Ch-ch-changessss

When I was in Starbucks, there was group of probably early 20 something Europeans in front of me! 5 Swedes and this really pretty German girl. Their english was amazing. They all had accents, but more of a really pretty flavor to their speech, rather than something hindering their English.

It makes me sad to live in a country where learning another language isn't encouraged. I want to learn German. If I controlled the US education system, I'd make foreign language equally as important as English, math, science, history, etc. And give more choices at that. My school only let us take Spanish or French.

What would you change about your country's educational system if you could?

I'd put more emphasis on private tutoring/teaching and cater to the students interests rather than teaching them the bare basics and sending them off to fail in college.

I'm pretty strongly against large classroom teaching styles because I don't think they work very well.

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Originally Posted by Rye

I'd make foreign language equally as important as English, math, science, history, etc.

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So you mean not important at all! :cool:

I'd give teachers some actual smurfing leeway to teach what is important, not what is necessary to pass some state approved test.

I think the budget needs a major overhaul. So many school districts are bankrupt, and it's frightening what we as a nation spend our money on instead.

EDIT: Interesting, Rye. As a student of a few languages, I don't know that I'd put that much emphasis on foreign language, unless it was Spanish or (to a lesser degree) Chinese.

It's one of those life skills that I think schools should teach. Useful. Important.

I dunno, I'm a little weird, but after taking sociology and talking to my professor a lot, I think schools should teach more things involved with LIVING, because kids are surprisingly hopeless and raised by hopeless parents. So many people can't cook, sew, caring for children, mechanic skills, etc. And they'll never learn unless a school steps in. Sad, but true. So many parents are useless. It's horrific that schools don't require classes like that.

But this is coming from someone who would replace gym and excess study halls (for example, my brother has had like, 5 study halls his entire High School education, and is still getting an advanced HS diploma which means he took more classes than necessary for a normal degree. So kids getting the minimal diploma probably had many more study halls. It's kind of bizarre.) with these classes, so most people would be inclined to disagree with me.

The concept that the longer a paper is, the better it is! Teachers might say, "Quality over Quantity," but they also/usually say, "Okay, just rewrite everything you've already written with different words and make them fit somehow, so you'll have at least ten pages." I go to school with people who write up to twenty pages of poo - and can't spell or write proper grammar - but receive good grades for it. Sadly, some of them don't read very well either.

I remember - in middle school - having assignments that called for expanding one statement into one or two whole paragraphs using adjectives and unnecessary details. Stupid!

I think it would be cool for kids to be taught languages from primary school to graduation! Sewing is just a hobby, though. :hellopanties2:

I think minor sewing is important to learn, small life skills! I learned that in middle school, which was good. But I think it should be taught in High School in a Life 101 class, along with business skills and money management and stuff. Veeeery important.

Ever since 7th grade we could only ever pick between French and German, both not very useful languages unless you want to live in France or Germany. I'd prefer to learn Spanish myself, such a versatile language. :) spoken across the globe. I'm very much fascinated with English myself though, but if I ever am going to learn another language it should probably be Spanish. Or maybe Italian, but that's only because it sounds friggen awesome :D

Wow, I thought you took in English in school as well! I guess you learned all on your own, then. =O Wow.

Also, I'd make English as a subject allow more independent and self-choice in terms of reading.

This thread's not about David Bowie, I'm disappointed.

Replying to this thread properly could cost me my sanity. I am out.

http://www.morethings.com/music/davi...-bowie-138.jpg

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Originally Posted by Jowy

This thread's not about David Bowie, I'm disappointed.

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Need an extra 'ch' for that!

Anyway. I would reduce the amount of testing required massively. It's a disaster and students are educated to do exams, not to actually be informed.

Place much more emphasis on teaching people how to think than teaching them any specific facts.

Voucher system.

No gym. But encourage more clubs of more kinds and fund them properly. (This may just be a British thing, or a schools I went to thing, though.)

Hot teachers must wear short skirts and low cut tops. :colbert: (This includes hot male teachers.)

Oh and stop fannying about making a big deal because someone sends a text message or whatever. Just generally chill.

The single most important thing though would be mandatary, comprehensive sex education beginning in some form as soon as children enter school. Just the facts.

Why would you want to learn German? It's a dead lang- *gets shot and mangled by angry german pplz*

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Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF

Oh and stop fannying about making a big deal because someone sends a text message or whatever. Just generally chill.

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And when students want to go to a restroom! Why do they have to ask permission, carry a sign/teacher note, and/or be scolded for needing to pee?!

In one of the other chorus classes that I wasn't in, a student asked to go to the bathroom, didn't get permission, so he peed in front of everyone in the auditorium.

I would make English a non-compulsory in senior years, not because I didnt like it (I took the highest english courses there were in Highschool) but some of the people in my normal english class clearly didnt want to be there and were just disrupting to the class. Also about phones, I get the rule against using them in class but we werent allowed to use them in school (people still did) which I felt was abit much.

Oh yea and we were required to take a foreign language for the first two years, we had a choice of French and Italian. The french class was taught by an Irish guy, hilarious accent inssued.

At my high school we WERE required to take two years of a foreign language and our options were: Spanish, French, German and Japanese. I chose German because it seemed the most interesting to me. My appologise to Germans out there, but it was an utter waste of time. I never ever use it. I should have taken Spanish like everyone else.

Of course, now I wish I'd taken Japanese! Haha!

As for what I'd change . . . ugh, so many things. I don't have the energy right now to even start.

America does encourage learning another language. Why do you think there's so many American schools that require people to take a language class? Where I'm from, elementary school students have to take Spanish and it goes from there all the way to middle school until they can decide what language they wanna take -- they have four choices which are Spanish, French, German and Italian. In a town next to us, they teach Latin and Japanese in addition to those choices.

(also stupid edit button)

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Originally Posted by Shiny

America does encourage learning another language. Why do you think there's so many American schools that require people to take a language class? Where I'm from, elementary school students have to take Spanish and it goes from there all the way to middle school until they can decide what language they wanna take -- they have four choices which are Spanish, French, German and Italian. In a town next to us, they teach Latin and Japanese in addition to those choices.

(also stupid edit button)

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So how come barely any Americans* can speak a foreign language and so many Europeans can?

* To be fair that's the whole Anglosphere, and the reason is because English is Earth's dominant language and we don't have to learn anything else to get by so why bother, but yeah, point stands.

To everyone I knew in my school, foreign language in our school systems is more of a "Just get it over with so you look better to colleges/get your credits" and then promptly forgetting it, as opposed to actually learning to retain and speak another language. I don't know one person who still speaks another language (learned in school, that is) from my town.

I would say most of the languages taught in the American school system are difficult to learn. Not to say English isn't a hard language to learn -- it definitely is, but I think Americans strive more in closely related languages like Spanish where there's a lot of cognates. I know plenty of Americans who speak fluent Spanish and/or French. I also think there's several factors in how people are able to learn languages and I find that many of those people have family members who were teaching it to them at a young age. But, most American schools make learning other languages mandatory. It isn't the school system telling people not to learn other languages and learn about other cultures, it's the fact that many people realize they don't have to so many of them don't bother after High School. So all in all, them not mastering a language is more so them failing the system than the system failing them imo. *shrug*

Ich kann ein wenig Deutsch sprechen. I got to be pretty proficient at German during high school, but I've lost almost all of it if only because in the years since I've learned it, I've never had a reason to speak it outside of class.

At any rate, I had 5.5 years of foreign language in my middle school and high school, and that was pretty standard for my district, so I wouldn't say it was never encouraged. We had Latin, German, Spanish, and French to choose from. Our schools also used to offer Russian until they dropped it due to lack of interest.

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Originally Posted by Rye

http://www.morethings.com/music/davi...-bowie-138.jpg

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You remind me of a babe~

They pushed the two years of foreign language pretty heavily at our school because it was req'd for a pretty nice scholarship from the state. We only had two choices, though, and that was just barely 8)

I'd make schooling less compulsory in the sense of requiring certain subjects to be learned, and give the students control over what they learn.
It may seem like a disaster at first, but in reality, when someone wants to do something, they'll want to learn how to do it.
I feel like learning alot of useless things in high school and then getting somewhat prepared in college is really stupid when you could be learning and experiencing what you wanna do from early on if given the chance.
I remember reading about schools that ran like this in my sociology class and the kids who stuck with it were always more successful than compulsory educated children.
I think the lack of faith in a person's innate thirst for knowledge is what inhibits the education system.

The babe with the power...

Anyway, I could probably rant about two pages of crap that needs to be done with my countries educational system cause frankly it sucks and sadly college alone showed me that I should actually be somewhat grateful for going to private school (despite it being a psycho Baptist school). Anyway, I will just try to list things in as less detail as I can.

- Yes, teach a foreign language and do it early (elementary age, probably first or second grade) that way it has a better chance of actually sticking instead of waiting til kids are in puberty and only care about disrespecting authority and getting laid. :roll2

- With teaching this language, also teach about the culture itself. I took Spanish for years and until I took my Chicano class, I never realized how little I actually know about the Spanish speaking countries of the world. I also feel its better for us to learn about cultures in general. This narrow "our country is the best" mentality we teach in school has to stop. I'm completely amazed how little people in my country actually know about other countries even when they are somewhat directly involved with them.

- Give teachers more room to actually teach their own way and stop trying to "standardize" teaching. Life is not something you can make a formula and hope to god everyone is affected by it in the same way. Teaching and education are an organic thing and should be constantly evolving. Also, we need a special tax which goes towards the teacher's salary alone cause these people get paid like crap and they are dealing with shaping future generations. Not a good combo in my book.

We need more work in gym and the arts. My school had crappy funding for music and art so I felt rather screwed over by it. Gym became a no show in high school cause everyone assumed if you cared you would join a sport team but personally I don't like American football or baseball. Screw you, I just want some physical activity and I ended up seeking it outside of the school system. Our country has a huge obesity issue so gym should be mandatory until you get out of school :colbert:

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Originally Posted by Rye

I think minor sewing is important to learn, small life skills! I learned that in middle school, which was good. But I think it should be taught in High School in a Life 101 class, along with business skills and money management and stuff. Veeeery important.

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Very yes. I actually think that Home Ec. or a class like it should be a mandatory credit for highschool freshmen - I can't believe how inept some people are at these things. I actually thought sewing was a relatively common thing for people to know until about six months ago when a bunch of kids at my old highschool were amazed by me sewing in the halls at lunch > _ >. It was something really simple, too ... I think I was repairing my friends bag or something.

Then again that highschool was daft.

Oh oh ho! I agree with the foreign language thing (in Canadaland, French is mandatory until after grade 9), but I also think that Latin should be taught too. It really gave me a better grasp of grammar and etymology and a bunch of other linguistic crap (although you would never guess ;p)

Ive always been confused about the whole middle school/highshool thing in America (We go from primary Kindergarten-6 to highschool 7-12), how many years of schooling do you actually go through? Are theyre actually two physical different schools you go to from middle to high? It was frustrating having to make new friends after primary school it would be very annoying to have to do it twice. And what does someone mean when they say "Freshman" without context, are they talking about middle school freshman or highschool freshman?

In this country (Pakistan) education for the elites tend to be private and on top of that there are a plethora of private tutoring institutes that further enhance a youths education.

Public education is somehow doable here but not y much.

Tuition fee for education is every where here and if you want free education here, don't expect much

As I said, English is predominantly spoken widely here. In fact its also not so surprising that other non native languages are spoken here as..Not a whole lot but you can a person intermixing German to Urdu and English as smoothly as you can.

For me I can can speak a lil japanese other than my native language (which btw I am quite horrid at). What even is more surprising is that I can mimic other speech pattern if I'm talking amongst certain ethnic groups....



I do wish though that higher education would one day be free as well for the masses, but I guess it'll be past my lifetime I suppose...

Of course Levian had English in school :P

I've taken several languages throughout my school years. English and German/French are mandatory here, which means most Danes are at least somewhat bilingual. Other than English and German I've also taken Spanish and Latin. Would've loved to have taken some French too - always wanted to learn that language, actually.

What I would like to change about the education system here? Hmm.. a couple of years ago the entire education system sort of went through a change, which means that it's now harder to get into uni. That screwed it up for many students that graduated High School under the old system, because they now have to take some classes they didn't need to have to get into uni before. I'm one of those people, and it sucks mighty arse.

Nothing, it's pretty good actually. Promotes higher education and is relatively free. For middle and high school students, even their books are free.

Anywho, if you want to live in a country that has to learn different languages, come here. I had to learn English, Dutch, German and French. Although I dropped French after about 3 years.

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Originally Posted by Rye

Wow, I thought you took in English in school as well! I guess you learned all on your own, then. =O Wow.

Also, I'd make English as a subject allow more independent and self-choice in terms of reading.

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Oh sorry about that, I was talking about third language choices. English was compulsary second language from 3rd to 11th grade.

The only thing I've got any real right to pick on about the education system here is the cost. It's been very expensive to go to school, even in primary school. Any camps/excursions are usually compulsory or have some kind of assessment tied to it, which makes it hard for kids from low income families to actually pass and make something of themselves.

Whenever I hear people speaking German/Japanese in public I'm tempted to follow and listen to them or try to talk to them but alas I am too shy.

I learned a moderate amount of German, much of which I forgot, but it's useful for talking with some of my old friends from Germany.

That said, I agree we should encourage individuals to study another language, but I don't agree it should be mandatory.

One, many American's will never leave the country. Two, I think if you're traveling abroad, you should have a novice grasp of the language of that country you are visiting. I get so mad when I hear that people in America don't know English. I also get mad when I hear about people going to non-English speaking countries and not knowing their language. It's just rude. Europeans clearly do a much better job at educating themselves, but this is because they don't have to travel far to find another language.

America's closest language is Spanish in Mexico, and not many really go there unless it's tourist destinations where everyone speaks English anyway to cater to the tourism.

Everyone in Europe is awesome with languages, except for the English who are all "dude, everyone speaks English." It's true now, but still...you're a dick.

So yeah. That's what I'd change. At least one foreign language should be mandatory from the start of secondary school to the end of college, and there should be more choice. 7 years of a language. Though I'd remove the GCSE and A level tests for mandatory language lessons, and the lessons themselves would be less stressful and forceful. At the moment, it's all "this is this is French. Memorise it. Now memorise every grammatical use of it. Done? No? OK tough, do it in your own time. Next thing. This is this...". Obviously, other languages would be optional and would have the standard examinations etc.

I'm not even going to start on the other massive flaws in the education system. My God, it truly is abysmal.

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Originally Posted by Rye

Wow, I thought you took in English in school as well! I guess you learned all on your own, then. =O Wow.

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I don't think that's what he meant, at least in Swedish schools English is one of the subjects that are mandatory for the longest time along with Swedish and Math. But really, there's such an abundance of English movies, video games and whatnot that you hardly even think of English as a second language anymore. If people ask if I know any other languages than Swedish, I'll be like "No, not really, I forgot most of the French I learned in school... Oh, well, I know English of course." English-spoken media is just such an integral part of our culture and everyday life that it's only in really rural areas where some people don't know English.

As for the topic, uhh, I'm not sure. Less papers and tests, more thinking?

Rantzien didn't read my second post. :( *runs away crying*

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Originally Posted by Rantzien

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Originally Posted by Rye

Wow, I thought you took in English in school as well! I guess you learned all on your own, then. =O Wow.

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I don't think that's what he meant, at least in Swedish schools English is one of the subjects that are mandatory for the longest time along with Swedish and Math. But really, there's such an abundance of English movies, video games and whatnot that you hardly even think of English as a second language anymore. If people ask if I know any other languages than Swedish, I'll be like "No, not really, I forgot most of the French I learned in school... Oh, well, I know English of course." English-spoken media is just such an integral part of our culture and everyday life that it's only in really rural areas where some people don't know English.

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:cool:

Our language is the best
Best language in the world~

I am torn about foreign languages in school. While learning at language before the age of 5 is greatly beneficial for the child not only in proficiency in the language but also in brain development, yet if the language is not going to be constantly used it can be problematic.

I dunno about Ontario, Moon Rabbit, but in NB the French the non-Immersion students took was pitiful. In grade 9 they were still doing days of the week and masc and fem exercises, stuff that I covered in elementary school in Immersion. And this is in the only officially bilingual in the country in an area that is about 60% French. So yeah, they REALLY need to fix the French Core program. Also, the Immersion program needs to be fixed. While I understand that at some point maths and sciences are to be taken in English cuz most of us will continue our education in English, they still offer too few classes in French for my liking. One class of French per semester in grade 11 and 12 is hardly sufficient.

I could go on more but I need to go to work. More to come later...

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Originally Posted by Levian

Rantzien didn't read my second post. :( *runs away crying*

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Man I was looking for one but I didn't find it because there was no Wakka avatar. :mad2:

I was forced to learn either German or Spanish, one or the other. I took German because the Spanish teacher was a dumbass. This was a huge mistake. I live in a very dominant hispanic community now. I don't remember any German because I never used it. You think I'm going to Germany? Ever? No. I should have just admitted that and went for the dumbass teacher as I have no interest in the country of Germany at all, personally.

And are some people saying we should get rid of PE or something? I sort of scanned and think I saw that. I don't think we should get rid of it but rather revise it. It doesn't teach you a lifestyle of how to remain healthy your whole life. It's like soccer today, football today, run around the gym today, lift weights sometimes, okay here's your A and diploma now gtfo. That's it. At least that's how it was done in my school. Where's the schedules taught throughout the year that tells you how to upkeep a healthy exercise regime week after week for the rest of your life? Where's the dietitian teaching you eating habits? I didn't have any of that at my school. But my school was absolute :bou::bou::bou::bou: so whatever.

Anyway, languages. I guess they are important, but only if more importance are placed on them. I didn't care about them that much. This topic is not for me at all because I'm an uninformed pooface.

And learning to sew? smurf that. I'm not smurfing sewing. They tried to teach it to me and I just hurt myself and failed a lot.

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Originally Posted by Bastian

At my high school we WERE required to take two years of a foreign language and our options were: Spanish, French, German and Japanese. I chose German because it seemed the most interesting to me. My appologise to Germans out there, but it was an utter waste of time. I never ever use it. I should have taken Spanish like everyone else.

Of course, now I wish I'd taken Japanese! Haha!

As for what I'd change . . . ugh, so many things. I don't have the energy right now to even start.

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Lucky you. At my school, everybody's required to take two years of a foreign language and our options are: Spanish.

Seriously. At least you had some choices. I'd've taken just about any other language over Spanish.
Unlike Noctiluca here, I don't live in a place with a large Hispanic population. As a matter of fact, there's virtually nobody here that speaks any more Spanish than they learned in school. Needless to say, after a few years of not attending Spanish class, not speaking Spanish or interacting with anyone who speaks Spanish, and not having any thought remotely related to the subject in question in any way, I can barely remember a single word of the language any more.

The only music that I'd ever been really big on through high school was mostly performed by German bands, so I'd've gladly taken German over Spanish, if only for the sake of music.
I'm a fan of anime, so I'd've gladly taken Japanese over Spanish; I've always though it would be nice to learn at least a bit of the language and more about Japanese culture, so I would have loved to have a Japanese class at my school.
My dad's side of the family was German, and my mom's side of the family was French. Even if I chose a language based on my genes, I'd've had more obligation to pick French than Spanish (though in the end I don't suppose I'd use it any more often).

Anyways... I don't know about the system, but I'd definitely like my old school to start offering more choices for foreign language classes.

The thing is, it's not even foreign languages that aren't taught well within the British school system. I grew up in Wales and as such I had to take Welsh on top of French/German up until year 9. Welsh is mandatory until year 11, but you can get away with just teaching GNVQ level for the last two years. To give you an indication of what that means, the old joke is that GNVQ stands for Generally Not Very Qualified. Welsh teaching was a farce in years 10 and 11 and I can safely say my knowledge of Welsh went down from having one lesson a week which is not enough to learn a language. Perhaps I wouldn't mind so much but for the disproportionate amount of jobs that require Welsh where I live. If the Welsh Language Board want to throw hissy fits about people not using Welsh they should be fighting that campaign in the schools before the workplace. Teach it to people in school and more people will use it within their working life. Simple as.

Otherwise, I think starting foreign language teaching before the age of 11 is something that simply must be changed. It's something that I find incredibly aggravating because I enjoy languages and would give anything to break beyond an increasingly faltering 'conversational' level of German into something resembling fluency. It's such an arrogant approach that the British have to languages and you only have to look at the majority of British tourists abroad who make no effort at all to acclimatise to local customs or languages and expect it all done for them while they holiday in Spanish resorts that cater almost exclusively to the English. It's so lazy and it angers me so. When I was at college studying the for my International Baccalaureate I was genuinely embarrassed by the standard of my German next to the English of my German classmates.

So yeah, that.

Edit: I'd also agree with the home economics thing. There's a distressing amount of people I know at university who simply can't cook. I've always liked the idea of a general 'life skills' class that taught you the basics of things such as cooking, sewing, financial stuff (e.g. how taxes, insurance, etc work) and so on.