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I know that the Dragon Quest series has been around a little longer than FF and I have only played one game in the series. It might be a little unfair to judge the entire series just off of one game, but I'm guessing that the series on the whole is unchanging and probably cliched. For those of you hear who have played a bit more DQ what are your comparisons between the two series and I can probably guess that everyone probably prefers FF over it.
I've only played DQ8 and wasn't too impressed with it.
Honestly, these days I like the DQ series more, although I haven't played FFXII. The FF series went downhill for me after FFVI, with the exception ofFFVIIFFIX.
I liked DQVIII okay, but there were times it felt more like work than a game. I tried to play DQVI, but it was just VIII except :skull::skull::skull::skull:ty looking.
Final Fantasy all the way iyam.
I don't like not being able to see my characters in battle in Dragon Quest. I know it's stupid, but for that reason alone I like Final Fantasy more.
I like Dragon Quest's generally simple story (not sifting through dialogue for any long period of time), quicker gameplay (except for 8, which got slow) and better music.
For me, it just comes down to simplicity and better music. I don't really care about the story in a lot of games, because there have been few game stories that have really impressed me. DQ keeps it pretty simple without getting particularly long-winded in combat or exposition.
Other things like the series 'charm' and 'innovative' story methods may be a little harder to explain to people.
It's worth noting that FFVI's entire second half pretty much wouldn't have existed without DQV, and if memory serves one of the creators even admitted as much, although I've lost the interview where they said that.
Why wouldn't the second half of FFVI have existed without DQ?
I've actually been thinking about getting into DQ now that there are a few of them going to be available on the DS. One of the more recent ones for PS2 or 3 looked fun a while back.
Oh, and actually, I REALLY don't care much for the second half of FFVI. It's too optional. It feels like after waking up on the beach and finding out the world was destroyed, the game lost all purpose.
There's a sequence in which you get separated from the rest of your party and have to find all the party members again. I'd reveal more but it'd be spoilerish.
And I actually enjoyed re-recruiting all the characters more than any other part of the game, in part because it enabled me to learn more about their backstories, and also because it was so open-ended.
Fixed for expanded accuracy :P However on that particular point, Dragon Quest IV actually starts you out with each individual member of your party individually. So you get part of their backstory and their purpose for this game bit by bit, until they all meet up with the 'Hero' in the last chapter. This happened in DQIV in 1990 (where FFVI came out in 94). I dont' know what happens in DQV since I haven't played it yet, but at least the concept of individual backstories for the party members goes back that far.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man
I have a love/hate relationship with DQ. Its a series that takes almost every cliche and terrible rpg design imaginable and puts it all together into one game. This, cauldron of crap is so great that it inverts on itself and creates a title that for all intents and purposes is a very fun and enjoyable series. I do enjoy the DQ series but I cannot for the life of me pinpoint why. I hate the battles systems, the job classes are generic and boring, the music is mostly forgettable after the first game and yet I've always managed to play through them to the end religiously. It must be the work of demons or LSD laced into the disc... I don't know. I do recommend the series but its definetly "old school" people looking for deep story telling, enchanting world design, cutting edge graphics, and an innovative battle system should do themselves a favor and go else where.
>>> I played DQ7, it was fine.. I like Akira Toriyama characters and the nostalgia factor of these games..
But im a ff bitch, so i like ff games more..
One could go on for ever, because in some ways they're extremely different JRPG's, yet at the same time they are so seriously the same.
First off, people note how the FF series has much more differentiation among its games, but in the end these are only to a more (arguably) varying degree than DQ - its plot is essentially the same apocalyptic story between a disenfranchised villain and the life force of the planet, whereas every DQ is an ancient lord of demons being reawakened by some other villain, the heroes having some mandate from the respective deity of that game. Most FF have different interpretations on the same core job classes, or hybrids of 2, the battle systems just make a more complicated diversion to get to the inevitable point where a character at a predestined level learns Fire2, as you would in DQ.
I would consider Final Fantasy a little more cutting edge, a little more flavorful, and I give that series as a whole more favoritism.
But I do not think it's fair to hold cliches against Dragon Quest. DQ CREATED the Japanese console RPG sub-genre, just because they stuck to the winning formula that got all of your favorite developers rich, doesn't mean they're unimaginative. In the end they always came up with interesting deviations, such as in III, IV, V, and they continued to utilize that same formula well.
On a final note, I do think Dragon Quest VIII is much, much better than Final Fantasy XII, so in the most recent game department, Dragon Quest has the upper hand. Although I think everyone will agree Final Fantasy XIII will be better than Dragon Quest IX, on numerous levels.
DQ is very the same, each and every one.
FF keeps trying new things, so... FF.
I feel that DQ gets hit with the "samey" aspect purely on the basis that its world design is always the same. It may have new locales but the fact is, you could drop characters from DQVII into DQII's world and they would mesh flawlessly. It would be like if every FF was like the first 4 Final Fantasy's in terms of design. From a gameplay standpoint, DQ does the same as FF in that they do create new battle systems in a way but its mostly a clever disguise from previous gameplay mechanics.
The DQ series keeps rebuilding the DQIII battle system while FF rebuilds FFIV's battle system. Though I feel FF has always been able to hide it much better cause they generally have had deeper customization systems and their choice of going to a much more cinematic view in battle screens allow players to take their mind off the more obvious gameplay mechanics. The only place I feel DQ has always trumped FF is in the area of linerality. The FF series has been moving to a very linear style of play ever since FFIV but DQ is always built around allowing the player to explore and see the world at their own pace. I will never understand how people can enjoy a game where it hold your hand the whole time and optional contenet only opens up in the last few hours of the story.
FF also utilizes its mythos in grander ways and places deeper philisophical meaning into their stories. DQ, in my eyes at least never goes that far cause its created to be enjoyable. DQVII for instance has many clever elements to its plot and pacing, yet it felt to me like they were utilizing techniques that Square was using for FF back in the 16-bit era. This is not a negative statement, I do feel some games should be made for pure enjoyment but I like to point out that FF can be appreciated on mulitple levels whereas DQ cannot cause its very specific in its purpose and design.
As for your last statement Bolivar, I'm actually looking forward to DQIX more than I am FFXIII. :p It will be very interesting to see how the legendary franchise utilizes the DS.
I'm glad I'm not the only one... Not that it's saying much for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Oh, so my predictions on the DQ series was right. Hmm, for those of you who have played more of the older DQ's what old ones before VIII do you recommend?
III, IV, and VII are all I will recommend. I've heard V and VI are incredible though but I probably won't play them until the DS versions come out. DQI is my personal favorite but its the most "Old School" of the bunch so I don't recommend it to everyone. II is pretty good, but III and IV are way better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Depression Moon
Why not just say it went downhill after FFVII?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man
Anyhoo, I definitely like FF better. Too much grinding in DQ and not enough flash. DQVIII however was quite well done and I liked it better than FFXII.
DQ games are fun every once and a while but the gameplay doesn't go through many changes over the years and it gets repetitive, while most of the FFs have unique or at least updated gameplay.
Because I meant FFIX was the exception. Apparently I shouldn't post while sleep deprived.
*fixes post*
Interesting? Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Groundbreaking/historic/breathtaking as how the other legendary franchise utilizes the PS3?
Hardly.
Oddly, I don't see anything groundbreaking about the other legendary series that's being made on a superior system. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by BolivarInteresting? Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Groundbreaking/historic/breathtaking as how the other legendary franchise utilizes the PS3?
Hardly.
Anyone expecting either DQIX or FFXIII to be ground breaking is kidding themselves.
DQIX will be like DQVIII in that it will be groundbreaking for the series but not the genre. Course it may surprise us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karellen
Yeah, this. When a series has had that many new titles it's almost always a case of refinement rather than reinvention. Unless the teams that ensured the quality of earlier entries have departed, in which case it's usually just a case of :skull::skull::skull::skull: :monster:Quote:
Originally Posted by Karellen
I don't disagree as far as the titles in question are concerned, but in general...you really need to play FFXII.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man
Indeed. It's probably down to cheap enough where it'd actually be worth buying even given how little I play games these days. I really do need to set up my PS2 again.
It's clearly raising the bar for the ability of RPG's to take concepts of extreme imaginative properties and represent them in a game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf KannoOddly, I don't see anything groundbreaking about the other legendary series that's being made on a superior system. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by BolivarInteresting? Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Groundbreaking/historic/breathtaking as how the other legendary franchise utilizes the PS3?
Hardly.
That's not groundbreaking nor innovative, its just progress due to superior technology and there is little evidence at this point to support whether XIII will use this technology well or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by BolivarIt's clearly raising the bar for the ability of RPG's to take concepts of extreme imaginative properties and represent them in a game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf KannoOddly, I don't see anything groundbreaking about the other legendary series that's being made on a superior system. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by BolivarInteresting? Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Groundbreaking/historic/breathtaking as how the other legendary franchise utilizes the PS3?
Hardly.
For me at least, I have yet to really see anything about the game that isn't borrowed from somewhere else. Even its combat system holds its origins from early PS1 titles like Xenogears and Legend of Legaia.
Representing the imagination is nice and all but I want a title that can inspire the imagination.
Um, progression is to break new ground, to innovate is to alter or, in this case, to further something already established.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf KannoThat's not groundbreaking nor innovative, its just progress due to superior technology and there is little evidence at this point to support whether XIII will use this technology well or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by BolivarIt's clearly raising the bar for the ability of RPG's to take concepts of extreme imaginative properties and represent them in a game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf KannoOddly, I don't see anything groundbreaking about the other legendary series that's being made on a superior system. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by BolivarInteresting? Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Groundbreaking/historic/breathtaking as how the other legendary franchise utilizes the PS3?
Hardly.
For me at least, I have yet to really see anything about the game that isn't borrowed from somewhere else. Even its combat system holds its origins from early PS1 titles like Xenogears and Legend of Legaia.
Representing the imagination is nice and all but I want a title that can inspire the imagination.
Being that we've already seen the game in real time, I'm not sure how 'there is little evidence at this point to support whether XIII will use this technology well or not".
Also, i'm not sure if you could find a game that doesn't borrow things from somewhere else. You're using pretty vague judgments that could be used for anything.
Please don't quote every single post in the conversation when you are quoting each other. It's unnecessary.
I generally despise getting into "definition wars" but after double checking, you are actually wrong about a few of them. Innovation is defined as bringing forth something new, Progress is building upon something established and groundbreaking is defined as moving in a new direction from the normal path.
Of those three definitions, I still stand on my feeling that XIII has only shown us progress rather than real serious innovation. Course we've only seen a tiny glimpse of XIII and neither of us can say for sure how XIII will truly utilize its technology. It may surprise me but overall, I've only bared witness to a really pretty game, and I stopped caring about graphics ten years ago when VIII came out. :D
I may seem to have a negative bias but it probably stems from the game's rather bland (imo) world designs. Its world really feels recycled and also feels like its trying to relive the last awesome moments of the PS1 and 2 generation. I don't say this as fact, just my opinion coming from my observations of the information given to us. The plot sounds interesting but when every trailer feels like I'm watching a trailer for another Hollywood "no-brains needed" action flick its hard not to be a bit skeptical. At least AC had the decency of giving the illusion of having a real plot in between the over the top wire-fu.
I would say that the DQ has always taken a back to basics approach to the series proper (I'm not looking at games like Rocket Slime, Torneko, etc, in this argument). The core series has always clung onto tradition computer RPG conventions from battles where you simply choose between melee attachs, spells, and items to use, following quests and story archs in a fairly linear manner, and storylines that pit the player against a particular demonic big bad at the end of the game.
Final Fantasy, on the contrary, has always tried to do something different in each new game. The stories are never interconnected from one major FF to the next. The battle systems have constantly evolved, especially from FFVII to present. Square has tried tossing in several different mini-games, and prides itself on constantly trying to push a console to its limits in terms of graphics.
I just look at the two series as being opposite sides of a coin. DQ has stuck to core RPG dynamics, never trying to veer too much from them. This has given the series a much more nostalgic, old school flavor. Meanwhile, FF is constantly trying to do something new, representing a far more progressive approach to the genre.
As long as someone unfamiliar with either series doesn't go in expecting features or design principles more common in one game than another (ie. playing DQ and expecting a FF experience, or vice versa), they should come away entertained. I've always liked both series simply because they take such different approaches to JRPGs.
good to see this back up and I was wondering if DQ is even out yet and will Square try to advertise their DQ series as much as FF because I think if they want to be successful, DQ X needs to come to PS3.
I've never played any DQ. However, I remember seeing screenshots for VII back in the day and thinking "wow! this looks more my style than the recent FFs . . ." and vowed to get in on DQ fun.
I still haven't.
But now that I've read that IV, V, and VI are a trilogy and are all being remade for the DS, I'm gonna start! And try VII and VIII and especially IX when it comes out.
I, II, and III don't look so fun though . . .
I just started playing DQIV this week and I actually like it quite a bit. Hopefully I can finish it, unlike all the other Dragon Quest games I own. :p
I love Dairy Queen. Oh wait...
I've played DQ III, IV, V, VII, and VIII. They are all good, but are a bit generic compared to FF, with its multiple settings and tweaks to gameplay.
Like, with Final Fantasy, I feel like I can do a lot more planning ahead because each game (after the first one) has a unique combat system, and other perks. Dragon Quest feels a little dated (I only have DQV DS, so that's biased), but it has a certain charm. The only real way I can get far in that game is by level grinding and some dumb luck. In Final Fantasy 6, I used different runics and taught different spells to prepare for boss fights, only leveling up when necessary.
So yeah, I like FF's strategic elements, but I like Dragon Quest's simplistic, back to basics approach with a lighter approach to story telling.
Well, if it wasn't for Dragon Warrior/Quest being my first RPG ever when I was a kid, I probably wouldn't have gotten into Final Fantasy at all, so I can thank it for that.
I had a phase where I was absolutely obsessed with Final Fantasy, and that phase has long faded. I still play Dragon Quest games though, a lot more than I do Final Fantasy games.
Overall, I'd have to say it's a tie at the moment.