Play for the story and characters, or is the game the thing?

I was just thinking about what people define as "hardcore" gaming: stats maxing, getting ultimate weapons, breeding the ultimate chocobo, beating all the optional bosses in monster arenas and the like, and winning/dominating various minigames. Then there's a whole new level of hardcore, the No Sphere Grid people, the Character X Only (usually a mage) people, the "with both hands tied behind my back" handicap people.

While I occasionally have an OCD fit and simply must collect every mark, or all the celestial weapons, or play the extra missions in Dirge, I've only ever had the Completist Urge on FFX, because I've played the game so thoroughly that's all that's left to do. And I like the game.

What really draws me to the Final Fantasy games are the stories and characters. I love the little secrets that unfold. The personal moments, the friction, the angst, the humor. I love the games that seem to have developed a complex world, have politics and religions and a story-plausible magic system. Games where the summons are not game-mechanics, but part of the story. Quirky scenes like Cloud in Wall Town, or Laguna the Moron. Friendships like Lulu and Yuna, Ward and Kiros. Great secondary and minor characters like the Turks in FFVII, the extra summoners and Crusaders and maesters in FFX.

If I like the story so much, why don't I just watch movies?

Because movies are linear. Gameplay, while somewhat linear, is more a process of exploration, of discovery, of finding out, of experiencing these characters and their world. In a word, roleplay, although having started on D&D when it first came out, "roleplay" is still, to me, creating and playing your own characters instead of someone else's.

Anyway. I was just curious how many people play and love Final Fantasy games for the gameplay challenges -- monster slaying, accumulating goodies and prizes, unlockables and rare items and insanely hard bosses -- and how many are really playing primarily for the fantasy, the adventure of the imagination?

Story story story CHARACTERS yes!

When I was young video games were an escape for me (as were many other things). For me, it was like being involved in an epic, interactive book, almost like a digital choose-your-own-adventure. I always lost myself in the characters and their trials, as well as the world they were in. When I was young I would make up conversations between characters when travelling on the world map or through dungeons, adding to the story in my own way.

But if I'm into a game enough I do like to get every single little thing... but less for obsession and more to prolong my experience and to stay in their world as long as possible.

>>> I play Final Fantasy because I know Im playing a game that has a decent story, great graphics, great music, etc.
So if I have to waste my precious time playing a videogame it has to be a FF..

Rocking systems and juggling numbers have little appeal compared to revelling in characterization and exploring the geography, culture, and miscellaneous incidents which grant a world atmosphere and verisimilitude. This is the main reason I wish all RPGs featured New Game +: after I've beaten a game once the honest way, I wish I could experience my favorite aspects of it thereafter without having to worry about battles at all.

It's both for me. A great story isn't worth going through when bogged down by bad game mechanics.

Though if the game mechanics are good, I can always just play the game and ignore a bad story. Not really forced to subjagate myself to that, though it doesn't lend much replay value or enjoyment if I don't have a good story to play through.

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Originally Posted by NeoCracker

It's both for me. A great story isn't worth going through when bogged down by bad game mechanics.

Though if the game mechanics are good, I can always just play the game and ignore a bad story. Not really forced to subjagate myself to that, though it doesn't lend much replay value or enjoyment if I don't have a good story to play through.

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That is where I am at.

One of the things I find that makes video game stories more interesting than movie stories is the length. I like my stories to be big, the more epic the better. And with movies being only 90 minutes long and RPGs 40+ hours, movies have a hand tied behind their back before the comparison even begins.

The story and characters are the biggest draws for me for RPGs in general. Two exceptions I can think of off-hand are FFT and FFXII, both of which have engaging or innovative gameplay instead (though I probably won't play FFXII again). However, my favorite RPGs generally have my favorite stories and characters (Suikoden II and Lunar SSSC being prime examples).

I'm not remotely interested in "hardcore gaming" . . . I NEVER give a fig for maxing stats and such UNLESS I've already finished the game and am madly in love with it. I've only "hardcore gamed" various Zelda titles and FFIV and a couple FF:CC games.

For me, it's ALL about the story and how the gameplay integrates into it.

I play for both. Yet much like NeoCracker and VeloZer0 I can forgive one for being poor if the other is exceptional. I play firstly for plot and then my next playthroughs are for gameplay and learning everything. I usually get a better understanding of things the second or third time around cause I'm no longer rushing to see what happens next. I like well written plots or at least ones that can sorta hide its bad writing and characters. I can be forgiving if I feel the themes are strong or one part of it really stands out to me.

I generally like to learn everything about a game from its story to its game mechanics so I do sometimes fall into hardcore territory though I'm not terribly fond of time sinks though and I generally prefer having strategy over statistical advantage. I love exploration but I also prefer to have something to explore as opposed to grabbing what amounts to a rare item hidden over yonder. I just love taking in the different worlds and themes.

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Originally Posted by Bastian

I'm not remotely interested in "hardcore gaming" . . . I NEVER give a fig for maxing stats and such UNLESS I've already finished the game and am madly in love with it.

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Yeah! Yeah!

I guess after reading everyone's responses, I'm finally coming to understand why these are called RPGs. As an old RPer who started with D&D in '78, I was put off by the term, thinking, "but wait -- we're not creating characters and playing through a story that we build in concert with the GM, so how can this be RP?"

But it's still playing a role as in experiencing a story interactively.

Good point as another mentioned that there's a lot more hours available in a game for story development, so there's much more depth than movies.

To the bloke who wasn't planning on playing FFXII again -- the characters and world really did NOT grab me on the first playthrough! However, after reading some good fanfic showing how others saw Balthier, Basch, Fran et alia, and getting a copy for my 60-year-old parents to play, I found the story and charcters a lot more engrossing on the second playthrough. But I know what you mean.

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Originally Posted by auronlu;2722146y

I guess after reading everyone's responses, I'm finally coming to understand why these are called RPGs. As an old RPer who started with D&D in '78, I was put off by the term, thinking, "but wait -- we're not creating characters and playing through a story that we build in concert with the GM, so how can this be RP?"

But it's still playing a role as in experiencing a story interactively.

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Thats far from exclusive to the RPG genre though. I mean you have puzzle/mystery games like Myst, action games like Infamous and Prototype, hell, even racing games like Diddy Kong Quest. Different styles of games simply have different ways of telling a story due to the restraints of the style.

I actually find it very difficult to define what an RPG is to be honest. But thats a discussion for another time. :p

I play them for the game being fun. This means I have played through FF1 dozens of times, disregarding its paper thin plot and crap ending. I've played through FF3 more than once, and I like FF8 so much gameplay-wise that I'm usually not bothered with the insane amount of dialogue through which one must trudge. To me it's all about it having a fun battle and menu system to play around with. Games that ended up not appealing to me included FF12, which just got monotnous (Gambits? Please, their popularity is just a testament to how lazy gamers are getting. It's bad enough that when I have to go into the Games Development classroom the smell is unbearable.) and, initially, FF6 (though I've since gotten over it) for feeling like an endless supply of dungeon crawlers during the latter stages of the game.

As for "hardcore" playing? Hardcore's more of a music thing to me these days :/ Generally I like to play through a game a couple of times, then familiarise myself with it enough that the next time I can run through it I can defeat bosses in as few turns as possible by knowing exactly how they'll fight and what's gonna be available to me. That's ultimately what I play them for; the ability to feel smart overpowered and break the system somewhat. Obviously this is easiest in FF8 where you just exploit Limit Breaks :P This sometimes does mean a little bit of grinding, but usually I end up fetching every ridiculously overpowered means of defeating stuff as a matter of course by just learning the game, with minimal sidetracking time invested.

Most of the time it's for the gameplay. The only one I liked playing for the story, SORRY TO BE SO DAMN MAINSTREAM, is ff7 =) The other ones I hated the stories, which is probably why I never got through any of them except XII because it was action-y.

It has to be mostly the story, i think the story also adds to the re-play value too, as to be fair i wouldn't re-start XII as the story sucks, but i still spent 90+ hours on the game, where as ive re-played VII,VIII, IX and X numerous times, as they have good story lines.

Gameplay definitely comes first for me, it doesn't matter how good the story is, if the game isn't fun to play than I'm dropping it. I can play games that have very little to no story or even a bad story and still like it so long as the gameplay is fun. Now I can safely say that I love and get very hooked in to games that have both good gameplay, and thats one of the reasons I've been such a final fantasy fan for so long, I personally think they do well in both departments.

They should carry each other. Gameplay without story means I probably won't remember it as magic and uhmayzing and I might not want to come back to it after a couple of play sessions. Story without good gameplay is just a plain bad game. SO gameplay is definitely more imoportant but they both count for a lot.

Some of the early final fantasies I stuck with purely because I did enjoy the story. (I'M LOOKING AT YOU, JOB CLASSES...)

I've almost always played the Final Fantasy series for the stories! I mean some of the best fictional characters ever conceived. The reason why I was never able to perceiver with FFI-III is because they're not quite as story driven as the rest of the series, well at least in my opinion. They're always talk of a next gen remake of FFVII but to be honest I'd much rather see FFIV-VI brought to life in HD just as long as their stories aren't changed!

The only game in the series I can say hooked me in in the game play department was FFXII. FFXII was the only one of the games where I didn't find level grinding mind numbingly boring. I've clocked up almost 400 hours of game play on FFXII. I didn't even use the gambit system that much apart from for basic healing. I just loved how hands on you could get with the real time battles if you really wanted too.

With Final Fantasy, you got the best of both worlds, so why would you want to choose?

On a first playthrough I'll probably be focusing on the story and overall experience, as I learn the gameplay system as I go. On subsequent playthroughs, it's definitely more about the gameplay as I try to maximize my strategy and find the hidden stuff that'll make my party even better.

However, sometimes you even get more out of the story on subsequent playthroughs. FFXII offered so much depth and material to cover in the gameplay, but I learned to appreciate the story more and more as I played.

I think the gameplay and story aspects should complement each other in some way. I do appreciate what SE tries to do with each game, so I generally try to judge each on its own merits and, in my opinion, its success in providing an enthralling experience on both sides.

However, my personal taste shifts more towards the gameplay experience. I appreciate how X tried to tell a relatively focused story and how the gameplay reflected that with its linearity and constant drive towards the finish line, but nevertheless I found myself frustrated at not being able to explore, grind and experiment to my heart's content. Outside of my frustration, though, I find X has one of the better presented stories of the series (and maybe the genre).

On the flipside, XII gave us exploration and grinding in spades, and as a result I couldn't put the smurfing thing down. The plot itself probably suffered because of the enormity of the gameworld, but, frankly, I don't care. I barely remember any of the characters and XII is still one of my two or three favourites in the series.

Long story short: Gameplay.

(Going off-topic, this probably explains why I'm having so much trouble getting through DQ5 for the DS. I love the way the story is presented, but the gameplay is so cumbersome and, well, bland. And this coming from someone who thinks Phantasy Star for the SMS is one of the greatest JRPGs ever conceived)

If the gameplay was terrible, it'd have to be a really awesome story for me to keep going with it. However, I'm usually lucky with the games I buy and don't tend to find myself with that many games I haven't enjoyed. The story and characters are a big draw to it as far as I'm concerned. I hope the battle system, music and graphics will be good and usually they are, but the storyline is a big draw for me. I really like the idea of, as TheAbominatrix said, getting involved in an adventure book where I get to actually play a role in the story itself.

I mean, it's no coincidence that two of my favourite RPGs are Shadow Hearts and its first sequel and that I've a really big interest in history and alternative history as a genre. The gameplay of the original isn't worldbeating by any stretch, but it's one of my favourite games purely because of how good the storyline was and how it appealed to me. People say that a lot of computer gaming can be escapism, though that's rarely the case with me. I don't want to necessarily get away from the real world, I just like to be intrigued by a fictional one.

Final Fantasy games are like The Mummy films. Except the third one. That ones :bou::bou::bou::bou:. But they're like the first two.

What does that mean? I'll tell you. Nobody owns The Mummy on DVD. Nobody thinks "hey, I really fancy watching The Mummy, Imma go rent it yo!". But when it's on ITV2 (as it always is), you always watch it. And you enjoy it. And at the end you think "That was great", but still don't buy the DVD.

......I've forgotten where I was going with that. Basically, story and characters make a game great, but nobody would pay attention if the gameplay was truly horrific.