyalty.

Anyway, I was super excited about FFXII. I think in general, MOST fans were really excited about XII. So when people express a general dislike or disinterest in XIII, I don't think it's because of some deep held belief that the glory days of Final Fantasy are over. I think it's just that this game doesn't look all that great.

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Originally Posted by Bahamut2000X

Lost Odyssey is more of a Final Fantasy then most Final Fantasy's are anymore.

And don't talk about stale when SE has reused the same characters for games now, and been milking a game that came out 10 years ago for everything it's worth.

If anyone has gone stale it's SE.

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I think Square have done a decent job with keeping the series fresh. Your grasping for straws by saying that reusing characters is making the series stale. Both XI and XII were vastly different from previous entries, and even if you didn't like them you hadn't played anything quite like them before in the series. And guess what, they were made after Sakaguchi had left.

XIII hasn't overly impressed me so far but its miles better than if they decided to return to turn based combat. If you want the series to remain relatively the same forever then go play Lost Odssey. I want something different so I'm happy we won't have anything like that in the Final Fantasy series anymore.

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Originally Posted by Dreddz

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Originally Posted by Bahamut2000X

Lost Odyssey is more of a Final Fantasy then most Final Fantasy's are anymore.

And don't talk about stale when SE has reused the same characters for games now, and been milking a game that came out 10 years ago for everything it's worth.

If anyone has gone stale it's SE.

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I think Square have done a decent job with keeping the series fresh. Your grasping for straws by saying that reusing characters is making the series stale. Both XI and XII were vastly different from previous entries, and even if you didn't like them you hadn't played anything quite like them before in the series. And guess what, they were made after Sakaguchi had left.

XIII hasn't overly impressed me so far but its miles better than if they decided to return to turn based combat. If you want the series to remain relatively the same forever then go play Lost Odssey. I want something different so I'm happy we won't have anything like that in the Final Fantasy series anymore.

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I'll agree that from a gameplay perspective, Lost Odyssey doesn't exactly offer innovation in any substantial form, but it was never meant to. The turn-based combat system was, however, relatively solid. Where Lost Odyssey really shone was in its storytelling (specifically with the introduction of the Thousand Years of Memories short stories interspersed throughout), and that's what made it one of the best RPGs I've ever played in a decade.

That said, I'm rather disappointed that Final Fantasy is straying away from the direction FFXII took; I'm rather upset that the battle system isn't anywhere near as robust as they originally seemed to suggest. It's a battle system which could really make use of manipulation of its environment, and I'm annoyed that they're returning to the whole "allies on this side, enemies on that side" approach.

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Originally Posted by Dreddz

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Originally Posted by Bahamut2000X

Lost Odyssey is more of a Final Fantasy then most Final Fantasy's are anymore.

And don't talk about stale when SE has reused the same characters for games now, and been milking a game that came out 10 years ago for everything it's worth.

If anyone has gone stale it's SE.

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I think Square have done a decent job with keeping the series fresh. Your grasping for straws by saying that reusing characters is making the series stale. Both XI and XII were vastly different from previous entries, and even if you didn't like them you hadn't played anything quite like them before in the series. And guess what, they were made after Sakaguchi had left.

XIII hasn't overly impressed me so far but its miles better than if they decided to return to turn based combat. If you want the series to remain relatively the same forever then go play Lost Odssey. I want something different so I'm happy we won't have anything like that in the Final Fantasy series anymore.

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QFT

I've been playing Lost Odyssey cause one of my friends said it was an amazing RPG... and it's fun and I'm enjoying it, but in no way does it stand out as something truly spectacular. I can only play the same thing for so long before I get sick of it.

I loved FFXII, I thought it was truly awesome and different. The new gameplay really made the game worth playing. Plus being able to make any character proficient at whatever i wanted allowed a bunch of customization. I am looking forward to XIII, to see what new things they can offer. The battle system already looks quite different and I'm hoping it is. even if it has "turn based" combat, if they add new things to vary it more, I will appreciate it greatly. The World Ends With You is one of the best games I've played in a long time, and that's because it was something NEW. While sometimes it is nice to go with something familiar and "safe" it can grow stale quite fast. SE is trying to do a balance of giving the fans of the old games more of what they love, while trying to branch out and add something new.

Now, I personally look at any RPG for any system with interest, so regardless of the Final Fantasy title, I'd look into this game... maybe not AS much, but I still would. But on that note, NO single game will ever sell a system for me. I'm only playing Lost Odyssey now because my new roommate owns a 360 and the game, otherwise I'd never have played it.

THE JACKEL

I'm not a fan of Sakaguchi. In fact, I didn't really like the series until Sakaguchi went away. While I'm already going for it, I should just say I love Nomura too :jess:! This whole forum can now commence hating me a whooole lot.

Anyway, this looks smurfing sexy to me. I'm pretty pumped myself.

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Originally Posted by Dreddz

Both XI and XII were vastly different from previous entries, and even if you didn't like them you hadn't played anything quite like them before in the series.

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Firstly...your mentioning XI? Honestly? It's an online game, of course it would be different from the rest of the games. I don't even see how or why you would use this as a comparison. It's the equivalent of saying WoW is vastly new and different from War Craft 3. Their 2 entirely different genres of gaming require everything to be vastly different.

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And guess what, they were made after Sakaguchi had left.

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Well that would explain why they forgot to write a story for XII then. :monster: It was about 50 hours of grinding followed by a few hours of plot. I hardly think creating a lot of new game play by sacrificing the story is a fair trade off.

I think you misunderstand me, I'm all for innovation, but at the cost of the story and characters, no. RPG's simply put are about the story and characters, not fancy graphics or gameplay. It bothers to me to no extent when games try and one up themselves and others in terms of graphics and gameplay so they can 'redefine the paragon of RPG excellence' when it was just redefined last week. There's honestly only so much rehashing of 'new' ideas before it's all crap rehashed again.

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I'll agree that from a gameplay perspective, Lost Odyssey doesn't exactly offer innovation in any substantial form, but it was never meant to. The turn-based combat system was, however, relatively solid.

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I'll disagree, I think Lost Odyssey was innovative in itself by NOT trying to rewrite how RPG's are played and being probably the first RPG in close to a decade to go back to the very roots of RPG's and do turn based combat. I think it was pretty brilliant just for the fact that they didn't feel the need to spend years creating a new system of something we've "Never seen exactly but kinda sorta have already but not really the same as the game before" that so many other games are doing.

What the hell does 'front and centre' mean? I've never heard anyone use this phrase, and it was in FFX too.

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Originally Posted by Bahamut2000X

Firstly...your mentioning XI? Honestly? It's an online game, of course it would be different from the rest of the games. I don't even see how or why you would use this as a comparison. It's the equivalent of saying WoW is vastly new and different from War Craft 3. Their 2 entirely different genres of gaming require everything to be vastly different.

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I wasn't comparing it directly to the previous games. I'm just saying it was a different direction they took and one that generally pissed off the fans of the previous games. It was more importantly a brave move by Square, something they needed to do after FFX I thought.

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Well that would explain why they forgot to write a story for XII then. :monster: It was about 50 hours of grinding followed by a few hours of plot. I hardly think creating a lot of new game play by sacrificing the story is a fair trade off.

I think you misunderstand me, I'm all for innovation, but at the cost of the story and characters, no. RPG's simply put are about the story and characters, not fancy graphics or gameplay. It bothers to me to no extent when games try and one up themselves and others in terms of graphics and gameplay so they can 'redefine the paragon of RPG excellence' when it was just redefined last week. There's honestly only so much rehashing of 'new' ideas before it's all crap rehashed again.

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FFXII was far from perfect, I agree that its story was lacking and even its soundtrack was less than stellar. But the gameplay felt fresh and innovative at the time and removed some unnessesary aspects from previous FF's by having all the action in real-time. FFXII still remains one of my favourite games in the series.

And if your only playing RPG's because of their stories and characters then why are you even playing games to begin with. I enjoy RPG's for lots of reasons but gameplay always remains the most important. There is a lot of fun from being able to customize your characters and thinking of strategies to fight enemies. The story is just a ways of giving the game meaning. I agree that graphics don't nessesarily mean much but there still a nice bonus. But giving us new ways to go about leveling up characters and whatnot is very important. Especially now when the genre is entering one of its dark ages.

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Originally Posted by Dreddz

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Originally Posted by Bahamut2000X

Lost Odyssey is more of a Final Fantasy then most Final Fantasy's are anymore.

And don't talk about stale when SE has reused the same characters for games now, and been milking a game that came out 10 years ago for everything it's worth.

If anyone has gone stale it's SE.

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I think Square have done a decent job with keeping the series fresh. Your grasping for straws by saying that reusing characters is making the series stale. Both XI and XII were vastly different from previous entries, and even if you didn't like them you hadn't played anything quite like them before in the series. And guess what, they were made after Sakaguchi had left.

XIII hasn't overly impressed me so far but its miles better than if they decided to return to turn based combat. If you want the series to remain relatively the same forever then go play Lost Odssey. I want something different so I'm happy we won't have anything like that in the Final Fantasy series anymore.

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I agree.

I can't help but feel slightly let down with the trailer (also a moment to say I don't like it when FF goes sci-fi, like this is sometimes showing). Have to say though that the graphics shouldn't be a let down as I don't think the trailer is fully justifying them. But hell, even if they are like that, we can expect the next one to be far better in that department as its the first one to grace the next gen console. The differance between FFX & FFXII were pretty big.

But anyway, that aside, I really hope Square don't let us down. I feel if this one doesn't tick the right boxes then it will be detrimental to the franchise. Maybe its because it is the first on the PS3 & 360, but I feel this one has a real burden on its shoulders to succeed. Anyone else feel like this?

Oops, what have I started :laughing:

XII should be called Marmite Fantasy. You seemingly either love it to bits, or hate it. Well, maybe hate is a bit strong, I don't hate it. But I do rate it below any other FF including 8.

I fully respect, but don't personally agree with, all this about change for change's sake and moulding it to what people are demanding. Sometimes what people say/shout/demand that they want isn't actually what is best.

Trying to think of an example - Everquest (online MMORPG) is best I can come up with for now: it was quite difficult getting 'necessary' things done in the early days without other players, and this got tedious sometimes, but it really brought the community together. People complained, but the devs just pointed this effect out and said that's how it's staying. Eventually the people with the 'vision' left, and the company behind it began to mould the game to player demands. The bond-forming stuff disappeared and it's been more like an online single player game ever since.

My view is: if you don't like the style of a traditional RPG, go play something else, rather than expecting the game to become something it wasn't intended to be.
However, the newer people behind FF are saying the opposite: the series/brand/franchise (whatever) is changing direction, and if you don't like it, go play whatever "FF Classic" style games may be out there. That's fair enough, and that's what I'm doing, although I've not given up on Final Fantasy just yet, not after all this personal, emotional and financial investment!

The new trailer gives me a *lot* more hope and excitement than any previews of XII did, so there is hope. The only thing that really put me off was the Star Wars theme (I know there have always been Star Wars influences, but it's never been a clone) and vague hints at what looked like another war story. I would prefer a return to some single Evil Sinister Fellow of Ultimate Evility, but hey, that's just me.

A lot of people hailed XII for its lack of involvement with the characters, saying it was a more subtle story or whatever, and that its lack of teenage angsty moody character or love story was what made it. I disagree. I'm only about half way though Lost Odyssey so far (so no untagged spoilers please!) but I was immersed in it from the very beginning and have been ever since - and so far there are no stereotypical teenagers, the lead character is an adult by far, and no love triangles or blossoming. Yet that is still managing to be awesome, emotionally engaging and immersive. Everything that FF was.

Looks like some people haven't played TWEWY yet o:

i think everyone agrees that FFXII was probably the worse final fantasy in the series.

I think you mean FFX-2.

FFX-2 doesn't count.

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Originally Posted by skillzboy4

i think everyone agrees that FFXII was probably the worse final fantasy in the series.

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HA, I personally liked it more than
2, 4, 7, and 9

THE JACKEL

FFXII is my favorite FF yet.

FFXII is only behind VII and IX for me. Great game.

Naw, VIII and X were a hundred times worse then XII. Despite XII's lack of story, what story it did have was at least cool. VIII's and X's were just bloody ridiculous.

God I wish someone would just close this thread now ._.

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Originally Posted by Jessweeee♪

God I wish someone would just close this thread now ._.

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Agreed.

No final fantasy fan can agree on anything :)

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Originally Posted by Jessweeee♪

God I wish someone would just close this thread now ._.

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ilu Jess.

By the way, you're all wrong. ^_^.

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Originally Posted by Miriel

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Originally Posted by Loony BoB

I can agree with Miriel regarding how sometimes it's better to be unrealistic, though. That's something I loved about VII, the blocky characters with massive heads and hands :D

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Man, I loved those polygonal characters. <3 And I really love the design for the remakes of Final Fantasy for DS. I guess it's just the aesthetic that I prefer. I mean, I was pretty wowed by the graphics in FFX. But since then there hasn't been much of an evolution or development in style. Like I said in my previous post, it's just the same ol' same ol' only a little prettier.

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Sometimes, it is better to be unrealistic under the pretense of the art style of the game. I like the graphical style of the Final Fantasy series and its moves towards realism because they will, eventually, reach a point where the line between fantasy and reality is blurred as technology continues to develop.

I was not a fan of the graphics of Final Fantasy VII even at the time of its release because I had trouble understanding what certain people were doing in the cutscenes besides the full motion videos.

Oh man...

My one real gripe with this trailer is the size of the battle interface. The menu is taking up almost one third of the screen during combat, and the menu seemed to be dominating the action, which, given how much they worked on the cinematic battles and animations, seems a little odd to me. Previous FF games have had menus of a similar size (FFVII, for example), but at least there the menu never interfered with the action. The screen was split into the action at top and the menu at the bottom. In this new system, the action plays out over the entire screen, with the battle menu just overlayed on top of it. The result is that the menu is in the foreground, and the animations are in the background, which is not, in my opinion, a wonderful choice.

There are some other minor things that could be problems, but I don't know enough about the game to form a decision on them yet. We haven't seen anywhere near the game's full range of environments, and the whole "sci-fi instead of fantasy" thing might be restricted to just Cocoon. I also have yet to try out the battle system, so I won't worry about how the battle mechanics are executed yet.

And, as for the "characters returning to their start position after attacking", that didn't bother me at all. The characters moved very fluidly in combat and, when they were retreating to their start positions, at least it looked like they were doing so as part of the battle. Like maybe they were a little too intelligent to just go "Hey, I'm done attacking now, so I'm just going to sit in the middle of this huge group of enemies and hope they don't slaughter me until my next attack".

Just to say: FFXII was awesome! Only behind the epics that are X & VIII.

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Originally Posted by Rocket Edge

Just to say: FFXII was awesome! Only behind the epics that are X & VIII.

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You're my favorite member now :D!

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

And, as for the "characters returning to their start position after attacking", that didn't bother me at all. The characters moved very fluidly in combat and, when they were retreating to their start positions, at least it looked like they were doing so as part of the battle. Like maybe they were a little too intelligent to just go "Hey, I'm done attacking now, so I'm just going to sit in the middle of this huge group of enemies and hope they don't slaughter me until my next attack".

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It only irritates me cause it breaks up the illusion of the moment. You get to see a very fluid battle with the character attacking monsters with a very smooth combo style attack and then he basically runs back to his starting position as though he can't attack without the loving support of his friends beside them. Just watching the video, it broke my suspension of disbelief concerning the battle system. I lost focus on the action was constantly reminded this is a staged battle system with lots of menus. A better option would have been if the character just moved out of the fray and basically make it appear your party is trying to encircle the enemy. Instead he goes back to his imaginary base like the old school games.

Its not that I feel SE is trying to cut corners or be lazy, I know they are only do this to appease all the fans that whined about not having the "classic" turn base system. Its nice that SE listened to the fanbase but I feel the fanbase is being truly stupid on this one and forcing SE to hold back on the game; so they don't upset them like they did with XI and XII. :roll2 I'm more disappointed with the fans than SE.

FFXIII needs a combat system similar to Knights of the Old Republic. It was an RPG that worked in real time that didn't have characters moving back and forth between starting positions. It also transitioned fluidly from fighting enemies to exploring the area. It also had a victory theme when you defeated enemies, for those that missed the FF victory theme from XII.