Farewell to The Patriots (MAJOR SPOILERS)

Metal Gear Solid 4. I didn't really wanted to play this game until I was able to purchase an HDTV because I wanted it to look the best it can on my TV. I decided to neglect that thought when one of my classmates offered to let me borrow MGS4 if I let him borrow Kingdom Hearts. We made the trade and that following night I inserted the game into my PS3.

OMG TIS GAME IS THE :bou::bou::bou::bou:!

I've never seen anything so pretty in my life! When the first install came up and gave me a warning to sit as far as way as possible from the screen and try to play in a well lity area and avoid when tired. I was thinking that these graphics must be so good that they can kill. Even that install screen with Snake smoking a cig looked wonderful and when the opening cinematics came in. I wasn't sure if this was really a game or a movie I was watching.

At the time I was playing Uncharted 2 a lot so when I started gameplay on this I was frustrated because I was trying to take cover with O, X to jump, and Square to for stealth attacks. it took me a while to readjust and I think some button changes were made from MGS3 to 4. The beginng portions of the game were confusing for me because they were a lot more non-linear than the other games and it wasn't as clear to well were to go. After my few frustrations with it though I loved the game.

The story in this game is one of the most touching I've ever witnessed in the game. I still got confused though on plenty parts through the story, but the stuff that i did understand was great. the characters of Old Snake, Liquid Ocelot, Drebin, Meryl, and Johnny give the best performances. I was awed at the last portion of the game where Snake went into that microwaved hall with the MKIII and Raiden was trying to hold off against about 20 soldiers with no arms and holding his sword in his mouth and during that whole time when you were struggling through that tunnel on the top screen it showed the rest of the cast fighting for their lives in a battle that seemed impossible to survive. I was mashing that triangle button like crazy when snake was crawling on that floor and his health was dwindling away. I was like "DON'T DIE ON ME! PLEASE DON'T DIE ON ME SNAKE!"

My god that was a truly tense moment and that final battle with Liquid Ocelot was truly the best boss fights ever in any video game. I thought at first I was only going to watch it until I saw the classic health bar come up and the music change to the classic MGS1 theme. Man was that a great fight.

The game walso had a wonderful ending too. It kept me on my toes wondering about Snake's fate. My mother was in the room when I was playing at the part when Snake was at the cemetary. My little brother was also in the room too and when Snake put thaty gun into his mouth I almost didn't want to look at the screen. My mother told me not to playing games like that with my little brother in the room. When that shot was fired man I was hurt.

Raiden's moment with Rose and his son was touching too and my mom who hasn't played games since Duck Hunt, but started back on ocassion with Wii Sports even commented on that part. man does Kojima write a good story. I'm wodering if he really just did it alone. It just seems to complex and epic for one person to come up with alone.
I was astonished when credits came up and the VA for Big Boss showed up. I was trying tot hink if he ever spoke in the game at all and he might have did in a flashback or something, but when the screen changed and revealed what really happened my question was answered. Iw as confused in these last few moments. This scene to me seemed like it went on for a bit too long. I think all I got from it was that Snake wasn't going to release a civilization destroying virus afterall for whatever reason and was going to live out his life for what little time he had left due to his aging.

This game was great overall and I only had a few issues with it. One being the installs. I don't like waiting to play my games. I think they should've just had one big download for the game instead of several small ones. Second I think they could have integrated more gameplay during the custscenes because sometimes it drags on for a little too long. Third I would have to say that the majority of the boss fights suck in this game. I was thinking that the boss fights were going to top MGS3's but they didn't. The B&B unit had some aweful gameplay to me. The only one I thought was decent was the one against Laughing Octopus. Speaking of the B&B I heard on AoTS one time that Kojima modeled the unti after real life super models. No wonder they were all fine and I couldn't help but let each one of them grab me.

I was really disappointed on those boss fights, but at least the giant robot battle and the final one against your twin were great.

MGS4 stands high on top for me for one of the best games ever. A 9.5/10.

It might just be the best game I ever played.

One of the best stories I've ever heard and maybe the best game-play in any game.

I have to disagree with the boss fights though. While Raging Raven and Screaming Mantis are pretty average, Crying Wolf is one of my favorites of all time, and stays true the lineage of great Sniper fights in MGS. It's essentially The End with The End's alternate fight, where an entire unit of soldiers are looking for you...

except in the middle of a raging snowstorm, lol. That's something that simply could not have been done before, and it couldn't be done now if it weren't for the brilliance at Kojima Productions. I played it without being spotted once, you should try it, it's one of the most rewarding aspects of the game. Try to play the other boss fights without being seen, I think you might change your opinion of them.

Congrats on trying it. I played through it twice on an Standard Definition TV. It looks incredible regardless. But once you switch to HD, man.... wow.

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Originally Posted by Depression Moon

The story in this game is one of the most touching I've ever witnessed in the game. I still got confused though on plenty parts through the story, but the stuff that i did understand was great. the characters of Old Snake, Liquid Ocelot, Drebin, Meryl, and Johnny give the best performances. I was awed at the last portion of the game where Snake went into that microwaved hall with the MKIII and Raiden was trying to hold off against about 20 soldiers with no arms and holding his sword in his mouth and during that whole time when you were struggling through that tunnel on the top screen it showed the rest of the cast fighting for their lives in a battle that seemed impossible to survive. I was mashing that triangle button like crazy when snake was crawling on that floor and his health was dwindling away. I was like "DON'T DIE ON ME! PLEASE DON'T DIE ON ME SNAKE!"

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I definately agree with you there, One of my favorite scenes also was the snake crawling for his life as crazy things happen just beside you on screen, So intense!

Another of my favorite scenes is when Jonny and Meryl had that little lovers' spat when they get bombarded by enemies and they shoot out at them while talking about getting into a relationship, I thought that was really cute =3

It was pretty intense ending, right up till the final scenes in that graveyard, with the old guy.. who just.. REFUSED to DIE! The scene just dragged and dragged.. with this guy about to die.. but just living a bit longer to tell another story.. xD was pretty funny to watch after a while, took all the "emotion" out of the scene tho, hehe.

A class game.

If you get some extra time, download the MGS4 in-game podcasts. Aside from the first one, the ones after that are kind of a 'behind the scenes' walkthrough of certain parts of the game. They tell you where to go when you start listening, then tell you the next place to go, then tell you certain things about that particular area. I thought it was interesting.

How do I download those podcasts? You said they are in game right? Do I go into Metal Gear online or something?

I enjoyed MGS4 as well. It had all the quirky japanese elements that makes Kojima's games so great (the clips shown before the game even started were fantastic) and the gameplay was flawlessly executed. Plus the tech running the game was very well done. Even now I'd still say its one of the most technically advanced games to date.

That said, the story is kinda lame. The dialogue is poor. And some cutscenes were just plain awful. Plus the ending was a little too sappy for my liking. After all that had gone down before it, I expected an ending a little bit more gritty. I think Uncharted 2 really showed off the flaws in MGS4 in terms of storytelling.

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Originally Posted by VexNet

Another of my favorite scenes is when Jonny and Meryl had that little lovers' spat when they get bombarded by enemies and they shoot out at them while talking about getting into a relationship, I thought that was really cute =3

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I thought that was terrible.

It was a pretty good game, though I don't feel its the best in the series.

While I felt the story was pretty damn awesome and emotional throughout, I was sad that the game decided to stick to a small Codec group, and that Rosemary had to be one of them... So, much like MGS2, MGS4 had very few memorable Codec conversations. The rest of the cutscenes were amazing and towards the end you just felt your stomach turning from watching Old Snake suffer. The story really picked up starting from the meeting with Naomi til the end of the game, though I do feel the scenes with Sunny sometimes felt out of place in parts.

My only real issue with the plot was just the final scene at the cemetery, (SPOILER)I don't really see what the point of killing Big Boss was. I was happy to see him come back but I was prety annoyed it was only long enough to make some speech and then die comically in Snake's arms. I felt it would have been better if Big Boss and Major Zero had lived and just retire from the world in some excluded place now that the whole Patriot argument was over. Killing them there and so painfully cheesy really killed the mood and ended the game on a bad note for me. Otherwise I felt the plot was great and easily the best part of the game.

My real beef with the game comes from the gameplay side. I felt Kojima catered way too heavily to the action fans and I felt stealth was mostly non-existent in the game. I'm not used to playing FPS, whether real or faux like MGS4's control scheme but I found the controls made stealth a little more difficult than it should be, combat was easier despite the funky and dense controls (I have to hold down how many buttons to fire in First Person?) and not to mention the game literally makes "running and gunning" the norm rather than a last resort. I'm especially annoyed that CQC is little more now than a throw as it was completely lobotomized from what it was like MGS4.

The ally system was a neat idea but poorly implemented since your only options were to either side with the rebels or ignore them. I originally was given the opinion you could choose either side of the conflict but that's wrong since the PMCs will never see you as an ally. The other problem is that not siding with rebels and using them is kinda silly especially since it makes gameplay ridiculously easy. For instance, in the Middle East city, you get to a point where the rebels and PMCs are having a huge shoot out in the streets, your options is either to take a side road and use stealth or help the rebels punch through. Going through the side roads has you dealing with a few patrols but also several snipers that can always spot you before you can see them and are difficult to shoot down. I died a handful of times there and finally decided to try and sneak my way through the main street, which ended in me helping the rebels beat a tank and they gladly let me walk by. It only took me five minutes to help them overwhelm the PMCs and go on my way. Outside of bragging rights, why not take the easier option?

In South America, I did some demolition duty and despite the rebels not even seeing me sneak into the complex, they gladly recognized me as their savior and helped me through the rest of the scenario with little problems. I constantly tried to use stealth but was either easily spotted and ended up fighting my way through hordes of enemies rather easily despite trying to learn the controls or I ended up accidentally helping the rebels cause the PMCs proved a problem for both of us and the rebels ended up making some of the difficult scenes pretty easy. Basically, I felt the game doesn't give you any real incentive to use stealth, you can easily fight off a small army of soldiers and helping the rebels allows you easy access to where the story wants you to go next. Stealth, felt completely optional and generally silly to even bother with.

If it wasn't for Prague I would almost say their is little stealth in the game. Prague is where the game really picked up for me but that didn't last long and I was back to running and gunning again. As for weapons, I never felt much difference between the various types of weapons, outside of minor changes from ammo and stopping power I never saw the point to use different guns for different scenarios. The infinite ammo of the tranquilizer gun was also a bad move. I almost never used other handguns except to try them out.

On the bright side, the boss battles are still Kojima epic and I really adored all of them. Laughing Octopus, the Metal Gear duel and the Final battle are all easily some of the most intense and fun battles in the series. I also adored the moments where Kojima blended movie cinematics with gameplay as with the various chase sequences as well as the scenes in Shadow Moses and Outer Haven. The music and graphics are also excellent as the norm for the MGS series.

It was a great game that tried a few new ideas of which some really worked and others didn't but it was still a nice send off for the original Solid Snake. I would rank it as my third or fourth favorite entry, depending on whether I want to tie it with Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake.

I thought it was a great game. Unfortunately, I never understood the whole hysteria about it being really emotional, mindbending and whatnot. I'd like to write a tldr post but I see a few people have already done that already, so here's a condensed version:

OLD MANUS PRESENTS MGS4 IS A GREAT GAME, BUT:

• The script is godawful. It's like watching a direct-to-video 5th sequel of Shark Attack. Snake's rousing speech to Raiden at the beginning of Act 4 or something, on the helicopter, was so heavy with cheese it was a surprise the characters didn't suddenly don berets and start conversing in french.
• Snake's voice in MGS1
  Now I know he's meant to be all older and :bou::bou::bou::bou: in MGS4, but it's just got to the point where his voice is so gravelly it's annoying and hampers Hayter's ability to sound convincing.
• EVERYTHING IS BLAMED ON MOTHERsmurfING NANOMACHINES. It's like a Deus Ex Machina, except it applies to the whole pissing game. It's total nonsense.
• I complained about this after MGS3 came out, but what the hell happened to the whole 'tactical espionage action' part? It's turned into a goddamned third-person shooter. You're no longer encouraged to use any form of stealth at any time, and indeed the game gives you weapons and ammo at every oppurtunity. On the lower difficulties you can gun your way through pretty much every bad situation, whereas if that happened on the original, you had to hide or you were pretty much smurfed.
• The plot. I don't think anything else needs to be said there.
• Snake is a total pussy. Part of the character's appeal in MGS1 was the fact that he didn't give a toss about any of the other characters (including Meryl, until later on in the game), and would openly call Otacon an 'idiot'. By MGS4, he's some kind of altrustic second coming of christ with a massive hero complex who just takes :bou::bou::bou::bou: from everyone and goes all emo and WHY DO I FIGHT ;_; I felt sorry for the guy.

And I can't think of anything else at the moment. Feel free to make a tldr point-by-point debunking of everything I said, in which case you probably need to re-think your life goals.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

My real beef with the game comes from the gameplay side. I felt Kojima catered way too heavily to the action fans and I felt stealth was mostly non-existent in the game. I'm not used to playing FPS, whether real or faux like MGS4's control scheme but I found the controls made stealth a little more difficult than it should be, combat was easier despite the funky and dense controls (I have to hold down how many buttons to fire in First Person?) and not to mention the game literally makes "running and gunning" the norm rather than a last resort. I'm especially annoyed that CQC is little more now than a throw as it was completely lobotomized from what it was like MGS4.

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Your acting as though they forced you to run and gun in the game. What made MGS4's gameplay so successful to me was the fact that they gave you more options in how to deal with a situation. You can be as gun-ho or as stealthy as you like, either way works well. I prefered to play stealthy and found the controls to be absolutely fine. Plus if I got caught then I could at least have some fun mowing down enemies. I can think of few games that manage to juggle multiple styles of play and make then all satisfying like MGS4 did.

I'm just going to agree with Dreddz, in an attempt not to accept Manus' invitation to dissect everything he's saying point by point.

The stealth was incredible. The fact that you didn't have to play that way, but hiding in plain sight, multiple paths, and having a million options to handle every task made it, easily, the most rewarding stealth experience in the series. Not only that, but the variety of situations was incredible. Act II especially where you infiltrate an execution site, and then can choose infiltrate with a group of rebels, following their lead. Finally is Prague, where you essentially help someone else infiltrate. The game play went in bold directions that couldn't even be predicted by previous entries in the series.

Finally, the multiple paths and and forks makes the game, at least in one respect, much better than the previous entries. I've beaten the game 3 times and started it a few more, and I'm still finding new things and ways to infiltrate. MGS4 easily has the most replayability in the series.

I think some of you guys are placing too much on the "infiltration of the battlefield" aspect, which is only in the first two acts, and it hardly encompasses the entirety of those missions. Those are really the only open invitations to run and gun, I simply couldn't imagine playing the rest of the game without stealth.

I'm not in the mood to argue but will agree to disagree, I did not walk away from MGS4 being wowed by the gameplay side, and I felt that stealth was more of a novelty in this entry than a center piece as it had in previous installments. The combat was fluid but lacked being tensed cause I feel Snake could easily get out of most situations with human opponents (the Metal Gears are another story entirely) through brute force or just tricking them into fighting each other. It was a novel idea, I just don't feel it made the first half of the game exceptionally fun for myself cause I would spend 10 minutes sneaking past a group of guards and staying in the shadows only to get picked off later and have to redo the section, then I try to just walk in plain site and shoot anything that moves and was able to get through the same section in less time than the first. This scenario happened a few times and I kinda felt that I was being silly by trying to be sneaky when it doesn't net me anything other some personal sense of accomplishment and maybe a different title rank at the end. Its like playing a game where you need to get past a door, sure it has all these wonderful gameplay options to build a key and maybe even tricking someone to open the door for you but if the game gives you the option of just breaking down the door, why bother with the rest? The objective is met, you still get the same reward, and you did it in less time so you can get to the save point and be able to watch all of the Tonight Show.

I just prefer the original idea of MGS where stealth was imperative cause Snake was not a physical one man super soldier like so many other generic space marines from other games. Getting spotted meant certain death unless you were quick on your toes and wits. Combat was only useful for getting away, not getting through. I will agree that Prague was amazing and is easily the high point of the gameplay but I feel the rest was not as polished as I would like.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

It was a novel idea, I just don't feel it made the first half of the game exceptionally fun for myself cause I would spend 10 minutes sneaking past a group of guards and staying in the shadows only to get picked off later and have to redo the section,

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I'm not even sure how you did manage to get yourself picked off after trying a stealth infiltration only to find running and gunning easier. Unless you were on the hardest difficulty or something I can't remember any situations where a failed stealth attempt couldn't transition into a successful shootout.

In fact, if I have one complaint about the game it would be that the octo camo made stealth too easy some times. I could literally make my way right up the middle of a battlefield unseen with it. Granted, it was slightly trickier than finding an alternate route, but still very doable. And if anything, I would imagine that on the hardest difficulties stealth would pretty much be a time saver since open conflict would be more likely to kill you, not that I ever found stealth that much more time consuming to begin with. I could generally sneak through an area pretty quickly.

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Originally Posted by Depression Moon

How do I download those podcasts? You said they are in game right? Do I go into Metal Gear online or something?

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There's an extras menu that lets you download a bunch of extra songs, octocamo patterns and the MGS4 Integral podcasts.

As a short follow up to Vivi22, I felt like even when you're helping out the rebels, Stealth is still the best option. A few well placed headshots from a silenced weapon while hidden would help them cut through, all without being seen. To me it was just another of the new variations on stealth that really made the game rise above my expectations.

Wow, I'm kinda surprised about all the negative feed back on MGS4 in this thread. This game isn't perfect but is truely epic & I really don't see the point in outlining its fault in such a systematic fashion.

Sure there are parts of the storyline & gameplay I don't like it is the same with every game. But hell it's still one of the best video games ever period!

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Originally Posted by Shattered Dreamer

Wow, I'm kinda surprised about all the negative feed back on MGS4 in this thread. This game isn't perfect but is truely epic & I really don't see the point in outlining its fault in such a systematic fashion.

Sure there are parts of the storyline & gameplay I don't like it is the same with every game. But hell it's still one of the best video games ever period!

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I know, it's like a woman with a juicy virginia ham under one arm and crying because she doesn't have any bread.

Its still a great game, I just don't believe its the best entry in terms of offering an overall package. I still prefer MGS3 overall.

As for Vivi22's comment, mostly snipers or an accidental run in with a Gecko usually equaled certain death. I honestly, never found the camo to be incredibly useful. It was more situational for me.

As for only helping the Rebels from the shadows Bolivar. I actually did try that and it seemed like 90% of the time they knew I was their guardian angel despite never being spotted. When you blow up the building in South America, I actually sneaked in there without being seen, blew the place up and somehow the rebels knew who I was when I tried to sneak out and got spotted. I had similar encounters in the Middle East section. I still think it would have been more interesting if you could actually get the PMCs to side with you, playing through Portable Ops, I've been having fun times sneaking into bases in plain sight as an ally. ;)

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

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Originally Posted by Shattered Dreamer

Wow, I'm kinda surprised about all the negative feed back on MGS4 in this thread. This game isn't perfect but is truely epic & I really don't see the point in outlining its fault in such a systematic fashion.

Sure there are parts of the storyline & gameplay I don't like it is the same with every game. But hell it's still one of the best video games ever period!

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I know, it's like a woman with a juicy virginia ham under one arm and crying because she doesn't have any bread.

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I loved the way you put that Bolivar :D

MGS4 was definitely my favorite in the series, for sure where first play through enjoyment is concerned. The utter intensity was just mind blowing. I probably liked MGS2 more than MGS3 because I wasn't really that good at sneaking through jungle & forest & I honestly didn't mind playing as Raiden rather than Snake purely because you got to see the main story arch as an outside observer being drawn into the thick of it.

MGS3 on the other hand did beat the pants off MGS2 in the story telling department. Getting to see how the whole mess started was nothing short of awesome. But I felt MGS4 did tie the whole story together very well despite being corny at times & having a tendency to drag on at times.I was happy with how everything panned out in the MGS story

I think the reason why alot of people were dissatisfied with MGS4's story telling is because Snake's story is at an end & its hard to let go of one of the greatest fictional heroes ever taught out. I do have my suspicions that Snake's involvement is far from over though given the fact that in Metal Gear Rising Raiden is still a cyborg ninja & that MGR may just turn out to be the story of what happened between MGS2 & MGS4 given that at the end of MGS4 Raiden has been made relatively human again. But at the same time is pure speculation on my part given Kojima has not mentioned anything about MGR in the storyline department as of yet!

you speculation about MGR does sound look like it's very possible. I was thinking that Raiden will just try and live a normal life after 4. Is that game still just 360 exclusive?

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Originally Posted by Depression Moon

you speculation about MGR does sound look like it's very possible. I was thinking that Raiden will just try and live a normal life after 4. Is that game still just 360 exclusive?

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MGR was never a 360 exclusive, it was just announced by Microsoft at E3 because it's the first Metal Gear title on the 360.

EDIT: Just did a web search its Metal Gear Solid: Rising just to correct myself so MGSR not MGR. It will be released on Xbox 360, Playstation 3 & Microsoft Windows. No info yet where it fits chronologically into the MGS story.