Need Ideas for a Game

Here is the deal, I lurk here basically everyday and post every now and then (but not a ton, I mostly read all the threads in class :P), so I wouldn't be surprised if nobody really knows who I am. To fill everyone in, though, I am currently majoring in computer science and am getting close to graduating with my bachelor's (December this year). Basically, I really just want to have some projects to throw on my resume that is something that I can call my own, not something that I had to do for school.

Here is what I need from you: An idea for a game that I (and perhaps a small team of volunteers, if anyone is interested) might be able to throw together. As of right now, I am thinking I may want to make a small homage to the old-school RPGs of my childhood, complete with the sprites, 2d-backgrounds, and all that. Think Secret of Mana, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Evermore type games. Hell, maybe some sort of combination of the best of all those games (no random battles, badass characters, excellent music - THINK OF THE EPICNESS!)

If an RPG does not seem like it would work, maybe some sort of action game or something (think Castle Crashers).

As far as the technology goes, I am debating on which tool to use for the game and about what language to use. I am best in the C languages (C++, C# - I know Microsoft has the XNA development tools out now as well, so perhaps if things work out, I can get it on Xbox Live Arcade! I am dreaming big people!) but would not be against something like Perl.

If anyone has any ideas, would perhaps like to help out, or anything else that is relevant to this topic, post here!

Thanks in advance for anyone who helps out with this project!

My thoughts: Games that try to be other games are rarely good. Really, it's why I find a lot of games these days to be rather boring with the whole 'I've seen and done this before' feeling. There are always exceptions, but those are few and far between.

I suggest you brainstorm with your volunteers for ideas-- shoot for something unique or uncommon, and make it your own.

RPGs are time consuming and programming nightmares depending on how ambitious you want to be. You should try to keep it simple if you are hoping to make something that is either demo worthy or at least half way presentable. An RPG is possible but if your hoping to have an idea that you can pitch to a major developer you need to make sure you have all the details and stress what makes your game different and interesting. You don't even need a technical demo, if you can just get artwork and and a well thought out gaming bible in the works you can go off on that.

I'm majoring in game design and these are a few pointers I've been given in my classes. Course my college is still experimenting with the course work but its been very educational so far. :cool:

Overall, I feel its best to start small and build on a fun and simple concept. Epic RPGs are more for people who have time and experience but don't ever forget those ideas, just write them down and use them later. ;)

If you choose to do a RPG, give it something new and original, something that wasn't in the old games. Shouln't be too tough with modern day technology.

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Originally Posted by Momiji

My thoughts: Games that try to be other games are rarely good. Really, it's why I find a lot of games these days to be rather boring with the whole 'I've seen and done this before' feeling. There are always exceptions, but those are few and far between.

I suggest you brainstorm with your volunteers for ideas-- shoot for something unique or uncommon, and make it your own.

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That is true, I more or less was thinking on just the whole presentation and what not of the games I mentioned. Though, you are right, I do need to think of something different and unique. I have a few ideas in my head, but nothing concrete.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

RPGs are time consuming and programming nightmares depending on how ambitious you want to be. You should try to keep it simple if you are hoping to make something that is either demo worthy or at least half way presentable. An RPG is possible but if your hoping to have an idea that you can pitch to a major developer you need to make sure you have all the details and stress what makes your game different and interesting. You don't even need a technical demo, if you can just get artwork and and a well thought out gaming bible in the works you can go off on that.

I'm majoring in game design and these are a few pointers I've been given in my classes. Course my college is still experimenting with the course work but its been very educational so far. :cool:

Overall, I feel its best to start small and build on a fun and simple concept. Epic RPGs are more for people who have time and experience but don't ever forget those ideas, just write them down and use them later.

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Aye, the coding would very much be a pain for an RPG, I do think it would be a rather overwhelming task for a first game. I am thinking I may start out with some sort of fun little action game or something. Keep in mind, though, I do not expect this to be a small little project. I know it will take a lot of time and work, but I know it would be a wonderful learning experience.

Keep the comments coming people! :) Maybe even if someone has a game they have thought up and do not have the coding experience necessary, pitch the idea to me! ;)

The only cool thing old-school RPGs have to offer are character designs and story. Rarely, if ever, do you find anything else worthwhile like extra game features, battle mechanics, music, altering storyline, minigames, etc. IMO it's those missing puzzle pieces that make most, if not all old-school RPGs mediocre... in fact, modern R-fans would agree that even the latest RPGs are still mediocre without this even though they've got hotter graphics. Sure, we like the graphics better, but it doesn't cover up the fact that the game is just a replicant.

I've been working on a game concept that is like no other. One is styled after an RPG genre and another is more action/adventure. The interesting part is they incorporate mechanics from other games like Platformers, Drivers, FPS, Run-N-Gun, Fighters, and Puzzlers (like ICO/Shadow of the Colossus, etc.) and they're meant to not be half-assed. That's the kind of game I've been looking forward to for a long time.

Create a good story. Anybody who bothers to play low-graphic RPG's will want to be sucked into the storyline or they'll quit after a little while. It's the reason why people still play old games, nostalgia is one thing, but mostly because the stories used to be pretty good.

I rarely play new shooters these days, because it's always the same thing in and out, try to mix in new things along the storyline to keep the player enthoused.

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

The only cool thing old-school RPGs have to offer are character designs and story. Rarely, if ever, do you find anything else worthwhile like extra game features, battle mechanics, music, altering storyline, minigames, etc. IMO it's those missing puzzle pieces that make most, if not all old-school RPGs mediocre... in fact, modern R-fans would agree that even the latest RPGs are still mediocre without this even though they've got hotter graphics. Sure, we like the graphics better, but it doesn't cover up the fact that the game is just a replicant.

I've been working on a game concept that is like no other. One is styled after an RPG genre and another is more action/adventure. The interesting part is they incorporate mechanics from other games like Platformers, Drivers, FPS, Run-N-Gun, Fighters, and Puzzlers (like ICO/Shadow of the Colossus, etc.) and they're meant to not be half-assed. That's the kind of game I've been looking forward to for a long time.

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The sad thing about the games industry is the lack of such innovation and risk taking. Sure, companies need to make money, and every now and then a game will try a new thing or two, but it really comes down to the indie developers to make the ground breaking game mechanics. Which, is what we should both aspire to Mercen-X.

Hey Magixion , of course I know you! You're the one majoring in computer science and getting close to graduating with your bachelor's. December this year , if my memory serves me;).
I would really love to help you out but I'm just a C# beginner so I wouldn't do you much good. But you could ask NeoTifa perhaps...she mentioned something about wanting to make a game in C# ,so...

P.S. if you know of some good C# tutorials please do tell! Good luck with your project:D

Let's play a trick on all the RP fans who've gotten themselves used to walking into other people's houses and stealing their stuff. Let's make it a requirement to ask permission... which might not always be granted. If you try to steal, something randomly bad will happen like a battle or a chase or something that effects the story or the item you took not working. That'd be great FOR ONCE!

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Originally Posted by trancekuja

Hey Magixion , of course I know you! You're the one majoring in computer science and getting close to graduating with your bachelor's. December this year , if my memory serves me;).
I would really love to help you out but I'm just a C# beginner so I wouldn't do you much good. But you could ask NeoTifa perhaps...she mentioned something about wanting to make a game in C# ,so...

P.S. if you know of some good C# tutorials please do tell! Good luck with your project:D

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Visual C#

MSDN is a life saver for any new programmer. They usually have examples and stuff for whatever you are needing help on as well. Here is a list of some of their tutorials:

C# Tutorials (C#)

If you would like any other sites or what not, PM me or I could even help out if you need any. I have a lot of books and stuff on it with great tutorials.

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

Let's play a trick on all the RP fans who've gotten themselves used to walking into other people's houses and stealing their stuff. Let's make it a requirement to ask permission... which might not always be granted. If you try to steal, something randomly bad will happen like a battle or a chase or something that effects the story or the item you took not working. That'd be great FOR ONCE!

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Hah, great idea. Imagine a player's surprise when they go in to grab a potion from a dresser and the housewife comes running out with a frying pan and sicks the dog on you. Good stuff.

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

The only cool thing old-school RPGs have to offer are character designs and story. Rarely, if ever, do you find anything else worthwhile like extra game features, battle mechanics, music, altering storyline, minigames, etc. IMO it's those missing puzzle pieces that make most, if not all old-school RPGs mediocre... in fact, modern R-fans would agree that even the latest RPGs are still mediocre without this even though they've got hotter graphics. Sure, we like the graphics better, but it doesn't cover up the fact that the game is just a replicant.

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Um... Chrono Trigger and Shin Megami Tensei 1 and 2 do altering storylines and unusual gameplay mechanics and they are both old school 16-bit RPGs. I just wanted to point out that the old games did alot more than people give them credit for.

I do agree modern games are becoming a bit more mediocre depending on the genre and developer. Even games that actually have intriguing game mechanics don't drive the idea hard enough and thus they feel like a sad attempt at being innovative, Eternal Sonata was a good example of this. Others are so complex that only the hardcore could appreciate them like The World Ends With You.

For an RPG, I feel you need to figure out what kind of story you want to do and its setting. From the story, I feel you need to build the combat and experience system based on what you are doing for the world design. We've reached a point in the genre where everything about the title has to be based on the original concept and design. Its in these main parts you need to bring in your innovation and make them a part of it. Concept, Story, and Gameplay.

I wanted to write a story once about a soldier who supposedly dies and returns a few years later as a rogue whose goal is to kill his former Lord's son, cause the child was tied to the end of the world. The child himself appears to be an innocent and now his mother sends her entire kingdom to kill him including former friends who may or may not join him.

Course, I like moral ambiguity and forcing the player into decisions that have no heroic or "nice" spin to it. You are screwed either way. If you want we can start this as a basis if you want or come up with another idea.

Which no doubt explains your admiration for FFT. One that I share, of course. :D

I can help with character designs and game scripting; however I work mainly with ideas and not the nuts and bolts of programming. I have plenty of ideas of characterization, but the characters flow from the story, as had been mentioned. So tone is everything.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

For an RPG, I feel you need to figure out what kind of story you want to do and its setting. From the story, I feel you need to build the combat and experience system based on what you are doing for the world design. We've reached a point in the genre where everything about the title has to be based on the original concept and design. Its in these main parts you need to bring in your innovation and make them a part of it. Concept, Story, and Gameplay.

I wanted to write a story once about a soldier who supposedly dies and returns a few years later as a rogue whose goal is to kill his former Lord's son, cause the child was tied to the end of the world. The child himself appears to be an innocent and now his mother sends her entire kingdom to kill him including former friends who may or may not join him.

Course, I like moral ambiguity and forcing the player into decisions that have no heroic or "nice" spin to it. You are screwed either way. If you want we can start this as a basis if you want or come up with another idea.

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That actually sounds like a really cool idea. I also like the thought of having to make more moral decisions and having to weigh out the consequences. I mean, a lot of the RPGs and games out there are "dumbed down" and make it so you are always doing the 'noble' thing, which I don't think that is how it should be. Decisions need to have consequences, good and bad. For example, if a war is going on all over the world and you are the general, you are going to have to make decisions where men -will- die and you will have to live with those decisions.

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Originally Posted by BG-57

I can help with character designs and game scripting; however I work mainly with ideas and not the nuts and bolts of programming. I have plenty of ideas of characterization, but the characters flow from the story, as had been mentioned. So tone is everything.

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As I mentioned earlier, I would mostly deal with all the programming, seeing as how that is what I specialize in. I would love to have some help developing stories and writing a script, because frankly, that is the area I lack in. Perhaps I will see if I can round up some people and get a small team together where we can brain storm ideas for plot, characters, etc.

As a CS major with similar aspirations, my advice is to not try to do an epic game. Epic games take teams years to make, so as a solo or member of a small team it could possibly be biting off more than you could chew. Try coming up with some smaller, fun, arcade-type experiences. That way, you have a more straightforward objective when programming your engine or can restart/abandon as necessary with less investment.

XNA would be a solid choice to try out on, though if you prefer PC development/C++, using SDL in C++ is really straight forward and a good exercise in 2D graphics.

Best of luck :)

Although you would definitely want to expand on and change the core mechanics and story to make it your own, I think it would be fantastic personally to see a new game that is similar to Illusion of Gaia. Top-down adventuring with a healthy dose of good narrative, and some interesting mechanics to round out the package (in IoG's case, shape-shifting, how leveling up worked, and the abilities gained). I also think that these types of games allow for more freedom in terms of what you can fit into them, as they are not expected to be 30+ hour epics like RPG's.

However, even more realistically it would make sense to just find a fun and arcadey experience to replicate, add in some unique gameplay twist or two, some refreshing visuals and music. A Smash TV clone set in a Chuckie Cheese with ska music playing perhaps. You can work on your epic genre-redefining masterpiece once you have a secured job with a company.

EDIT: Or basically what Hsu suggested.

Another thing I feel is important to mention about trying to make too big of a team is recruiting people online to help you - people will start out very interested, but for various reasons (conflicting schedules, creative differences, general disinterest) a lot of them will bail; I've seen this take place in countless mods and small OSS projects. So along with advising small projects it's also a good idea to work with people who you know will be dedicated - usually yourself :)

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Originally Posted by Hsu

As a CS major with similar aspirations, my advice is to not try to do an epic game. Epic games take teams years to make, so as a solo or member of a small team it could possibly be biting off more than you could chew. Try coming up with some smaller, fun, arcade-type experiences. That way, you have a more straightforward objective when programming your engine or can restart/abandon as necessary with less investment.

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Good call. I really, really wish someone had given me this advice ten years ago when I was actually enthusiastic about developing games so that I would actually have the patience to finish some of them. Maybe if I'd done that, my enthusiasm wouldn't even have evaporated.

Everyone has given great input and I am very grateful for it all. I believe I will start out with something like Rase suggested. I am hoping to get the core gameplay and ideas down and have some playable game working as soon as possible and then I intend to expand upon that. Something like Illusion of Gaia was exactly what I was thinking as far as that goes, so it is funny that you brought it up. IoG was a huge part of my childhood (damn those vampires!). Though, the whole Smash TV type thing seems like it would be the most plausible choice of everything that has been suggested.

So, I believe I have it whittled down to either a Gradius type game or Smash TV type game. Keep in mind it's not going to just be a clone or anything, I will have unique aspects to make it my own and it really just boils down to what my personal preference is as far as those go.

I am going to have 2-3 weeks off of school and am hoping to get a solid foundation for a game set up during that time, so expect an update when I get things in order.

I am also with Hsu here, about staying simple and small; unless your aspirations is just to have a well rounded portfolio. At which case it may be good for you to take different styles of gaming and program for them so you have a series of bite size demos. You don't necessarily need to have one full complete game, if you can show a varied degree of skill at programming different elements in games; I feel that would be enough to catch a developers attention.

Either way, if you want to develop the scenario I created, we can toss the ideas around and flesh it out more. If it goes anywhere, great; if not, oh well. It would be nice to have more of a scenario fleshed out to use for my own portfolio and it will be a great learning experience for all.

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Originally Posted by Magixion

So, I believe I have it whittled down to either a Gradius type game or Smash TV type game. Keep in mind it's not going to just be a clone or anything, I will have unique aspects to make it my own and it really just boils down to what my personal preference is as far as those go.

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Definitely a solid plan :) Having a goal based on the original idea is good to have since it gives you something direct to reach for, but there's always room to expand on that base formula and make it as crazy or original as you want. A lot of critically acclaimed games that have come out recently have done that exactly; using old formulas but putting enough of a new spin to make them their own thing (Braid, Castle Crashers and Puzzle Quest are a few that come to mind)

Good luck and have fun!

I know who you are!!!! Can I help!!!! I'm best with java, and my C++ is a little rusty, but I'll look a book over again if I can. I'm working on an RPG myself in what little time I have. I'm working out classes and stuff now (still in preplanning mode) and was working on some sprites before my compy died. <3

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Originally Posted by NeoTifa

I know who you are!!!! Can I help!!!! I'm best with java, and my C++ is a little rusty, but I'll look a book over again if I can. I'm working on an RPG myself in what little time I have. I'm working out classes and stuff now (still in preplanning mode) and was working on some sprites before my compy died. <3

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I would not be against teaming up for something at all. I am looking to sharpen my skills whenever possible. So, if you want to partner up and see what comes of it, let's do it!

I will most likely just do the Gradius or Smash TV type thing in my own free time and have it be a little side project. If you are serious about creating something, though, let's get in touch and hammer out some ideas, eh?

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Originally Posted by trancekuja

Hey Magixion , of course I know you! You're the one majoring in computer science and getting close to graduating with your bachelor's. December this year , if my memory serves me;).
I would really love to help you out but I'm just a C# beginner so I wouldn't do you much good. But you could ask NeoTifa perhaps...she mentioned something about wanting to make a game in C# ,so...

P.S. if you know of some good C# tutorials please do tell! Good luck with your project:D

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D'awwwwww :bigsmile: I wub you, too fellow DICHead <3

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Originally Posted by magixion

Originally Posted by NeoTifa ^
I know who you are!!!! Can I help!!!! I'm best with java, and my C++ is a little rusty, but I'll look a book over again if I can. I'm working on an RPG myself in what little time I have. I'm working out classes and stuff now (still in preplanning mode) and was working on some sprites before my compy died. <3

I would not be against teaming up for something at all. I am looking to sharpen my skills whenever possible. So, if you want to partner up and see what comes of it, let's do it!

I will most likely just do the Gradius or Smash TV type thing in my own free time and have it be a little side project. If you are serious about creating something, though, let's get in touch and hammer out some ideas, eh?

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:\ I'm a fan of a simple Zelda-like or FF1 type RPG. Simple, with tons of potential for upgrades and improvement.

I had a storyline in mind for mine, then I realized it was too similar to FF4 :\

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Originally Posted by NeoTifa

:\ I'm a fan of a simple Zelda-like or FF1 type RPG. Simple, with tons of potential for upgrades and improvement.

I had a storyline in mind for mine, then I realized it was too similar to FF4 :\

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Well, that is why we have EoFF! They could supply us with ideas :P

If you need code advice, you can click my userbar in my sig :love: So you really want to team up? I'm flattered. Usually people think I'm retarded and tell me to go away :p Is there any spacific deadline, or is it a "before I die" kind of thing?

I did most of the game script for FFX-3 (LNA) if you want to check out my writing (fanfics aside). I tend to favor conflicted flawed characters who are trying to rebuild their lives after severe trauma, usually through interpersonal relationships. I like characters that form makeshift families (even my villains).

I think of my tone as dark heading to light. Some examples:

My perennial favorite is a general who adopts a daughter from a country he conquors. He later befriends a ambassador from the same country who becomes like a mother to his daughter. They share a mutual attraction but are too bound by honor and duty to do anything about it. The villain appears as a necromancer who tries to precipitate a war between the countries. The twist is she claims to be the daughter's long lost mother. I've actually tried to make this using two different versions of RPG Maker.

Another one I've been working on is a demon that possesses a human and recruits all his old lackeys. The thing is, the human host softens the demon's heart so he begins to treat his followers with compassion for the first time. Naturally he also inheirits all his old enemies, including some who are good but self-righteous, and others who are even more twisted than he is. I wanted to make a Flash RPG with this one, but I may just try it as a dating sim (which is much easier to program).

EDIT: I also like designing world maps.

Lets all work together! An open project!!!!

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Originally Posted by NeoTifa

If you need code advice, you can click my userbar in my sig :love: So you really want to team up? I'm flattered. Usually people think I'm retarded and tell me to go away :p Is there any spacific deadline, or is it a "before I die" kind of thing?

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I would love to team up, and as far as a deadline goes, I would imagine it is a "before I die" thing, hah. After all, we do all have our own lives and need to live those as well!

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Originally Posted by BG-57

My perennial favorite is a general who adopts a daughter from a country he conquors. He later befriends a ambassador from the same country who becomes like a mother to his daughter. They share a mutual attraction but are too bound by honor and duty to do anything about it. The villain appears as a necromancer who tries to precipitate a war between the countries. The twist is she claims to be the daughter's long lost mother. I've actually tried to make this using two different versions of RPG Maker.

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I love that plot already. I love my stories to be filled with conflict and to be more "human" than most RPGs are now a days (filled with only noble and righteous people except for a single villain). Seeing as how humans are greedy and selfish in nature, I am all for those types of gritty and makeshift relationships.

If you guys are really serious, let's start this up. Perhaps we could simply just do an RPG Maker type game to see how we mesh and what not? Also, check out this game if you want to see what can still be accomplished by going back to JRPG style games - Blossomsoft

That game (Eternal Eden) is an RPG Maker game that a company made and is actually selling it for $20 online and it received a -very- good review from RPGfan.com.

Anyways, back on topic, I am going to PM you guys so I can hopefully get a messenger contact email or something that can make communication a bit easier.

When it comes to dedication, I honestly feel you can't go wrong with BG. Seems to be up for anything you can dish out.

When it comes to original artwork, BG is a great concept artist. Jirito really knows how to flesh out characters. black orb is an awesome scene and arena artist.

As for story, I liked both of those ideas there. Personally, I had been developing a story that I arrogantly deemed to be better than Kingdom Hearts...

My original plan was to make a game that combined play elements from Kingdom Hearts and the Bouncer. Aeros doesn't always travel with the same pair (with whom you can switch control a'la Rogue Galaxy) and reaching certain story-points allows you to unlock new paths (you can restart with a new character or simply walk their path without Aeros). In this way, you see many different sides to the story and only by walking these paths can you acquire items unique to them. Every character in Aeros's playthrough has an archenemy/rival.
There is a second playstyle mirroring Kingdom Hearts where you play as Michael and acquire allies very similar to the Disney Characters. However, here you can only play as Michael. In Michael's playthrough, every ally shares the same enemy and Michael has his own rival.

I was taken by the story segments in that one SaGa game featuring irreversible paths (I hated that) and wanted to incorporate such visuals.

Sorry for rambling. Just pitching ideas.

as a basic rule all good games have an abundance of ninjas and dinosaurs (and dinoninjas)

I totally agree with puppet here, Magixion.

Here is some advice that I find to affect how the game flows.

Avoid walls of text/dialog and long scenes of story text. They tend to take away from the game when used more then sparingly, as the player will likely get bored.

Don't rely on a single person to do anything that only he/she can do. Stalling production of anything will kill all interest on it.

Find at least three people who are good at spriting if your game is 2D.

Never have anything that requires full dependency on color based things. People who are colorblind play games too!

If you have more playable characters than space in a single party, come up with a way to use them all.

Try and have more then one Villain at once. or even a three+ faction system. Keeps the story interesting.

Define all in game terms in an easy to access manner. If you name a spell for casting Fire magic Suzaku's feathers, very few people will get the reference and not know what the spell does.

Write up the equations for Stats ASAP. It will be best to get it done with now.

Finally, avoid forced level grinding. :p

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Originally Posted by qwerty

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Write up the equations for Stats ASAP. It will be best to get it done with now.
...

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I've been working on that before I even knew Magixion was interested in teaming up (like 3 months ago). We are interested in more people joining in. Mag. is making a forums for this project so we can work together better. He hasn't sent me a link yet to it yet, but he's probably working on it now.

So far we have :

Magixion
NeoTifa
BG-57 (I'm pretty sure he got sucked into our subliminal messages)

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Originally Posted by BG-57

Which no doubt explains your admiration for FFT. One that I share, of course. :D

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Damn straight, you remember that project Skyblade was working on for a sequel to the original FFTA? I loved those characters... :cry:

BTW: I love your characters, especially the general.

Damn, this sounds amazing. Creating an old-school rpg with an original storyline and gameplay twists has been something I'd want to do for a long time.

Can I join this project? I have fair C++ skills, can make concept art (maybe even sprites) and have many original ideas. Oh, and I can also create the music. No good game without good music.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Course, I like moral ambiguity and forcing the player into decisions that have no heroic or "nice" spin to it. You are screwed either way.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

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Originally Posted by BG-57

Which no doubt explains your admiration for FFT. One that I share, of course. :D

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Damn straight, you remember that project Skyblade was working on for a sequel to the original FFTA? I loved those characters... :cry:

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Which is odd, because I am pretty much the exact opposite of that position, which is part of why I hated the original FFT. Not only did they try to press the whole "no good side" thing too much (which I thought was ridiculous), but Delita, a character who is as psychotic as they come, wound up winning.

I liked those characters too, I just wish I was better at writing dialogue for them. :(

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Originally Posted by SwordFighter_Dago

Damn, this sounds amazing. Creating an old-school rpg with an original storyline and gameplay twists has been something I'd want to do for a long time.

Can I join this project? I have fair C++ skills, can make concept art (maybe even sprites) and have many original ideas. Oh, and I can also create the music. No good game without good music.

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We could use all the help we can get. If you are seriously interested, sign up at our forums and we can work something out!

Forums:
Project: N00b | The next epic RPG!

Just had a dream in which I was playing some kind of sidescrolling beat-em-up with simplistic graphics featuring superdeformed sprites of Cloud, Leon (Squall), and Sephiroth.
I only got to play the part where Cloud and Squall had to fight Sephiroth and I watch them jump around and slash randomly (my thumbs were probably moving in my sleep) and then watched as Cloud performed three Clim Hazzard's in a row with the 3rd followed immediately with a Braver. Then I noticed a flashing bar at the bottom of the screen and immediately thought "LIMIT BREAK!" Cloud then performed Omnislash and leapt back as Squall swooped in to perform a quicker version of Blasting Zone that pushed Sephiroth off of the screen. Squall then performed a weird attack where he swung his gunblade and unleashed a giant sphere of liquid that seemed to have, I don't know, souls in it. It had to have come FROM Squall because it went after and ATTACKED Sephiroth!

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

Which is odd, because I am pretty much the exact opposite of that position, which is part of why I hated the original FFT. Not only did they try to press the whole "no good side" thing too much (which I thought was ridiculous), but Delita, a character who is as psychotic as they come, wound up winning.

I liked those characters too, I just wish I was better at writing dialogue for them. :(

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You are a good writer, at least what I've read. ;)

Though I will never understand your dislike for moral ambiguity, especially when it can be somewhat argued that FFTA was filled with them. :)

Unless all members of this project have created complete, working, small-scale projects, I doubt an RPG would get off the ground. Sorry for being a Debbie Downer, but an RPG is quite possibly the largest, most ambitious project you could tackle in a 2D realm.

Think: not only do you need strong, multidimensional characters; an original storyline; interesting and unique weapons/magic; and a believable, fleshed out setting, but you also need an intense amount of different game mechanics.

Firstly, you need an "overworld" system to represent the world map. Essentially, you could use the same engine you use for walking around dungeons and towns, but most 2D RPGs opt for something like Chrono Trigger's overworld. Secondly, you need an engine for your dungeon crawls and what not. On top of that, you need a complex, multi-layered menu system that allows you to use items, assign magic, equip weaponry and armor, et cetera and so on. A leveling system is also essential, although you could just do the basic EXP = Level Up = slight stat boost, but that's boring and uninspired. Lastly, you need a battle system, and innovating there (especially in 2D) is rather difficult with the traditional RPG structure.

I would expect months, if not years to be invested in a project like this. Instead, especially if these games are for your portfolio/resume, I would choose various, smaller projects which you could feasibly accomplish within your time frame (someone said you were graduating in December?). Centre these projects around a "gimmick," a specific game mechanic that will be used throughout the entire game. Take games like Gish, Crayon Physics, Fez, or Braid - all of these games have an original and endearing concept behind them. Multiple small projects will also exemplify all your skills rather than just your RPG making skills. Maybe throw some procedurally generated content in there, too, it's all the rage these days.

If you insist on an RPG, don't go with the lame "giant empires, rebels, evil forces" setup. Do something unique. Also, the way the characters level up should definitely have some sort of choice involved (think the Sphere Grid of FFX).

RPGs being so hard to create is generally overrated. At first I thought it was difficult too and opted to not make an RPG until I garnered some experience. However, I managed to make a complete RPG-text-based battle system all on my own. To be quite honest, RPGs only seem difficult because of the many stats/skills/magic, but many people don't take into account that most action or platform games have advanced physics systems, something most traditional RPGs generally lack.

As for the story, I have some pretty original ideas myself. And no, they aren't clichéd overused tropes that many people use. Just wait and see.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

Which is odd, because I am pretty much the exact opposite of that position, which is part of why I hated the original FFT. Not only did they try to press the whole "no good side" thing too much (which I thought was ridiculous), but Delita, a character who is as psychotic as they come, wound up winning.

I liked those characters too, I just wish I was better at writing dialogue for them. :(

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You are a good writer, at least what I've read. ;)

Though I will never understand your dislike for moral ambiguity, especially when it can be somewhat argued that FFTA was filled with them. :)

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Well, thank you for that.

One of the things I liked about FFTA was that it had characters fighting to do what they saw to be right, even though it cost them a lot personally. While (as my theory of Ivalice shows) their decision may not have been the best moral decision in that case, they chose to do what they thought they should despite it eliminating all the happiness the dream world brought them. Their decisions were not forced from lack of choice, but from their inner strength. At any time Marche could have quit and gone along with the rest of the world, enjoying the clan and living for the moment. But he knew what they really meant, and that, though it pained him personally, he had to try to do the right thing.

In FFT, however, your characters just instill one psychotic dictator in place of another. Marche would have fought Delita as well, and made him come to his senses. He would have done his best to ensure a just and lasting peace, and fought anyone and anything who threatened it. Which is why he is one of my favorite heroes in the series. Ramza just didn't have the inner strength to go that extra mile, to fight his own friend for the good of all.

Oh, and apologies to all of Ramza's adoring fans.

Okay, I was driving through Boston today and several character ideas came to me:

Professor Al Avrid was once a humble academian and alchemist, he retired to a small village that was attacked by an enemy country, using artifical homunculi as suicide soldiers to release deadly flammable spores that leveled much of the town. He has spent years plotting revenge. Although he looks like a harmless old man, he has a precise mechanical mind capable of concocting deadly schemes. He prefers avoiding melee, using a small crossbow if corned.

Flechette Omicron was created from the remains of one of the homunculi that attacked the Professor's village. He's made its spores far more deadly and planned to send it to kill the leader of the enemy country. But over time he has developed affection for his creation and has begun to worry if he has become as evil as his foes. Beginning as a souless automaton, Flechette has gradually gained a humanlike disposition. Although neuter, it has also gradually taken on a female appearance. Very literal minded and ruthless to everyone except the Professor.

Xero was a enemy soldier badly burned in the attack by friendly fire. Although left for dead, the Professor has nursed him back to health. Heavily scarred in mind and body, he has rejected the country he once served and now loyally assists the Professor in his schemes. He wears a demonic onii mask and fights with a sword in combat. Xero has a paralyzing fear of fire and can beserk in battle.

These characters would make good enemies or proto-enemies, as the case arises.

Some extant characters I mentioned earlier. Place names and characters can be changed of course:

General Lot is the regent of Aetheria. He waged a brilliant campaign to defeat the enemy country of Effluvia, subjegating its capital. But he was haunted by the victims of both sides, especially civilians. As the Controllers of Effluvia brought tribute to him, one brought a small child instead. This was a war orphan, who the controller instructed he should raise as his own daughter to atone. That he has done, and although noble and strong, he is affected by a strong guilty conscience. He weilds the magical Sword of Tears, which feeds on despair.

Cassandra Lot is Lot's adopted daughter. She has turned 16 and wants to make a name for herself as a soldier of Aetheria. Naturally Lot is overprotective of her and relutant to let her endanger herself. She is spunky and cheerful, although insecure in her position. She knows nothing of her Effluvian origians, but is drawn to the Effluvia's Ambassador to Aetheria.

Sophia Maxwell is the Ambassador and a Controller of Effluvia. Effluvians are looked down upon by Aetherians (who think of them as uncultured pagans). She is widowed and is strongly attracted to Lot, who cannot consort with her due to their duties and station. She has also taken a shine to Cassandra and dotes on her and her dreams. Sophia wears an eyepatch to hide a self-inflicted wound.

Penumbra Albecross is a necromancer who wears a veil that hides most of her face. She is powerfully and malevolently intelligent, and is involved in several nefarious schemes. But when she encounters Cassandra, she is struck with the notion that she is her long-lost daughter, Amber. Her one sentimental weakness threatens to derail her meticulous plans to gain power.

Are those characters you actually came up with? And Conceptual storyline things? Post them on the forums! And Skyblade, I'd like to see what you had. Maybe you could help us!

Project: N00b | The next epic RPG!

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Originally Posted by SwordFighter_Dago

RPGs being so hard to create is generally overrated. At first I thought it was difficult too and opted to not make an RPG until I garnered some experience. However, I managed to make a complete RPG-text-based battle system all on my own. To be quite honest, RPGs only seem difficult because of the many stats/skills/magic, but many people don't take into account that most action or platform games have advanced physics systems, something most traditional RPGs generally lack.

As for the story, I have some pretty original ideas myself. And no, they aren't clichéd overused tropes that many people use. Just wait and see.

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A text-based battle system is far easier and less nuanced than actual, animated battle systems. Not to mention implementing enemy AI and so on.

Platform engines can easily be tile-based, and unless it's a game based around physics in the gameplay (ie. Crayon Physics) you could probably get away with some pretty simple run/jump stuff.

There are also several very professional and well documented physics engines available for many different platforms.

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Originally Posted by Moon Rabbits

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Originally Posted by SwordFighter_Dago

RPGs being so hard to create is generally overrated. At first I thought it was difficult too and opted to not make an RPG until I garnered some experience. However, I managed to make a complete RPG-text-based battle system all on my own. To be quite honest, RPGs only seem difficult because of the many stats/skills/magic, but many people don't take into account that most action or platform games have advanced physics systems, something most traditional RPGs generally lack.

As for the story, I have some pretty original ideas myself. And no, they aren't clichéd overused tropes that many people use. Just wait and see.

---

A text-based battle system is far easier and less nuanced than actual, animated battle systems. Not to mention implementing enemy AI and so on.

Platform engines can easily be tile-based, and unless it's a game based around physics in the gameplay (ie. Crayon Physics) you could probably get away with some pretty simple run/jump stuff.

There are also several very professional and well documented physics engines available for many different platforms.

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An animated battle system is really nothing more than a text-based battle system with animated sprites and added effects played at the right moments. Also, because rgps tend to have many skills/stats etc. they generally lack any real interactivity. If you've ever created something with RPGmaker, you know how the trigger system works. Compare that to constant gravity calculation, enemy movement patterns, advanced collision and robust level designs that platforming games require.

Combine that with the fact that the narrative determines how interesting an rpg is. Someone who is good at writing stories is also good at creating an interesting rpg experience. This is what, in my opinion, makes an rpg more favourable for a beginner than other genres. Except arcade games, but those are typically small-scale games void of any depth.

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Originally Posted by NeoTifa

Are those characters you actually came up with? And Conceptual storyline things? Post them on the forums! And Skyblade, I'd like to see what you had. Maybe you could help us!

Project: N00b | The next epic RPG!

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The first three were all my own idea; Sophia and Penumbra as well. Lot and Cassandra were originally conceived by my brother. I tried to post them but I wasn't allowed.

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Originally Posted by SwordFighter_Dago

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Originally Posted by Moon Rabbits

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Originally Posted by SwordFighter_Dago

RPGs being so hard to create is generally overrated. At first I thought it was difficult too and opted to not make an RPG until I garnered some experience. However, I managed to make a complete RPG-text-based battle system all on my own. To be quite honest, RPGs only seem difficult because of the many stats/skills/magic, but many people don't take into account that most action or platform games have advanced physics systems, something most traditional RPGs generally lack.

As for the story, I have some pretty original ideas myself. And no, they aren't clichéd overused tropes that many people use. Just wait and see.

---

A text-based battle system is far easier and less nuanced than actual, animated battle systems. Not to mention implementing enemy AI and so on.

Platform engines can easily be tile-based, and unless it's a game based around physics in the gameplay (ie. Crayon Physics) you could probably get away with some pretty simple run/jump stuff.

There are also several very professional and well documented physics engines available for many different platforms.

---

An animated battle system is really nothing more than a text-based battle system with animated sprites and added effects played at the right moments. Also, because rgps tend to have many skills/stats etc. they generally lack any real interactivity. If you've ever created something with RPGmaker, you know how the trigger system works. Compare that to constant gravity calculation, enemy movement patterns, advanced collision and robust level designs that platforming games require.

Combine that with the fact that the narrative determines how interesting an rpg is. Someone who is good at writing stories is also good at creating an interesting rpg experience. This is what, in my opinion, makes an rpg more favourable for a beginner than other genres. Except arcade games, but those are typically small-scale games void of any depth.

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Yeah I know all about triggers.

As for interactivity I think character interaction is a big part of what makes me like a game. If I want just to kill stuff I'd play Doom.

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Originally Posted by SwordFighter_Dago

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Originally Posted by Moon Rabbits

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Originally Posted by SwordFighter_Dago

RPGs being so hard to create is generally overrated. At first I thought it was difficult too and opted to not make an RPG until I garnered some experience. However, I managed to make a complete RPG-text-based battle system all on my own. To be quite honest, RPGs only seem difficult because of the many stats/skills/magic, but many people don't take into account that most action or platform games have advanced physics systems, something most traditional RPGs generally lack.

As for the story, I have some pretty original ideas myself. And no, they aren't clichéd overused tropes that many people use. Just wait and see.

---

A text-based battle system is far easier and less nuanced than actual, animated battle systems. Not to mention implementing enemy AI and so on.

Platform engines can easily be tile-based, and unless it's a game based around physics in the gameplay (ie. Crayon Physics) you could probably get away with some pretty simple run/jump stuff.

There are also several very professional and well documented physics engines available for many different platforms.

---

An animated battle system is really nothing more than a text-based battle system with animated sprites and added effects played at the right moments. Also, because rgps tend to have many skills/stats etc. they generally lack any real interactivity. If you've ever created something with RPGmaker, you know how the trigger system works. Compare that to constant gravity calculation, enemy movement patterns, advanced collision and robust level designs that platforming games require.

Combine that with the fact that the narrative determines how interesting an rpg is. Someone who is good at writing stories is also good at creating an interesting rpg experience. This is what, in my opinion, makes an rpg more favourable for a beginner than other genres. Except arcade games, but those are typically small-scale games void of any depth.

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:( RPGMaker is a little less involved and far less advanced than anything you'd be producing in a C++ or other high-level language environment. Anyway, 2D animation, especially for RPGs where there are so many unique ones, is still difficult.

Also, if narrative is the only thing worth playing an RPG for, why not read a book? I'm sorry, but interesting gameplay, especially in an RPG since you will be playing it for at least 30+ hours, has got to be innovative and exciting ... not just menu crunching.

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Originally Posted by Moon Rabbits

:( RPGMaker is a little less involved and far less advanced than anything you'd be producing in a C++ or other high-level language environment. Anyway, 2D animation, especially for RPGs where there are so many unique ones, is still difficult.

Also, if narrative is the only thing worth playing an RPG for, why not read a book? I'm sorry, but interesting gameplay, especially in an RPG since you will be playing it for at least 30+ hours, has got to be innovative and exciting ... not just menu crunching.

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Of course its going to be a pain in the ass to code. But that's what all games are that take longer than 15 minutes to complete. I still stand by the fact that making an interesting rpg is far less tedious than making an interesting platform game.

There are many, many games of either genre. Creating one has to have some unique features and presentation to make it stand out from the rest. This holds true for any genre that's been done to death. However, rpgs have the advantage of taking a tried and true formula, pasting on a few bells and whistles and present a rich and entertaining story. Platform games on the other hand, require more difficult assets. To make a platformer stand out from the rest, you'd have to be a master at level design, and come up with concepts that enrich the gameplay and work. Of the two, the rpg is definately the easiest to develop.

Hey, BG-57, request to be a developer and you can. I thought you were already, sorry.

...or you could've posted them in the suggestions forum...

It seems like I was a little late, but I would like to make a suggestion. It seems like you guys are pretty set on making an RPG. What if you were to make an RPG that could also be considered a platformer, perhaps in a similar vein as the Prince of Persia games? The reason I suggest this is because of the increased interaction with the environment that kind of a set-up would provide. The environment of a game can be used to enhance the mood and feel of a game, and having a large amount of interaction with the environment offers more chances for the environment to change as the story does and enhance the mood and feel even more. For example, let's say you're on a chase of some sort in which you have to catch up to an NPC for some reason. The environment as you go through this area could offer the player more smaller obstacles to overcome as they run ahead, which would help enhance the feeling of quickness as the player hurdles over each obstacle as quickly as they can.

Also, having this emphasis on platforming could be used to make certain parts of the game challenging while still keeping the atmosphere of the area you're setting up. If you wanted that part of the game to be challenging without the platforming, enemy encounters would have to be set up, which would probably break the atmospheric experience of the area. Let's go back to the chase example. While the chase is going on, and the player is supposed to feel like they have to get to their goal as fast as they can, they run into an enemy encounter. That slows the gameplay experience down to a more tactical and strategic experience, and completely interrupts the speedy experience that was going on before.

However, you guys are going for an RPG, and if the game were to be made into a 2D Platformer, that would probably make RPG fans look at screenshots and say "This doesn't seem to suit my tastes." However, a traditional top-down view also wouldn't work particularly well for a platforming experience. If possible, I would recommend an isometric style. It's been proven to work well with RPG fans, and if you were to go with the Platforming/RPG idea, it would offer a decent view of the landscape for the player to play in.

Anyway, whatever you guys end up with, I'm sure I'll enjoy it. :p I just wanted to offer my ideas.

Edit: Well, this probably ended up coming off as annoying since there seems to have already been some discussion about what genre it should be in. >_< My apologies if it came off that way.

No thats fine. I have no experience with iso tiles, though, and we're tying to keep it as simple as possible for the first go around. After this we could either update it or make a sequel/new game alltogether thats iso and such. Remember, it's called Project:N00b for a reason :p

Ah, okay. n_n

Do you have any storyline suggestions? If you click my link in my sig you can go through there and read what we got so far.

Are you desperately hoping for a story and characters that haven't "been done?" If not, I'd suggest taking a look HERE.

Hmmmmm interesting. You should post that in our forums under suggestions. Theres people from DIC on there too, so just posting suggestions here is kinda like cheating everyone else.

Your ideas are welcome; and we're brainstorming at this point anyway. The winnowing process will be later, when we try to make a coherent script and game.

We have to have a Sebastian though :shifty: teh heh heh

That goes without saying. :D

Some artwork of (L-R) General Lot, Ambassador Sophia, and the Necromancer Penumbra.

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Originally Posted by NeoTifa

We have to have a Sebastian though :shifty: teh heh heh

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Whatever you do , make sure that NeoTifa doesn't name the characters!:tongue:

Haha, thankfully we have BG-57 who has some amazing ideas as far as character names and all that jazz go. By the way, anyone who is on here, feel free to sign up on our forums and kick back as well as post suggestions!

Project: N00b | The next epic RPG!

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Originally Posted by BG-57

That goes without saying. :D

Some artwork of (L-R) General Lot, Ambassador Sophia, and the Necromancer Penumbra.

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I see General Obi-Wan and Beatrix. :rolleyes2

I found this image we could work off of for that F. Omicron girl.

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Originally Posted by Magixion

Haha, thankfully we have BG-57 who has some amazing ideas as far as character names and all that jazz go. By the way, anyone who is on here, feel free to sign up on our forums and kick back as well as post suggestions!

Project: N00b | The next epic RPG!

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My pleasure; I like creating stories, I'm just lousy at programming. :p

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

I see General Obi-Wan and Beatrix. :rolleyes2

I found this image we could work off of for that F. Omicron girl.

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Well I see where you're coming from...sort of. :greenie:

Nice pic, but wait until you see my original concept sketch. :eek:

EDIT: Here's the aforementioned concept art. They are (L-R): Professor Al Avrid, Xero, Flechette Omicron in a more humanoid form, and F.O. in Homunculus form. Now that I think of it the wings would suit her humanoid form pretty well.

This is what happens when you've watched too much Bio Booster Guyver and DBZ. ;)

That is ONE weird-looking dude to be named Xero.

Yeah. I'm obsessed with wings.
Homunculus Omicron looks like a Transformers Protoform. :thumb:

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

That is ONE weird-looking dude to be named Xero.

Yeah. I'm obsessed with wings.
Homunculus Omicron looks like a Transformers Protoform. :thumb:

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Xero's wearing a mask. Here's a repost of my description of him.

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Originally Posted by BG-57

Xero was a enemy soldier badly burned in the attack by friendly fire. Although left for dead, the Professor has nursed him back to health. Heavily scarred in mind and body, he has rejected the country he once served and now loyally assists the Professor in his schemes. He wears a demonic onii mask and fights with a sword in combat. Xero has a paralyzing fear of fire and can beserk in battle.

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The first version of Omicron looked even more robotic, if you can believe it.

Omigod is the Edea's daughter? XD

Another Winged pic to scope for Omicron.

Pretty. Why don't you join and help us?

Requested but haven't been granted.

EDIT:: Just so you know, that pic up there is by a DeviArtist. I can't remember which profile though. The one above that is by another artist with his own site.

EDIT2: Thx, Madge.

Ok, you are approved Mercen-X! Sorry about that!

The symbols for (L-R) Aetheria, Concordia, and Effluvia.

A sewage drain? Seriously? I know that fits for Concord, CA or even Pittsburg, but c'mon. That's just scary.

I've got a few more pics to work off of for some of the characters.

Sebastian, Amira, the Succubus, and Cassandra (mostly for her outfit and weapon-type)

Effluvia means sewer actually. I conceived it as a rusting overcrowded metropolis.

I must say, I like the picture for Sebastian. Really fits his description and personality.

Well, I don't think the sewer thing should be public symbol, maybe something similar and less obvious.

I've got permission from black orb to use this pic as a logo if you like it.
http://forums.eyesonff.com/attachmen...est-blades.jpg

I pictured Sebastian to look like a conglomeration of Laguna and Vayne... But they are quite nice. I'm content.

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

Well, I don't think the sewer thing should be public symbol, maybe something similar and less obvious.

I've got permission from black orb to use this pic as a logo if you like it.
http://forums.eyesonff.com/attachmen...est-blades.jpg

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Oh how I love that logo. It is awesome, though we may want to go with our own that we come up with. We will have to think on that!

Well, I conceived it. BG put together the design and black orb fleshed it out in CG. It's my symbol for EverBlade.

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Originally Posted by NeoTifa

I pictured Sebastian to look like a conglomeration of Laguna and Vayne... But they are quite nice. I'm content.

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Leave FF to FF, please. But anyway, BG still needs to adjust the pics to fit his style since I don't have permission from the original artist to use those precise designs. If I could just remember where I got them... but I'm sure Beej can pull off a suitable replacement.
\/_________________________________\/
Three are prepopularized, but like the others all are just concepts to work off of.

I can stylize the grating a bit.

I'll keep those images in mind as I sketch.

Here's some artwork: (L-R) a Controller or Blood Knight of Effluvia, my original take on the vampire (who fought barefisted like a monk), and the succubus.

Blood Knight: Are the Blood Knights gonna look the same or differ slightly with unique traits?
Vampire: Initial thought "Castlevania."
Succubus: Works. Is this the concept you originally created?

I imagine they have logos on the shoulder pads. I picture Sophia has a rose for example.

Both the vampire and succubus are pictures I did years ago. In fact, only the Professor and his acolytes were drawn specifically for the game.

BTW, I think the sword logo, if used, should be in the main screen. Perhaps we could model weapons used in the game on them.

Xero's mask (replacing the lost)

Bionicle comes up with some interesting masks... the last one is actually a picture I took and warped.

I like the japanese Yoshimitsu style masks. :\

Yeah, I actually own a noh 'hannaya' mask.

My brother is getting into the act. Ceec55 was working on a FFVI fanfic centering around a rogue Imperial soldier (Vicks) and his band of misfit followers. One of them is this naga. He suggested she could be used in our game somehow.

Awesome, a naga creature could always be an interesting character for a game!

I'll try to work her in.

Meanwhile, here's line art for three characters (L-R): Demios, Sebastian, Cassandra, and Amira.

Naga... the original form of the Homunculus Succubus before she begins to take on traits similar to Flechette? Just a thought.

That may work.

The same pics in color.

EDIT: Added a character flow chart.

Nice Beej.

http://i86.servimg.com/u/f86/13/76/85/32/sebast11.jpg

We'll just pretend he just ate a sloppy plate of spagetti to make up for the eraser marks lulz.

I appreciate the flow chart there, Beej. You realize though that the lower left corner is kind of... blurry? I mean, I think I can make out what it says.

Ok that flow chart helps -A TON-. I personally was even a bit confused with all the character relationships, but that clears things up a lot.

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

I appreciate the flow chart there, Beej. You realize though that the lower left corner is kind of... blurry? I mean, I think I can make out what it says.

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Yeah, it's artifacting from using MS Paint. I call it Ghetto Photoshop.

The Elders relationship to Al Avrid is Patron. Al Alvrid's relationship with Xero and Flechette Omicron is Commands. Al Avrid was Exiled from Effluvia. Xero was Exiled from Aetheria.

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Originally Posted by Magixion

Ok that flow chart helps -A TON-. I personally was even a bit confused with all the character relationships, but that clears things up a lot.

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That's why I made it, I was getting seriously confused as well.

No no no! You're messing up the Amira intro in the flowchart. She wasn't actually in the military!!! She was merely impersonating a soldier!!!!

ps. new Sebastian.

I can't find where else you refer to Amira pretending to be a soldier. At any rate, the flow chart is a placeholder; the particulars can be changed.

I've moved several other characters around in addition to her: both Demios and Al Avrid have changed sides. I thought given her love/hate relationship with Sebastian, she should be Effluvian.

Why don't you provide more particulars on what you had in mind for her?

Oh wait she was a soldier nvm. XD

:O_O:

XD :jess: