Anti-clockwise Mystery

Ultimecia's dark cloud turning anti-clockwise under her castle. The exterior blue waves of the inaccessible towns turning anti-clockwise. There are other things that appear to be anti-clockwise in this game as well. You can mention them in this thread, if you like.

But this particular one puzzles me, have a look at this image:

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6391/kadowaki.jpg

Look at the poster on Dr. Kadowaki's wall. It has symbols that are anti-clockwise. At first, I thought the poster was for eyes testing purposes since Kadowaki is a doctor. But testing students' eyes via reading symbols that happen to be anti-clockwise? That doesn't make sense. So, why was the poster there? What's the true importance of itself?

Even stranger that her husband can catch you if you do something bad in game. Like, if you cast magic inside the Garden, the badass ninja will come to you and derank you all of a sudden. How can he catch you so fast?

More to the point, clockwise means progressing with time. Anti-clockwise means the opposite.

I think Ultimecia actually came from the past, and Squall / Co. actually came from the future. At least in terms of time-travelling... or the complications of time compression.

I didn't know Kadowaki and Aki where supposed to be married... (unless her name was meant to be Kado Aki...)

I think the Aki disipline thing is just a bit of humor, but this is an ineresting point, and I will still study it, because I just love theories. :D

Maybe you're required to spin counter-clockwise before you take your eye exam to see how good your eyesight is under pressure?

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Originally Posted by Flying Mullet

Maybe you're required to spin counter-clockwise before you take your eye exam to see how good your eyesight is under pressure?

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:( I did what you said in real life, and it made me go very crazy!

Your theories are way inferior to FE's, maybe you should admit defeat.

Yeah, Aki was very strict on the students at the Garden. Have you seen his overall image? There was a famous character in real life that strongly resembles Aki, guess who!

I have another possibility: it's just a hint of how Time Compression works. Like, when it merges timelines into one, it uses something anti-clockwisely. It kind of makes sense because time normally progresses so that gotta be clockwise... to turn it back and mix something up, you gotta make it go anti-clockwise.

Which direction do you spin to apparate in Harry Potter?

Harry Potter? Close! But it's actually Adolf Hitler!

Quistis looks good in her mini skirt! :bigsmile:

The way she's holding her hands by her abdomen, perhaps she's on her period?

I believe that she was supposed to be pregnant but that will involve a new thread. To keep it short:
Who touches thier stomachs when they are not pregnant in reality? Well, of course, if your tummy is complaining, you would touch it to make it feel better hopefully. But in that case, Quistis would be wobbling or would not be walking at all.

Actually, she just has her hands clasped in front of her as she walks and I was making a joke.

Did she get impregnate by a T-REX while taking a stroll in the training centre? :bigsmile:

Dino-might!

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Quistis: I guess I was right. You and Seifer are in a class of your own. You
both have amazing strength and potential.

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Really? If Quistis actually dislikes Seifer, her answer would be more biased. Therefore, she lies...

Also, it's proven true that Quistis likes Squall. She basically asked him why didn't he dance with him at the Party:

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Quistis: So you'll dance with someone you don't even know, but you can't stand
being around me?

Quistis: I
wonder what's to become of me? I've come to give you an order.

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Quistis: What's going to happen to Seifer?

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Since when do you care about Seifer?

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Quistis: I don't have any good memories of him (Seifer). I've seen some
troubled children, but he was beyond troubled. Well, he wasn't really a
bad guy.

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Oh, really? Trying to find an excuse so that you wouldn't be sad about Seifer dying? Not to mention you said this infront of Squall...

Maybe Squall and Seifer were fighting over Quistis in the beginning?
Would that also explain why Rinoa and Seifer broke up, since Seifer was cheating on her for Quistis??

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Originally Posted by Serapy

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Quistis: I guess I was right. You and Seifer are in a class of your own. You
both have amazing strength and potential.

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Really? If Quistis actually dislikes Seifer, her answer would be more biased. Therefore, she lies...

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Why should her answer contain bias? She's stating simple facts, not her personal opinion.

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Originally Posted by Serapy

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Quistis: What's going to happen to Seifer?

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Since when do you care about Seifer?

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Since she was a teacher and he was a student. Teachers do worry about their student's regardless of if they are good or bad and it doesn't have any relation to any amorous feelings.

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Originally Posted by Serapy

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Quistis: I don't have any good memories of him (Seifer). I've seen some
troubled children, but he was beyond troubled. Well, he wasn't really a
bad guy.

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Oh, really? Trying to find an excuse so that you wouldn't be sad about Seifer dying? Not to mention you said this infront of Squall...

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Again, she's making a comment about Seifer at the moment.

You're taking all of these quotes out of context and then trying to use them as independent statements. Without relating them to the surrounding context and conversation they're useless and extremely misleading.

I will applaud you though for showcasing the same tactics and tricks that Fox News uses in the US to confuse people and create news and opinions where none exists.

But her saying 'Amazing' has got to be an opinion.

Seifer was dismissed from the Garden before Quistis's comments about him. So, I don't know if she's supposed to worry about him for all eternity!

Quistis was involved in fighting against Seifer later... but you could agrue that it was only for gameplay purpose. I'm not sure yet.

Hmm, I found one more anti-clockwise thing. The engines at the Communication Tower, they turn anti-clockwise to power up the whole tower.

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Originally Posted by Serapy

But her saying 'Amazing' has got to be an opinion.

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No it doesn't. It's a basic adjective stating that their skills far surpass any of their peers.

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Originally Posted by Serapy

Seifer was dismissed from the Garden before Quistis's comments about him. So, I don't know if she's supposed to worry about him for all eternity!

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My father is a retired college professor and he still keeps in contact with many former students, both those who graduated and those who either transferred to other schools or dropped out. It's very normal to wonder or worry about previous students, especially those who seem like they could be trouble or could get into trouble.

Quistis concerns for Seifer, because she knows him they're not friends, but (at that point) not enemies either, also it could be another hint to that scene.

Or perhaps the period rears it's ugly head again and Quistis is holding her hands the way she is because she missed her period.

I'm beginning to notice a correlation between these events...

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Originally Posted by Flying Mullet

Or perhaps the period rears it's ugly head again and Quistis is holding her hands the way she is because she missed her period.

I'm beginning to notice a correlation between these events...

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Is this some kind of running joke I'm missing? Like how we all had to pretend to hate FFVII a while ago (though some of the genuine haters probably joined in) are we supposed to mention periods in threads on FFVIII for a while?

Yes.

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Originally Posted by Flying Mullet

Yes.

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Period!

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Originally Posted by Flying Mullet

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Originally Posted by Serapy

But her saying 'Amazing' has got to be an opinion.

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No it doesn't. It's a basic adjective stating that their skills far surpass any of their peers.

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I don't understand. Voicing things about a thing or two... in this case 'amazing' is not an opinion? Ultimecia is much more powerful and yet nobody in the game says that she's 'amazing'.

Yeah, Squall and Seifer both have proven to be strong, but just because Quistis says they are amazing, it doesn't mean it's become a fact!

I don't consider Seifer to be that great. So, he's not definitely amazing!

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Originally Posted by Flying Mullet

My father is a retired college professor and he still keeps in contact with many former students, both those who graduated and those who either transferred to other schools or dropped out. It's very normal to wonder or worry about previous students, especially those who seem like they could be trouble or could get into trouble.

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Oh, never happened in my experience. Well, it's happened once or two but that's pretty rare. Not enough to be normal, at least for me.

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Originally Posted by Serapy

Ultimecia's dark cloud turning anti-clockwise under her castle. The exterior blue waves of the inaccessible towns turning anti-clockwise. There are other things that appear to be anti-clockwise in this game as well. You can mention them in this thread, if you like.

But this particular one puzzles me, have a look at this image:

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6391/kadowaki.jpg

Look at the poster on Dr. Kadowaki's wall. It has symbols that are anti-clockwise. At first, I thought the poster was for eyes testing purposes since Kadowaki is a doctor. But testing students' eyes via reading symbols that happen to be anti-clockwise? That doesn't make sense.

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1. The circular symbols are not counter-clockwise.
2. The symbols as a whole are not clockwise or counter clockwise, as can be seen by the second row.

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So, why was the poster there? What's the true importance of itself?

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Eye testing using a system we are not aware of.

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Even stranger that her husband can catch you if you do something bad in game. Like, if you cast magic inside the Garden, the badass ninja will come to you and derank you all of a sudden. How can he catch you so fast?

More to the point, clockwise means progressing with time. Anti-clockwise means the opposite.

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No, Clockwise means turning in a fashion so that if you draw a line from the center of the circle to its edge and stand it on its edge, as the line points to the right it falls, and as it points to the left it rises. Counter-Clockwise is merely the reverse.

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I think Ultimecia actually came from the past, and Squall / Co. actually came from the future. At least in terms of time-travelling... or the complications of time compression.

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Even were your ideas regarding the counter clockwise rotation's relation to time correct, this does not logically follow from that premise.

If you walk forward, that is clockwise.
If you walk backward, that is anti counterwise

These signs show backward.

No. Forward and backwards are not related to clockwise or counter clockwise at all.

When I go forward in my car, if you look at my car from one side, the wheels will rotate clockwise, and they will rotate counterclockwise when looked at from the other. The same is true when I reverse.

When I walk, clockwise and counter don't play into it at all.

If that chart is an eye chart, the top three symbols will be read left to right. When viewed in that order, the symbols show a clockwise progression.
However, the second row show symbols which are not rotational at all.

I mean if you're on this circle... you step on it and automatically face forward. So, if you walk forward, it's like clockwise. If you walk backward while facing forward, it's like anti-clockwise

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Originally Posted by Serapy

I mean if you're on this circle... you step on it and automatically face forward. So, if you walk forward, it's like clockwise. If you walk backward while facing forward, it's like anti-clockwise

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If you're 'on the circle' you can walk forward clockwise, counterclockwise, or both depending on the orientation of the circle.

You can only move forward or backward at a time.
These pictures / animations show that they are moving forward or backward at a time.

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Originally Posted by Serapy

You can only move forward or backward at a time.

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Which does nothing to counter the fact that you can move forwards in a counter clockwise manner, or backwards in a counter clockwise manner.

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These pictures / animations show that they are moving forward or backward at a time.

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The animation shows those symbols aren't moving, but even if we assume their movement as indicative of movement, the shortest rotation required to go from one symbol to the other when viewing in a left to right manner, the standard manner for eye charts, would be clockwise.

The walls of the towns and the rotation below Ultimecia's castle.

This poster doesn't seem to be a typical eyes check to me. Yet it's smilar to the other rotations.

I'll look for more rotations later.

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Originally Posted by Serapy

The walls of the towns and the rotation below Ultimecia's castle.

This poster doesn't seem to be a typical eyes check to me. Yet it's smilar to the other rotations.

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Aside from the circles it shows being clockwise. Like the rotation of Garden Wheels.

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I'll look for more rotations later.

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You need to substantiate your premise before looking for evidence based on that premise. As it is, your premise is inherently false.

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Originally Posted by Ryushikaze

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Originally Posted by Serapy

The walls of the towns and the rotation below Ultimecia's castle.

This poster doesn't seem to be a typical eyes check to me. Yet it's smilar to the other rotations.

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Aside from the circles it shows being clockwise. Like the rotation of Garden Wheels.

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There has to be an explanation!

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Originally Posted by Ryushikaze

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I'll look for more rotations later.

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You need to substantiate your premise before looking for evidence based on that premise. As it is, your premise is inherently false.

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Oh, shush. Since when do everything require whatever- whatever- in order to be whatever-? If we do that kind of stuff, this wouldn't be a Final Fantasy game!

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Originally Posted by Serapy

There has to be an explanation!

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No there doesn't.

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Oh, shush. Since when do everything require whatever- whatever- in order to be whatever-? If we do that kind of stuff, this wouldn't be a Final Fantasy game!

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Since the advent of the scientific method, at least.
And yes, it will still be FF with rationally constructed, evidence based, parsimonious theories.

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Originally Posted by Ryushikaze

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Originally Posted by Serapy

There has to be an explanation!

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No there doesn't.

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There's no explanation that the poster on the wall uses circles?

Do eye checks that use circles exist in reality?

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Originally Posted by Ryushikaze

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Oh, shush. Since when do everything require whatever- whatever- in order to be whatever-? If we do that kind of stuff, this wouldn't be a Final Fantasy game!

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Since the advent of the scientific method, at least.
And yes, it will still be FF with rationally constructed, evidence based, parsimonious theories.

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VIII is a bit like Lost. A lot of meanings, yet cannot be proved or disproved.

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Originally Posted by Serapy

There's no explanation that the poster on the wall uses circles?

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Nope.

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Do eye checks that use circles exist in reality?

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They use all sorts of symbols.

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Originally Posted by Ryushikaze

VIII is a bit like Lost. A lot of meanings, yet cannot be proved or disproved.

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Then there's no meaning that you can determine. So you cannot assert it as true. In other words, your 'meaning' is meaningless.

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Originally Posted by Ryushikaze

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Originally Posted by Serapy

There's no explanation that the poster on the wall uses circles?

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Nope.

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So, whoever drew that poster had no idea what was he/she doing. He/she created it out of nothingness, it seems.

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Originally Posted by Ryushikaze

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Do eye checks that use circles exist in reality?

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They use all sorts of symbols.

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Normally, the eye checks have letters on them, but symbols don't... Unless you show me evidence that there are eye checks that use symbols.

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Originally Posted by Ryushikaze

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Originally Posted by Ryushikaze

VIII is a bit like Lost. A lot of meanings, yet cannot be proved or disproved.

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Then there's no meaning that you can determine. So you cannot assert it as true. In other words, your 'meaning' is meaningless.

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If I cannot prove or disprove this thing, it always will be something.

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Originally Posted by Serapy

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Originally Posted by Ryushikaze

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Originally Posted by Serapy

There's no explanation that the poster on the wall uses circles?

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Nope.

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So, whoever drew that poster had no idea what was he/she doing. He/she created it out of nothingness, it seems.

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Yes, it actually does seem that way. Why does it have to have a meaning? Just because you want to find a meaning and think the developers left no minor detail to chance doesn't mean it has to have a meaning. It's a minor prop in the background of a game meant to make the room look like a doctor's office, nothing more. It doesn't have to have a special meaning. Do I see something like an eye chart in the background when I play? Yes. Does this make me think, "This must be a doctor's office?" Yes. The purpose of the minor prop is served. It has no further purpose beyond that.

Please remember that developers and companies are on a tight time frame and specific budget when creating these games and it costs them money to spend more time worrying about how to tie every minor detail together, thus they don't. You seem to forget this and are assuming that they had all the time in the world to do minor tweaks and hidden/subtle hints as they went along. This is rarely the case as they are still a business and have to get the game out the door in a timely fashion. Creating the little nuances and connections you're trying to prove would take too much time and money and the game wouldn't be financially feasible.

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Originally Posted by Flying Mullet

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Originally Posted by Serapy

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Originally Posted by Ryushikaze

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Originally Posted by Serapy

There's no explanation that the poster on the wall uses circles?

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Nope.

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So, whoever drew that poster had no idea what was he/she doing. He/she created it out of nothingness, it seems.

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Yes, it actually does seem that way. Why does it have to have a meaning? Just because you want to find a meaning and think the developers left no minor detail to chance doesn't mean it has to have a meaning. It's a minor prop in the background of a game meant to make the room look like a doctor's office, nothing more. It doesn't have to have a special meaning. Do I see something like an eye chart in the background when I play? Yes. Does this make me think, "This must be a doctor's office?" Yes. The purpose of the minor prop is served.

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http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/6624/kiksig.gif

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Originally Posted by Flying Mullet

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Originally Posted by Serapy

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Originally Posted by Ryushikaze

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Originally Posted by Serapy

There's no explanation that the poster on the wall uses circles?

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Nope.

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So, whoever drew that poster had no idea what was he/she doing. He/she created it out of nothingness, it seems.

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Yes, it actually does seem that way. Why does it have to have a meaning? Just because you want to find a meaning and think the developers left no minor detail to chance doesn't mean it has to have a meaning. It's a minor prop in the background of a game meant to make the room look like a doctor's office, nothing more. It doesn't have to have a special meaning. Do I see something like an eye chart in the background when I play? Yes. Does this make me think, "This must be a doctor's office?" Yes. The purpose of the minor prop is served. It has no further purpose beyond that.

Please remember that developers and companies are on a tight time frame and specific budget when creating these games and it costs them money to spend more time worrying about how to tie every minor detail together, thus they don't. You seem to forget this and are assuming that they had all the time in the world to do minor tweaks and hidden/subtle hints as they went along. This is rarely the case as they are still a business and have to get the game out the door in a timely fashion. Creating the little nuances and connections you're trying to prove would take too much time and money and the game wouldn't be financially feasible.

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Time is money. They take a bit of time of the project's timeline and create something that means nothing. How can that make sense?

Not to mention that they were in a hurry finishing VIII. Therefore, why would they waste time on creating things that don't have any meaning?

They take time and create something for a reason, which is justified because creating something for a reason is not a waste of time.

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Originally Posted by Serapy

Time is money. They take a bit of time of the project's timeline and create something that means nothing. How can that make sense?

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It means they take five minutes to draw up some random symbols, scribbles and other nonsense to put on a poster in the background to portray a doctor's office and are done with it and they don't spend hours and extra money going back through the game to modify minor background props to hide secret messages.

It makes perfect sense.

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Originally Posted by Serapy

Not to mention that they were in a hurry finishing VIII. Therefore, why would they waste time on creating things that don't have any meaning?

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Exactly, they didn't. You're trying to find meaning where none exists. It's like the people who see a water stain on a wall and say they see Jesus in it and everyone who doesn't see it is blind. You're forcing things that aren't there.

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Originally Posted by Serapy

They take time and create something for a reason, which is justified because creating something for a reason is not a waste of time.

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Yes, they do. Creating a prop is creating aesthetics. They need to make the game look realistic. It would be quite boring if there were no objects, props, etc... decorating the various locations in the world. It would be bland otherwise and people wouldn't buy the game because it's ugly. Thus they need to put them there. But that's all. They don't spend any more time on it.



Oh, and I hope you realize every thing in your quote actually strengthened my argument that they don't have time to worry about inserting mysterious connections throughout the game. "How?", you're asking? I'll save you from having to post to ask. I claimed that they don't have extra time to spend on inserting the supposed secrets and you gave an example of how they were on a tight time line and didn't have time to put in the supposed secrets you're claiming.

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Originally Posted by Flying Mullet

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Originally Posted by Serapy

Time is money. They take a bit of time of the project's timeline and create something that means nothing. How can that make sense?

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It means they take five minutes to draw up some random symbols, scribbles and other nonsense to put on a poster in the background to portray a doctor's office and are done with it and they don't spend hours and extra money going back through the game to modify minor background props to hide secret messages.

It makes perfect sense.

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If there's no reason for them to add some text on a texture, they wouldn't do it. They will do something that serves a purpose.

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Originally Posted by Flying Mullet

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Originally Posted by Serapy

Not to mention that they were in a hurry finishing VIII. Therefore, why would they waste time on creating things that don't have any meaning?

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Exactly, they didn't. You're trying to find meaning where none exists. It's like the people who see a water stain on a wall and say they see Jesus in it and everyone who doesn't see it is blind. You're forcing things that aren't there.

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I think you misunderstood me. If they were in a hurry to finish VIII, they will not create something that basically serves no purpose or meaning, because that will be a waste of time.

It's likely that the artist puts it there because it's popped up in his head in the first place. Whatever popped in his head was meaningful.

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Originally Posted by Flying Mullet

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Originally Posted by Serapy

They take time and create something for a reason, which is justified because creating something for a reason is not a waste of time.

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Yes, they do. Creating a prop is creating aesthetics. They need to make the game look realistic. It would be quite boring if there were no objects, props, etc... decorating the various locations in the world. It would be bland otherwise and people wouldn't buy the game because it's ugly. Thus they need to put them there. But that's all. They don't spend any more time on it.

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I'm talking about things like this, which is smilar to the Latin text on Ultimecia's paintings.

No one pays attention to Ultimecia's paintings.

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Originally Posted by Darth Cid

No one pays attention to Ultimecia's paintings.

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Actually, there are certain people who do. Way to exaggerate.

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Originally Posted by Serapy

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Originally Posted by Darth Cid

No one pays attention to Ultimecia's paintings.

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Actually, there are is one certain person people who does. Way to exaggerate.

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fixed.

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Originally Posted by Darth Cid

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Originally Posted by Serapy

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Originally Posted by Darth Cid

No one pays attention to Ultimecia's paintings.

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Actually, there are is one certain person people who does. Way to exaggerate.

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fixed.

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If you search 'Ultimecia paintings' on this forum, you'll find more than just one person who have discussed regarding this subject.

Again, stop exaggerating.

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Originally Posted by Serapy

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Originally Posted by Darth Cid

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Originally Posted by Serapy

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Originally Posted by Darth Cid

No one pays attention to Ultimecia's paintings.

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Actually, there are is one certain person people who does. Way to exaggerate.

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fixed.

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If you search 'Ultimecia paintings' on this forum, you'll find more than just one person who have discussed regarding this subject.

Again, stop exaggerating.

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You first.