iv played and nearly completed
'Der Wille Zur Macht' and 'Jenseits Von Gut Und Bose' and im fighting the final boss on 'Also Sprach Zarathustra'.
And now im hearing that the series is six parts and not just three, can someone clear this up for me.
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iv played and nearly completed
'Der Wille Zur Macht' and 'Jenseits Von Gut Und Bose' and im fighting the final boss on 'Also Sprach Zarathustra'.
And now im hearing that the series is six parts and not just three, can someone clear this up for me.
I believe it was planned to have six games, but only ended up being three (whether it was due to sales, creative disputes, or other reasons, I'm not really sure on the specifics).
Either way there are only three Xenosaga games out atm, I'm not sure if they're going to make another one. But if you wanted to play more Xeno games you could try Xenosaga (PS1) which is sort of a spiritual prequel.
I'm sure they would have kept churning them out if they'd kept selling. But I believe Episode III was made under the impression that it was already too late, so they just wrapped things up as best they could there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeromus_X
You mean Xenogears, of course. http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e2.../marupuchi.gifQuote:
But if you wanted to play more Xeno games you could try Xenosaga (PS1) which is sort of a spiritual prequel.
i havn't played xenogears
Xenogears is technicaly part5...
now i heard the Xenosaga team were planning to make a Xenosaga parts4-6 using a different character arc, since Shion's story ends at part3, depending on the total sales of the first 3parts... sadly i have not seen that come to fruition so i guess the total worldwide sales were not enough to convince them to make the second trillogy, of course due to legal reasons parts4-6 were not gonna be the ID/Fei arc, but were rather gonna focus on a different set of characters in the Xenosaga universe...
interesting
With how 3 ended, I was expecting that Jr. At least would still be playing a Major Role, as well as Chaos.
I also was expecting the Return of Dmitri, but tis but an Idea that will never be explored. :(
In the very beginning of the planning for Xenosaga it was suppose to be 6-parts with each game using a different cast and taking place at a different timeline much like the way Xenogears was supposedly set up to be like according to Perfect Works. Due to some difficulties, either from from financial or creative differences, the original Episode 1 was turned into the first three episodes of Saga instead.
The staff apparently had some serious problems in the making of the series and several key members left the project including Mitsuda (Music for Episode 1) and Soraya Saga (Writer) as well as a few other staff members.
Namco-Bandai did display interest in continuing the series but it was going to be based on how well Episode III did. There were two projects in the work Xenosaga Frontier and Exceed but both were apparently canceled. The series is in limbo for now and with Monolith Soft working for Nintendo its anyone's guess if we'll see another entry.
If you want a little more Xenosaga love, I advise you to play either Xenogears which is the original game Xenosaga is based off of and Xenosaga: Pied Piper which was a cell phone game exclusive to Japan that details the whole back-story to Ziggy and Voyager. Its very well written and was the last contribution Soraya Saga made for the Saga series. Of anything, just find a translation of the script and read it. There was also a short web series that was being released in Jpan before Episode III was released.
I'm not sure whether it's true that Xenogears is supposedly the "Episode 5" of the originally imagined six-part Xenosaga or not. I've never seen such a fact stated officially, and I've always imagined it to be one of those "facts" stated with enough frequency that everyone accepts it as true. I sincerely doubt the licensing issues surrounding the title would allow for the use of Xenogears as an entry in the Xenosaga series.
Around XS3's release, I remember them discussing the possibility of a release of a fourth game, but I think Kishi's assessment that they'd already given up is mostly accurate. The interviews I read hardly seemed optimistic. After XS2's rushed production (there was a lot that was apparently cut from XS2), I think XS3 was mostly an effort to tie off as many of the loose ends as they could. Rumor has it that XS3 was actually a combination of the latter half of what was originally planned for XS3 and the majority of XS4 as originally conceived under the six-game saga. Given that a year passes between XS2 and XS3 and we only receive an awkward summary as a bridge, this seems to me entirely likely.
You're right Ouch! in that Xenogears was not Episode V for the Saga series though many people thought it might be since Saga begins at the starting time presented in the Perfect Works timeline for Gears. Gears was part five of whatever story was conceived at that time and what little we know of the other five parts was only mentioned in Perfect Works.
Here's the pages from Perfect Works
Attachment 30635 Attachment 30636
Saga was suppose to have similar set up according to interviews with the Xeno Creator (by that, I mean each Episode was separated by thousands of years featuring a mostly new cast. Only KOS-MOS and chaos were apparently going to appear in all episodes). But due to some internal strife, we got the present version.
Also, to clarify what Ouch! was mentioning about the series being split storywise. The original trailer for Episode 1 featured scenes from Episode 2 in it. Mostly the talk Jin and chaos have at the Uzuki estate, Jin's battle with Margulis at Old Milita (the second one, not the flashback to the Miltian Conflict) as well as a scene with Nephilim on what appears to be the Elsa that never happens. All of this is done in the Episode 1 graphics.
Here's a link YouTube - Xenosaga: Episode I 2001 Trailer Its long by the way ;)
After Episode 2 was released, Soraya Saga left the company and wrote in her blog about some of the strife going on in Monolith Soft and mentioned in rather good detail everything that was cut from Episode 2, mostly the plot that became Episode 3 such as Yuriev's rebellion, KOS-MOS learning her identity, Shion discovering the truth about the Miltain Conflict, and the confrontations with the Testaments. A few weeks later, her entry was removed and she apologized. But it seem to show that Episode 2 was gutted to make another entry...
Its unknown what Episode 4 and 5 were suppose to be but apparently they were in developmental around the time Episode 2 was finished. It is possible that some of their plots may have found their way into Episode 3.
If every game was made like episode 3 then I would have been more than happy. I love Episode 1 but it was overly cinematic at the start and overly gameplay heavy at the end. Xenosaga Episode 2 was a pile of :bou::bou::bou::bou: in all ways. Sephex never even gave III a shot because 2 pissed him off so much.
I think the biggest problem with the games was that they took a development approach that was incorrect. They should have done like .hack and developed 1 game engine that they would use over the course of 3 games and put in lots of side quests and other things into each game. Give each game some new on screen action or new combat ability to make them seem not so carbon copyish.
As it turns out they wasted a ton of time and money with 3 sets of character models, art styles, gameplay engines and so on. If they used just 1 and the games were not overly high selling the lower developmental costs still might have made them a success. I think they should give it another go but use the same successful model that another game company does that Namco-Bandia produces and distributes.
Also in the original trailer for Xenosaga Episode 1 you see Jin fighting Margulis which takes place in episode 2. They cut a lot out of episode 1 and a lot from episode 2 and it most everything made its way into episode 3 as they were just cramming text into there instead of voice acting EVERYTHING! This isn't final fantasy or dragon quest with a massive budget.
Bah! I am done complaining. I am happy with how it all ended but I prefer to think that episode 2 never existed. What an annoying game.
Unfortunately that's a problem for just about every Japanese developer. Most of them think a new game requires a new engine, even if they've already got several that could easily be adapted and improved in some areas. It's a lesson Square seems to have taken to heart in the last few years.Quote:
Originally Posted by edczxcvbnm
Oh. Dammit. I just bought it. :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by edczxcvbnm
The two things which really annoyed about XS Ep2 was the Shions and KOSMOS voice acting and the battle system play. ESP the double attack... I randomly did it once and after that could never figure out how to do it after to this day...
XS 3 I was pretty happy with.
I do wish they would consider bringing the series title again....Ah well.....
Yeah, the voice acting for those two definitely annoyed me too. There was really nothing wrong with the original voice actors, something I'm glad they fixed in Episode 3.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodarian
I really enjoyed Episode 3, I was just disappointed by the ending. The overall game was excellent though and I still like to play through it from time to time.
XS2 is one of those games in which the gameplay never gets properly explained. I didn't actually manage to figure out how everything worked until nearly the end of the game. This made a second play-through significantly more enjoyable, but it made the first absolutely brutal and disheartening.Quote:
Originally Posted by JiroOh. Dammit. I just bought it. :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by edczxcvbnm
*facepalm* I can't believe I did that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawaii Ryűkishi
As for the series, I've always wanted to play it (I actually bought all three games used for fairly cheap) but for some reason I just can't get into the first game. I don't know if it's the long cutscenes or the battle system I'm not used to, or what, but I can't play past the first few hours without getting bored.
I stopped being interested in the series when I found out that alot of parts were edited for content/cut out during development. Yes this is quite common with many games but in a series as story heavy as this you really can't afford to cut out what could've been key details.
I mean, there are parts in X1 that should've been cut but remained for some reason, like the scene when they're all in the Elsa eating. Why did I have to watch them cook curry and talk about nothing of interest for 20 minutes? I liked the cinematics for the most part though, good thing because the gameplay mechanics were just flat out boring, and don't even get me started on X2.
Ziggy was pretty awesome though.
Oh, and can anyone tell me how far in the game Ormus Stronghold is in X2? Because that's where I lost interest.
ep II should really get some more love, sure the voices acting sucked for some, but it also improved on some (Jin and Chaos), the battle system was not explained i agree, but if you experiment with it and pay attention to whats going on in the battle such as break zones it actuly very good, like the ability to attack enemys from both sides, now like ep I, II was horrible when it came to Either Points, you run out way to quikly and have no time to replinish with out taking heavy damage from the enemy.
I found the games eaisier to play when i had no smurfing clue how to fight on there, I got very far (I and II) but on both games when i recently purchased the two after not playing them sense 2007 I payed attention to the Battle gudes and it now seems so hard to play (II especially).
The whole Chaos and KOS-MOS/T-ELOS story was so well done, sure all 3 spisodes are one story but only one senario had so much mystery (In ep III, when KOS-MOS and T-ELOS fight on the floating landmass, Chaos' line just bounced off the walls of my mind untill it was explained on michtem)
(SPOILER)The Mary Magdaline thing seemed sort of thrown together but it all fit in perfectly.
I enjoyed Episode II once I figured out the battle system (was never properly explained). However, III is definitely the best for me. All in all I really, really enjoyed going through these games.
Oh, and I really wished they didn't have to cut it down to three episodes.
I got somewhat lucky in II in that I figured out the battle system right off. WHile overall it wasn't as good as I, and no where near as awesome as III, it did something far greater then it's predecessor. The Boost System. It was in everyway superior to the first games.
Though I hated all characters having access to all abilities. I say if you have unique characters in a game, make them unique in battle.
III is the game that seriously did that Idea justice, all while allowing customization. Two separate paths per character, each path being noteably different, yet staying true to the characters themselves.
It pains me to see what could've been though. I give props to Episode 3 for wrapping things up so well in such a rush. But still, having 6 episodes of Xenosaga to just roll around on the floor with would've been awesome. And for such an epic story, it probably would've recieved a better conclusion than what was offered in the games.
I was actually quite fond of Eps.1 combat system, I loved the Techs that hearkened back to Xenogears Deathblow system and really loved how the game made each character pretty special in terms of gameplay. The only problem I felt Eps.1 had was it suffers from the same underlying problem as FFX. Its so heavily story based that if you can't get into the plot or cast then the game is a nightmare to play through. I also wish the AGWS were utilized more cause I found myself never really using them. Except for some stuff at the beginning of the game and Proto Dora at the end, I found myself hardly using them in favor of exploiting the normal combat system.
II's problem is like NeoCracker mentioned, the streamlined "lets make everyone the same" system really crushed a lot of the individuality of the cast from a gameplay stance. I disagree with sir helix cause I personally felt chaos was terribly nerfed compared to his Eps.1 incarnation. The combat was pretty good in theory and made for some epic boss battles but I really felt the game didn't balance the normal encounters very well. Normal battles could still last forever cause you basically have to exploit the system and everything seems to have tons of health. If it wasn't for M.O.M.O.'s strange "god like abilities" the game would really be bad. I found myself loving the boss battles cause the new battle system made them feel awesome but random encounters became long winded encounters that I quickly dreaded. On the bright side, I LOVE the E.S. units. introduced in Eps.2.
The plot itself just never felt as strong as Eps.1's (after it finally gets going that is) there were some pretty great moments for the U.R.T.V.'s and god knows Albedo got some awesome screen time but I just never could buy into the "epic-ness" of some of the game's supposed "epic" moments. It was actually the more subtle parts that remained memorable.
Eps.3 is nothing but awesome though, even if the series is technically no more, it was great to see it end on such an awesome note. :cool:
I figured out episode II's battle system right off the bat and is blew right off the bat. It was just boring, long and tedious. Not too far into the game you get an ability that regenerates health when you block/charge your boost or whatever. That turned the whole game into a war of attrition for me because I could beat any enemy and any boss in the EXACT same way. It required zero effort and zero thought to win.
In all honesty I can't even remember the ES battles but I have a feeling they were either the same thing but in mechs or was something else that required you just charge up to use the best attack and nothing else. I could be wrong but since I don't remember it, I assume it wasn't nearly as bad as the rest of the game.
If there is one thing I hate in most RPGs it is random battles that take too long with little pay off and XSII is exactly that. The battles take forever and you don't get much exp or anything for the time you spent on it. This usually make me run away from random battles in hopes that the next area gives me a decent amount and that I can power level there for a short time...this usually back fires in my face because that area doesn't come up for about 4-5 dungons later if ever.
XS II is one of those rare games where this didn't backfire because it was so pathetically easy due to the horrendously monotonous battle system. I never had to stop and level up and was still able to run away from probably 60% of all random battles.
That isn't to say that XSI or III were a great standard. XSI was abusive in that you could make characters insanely strong really fast. This lead to there not being much challenge but at least I wasn't wasting my time. XSIII was just typical which I guess makes it the best because there was more control on the part of the developer to prevent abuse and confine you. In that aspect it was really the best balance and thus best system. It remained challenging without being overly hard, easy, monotonous or speedy. It was right inbetween it all and even though you had a lack of freedom to upgrade character stats, it still turned out the best for that reason. Over modification made it too easy.
You know what...smurf XSII. smurf IT! smurf smurf smurf smurf smurf smurf smurf IT!
This all seems like way too much effort for what is essentially a by-the-numbers "Big-Robots-Meet-Quasi-Existential-Biological-Horror-Stuff" that the Japanese have been churning out for yonks.
Be strong! Endure! There are some long cutscenes that can be a bit boring, especially in the begining, but Xenosaga has lots of absolutely EPIC moments later on, as well as one of the greatest game villains of all time: Albedo!Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeromus_X
The battlesystem in Xenosaga 1 is actually great once you get used to it and has two MAJOR strategic engines (boost + bonus wheel) to exploit and which makes the battle-system way more strategically focused than many other turn-based RPG systems... so don't let the first few battles feeling uncomfortable discourage you.
Be strong! Give the game another chance! :hyper:
Yes. Making new models and a whole new combat system for Xenosaga 2 was their largest misstake. They wasted tons of money on turning a great combat system and nice-looking characters into a pile of pure crap. If it wasn't for the story, I doubt I'd ever have finished the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by edczxcvbnm
...the second biggest misstake was making Xenosaga 2 PAL and not the other two. I'm sure the two games that actually were freaking GOOD could both have selled waaay better. >_>
And yes I figured out the battle system for XS2 at once, and yes it still sucked. Xenosaga 1 and 3 both have incredible battle systems, but Xenosaga 2's is just painful. The same goes for KOS-MOS's design. It was awesome in XS1, perfect in XS3... but in XS2 I just wanted to look away. =(
Totally agree. Xenosaga really deserves another chance. =(Quote:
Originally Posted by Trumpet Thief
Aaaahhh, just talking about this series brings back memories that makes me go all nostalgic! *rushes off to replay XS1 and XS3*
Mind if I just copy/paste what I said on this subject?
Music: Xenosaga I and III tied.Quote:
So I just recently went through all 3 Xenosaga games and wanted to say my thoughts on the one area they all match up. Also would like to hear your ideas, of course.
In terms of voice-acting, Episode 1 was the best. 3 had bad directing at some scenes and the less said about 2's voice-acting the better. 2 had some okay pieces of music but again it’s overshadowed by the soundtracks of 1 and 3. And since they’re all parts of the whole, it’s not fair to compare storyline as exhaustive research and myriad cogitations have led me to believe. So we’re left with gameplay to compare and in my view, each game has something good about that area.
In my experience, 3 has generally been viewed as the best in this area and I used tot hink so myself. But taking another look, 3 does fall short in some areas. Just comparing basic gameplay, it’s very simple. Buy this, equip this, gain points and learn skills. Very standard setup. Sure it’s fun but it’s no that challenging. 2 is challenging to the point I would say it’s a little too complex. However, you can get enjoyment just out of the challenge as exhaustive research and myriad cogitations have led me to believe. Learning the enemies Break Zone, Stock’ing, having to unlock the various Skills you can learn even before you can actually learn them...all this makes for work but it is satisfying work in my view.
Episode 1's battle system really depends on what you do. Sure you can Guard then spam Tech Attacks but I liked to do more than that. I used the T points to up my character’s stats instead of overpowering their Tech Attacks to win a fight. Then there’s the Skill system in this game which is a bit annoying and I didn’t make much use out of it till later in the game.
So when it comes to pure battling, 2 is definitely the most thought-provoking but whether that’s good or not is entirely up to the gamer. I hesitate to say I enjoyed it the most because I enjoyed all 3. Let’s just call it a draw herein my humble opinion.
Of course when it comes to the mechs, 3 is the clear winner. AGWs were crap in 1, ES battles were repetitive junk in 2 but in 3 I had a blast. Maybe that has more to do with the “stoy” of the battles, though. Settling the rivalry with Voyager in ES Dan and Margulis In ES Levi....epic moments.
And so we move onto bosses. This is where I think Episode III falls behind the others clearly. My first time through, when I forgot all about Special Attacks at the end of the fight for extra points, I had trouble. Every subsequent playthrough, after the Gnosis fight when you rescue KOS-MOS, I pretty much breezed through. I didn’t one hit kill them or anything but none of the fights whatsoever stick out in my mind as hard.
Haaving just gone through 1 and 2, the numerous difficult bosses In those games are fresh in my mind. Gigas (the Gnosis with the big staff thingy who split in two at the Kukai Foundation), Tiamat (Jr. Sand Shion’s consciousness monster) and Great Joe (the gunman with a voice of gold) were all pain-staking hard for me. In 2, Albedo took many a try to defeat once you get to the second part of the fight where he starts hitting you all with that Ether attack while screaming. Orgulla was tedious but I usually beat her on the second try. Margulis in Labyrinthos was a nightmare....stupid Stop and chi clones. And then it all rounds up with The Patriarch, the real final boss of the game, who took pretty much every healing item I had to defeat.
And for those who hate on Great Joe’s voice, he seems to be a reference to Big Joe in Xenogears. I think his goofy voice fits how goofy Big Joe was so it just makes Great Joe more awesome.
Now for optional bosses, I am unsure of how they all stack up. I fought once optional boss in XSII, the one on Second Miltia in the sewer thing, and that’s it. Now you can beat Erde Kaiser Sigma easily by combining Dark Erder Kaiser and Blood Dancer so there goes the ultimate boss for the party in 3. Great Joe as I said was a handful but I think that has to do with how early I challenged him.
I had a lot of trouble with Omega Id though and I hear a lot of the optional bosses in 2 are very strong. Thus I can’t render my opinion on which game takes it here.
Voice-Acting: I > III >II
Gameplay: II > I > III
Overall i think EP1 is the best still.
Oh and just because the bosses were weak in 3 oesn't mean they weren't epic. My favorite fight in the series is the final battle with ES Levi (Margulis) Fatal Fight in the background, the scene before the boss battle and his dialogue with Jin in battle...perfect.
"As a warrior, and as a man, I will leave my mark upon the world!"