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Ok, so I just finished watching, Loose Change. Alot of this movie makes really good sense. And please hear me out, I am in no way, trying to be disrespectful to anyone that this tragic event affected and my condolenses are with them, but I can honestly say I can believe that the government did this. IDk, what do you think?
Here's the link if you'd like to watch it. Its only an hour and twenty minutes long and enjoyable.
YouTube - 911 Loose Change (full-length)
No. I don't. And if you watch airplanes crash into buildings and think that that can't possibly be the reason for their collapse, then I question your sense of reality.
I refuse to buy into conspiracies and propaganda. I won't watch it for that reason.
I think people do not want to admit that the country is vulnerable and the government can be a mess. Conspiracy theories make the paranoid feel better in a bizarre sort of way, to think that the country did it to itself, that we're all-powerful and in control. Or something.
I blame a collabiration effort between the Swiss and French.
I blame the Smurfs.
Goblins. It was goblins what did 9/11.
Seriously though, I've yet to come across the government which has the competence to run over a dog and make it look like an accident, nevermind one which would successfully be able to get the tens of thousands of people a conspiracy on the scale of 9/11 would require to play along, keep their stories straight, and have no smoking guns be revealed. Seriously. The US government can pull all this off, keep thousands of people quiet, convince the entire planet's mainstream media that it was someone else's doing, but their genius plot is going to be unravelled by some kid?
Also if the government really did kill 3,000 people, I'm fairly sure they're not going to have a problem with doing in some punk from Colorado or whereever who unfurls their masterful scheme.
No it doesn't, I'm afraid. Every point made by that film has been thoroughly debunked by people who actually know what they're talking about... all it's got going for it is the whole "trust us, we know what we're talking about because we're not those stupid experts who you can't rely on."Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawn of Sephiroth
Much like the "moon landing conspiracy" nuts, it's possible to make an argument that seems convincing, as long as you present it right and avoid asking some crucial questions, questions that'd topple the conspiracy theory almost instantly.
There was a fairly solid rebuttal on YouTube - a couple of senior staff from Popular Mechanics on a panel with the 'Loose Change' creators. The PM guys gave reasoned, sound arguments against each point presented by the film, while the LC guys scoffed, whined and basically acted like children whenever they were confronted with actual science that went against their views.
Like the moon landing conspiracy theory or intelligent design, it's a ruse that plays on the scientific and political ignorance of the audience. It can sway people who simply don't know any better. But the ability to make an argument that's convincing to the average person is not the same as being right in that argument.
Simply put: the US government would not be capable of hatching a plot that'd destroy its own infrastructure, killing thousands of people including its own employees, without that information being either leaked, or uncovered by a foreign government. There'd be far too many people involved, all of whom would have to go along with every stage of the operation willingly and maintain their secrecy afterward.
It's worth remembering that the September 11 attacks were the result of a conspiracy - a conspiracy by a group of fanatical, suicidal terrorists.
When it comes down to it I really don't care so I don't invest much interest in it.
Loose Change was shown to be a load of :bou::bou::bou::bou:e a good while back.
Conspiracy theories are made about anything and everything. Hell, even the Flat Earth Society are still hell bent on showing the world that the earth isn't actually spherical and the hundreds of pictures taken were all edited (yes, even the 60s) by NASA (because only the Americans have ever been to space).
West-hating nutters flying bomb-laden planes into the two tallest buildings in the world is a lot more plausible than the American government murdering thousands of americans and foreign nationals for no reason other than to begin the WAR ON TERRER and blow the US Dollar into oblivion.
Conspiracy theories are stupid.
Can't agree with you there...Id say that most of them are stupid and unfounded but that can't be applied to all of them. Saying that conspiracy theories are stupid(on the account of some really silly ones that you're familiar with) is equally stupid to saying that the governments were newer involved in conspiracy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caraliz
Some people smoke too much pot and think the world works the way their mind does. I don't begrudge them for it but I still laugh.
It's all Nixon's fault. He birthed conspiracy theorists.Quote:
Originally Posted by trancekujaCan't agree with you there...Id say that most of them are stupid and unfounded but that can't be applied to all of them. Saying that conspiracy theories are stupid(on the account of some really silly ones that you're familiar with) is equally stupid to saying that the governments were newer involved in conspiracy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caraliz
People can be stupid, and some of these people make movies.
OH MY GOD IT'S A GRENADE
This is meant to be a serious discussion
Then get it moved to EoEO. :)
It's a difficult topic to have a "serious" discussion on, except for the respect that's due in addressing any tragic event. Loose Change doesn't stand up to informed scrutiny, and many of its claims are too far-fetched to be treated all that seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawn of Sephiroth
It makes perfect sense in a conspiracy theory kind of way. But the likelihood of it being truthful is minimal at best.
We don't move threads between GC and EoEO normally. So...probably not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaridovich
No. No, I do not think that it is. I doubt the public has been told the entire truth about the incident, for security reasons, but I really cannot believe the US government would do that.
I really cannot believe the US government would do that
Some part of me clings to this belief. Even with all the bad stuff we learned about Bush approving torture, I don't want to believe any country president of a modern country would do this to his own people. Mugabe and some others in Africa, King Jo in NK yes, but here ?
Other part of me is a cynic and doesn't believe there is anything a rich power mad elite wouldn't do to get / keep power.
I like well made conspiracy theories because of that. Keeps my cynic side and my credulous side in check so I don't go too far one way or the other.
This movie is not well made though. Easy to refute. I like Zeitgeist better.
@ OP: Stop. Seriously, stop. You're making serious leftists look bad.
Basically, what MILF and Big D said.
I agree one hundred and ten percent, and even if the collapse of the buildings wasn't due to the explosion of the impact of the planes -- what are the chances that something else made such an impact? Elves?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaridovich
I should add that Zeitgeist is no more credible than Loose Change. They're both easily refuted and poorly made.
Going to dinner tonight, my brother brought this up. He said that there is no proof that a plane crashed into the Pentagon. I asked him why there was a big smurfing hole in the side of the building then.
Then he began to explain why he was neither on the "conspiracy" side or the "truth" side. My mom calling him a dumbass was beautiful.
My brother's a civil engineer; he designs large structures for a living. The destruction of the World Trade Centre was an essential part of his university studies, because it illustrates how a vast building responds to catastrophic damage, and just how much damage it takes to make the structure fail. If the buildings were destroyed by Secret Government Bombs rather than the aircraft that hit them, then that'd mean that there's also a worldwide conspiracy to trick all engineering graduates into misunderstanding the laws of physics. And some small part of me just doesn't quite accept that.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdikoezI agree one hundred and ten percent, and even if the collapse of the buildings wasn't due to the explosion of the impact of the planes -- what are the chances that something else made such an impact? Elves?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaridovich
All I can say as the third party is that I trust American government as much as I trust that Britney is a great mother now.
The whole conspiracy idea is pretty BS. Big government is incapable of functioning that efficiently, and the as Big D mentioned, there are all kinds of independent studies that went in analyzing exactly what happened on that day. The entire idea of it being some massive conspiracy is simply asinine, plain and simple.
Ya, I'm an engineer too, so I can pretty much smell the BS in many a claim.
I didn't see a lot of refutable things in Zeitgeist's 9/11 theorioes mainly because they didn't detail the way it was done, they went for motives and who would gain for it. A lot of people DID gain from it.
But then again, gaining from a bad event is not proof of guilt. Even if you are cynic enough to believe some people wouldn't blink at killing 3,000 people in their own country, there are at least 2 other things necessary in a court of law to indicate guilt: means and opportunity.
After a long time searching for a reasonable description of how something like 9/11 could have been accomplished without anyone blabbing and with such "success" by a government that managed to turn everything they touched into :bou::bou::bou::bou:, I don't think it's very plausible.
And we have so many more pressing problems to worry about, that like undeadhero says above, whether 9/11 had any help from the people who benefited from it is, at this time, irrelevant.
It was organized by the Freemasons to demonstrate the Tares’ dominance over humanity. If you watch the footage closely, you’ll notice that after the planes crash into the towers, that several flying saucers shoot lasers at the base of the building to make it fall down—they are what attacked the Pentagon, too. Also, on closer inspection, one can clearly identify George W. Bush’s head as a landing pad.
People buy into this.
Jews did it.
can't have hollow surfaces as landing pads :p
I think the muppets stands behind it all.
Every 9/11 conspiracy theory in some way shape or form reminds me of the Patriots from Metal Gear Solid. :p
I'm so tempted to link ED to 'prove' this statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man
Instead I'll do this
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/6668/prince911.gif
QED, bishes.
Jesus.. It's been years, since I've seen "Loose Change". Even then, while a few of their points were valid, all of their conclusions were base-less. They used a few nuggets of truth to make some ridiculous claims. I was laughing at how retarded it was, long before I got to the bit about the government trying to steal gold or whatever.
They just like to rile people up over nothing.
That's what I was referring to :monster:Quote:
Originally Posted by PureghettoI'm so tempted to link ED to 'prove' this statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man