Sword of Truth is pretty smurfing :bou::bou::bou::bou:ty. Not as :bou::bou::bou::bou:ty as Twilight but it's close.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShlupQuack
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Sword of Truth is pretty smurfing :bou::bou::bou::bou:ty. Not as :bou::bou::bou::bou:ty as Twilight but it's close.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShlupQuack
OOC: Aw man, why did you have to say that? I've been trying so hard to like it.
OOC: Because it is. Terry Goodkind is a poor man's Ayn Rand, who in turn is a poor man's Friedrich Nietzsche. The "philosophy" is awful and the writing isn't much better, and the violence is often just played for shock value. The worst thing about the series though is the way Goodkind gallivants about in interviews pretending to be a writer of serious fiction. It demeans fantasy writers who actually tackle serious themes. He even claims not to be a writer of fantasy. Dude there's smurfing dragons and wizards in your books, it's fantasy okay?
OOC: Yeah, my Legend of the Seeker DVDs have an interview with him and I could only watch half of it before I was crushed under the weight of his unpleasantness as a human being.
OOC: Wait until you get to the point where he takes after Rand and starts including hundreds of pages of preaching in each book. WesLY told me Faith of the Fallen was better than the early novels so I tried it after getting disgusted with WFR, and it was worse. Then again I guess someone who actually liked John Galt's speech would probably enjoy that, but for the rest of us who understand restraint it's just ludicrous, especially since what passes for "philosophy" in his books is logically atrocious.
OOC: I just wanted to read more about Kahlan's boobies, but book Kahlan appears to be made of fail. :(
OOC: If he just kept to writing about sex, violence and magic I guess the series would probably be pretty decent for what it is. He has to throw in all that ridiculous boneheaded 'philosophy' and really valid point and i'm impressed by your thinking.ning of liberals and socialists though, all while taking himself far too seriously. The result is pretty dumb.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man
OOC:
This from the person who drooled over Wheel of Time?
No, Sword of Truth is not a good example of writing. I am critical of Goodkind's writing ability (though some of the first 7 books were done well), and consistently condemn the last four books of the series as extremely poorly done and really ruined the story. That being said, he does have a gift for creating endearing characters that make me give a damn about what happens. Overall, the first 7 books are worthwhile reads that are better than most of the other stuff out there.
Faith of the Fallen does parrot a lot of Rand's philosophy, but beyond that it is one of two examples in the series of being very well written (Pillar of Creation, the following book which nobody liked because Richard and Kahlan weren't in 90% of it, would be the other). Nicci's backstory was very well done, though her past was retconned some.
Of course Goodkind was heavily influenced by Rand, and obviously someone from the opposite ideological spectrum would not be as appreciative of his books. Though all the name-calling and dismissing is nice, not everyone thinks like you do (thankfully). And Shlup is definitely much closer to my ideological positions than yours, at least when it comes to politics.
That being said, Goodkind is bat:bou::bou::bou::bou: insane as a person. Really, would absolutely never want to talk with him. "Unpleasant" is an understatement.
EDIT: Shlup: there is way more sex stuff in the books. It actually is creepy and graphic at various points (Temple of the Winds is downright disturbing at times).
OOC: dude that was like seven years ago. My tastes have matured a lot since then. Jordan's writing leaves a lot to be desired to say the least (I'm not sure I'd even put him in the top 50% of fantasy writers I've read), though I'm still going to finish the series and still like it more than Goodkind's because he doesn't try to put ridiculous really valid point and i'm impressed by your thinking. characters in his books. I don't mind that Goodkind tries to advance an ideological argument that I disagree with; what I do mind is that he does so without ever giving the other side even remotely close to a fair hearing. (For an example of a writer who can write from a right-wing standpoint while giving his ideological opponents a fair hearing I'd recommend Dostoevsky, for example; I hear Chesterton is also quite good with this, though I've yet to read him myself). All his characters on the left either hold logically absurd views or demonstrate mediocrity through and through. This is the same flaw that mars Rand's work as literature as well; the only thing that elevates her work above Goodkind's is that she's significantly better with language. Neither writer gives their ideological opponents a fair hearing, just so they can pat themselves on the back and say they've "won" the argument. Well yeah, but it wasn't much of an argument. Luckily, most people recognise such sophistry for what it is and, if they enjoy Sword of Truth at all, they don't enjoy it for its "political" content.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
OOC: Woo hoo!
Seriously? That doesn't even make any sense. If he doesn't agree with it, why would he argue for it in his books? And the Order is an allegory of communism, not any and all self-described liberals.Quote:
I don't mind that Goodkind tries to advance an ideological argument; what I do mind is that he does so without ever giving the other side even remotely close to a fair hearing.
And that's what it is: allegory. I suppose Arthur Miller was equally incompetent for creating a metaphor of the Red Scare? Just because it's metaphor and hyperbole does not mean it's useless -- that's the entire point of it. This seems to be just another case of "it's terrible because I don't agree with it." Boo hoo.
OOC: Why would he argue for it? So he can demonstrate to anyone who actually considers both sides of an argument that his side of the argument is superior. An unbiased observer who reads the work and notices the lack of arguments for the other side will be forced to conclude, "Holy :bou::bou::bou::bou:, there are over six thousand pages in this series and not one of them presents a reasonable argument for anything to the economic left of Milton Friedman." The logical next step from that will be that the fiction is a cheap piece of political propaganda that does not accurately model the real world and thus has very little value as fiction. If Goodkind is incapable of demonstrating the superiority of his argument to unbiased observers by giving fair hearing to more than one side of said argument, then an unbiased observer is likely to conclude that his argument must not be very strong. A proper fantasy allegory ought to mimic the complexity of the real world if it is to appeal to anyone other than partisans.
(Though, to be fair, this extends beyond fantasy; it's the same reason Atlas Shrugged has little literary value as anything other than a piece of propaganda. Not that the left is immune - to name but one example, Upton Sinclair's work often had the same flaws. Then again, the longer a work is, the more imperative it has to model the complexity of the real world. Sinclair didn't write thousand-page doorstops, much less ten-volume fantasy series, so he had much less room in which to address his opponents' stances. Goodkind and Rand wrote for thousands of pages and still didn't come anywhere near to addressing their opponents' actual arguments).
One should note that my favourite authors are typically postmodernists, precisely because their fiction does accurately represent the complexity of the real world. Goodkind has no subtlety. Because of this, I find his fiction to be crap. The fact that I disagree with him ideologically just adds to my distaste for his fiction, but even if he were on my side I'd recommend that people avoid his works simply because they do such a poor job of addressing the opposite side.
What. The. smurf.
Are you guys serious?
yes :monster:
There's nothing to argue against until there's something other than the argument that's inevitable brought up when there's a position or belief argued that someone doesn't like: "he doesn't argue both sides" (similar to the pro-Intelligent Design argument). If he's wrong, he's wrong -- but he's not wrong simply because he doesn't actively try to justify the opposing side (which would be kind of pointless -- he obviously believes he's right by virtue of the fact he believes it). And I will say I think Goodkind is wrong plenty. As I said: bat:bou::bou::bou::bou: insane.
Though I guess I can say: it's a fantasy series, not a philosophical treatise. Yet again: it's an allegory. See my comment on Arthur Miller. There is more to get out of it than the philosophy, anyway. The fact that you get so worked up about it tells more about you than about the series.
Btw, Shlup is apparently keeping herself busy with all the OOC tags. xD
He's wrong because his arguments are philosophically absurd and completely inconsistent with real-world economics, but he's also wrong because he presents his series as being an accurate allegory for the real world when there are plenty of viewpoints that get completely left out, thus making it an incredibly really valid point and i'm impressed by your thinking.ny allegory for the real world. "He doesn't argue both sides" is a stupid argument when talking about non-fiction, but fiction is another story. Again, I point you to most works of postmodern literature - the authors will present viewpoints they completely disagree with simply so the reader gets a much better picture of the complexity of the real world. Then again, the complexity of the real world is one of the central themes of postmodern literature, whereas Goodkind seems to have thorough disdain for moral relativism. Unfortunately for his own cause, Goodkind claims he's writing Great Literature that reveals Deep Truths that other authors aren't willing to address, when he quite patently omits crucial ideas that make up a central part of Western (and Eastern for that matter) thought as though they don't matter. Kind of undermines his intentions. If he hadn't given those interviews I'd probably just write him off as a wacky Randroid writing Objectivist propaganda and leave it at that, but he himself claims that his works model reality in an effective manner. Judging his works by his own standard, they're crap.
It doesn't help, of course, that there aren't any characters that interest me particularly much in the series, and the writing isn't that good. I'd judge the series just on those criteria and put him alongside Eddings and Brooks if he weren't constantly trying to cram his politics down the reader's throat in a thoroughly one-sided and didactic manner while claiming that he was writing Great Literature. It's Goodkind's overinflated sense of self-importance that diminishes his work far beyond what it was otherwise be. Goodkind himself claims that his works contain important philosophical treatises. Therefore I take him at face value and evaluate his works by the criteria by which he has demanded they be evaluated.
And since I didn't really address this fairly in my previous post (though I did allude to it with my comments about Sinclair), Miller isn't really a fair comparison, since Miller never claimed to be writing a Great Allegory for All of Reality. As far as I know, he never claimed to intend The Crucible to be anything other than an allegory for the Red Scare. (Maybe I'm missing something though; to be honest I've never even read The Crucible, much less any of Miller's commentary on it). Goodkind, meanwhile, has claimed Sword of Truth to be much more than a long-winded allegory for the Soviet Union. It's his own comments that diminish his work as literature. I guess if you subscribe to the Death of the Author school of literary criticism you can just disregard what he says, but I personally find it retarded to ignore author intent when evaluating the effectiveness of a work of literature and thus find Death of the Author to be an absurd school of thought.
Also Shlup started with the ooc tags but I just started putting them in by default after she edited the first few in. Now that she's split the thread though I guess I'll edit this one out :monster:
That's it, time to split threads.
Yes, you are correct - Miller is definitely not a True Scotsman. The point was that allegories are perfectly valid means of literary expression and are intended to promote a viewpoint, and they use metaphor and caricatures to make their point.Quote:
And since I didn't really address this fairly in my previous post (though I did allude to it with my comments about Sinclair), Miller isn't really a fair comparison, since Miller never claimed to be writing a Great Allegory for All of Reality.
Replying to the rest of that post: I already said Goodkind is quite idiotic. You concede that it's Goodkind's outside words which debase his series, but why can't they just be ignored (which I have done for the past 10 years?). Yes, Goodkind likes to spout off on how SoT isn't just a "fantasy series" and he hates "world building" and I'm sure he would love his works to be considered philosophical treatises, but he is a pompous douchebag. That does not, in and of itself, demean the worth of his writing, though, which can be enjoyed by themselves. And even if YOU can't ignore them, that doesn't mean everyone else can't, either.
Your criticism seems to be just a jumble of "he doesn't agree with me" and ad hominem attacks. Oh well. I don't see this getting anywhere.
Why can't Goodkind's words just be ignored? Because Death of the Author is an idiotic school of literary criticism. I already addressed this. Even ignoring that, let's point out that spending over six thousand pages to write an allegory for the Soviet Union is pretty pointless. It could've been done in less than a thousand, honestly, so for that reason alone it's not exactly a model of literary efficiency.
What ad hominem attacks have I presented? It appears to me you haven't even read my posts, since you would have seen that I already addressed your argument in my previous post.
omg rahl totally had a boner; they said it
I read them when I was a little kid but I got bored after like, two.
You were probably tired of being molested via prose.
I was planning on reading them. I may still, but I'm not into political bull:bou::bou::bou::bou: hidden meanings (That's what I got from The Man's post's). I'll see how I like the first one and go from there.
Based on the chapter I just read, the meanings aren't very well hidden.
But I got to picture Bridget Reagan topless twice already. She's so hot.
Also, most recent episode of the series: epic hot. Boooooner.
I couldn't get very far into Wizard's First Rule not because of thinly veiled political propaganda pushing, but more because of the blatantly excessive use of cliché for just about every aspect of the story.
seriously she makes that showQuote:
Originally Posted by ShlupQuack
and let's be honest, mini malcolm reynolds is pretty hot too
Mini Malcom Reynolds? xD I'm afraid I don't see the connection, but I still approve.
omg they're sooooo hot
Eh, ok, maybe a little.
Yeah, Goodkind seems to think wordiness is a virtue... just another way he tries to take after Rand. It becomes obnoxiously overboard in the last four books when the dialogue stops being dialogue and becomes multi-page, endlessly repetitive speeches. In the first 7 books, at least, there are moments of good writing -- and as I said, the characters and their development are the biggest draw of the series.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShlupQuack
So you're... what, 2/3 through WFR? How long does it take you to read a book? It's not like you have a JOB, slacker. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Shlup
So I didn't even realize that the second season had started, so I'm going to try to slowly catch up. Just one episode tonight. My thoughts:
(SPOILER)BROTHER??? WTF? Oh well. Somewhat insignificant change, even though they made the backstory very soap opera-ish.
I don't get how those pansy-ass puzzle piece Boxes of Orden did anything to tear the veil. Oh well, at least maybe this means the plot has a little more promise to become more in-depth and interesting.
I also can't believe they included the screelings song. Not all of it, but still funny. And screelings are WAY more gross looking than I imagined. Yuck.
Lastly: I approve of Cara. The show has done a decent job with some of the Mord-Sith.
I'm, uhm, almost half way through. I do other things!Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
And, yes, Cara is awesome. This season, I think, is getting better with each episode.
And you can't possibly complain about changes from the books. The books and series have so little in common it's like they're not even the same thing.
I'm not sure how "epic hot" the books are but Joel Rosenberg's Guardians of the Flame series has some wicked hot scenes in it. Too few of them though.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShlupQuack
Just throwin' that out there.
What I mostly meant by "hidden meanings" was how The Man said that there's not a good enough rebuttal for the opposing argument (never read the books, just what I got from the posts) so he's basically saying "Think what I think! I'm always right!" without actually saying it. Unless he did say it. :p *Goes to read the books*
That's basically what Goodkind does, at least in the two books I tried to read, yes. To be fair, it's a problem with most right-wing political literature I've read (Dostoevsky, as I mentioned, being an exception). Left-wingers seem to be more willing to give their opponents a hearing-out; for example Vonnegut doesn't actually have any characters that could be classified as "evil" in many of his books, and they come from all over the ideological spectrum.
man i read this series a few times and i love it. sometimes it is a little contrived i will admit. and his preaching is really annoying when it is not so veiled and just very obvious, but the characters and the story are fun and captivating. just try and ignore the preaching and other :bou::bou::bou::bou: and just read the books for the stories they should be.
Um yeah. (SPOILER)She almost RAPED Richard. And Zedd thought it was a good idea?!? WTF, that made ZERO sense. Not even going into the fact that one night of sexing does not a baby make.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShlupQuack
Also, it amused me heartily that right when Cara turned officially good at the end of her episode, she started showing more cleavage like Kahlan. That must be like some sort of good girl trademark.
It was for the Greater Good. Jeez, don't you know this series at all??
And heck yes cleavage. They gonna change the title to Legend of the Titty Seeker.
Greater good of what? Getting off? There's not much other logic behind it. :p
And haha, yes, it's so true. Though ironically the most present cleavage belongs to the two characters on the show who are arguably doing the best job (Kahlan and Cara).
Episode 204 spoilersShe's the last confessor; they have to make more, duuuuh. She had the opportunity to make one with the person she loves without accidentally orgasming him into confession, and she didn't take it. She says it was 'cause forcing him is wrong, but it was at least 50% because she wanted him to want her back. Either way, she's choosing (so far) to let the confessor race die out because she wants to be looooved. She should've accepted the seed donation.
(SPOILER)Did you miss the part about one sexing doesn't make a baby... or anywhere close to that? She also had the opportunity to try to make a baby with the person he loves... by RAPE. And sure, even when not under a Confessor's power he wants to sex her up, that doesn't mean he wants to be a parent. Every level of it is just way wrong.
But it does bring up one thing that bugged me in the books as well: why can't Confessors just use their power and then screw whoever they want for a while? They take some time to recover in the books, right? Or did I make that up?
(SPOILER)One sexing can make a baby. Richard and Kahlan are all about doing crap for the greater good all the time. They let people die and kill people for the greater good, so one questionable rape shouldn't be a big deal.
I can just imaging Kahlan, in battle, of course, confessing some guy and then right after being like "Hey, Richard, we have half an hour before I can confess again, impregnate me while I lay here exhausted!" That's not hot!
(SPOILER)Shouldn't be a big deal? xD Maybe if that was the ONLY way for Kahlan to pass on her Confessor lineage, but it's FAR from that. :p
Also, in the books most Confessors take at least a day to fully recover their powers, and Kahlan a few hours. I don't remember the exact time required in the show. So in the books anyway, it's a good long while.
(SPOILER)I dunno, I would probably make the same choices as Kahlan. Though, based on having watched that scene several times, I think it was the huge boner that scared her off, not her conscience. She totally grabs it and then is like "Uhh... I can't do this!"
Yeah, Kahlan takes a few hours to recover her powers, but she and Richard should also spend several hours making sweet sweet forest love, so like her powers would totally come back at an inopportune time. Not worth the risk.
I guess it would depends on how many hours is a "few" though. In my mind I had imagined like three hours.
damn, i want to join in on this discussion but i watch it on hulu so i am an episode behind everyone else. :(
Yeah, Kahlan recovers in only 2-3 hours, so I can see that not really applying to her. But for the vast majority of other Confessors which take 1+ days? They could use their power, go to sleep to recover, and then still have many hours of sexing opportunity left. Though of course there's still the possibility of giving birth to a male, but that's supposedly very rare.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShlupQuack
Maybe they can't confess on purpose for the day, but can still confess via orgasm.
I know!! I had the same problem watching True Blood. I you use ninjavideo.net, the new LotS is usually up on there within a couple hours of its east coast airing.Quote:
Originally Posted by guffman
yes, but is it the same quality as hulu?
Yeah, they have it in HD even.
wat
this is good news 'cause i heard rumors saying they were going to charge for Hulu in Jan. 2010. anyone heard this?Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF
There're always rumors like that about every site that is awesome. I'll believe it when I see it. Besides, NinjaVideo fills all of my needs.
ok well i am sold, i am on my way to check that guff out!
I'm pretty sure advertising makes more than enough money to cover Hulu's bandwidth and operational costs.
yeah but not enough to make enough profits to enslave the tv watching populace.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man
Finally to the part in the books with Denna. God I love her.
The torture in the books is intense. The TV show does pretty well with the Mord-Sith themselves, but the show's portrayal of what Richard went through in captivity was, unsurprisingly, disappointing.
effin a!Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
Fair point, but wouldn't they have to enslave them to get them to pay the money? It's kind of a chicken and the egg deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by guffmanyeah but not enough to make enough profits to enslave the tv watching populace.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man
Oh yeah every time since I was 12 that I have run my fingers through my hair I remember that one incident
I've never read the books, but my wife is getting me into the television series. I've been catching up on Netflix. Hopefully, I'll be ready for season two by Sunday.
i have been enslaved... and i would unfortunately pay for Hulu. It is just too convenient.Quote:
Originally Posted by The ManFair point, but wouldn't they have to enslave them to get them to pay the money? It's kind of a chicken and the egg deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by guffmanyeah but not enough to make enough profits to enslave the tv watching populace.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man
Denna totally put the Agiel in Richard's bumhole.
I finished Wizard's First Rule, btw. I like the plot in the books better, but the characters in the show better and the way they handle the Richard/Kahlan romance (mostly). I'm conflicted.
Yeah, the way WFR handled RichardxKahlan was nonsensical (mostly in that Kahlan not telling him anything was retarded, whereas in the show she told him but left out some details). The plot of the books continue to get better up until the 8th book.
However, I disagree with you about the characters. I don't like TV Zedd at all, and TV Richard is only "ok". Kahlan and Cara are both done well, but I do also really like book-Cara (who you'll meet in book 3). There's also really great characters in the books for whom I have not yet seen an equivalent, like Nathan and Nicci and Rachel (she had a cameo in the TV show).
The continual references to future books on the TV show is somewhat entertaining. The plot of the last episode was obviously a reference to Naked Empire (which had a half-decent plot, but an example of some of the worst writing in the series).
I like TV!Kahlan far more than book!Kahlan. Book!Richard I go back and forth on, but TV!Richard started getting much more interesting in this last episode.
I adorbe book!Rachel and am super sad her role in the show was so small. And I'm super super sad that the show doesn't have the budget to pull off Scarlet, 'cause she is faaaabulous.
I'm on like chapter 15-ish of Stone of Tears, btw. Woo!
Book-Kahlan is someone who is sometimes good and sometimes just average. She has her moments, but you are right that there are definitely more interesting characters. Book-Richard irritated me enormously through much of Stone of Tears with his incessant whining, but after that becomes much better.
Scarlet and especially Rachel are indeed awesome. SoT brings its own entertaining side characters, most notably Gratch and Nathan.
I'm not sure what information you're trying to give to me by telling the chapter number. I have no idea where chapter 15 is. :p I assume that's far enough for you to have read the ever-entertaining screeling song? Yet another thing that was referenced in the TV show, though without the significance to Richard.
I just mean to show that I'm reading quickly now, whereas the first half of Wizard's First Rule took me a month to get through.
Nathan showed up already. He seems cool. I like how he begs for some tail.
At first I was like "oh wow, you are getting through a lot quicker; you must be most of the way through," and then I remembered you probably just meant the brief scene between Nathan and Margaret near the beginning of the book, and so I was back to being unimpressed.
Nathan is badass, though.
http://www.sliceofscifi.com/wp-conte...get_regan1.jpg
i think we can all agree that tv Kahlan is wicked sexy though. (!)
TVKahlan gives me needs. Big lesbo needs.
I'm at the part where Richard held a gathering and summoned his own ancestor. Oops!
So this show apparently started up again; I didn't notice until today and just watched the latest episode.
It was ok. Interesting plot, but a rather lame way of getting rid of Denee at the end. The previews for the next episode look promising, with the headaches of the gift and what looks like a Sister of the Light (or some equivalent). And the mriswith! Though I do not see any sign of Gratch.
Am I the only one still watching this? Shlup, have you foresaken me?
The last episode was ok, though I am highly disappointed in the butchering of Nicci's character, because she is great in the books (though not developed at all until book 6).
I haven't read the books, but I'm watching the show. So, I can't really do all the comparisons that all of you are doing - I can only speak for the show.
Richard has gotten a lot more interesting in the 2nd season. He was a little too neat and squeaky clean before. I guess that with the new hair and beard comes a more manly and gritty attitude or something. Idk.
Zedd is great, and so is Kahlan. She's quite interesting in the way that she's all mother confessor holy, but still an awesome hands-on warrior woman that'll kick your ass. In fact, she's pretty cool. Plus, the new outfit they gave her is all dark and leathery. Not bad ;)
I like the addition of Cara too. Very dry, sarcastic and dark.
All in all the 2nd season looks like it's going to be more interesting than the first.
Of course I'm still watching it. I should probably chill out on reading it though--after reading the story, the books are so watered-down it's just like... wtf. I mean, I still like the show, and some things in the show are cooler, and Kahlan and Cara are hot, but some stuff I want to smack them for.
Like, in the book, the people inside the Palace of the Prophets age slowly because it takes so long to properly train a wizard. Kind of lame but makes sense. In the show, one day in the palace is ten days outside the palace, effectively taking something that made sense and taking the sense out of it, making it just annoying.
Also the fact that Richard's traveling to the palace, which took like 700 pages in the book, took all of a commercial break in the show.
Again, not that I hate the show or anything. It's nice that no one's getting raped every other page, or that Richard doesn't have time to be up his own ass with righteousness all day. And there aren't any speeches that are twice as long as they need to be because Mister Goodkind is always sure to repeat himself three times in any monologue.
I assume you've finished, or are close to finishing, SoT? You should be ahead of the show then, and I think the show will start to deviate more from the books, given that the show has changed so much around (for example, the entire 7th book has already been done, condensed into one episode in the first season -- same with the 8th book in this current season). The 3rd book also has Cara, along with other Mord-Sith!
Yeah, I didn't understand the TV-Palace of the Prophets, either. xD It was a pleasant change towards realism that they weren't :bou::bou::bou::bou:ting gold, though.
I was fine with that, mostly because I would get frustrated with book-Richard's constant whining throughout the book. He whines a lot less after SoT, thankfully.Quote:
Also the fact that Richard's traveling to the palace, which took like 700 pages in the book, took all of a commercial break in the show.
You seriously don't know the half of it. I consider the last four books of the series to be more or less awful, largely because of the increase transition from dialogue to speeches.Quote:
It's nice that no one's getting raped every other page, or that Richard doesn't have time to be up his own ass with righteousness all day. And there aren't any speeches that are twice as long as they need to be because Mister Goodkind is always sure to repeat himself three times in any monologue.
It's like every book tries to top itself with freaking me the smurf out. I'm well into book three, btw.
In book one there was Nas the pedo, the Kahlan almost-rape, and the testicle eating (twice).
In book two there was an entire city of corpses, with like ten pages dedicated to describing how all of them were raped, Kahlan almost being raped two more times, and the second time her rolling with it.
In the third book so far there's the dude who collects left nipples. WTF??
Also, for you.
What's funny is that they draw them back on to try to look normal :p
Hahaha, yeah. I have no idea where the nipple thing came from. A magic spell isn't good enough, apparently; what really works is a magic spell and a nipple!
I guess I was just numbed to it because I read Temple of the Winds first (randomly given to me by a friend), which makes all of that look tame in comparison. On the plus side, nobody's raped!
Well, Richard did make the Mord-Sith show him their nipples. Then later they brag to Kahlan like, "He made us show him our breasts! *smug smug* xD
I started reading the series at random because I joined a science fiction book club and chose the first two as choices for free books. It was an overall enjoyable series despite the annoyance of getting preached to but something else that drove me crazy was how pointlessly often Goodkind would bring up and describe "wayward pines" about midway through the series. I got the impression he was over-proud of them and wanted to bring them up in the story as often as possible to show off what he created. It was the same with how he always had to bring up Richard's "hawk-like stare". I got pretty sick with having to read about them.
I couldn't get into the show. I tried watching the first few episodes and it was just let down after let down. Zedd and Nathan were some of my favorite characters in the series. I didn't watch long enough to see what they could do with Nathan because the guy acting as Zedd just did a horrible job compared to what I see him as. I much prefer imagination land.
This thread is so damn long, you guys must really like it. Would you recommend I watch it?
Maybe you should read some of the thread to find out. :mymelbert:
Yeah, Goodkind specializes in repetition. Don't forget the "raptor gaze" of a Rahl. Or Jagang's biceps.Quote:
Originally Posted by theundeadhero
I agree completely that TV-Zedd is pretty bad. And unfortunately there is still no sign of Nathan. :( Goodkind's series is worthwhile, despite some of the mediocre writing, mostly because of some of the great characters like those two.Quote:
I couldn't get into the show. I tried watching the first few episodes and it was just let down after let down. Zedd and Nathan were some of my favorite characters in the series. I didn't watch long enough to see what they could do with Nathan because the guy acting as Zedd just did a horrible job compared to what I see him as. I much prefer imagination land.
No. And that's not helpful, just because you like it doesn't mean I would. :colbert:Quote:
Originally Posted by ShlupQuack
Then why the smurf are you even asking! And why the smurf do you still have a Christmas signature! I hate you! Go suck a toad!
Because Raistlin likes it and I like him more than you. Hmph. And because I'm Chewie. :doublecolbert:
You don't like him more than me, there's no use tying to lie about it.
Raistlin and I mostly like the same things anyway. That's why he picked "Raistlin" for his username--he was hoping using the name of my favorite character from anything ever would seduce me.
If you like fantasy books where everybody gets raped, then this is the series for you! Or if you prefer the version where rape is replaced with Epic Hairography then stick with the show. It's on Ninjavideo.net.
Trying to be somewhat objective, I don't consider the TV show to be much above mediocre, with a couple of good characters and the occasional interesting subplot. I freely admit that I'm watching solely because of the connection with the book series, which I enjoyed.
EDIT: yes, Shlup, when I was 12 and had no idea you existed, I was trying to seduce you. :p
And while we do have similar preferences for a lot of things, you like Twilight, which pretty much voids any opinion you may have about anything. Ever.
EDIT2: who has epic hair in the TV show? "Epic Cleavageography" would be more accurate.
You've caught me. :jokey:
And that sounds amazing. I will definitely give both a try. Books before show?
EDIT: ^LULZ. You two are cute. :P
I'm mostly watching for Bridget Regan, and now Tabrett Bethell. And Craig Horner when he has his shirt off and/or is making bedroom eyes at Bridget Regan. Who I follow on Twitter.
That would be my thought, but I've also heard from some people who started with the show first (now including Shlup) that reading the books lessened their enjoyment of the TV show somewhat. So it might be beneficial to watch the show first before you get the better version of the plot in the books. Really, up to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernChaosGod
I would absolutely recommend show before books.
Thanks, I'll check out the show first then. :cool:
So just watched episode 10 of season 2...Honestly, season 2 is starting to get weird. (sidenote: I'm at Soul of Fire in the series, though I haven;t really touched it in ages).
Some stuff that annoys me is that they have to this point made the fact that Richard is both (SPOILER)Lord Rahl and a wizard completely irrelevant. I mean Nicci (SPOILER)took his han then got killed with it. Unless they said it magically went back to Richard, it seems like he is no longer a wizard anymore which sorta makes me wonder what the heck they are going to do in relation to the books.
Also, Anne is a WAY better character in the books. The TV show makes her a completely blind zealot.
TV!Cara is pretty solid but I found her interest in Leo was rushed even if Khalin mentioned that they've been travelling together for weeks. It doesn't feel that much time had passed. Book!Cara is way more fun. :D
Also, WTF is up with Zedd? He has never been my favourite character but I still find the TV version a bit annoying.
I also want the Mud People to appear, I always enjoyed them.
On the plus side TV!Richard is way less self-righteous than Book!Richard has become. Also, Book!Richard wears too much black. Has he heard of colour? Then again some guys think that "colours" mean navy, shades of grey, black and white.
This turned out way more of a rant than I meant to. x-x;
What does everyone have against Zedd anyway? - I like him.
Future spoilerNicci will be back (recast) so I'm sure Richard will get his Han back.
That spider thing freaked me the smurf out.
ETA: Yeah I like Zedd too.
SotF is really boring at all the non-Richard parts, but the next book, FotF, is great. You should at least get to that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Summoner of Leviathan
Yeah, Zedd's casting was disappointing.Quote:
Also, WTF is up with Zedd? He has never been my favourite character but I still find the TV version a bit annoying.
He wears gold! That's color!Quote:
On the plus side TV!Richard is way less self-righteous than Book!Richard has become. Also, Book!Richard wears too much black. Has he heard of colour?
He is a pale, annoying shadow to Book-Zedd. It's not so much the writing as the actor; he just doesn't fit at all into the book's portrayal of the character, and has a negative impact on his style. On the other hand, for a positive example, the show did about as well a casting job as possible on Kahlan and Cara.Quote:
Originally Posted by Breine
Yeah, seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shluppers
I just realized that I am farther in the series than that...Wow, it really has been a long time since I picked up the books. I'm actually at Pillars of Creation. When I thought about it, I realized I had already done the whole (SPOILER)chimes deal and Nicci kidnapping Richard then turning back to the Light.Quote:
Originally Posted by RaistlinSotF is really boring at all the non-Richard parts, but the next book, FotF, is great. You should at least get to that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Summoner of Leviathan
PoC can seem boring, and the Jennsen/Sebastian parts do stretch out for a bit, but overall it's probably one of the best written books in the series. I appreciated it for what it is a lot more on my second read-through of the series than the first time. After that you might as well stop, because NE and on is terrible.
Also, Nicci is a great character in FotF.
Aha. I have not read the books, so I have no idea what Book-Zedd is like (i.e. I don't have a preconceived opinion on the character). All I know is that I like TV-Zedd. - the tall, long-limbed and odd-looking man that he is. He has a nice presence too, I think.
So as far as I'm concerned they did a nice job casting him *shrug*
FoTF is by far my favorite book in the series and Nicci is also one of my favorite characters.
Ok, I have a question.
The show hasn't really addressed this, but maybe the books have? Why is it that EVERYONE ends up in what is basically hell? It seems like it doesn't matter if you're a good guy or a bad guy, you still wind up in this green pit of sweaty writhing bodies. What gives? And why would the Keeper dude even want to take over the world of the living, if everyone is going to end up at the party at his house anyway?
I kinda remember in Season 1, that the underworld and the afterlife could be peaceful, but they seem to have done away with that concept?
Makes the whole thing rather pointless.
There seems to be no point for Richard & Co. to do what they're doing when they're all going to end up in that cesspool.
From my understanding of it, the Underworld in Sword of Truth is different from it's TV counterpart. In the books, there are mentioning of various areas of the Underworld. Some are deep within and close to the Keeper (like the green Hell-hole the TV shows) while there are other areas further away where the good spirits dwell and such.
The TV series makes the Keeper a more active, antagonizing force whereas in the books both the Keeper and Creator are more neutral for the most part (at least as far as I read).
The Keeper is not really "more neutral," but simply has a less active role in the entirety of the afterlife. As TSoL pointed out, there is a limit to the Keeper's powers, and "good" people end up in a more quiet, peaceful place away from his torment.
The ones that do end up in "hell" are often there because of their own choice. For example, in the book the Sisters of the Dark are terrified of dying before they accomplish their mission of freeing the Keeper, because if they die (fail), then they go straight to the Keeper because of their pledge. Also, the book makes being tormented by the Keeper sound much worse than the TV show.
I don't know why the TV show decided to make everyone end up in this purgatory-type place for all eternity. Maybe to help further the baneling plot.
So I really liked last week's episode, but next week's looks like it may just be the best episode of all time ever.
I just looked up the trailer for it in response to your post. It was not at all explicit but did strongly suggest a sex scene, which I assume is all you paid attention to. :p
EDIT: I also thought last week's episode was kinda lame. What with Richard just randomly waking up and (SPOILER)Leo dying just in time and all. Very corny.
Well the rest of the trailer was from previous episodes and the only new stuff was like "HEY SEX TIME" so what the hell else would I pay attention to? You think I'm watching this show because it makes me think? I watch it because it's hot.
Last week's episode was good, dammit! He didn't randomly wake up, he realized it wasn't real and broke the spell. Duh.
I realize that, but it was a pretty lame spell that doesn't really show how no one besides Richard ever broke out of it. No one can ever break the spell of Perdition... unless they really love someone like Richard did so would know the hallucination isn't really. Obviously no one's ever felt such true love like Richard. The corniness of it all makes me want to barf.
However, now that I think about it, it's a bit silly to criticize the TV show for a Richard-based deus ex machina -- unless I'm complaining about it copying Goodkind's theme. The obnoxious ending of NE is barely readable.
I wanna jump in and say that if there's another case of possession or mistaken identity... I'mma throw up. If Richard says "None of this is real!" ever again... ugh.
Now that you mention it, between this last episode, the dream episode, the first season finale (going to the future), and probably some others I'm forgetting... that does seem to be a rather common theme.
Yeah, I hate this repeat crap. I wish they would make the series a little more grand-scope rather than so cut-and-dry episodic.
The show isn't as pretty as I remember it being. The New Zealand backdrop and the cinematography were what drew me in when I first started watching. Production value just doesn't see as high anymore.
ANYWAY, I <3 Kahlan and Cara. They're awesome together and the main reason I keep watching the show.
Really? I think it's become prettier and the production value has become higher. I remember in season 1, it always seemed like they were walking around in the same forest. Not much variation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miriel
Hmm, maybe it's just me, I don't know.. but I think the show's become bigger and prettier in the 2nd season.
Ugh, why isn't it Saturday yet? This episode will be pretty.
Just downloaded season 1, about to give it a look-see.
It shouldn't take you long to catch up. The second season is better because it has Cara.
I read too many spoilers for Saturday's episode. :o
So I only ended up watching the pilot since it was a double episode, I'll have to watch more to really get a feel for the series. It's interesting so far though.
Did anyone else think Darken sounds like David Bowie in Labyrinth?
And Kahlan is hot.
I didn't think of it myself, but now that you mention it I can see the similarity.
That is the uniform opinion of everyone who has watched this show. It's really the main reason to bother with it instead of going straight to the superior book series.Quote:
And Kahlan is hot.
Lulz. I'll certainly be watching more at least partially because of her, the dresses she wears are... nice. :jokey:
But I do feel like this episode was rather cliche.
EDIT: Damn, Khalan as a mord sith. smurfing hot.
The TV show is very campy and corny, and at times repetitive. I consider it a guilty-pleasure show which I only watch because I enjoyed reading the books. If you're underwhelmed, well, I wouldn't blame you.
Anyway, I thought the latest episode was another mediocre one. VERY predictable. I could have practically written the script myself shortly after the amulet was broken. And yet another (SPOILER) "OMG I know you're not the real Kahlan because you're not perfect" moment for Richard. What is that, like three or four now?
One 30 second scene (which wasn't even that intense) does not reshape the other 40-some-minutes of the episode. THOSE were mediocre. :p
^lulz.
Haha, it's pretty predictable, but not necessarily bad. I've gotten to episode 12 so far, it's enjoyable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
I'll be looking forward to reading the books if they indeed are better.
I thought the episode had a lot of good moments. The overall plot was predictable, but the individual parts were interesting. I loved Confessor!Kahlan and the "You can get out of my chair."
Also, Bridget Regan doing two sex scenes at once? Bravo, writers, bravo!
Yeah, that "take off your clothes... don't kiss me, just get to it" scene where they didn't actually show anything was very intense. :roll2
I didn't say anything about being intense. The episode was interesting. :expee:
1. I was really hoping Kahlan would have given the potion to Richard to make him immune to her powers, I had already forgotten about Chase.
2. So a wizard of the first order, a seeker, and a pristinely ungifted all in one family? If it turns out Darken is an evil uncle or something I'm going murder someone.
Hahaha, yeah... um...
Anyway, in the books, the whole "pristinely ungifted" thing makes a lot more sense (though not introduced until book 7). That was one example of the TV show literally taking a premise behind an entire book and cramming it into one episode, all the while butchering the parts that make the premise make sense to begin with.
In the books (SPOILER)Richard is immune to Kahlan's powers.Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernChaosGod
Ummm, close enough. The books have it that (SPOILER)Darken Rahl is Richard's father after raping his mother/Zed's daughter.
BTW episode 11, season 2, I couldn't stop laughing at the Kahlan that was the heart. They was she reacted to Cara was hilarious. Oh hysterical Kahlin is funny~
Aydendril looked majestic from without, but like a small trader's town from within. The Tower of Aydendril I always imagined was a lot more beautiful than what they showed in the TV series. :/
I advise you not to read either of TSoL's spoilers, and I don't know why he'd even post them, since you were going to read the books anyway.
You just described most of the episodes. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
That's the main problem with the series: they take really great storylines and cram them into one episode, and then they are "resolved" and never mentioned again, when they would've made a really great arc. Meanwhile the whole season is based on one big arc that hardly ever gets any progress until the season finale. The show is way too episodic, and they've really dropped the ball in going that route, when the books did have a lot of potential to be turned into a great show.
Still pretty though.
Totally not going to read the spoilers.
I'm not even sure which point this refers to, but I still don't like the implications.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
Well, that's actually kind of a relief. I'll be looking forward to that then, but when should I actually start the books? The show is barely on the tail end of season 2 and it seems that they don't really follow a set order.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
You can start the books whenever you want. Though if you want to follow Shlup's advice of TV show before books, you might want to wait until you finish the second season. The first season's arcing plot roughly corresponds to the events of the first book, and so far the second season very (very) loosely corresponds to the second. I can't see a point in waiting months/years for every season to come out first, though.
Yeah, that certainly didn't seem like a very promising prospect. I'll wait until the end of the second season, I'm just about to start it and then I should have plenty of time until the beginning of season 3 to read.
Yeah, I think you've got a fair head start with the series and can start the books whenever. The second season is bull:bou::bou::bou::bou:ting it's way through book two but whatever, it's not that close that you should worry about trailing through the whole series.
A third season isn't even confirmed yet anyway.
Man, it better continue or I'm going to be pissed.
I'd miss Khalan. :(
I'll see about getting all the books soon on eBay or something.
EDIT:smurfing hell. Darken is Richard's brother? I just thought he was lying when he told Jensen that. smurfing keeping it in the family. :|Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
I'll contribute with a third bravo!Quote:
Originally Posted by ShlupQuack
I dunno if it's just me, but I think the writing is getting worse. The past episode yet again had little surprise. Every episode anymore has absolutely nothing to do with the main quest, and is just another little episodic sidequest. At first I was able to tolerate the episodic nature, because unlike Shlup I didn't expect any better quality than that (this is not The Sopranos quality writing, here). But it's either getting worse or I'm just getting tired of it.
(SPOILER)There was NO drama behind Cara's "death." She just... died, so suddenly and anticlimactic that it was so obvious that she was coming back somehow.
Yes, the episodes are becoming too much about sidequests rather than the main quest. I don't really agree with you on the writing becoming worse, though. I actually thought that the last two episodes were quite enjoyable.(SPOILER)Yes, Cara's death was anticlimatic (even though her still torturing the soldier after having her throat slit was pretty badass) and you totally knew that she would recover/come back, but I still liked the episode. It was really nice to see the growing desperation of Cara, plus this episode pretty much entirely focused on her and the conflicts this new state of hers brought. It's never bad when Cara gets some more spotlight action. But yeah, I still agree with the fact that the episodes are getting really episodic.. but that's how the show's been all the time, basically. Also, I was glad to see Ted Raimi return. That guy's awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
I expected something pretty good going into the series, but it's kind of "meh". =\Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
I warned you. :p I'm only watching because I enjoyed the books and especially the book's characters. Admittedly the show does a good job with Kahlan and Cara, but with the seemingly haphazard writing and lackluster other characters, to me it's just something to watch over the weekend.
I loved this episode! I <3 TV!Cara 4evar. You of all people, Raistlin, should appreciate anti-climactic deaths (ala like half of the main Dragonlance characters). The characters aren't infallible; she smurfed up and got her throat slit. And still killed the guy.
As she got more desperate she got more awesome. She ended up telling them to go on without her, not upset that she was going to die but upset that she had failed. The look on Richard's face when he realized Cara had died was great; a lot of this show isn't about the dialogue, but the character's faces.
And Cara awkwardly sucking Richard's fingers was funny.
I actually quite enjoyed that part, I really like Cara as a character.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShlupQuack
That kind of just made me uncomfortable. Then I wondered why no one has anything that can resemble a cup.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShlupQuack
Or why she didn't dive in face-first herself. Or how that was possibly enough when 1/4 of a bottle of it (when it was watered down) wasn't enough.
I thought about both of those, but I just figured since this was pure and straight from the source I'd let that slide. But I really did wonder why she didn't go first, Richard could have held her and she could have just used both hands and started shoving that stuff into her mouth.
On a different note, I was actually quite enjoying catching up on the show, so now I'm kind of sad that I have to wait a week in between new episodes now. :(
I always love checking out new shows and just watching episode after episode, but I always hate waiting for new episodes.
Okay, I'll buy that "straight from the source" bit.
And I'm the same way about shows, heh. Often I see a show I know I'll like, but I just don't watch it so I can marathon it later.
So just watched episode 12...I am hoping that there is some actual plot that is about to happen within the vicinity of anytime soon.
I just thought they rushed through it too much at the beginning, making it incredibly obvious Cara would get quickly saved. I know main characters almost never die, but at least try to make it somewhat dramatic.
Haha, yeah, that was weird.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShlupQuack
Yeah, that's one of their problems, that they rush through story lines in one episode that they should give the proper time to over at least a couple of episodes.
Yes, most of the episodes that actually followed plots from the books should have taken more than one or two episodes, such as Richard's training or the Sisters of The Dark stuff... ah well.
When Kahlan split into two, I almost peed my pants, as per my previous post.
I haven't read any of the stories yet, but it does seem like the episodes would benefit from expanded story arcs and less of an episodic nature.
I guess you can't really blame them too much though, a lot of shows are pretty episodic in the beginning and then start having more story arcs.
I had to fight the urge at times to turn off this episode. I know it's a campy show and I've been entertained by it for a good while, but it seems to have lost any effort to take itself seriously at all. A ruler who makes women speak in poetry? Cara dressing up, Zedd cross-dressing? Richard having to make out with an ugly girl? Richard then being forced into marrying that girl? Jesus Christ.
Also, Cara cutting out and eating the raw liver was gross. Not exactly my idea of seduction. Kahlan's quip at the end about Cara's cleavage was amusing, though.
I liked Cara dressing up, I pretty much drooled all over myself. But Richard and Zedd's situations just were awkward for me and made me uncomfortable watching.
But the episode was pretty whack, the poetry bit was retarded and just made me mad.
I'm seriously not surprised by the campy and silly nature of this episode, considering the fact that the people behind this show also produced shows like Xena and Hercules (that sometimes got a whole lot more campy than this episode ever did - and they did it better imo).
It definitely wasn't a great episode, but I thought it had its moments. E.g. Cara being forced into uncomfortable and amusing situations, and Richard looking ridonkulously silly with that blonde hair of his.
So I read Wizard's First Rule and simply put, it is the worst book I have ever read in my entire life. It was pure :bou::bou::bou::bou:.
Worse than all the drivel Stephanie Meyers or Dan Brown has ever put out. I mean my god, this book makes Twilight seem GREAT in comparison.
The fact that anyone was able to look through that steaming pile of crap and pull from it a few positive things to use for the TV show is mindboggling to me. Whoever did that is a smurfing genius.
Repetitive (!!!) juvinile writing, awful annoying characters who are stupid to the point of retardation and who just cry all the time, and a plot that's just frustrating and pointless. Ugh.
watQuote:
Originally Posted by Miriel
I lol'd.
Please read Stone of Tears. If you think Wizard's First Rule was bad you must read the second one. Maybe the third. You must not stop reading until every single character that is ever even briefly mentioned has been raped! Don't worry, it doesn't take long.
The dude is so demented. It's like "Hey, there's an epic battle going on, I'm going to say a couple of lines about the blood and then spend the rest of the chapter describing the rape."
Terri Goodkind is smurfed up.
P.S. I'm like halfway through Temple of the Winds (book four) but I haven't read it since FFXIII came out...
It is not nearly that bad. The characters get much better, too, and are the main reason I enjoyed the series. The writing has good and bad periods, but picks up after the first couple books. The plot is also SO much more deep and complex than the TV show, and actually becomes quite engaging once you get into the series.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miriel
If you want crazy, though, read or listen to any of Goodkind's interviews. They're kind of entertaining in a "wow, is this guy connected to reality?" kind of way.
Just saw the latest episode, I missed Kahlan. :(
I'd say it wasn't a bad episode, it was nice seeing how things turned out with Kahlan's father. And seeing some character growth from Nicci was cool too.
I'd write more but I'm tired.
My response to the last episode: bye bye, 6th book. Yes, yet again they condensed an entire book (probably the best in the series) and butchered it into an episode.
However, not considering the books, it actually was a pretty strong episode for the TV series. I can't forgive them for using the terrible spider things again, but overall not bad.
Lol. I suppose I can appreciate it more not having read the books yet so I don't really know how things are supposed to play out. But damn, that does suck.
Seeing as I'm still on book four, I thought it was a great episode. Darker than usual. Loved it.
Oh man, where are you in book four? That book far and away has the most disturbing scenes in the series.
I rather enjoyed this episode a lot. It's probably one of the best in a while.
I thought the story was handled well, especially considering it could have been dealt with in a very cliché and bad manner. The next episode looks like it's gonna turn up the volume of epicness as well. It's gonna be interesting seeing the actress from "Whale Rider".
Yeah, the last episode was certainly a good episode for the series. I am also very happy the show actually did something interesting with Nicci's character -- it's different from her dramatic development in book 6, but it seems like it could be very interesting.
I'm at the part where Kahlan went to visit Shota and they're having a very awkward tea party.
Exactly. The part with Nicci going "I decide for myself, thanskverymuch!" was pretty cool - and as you said it could potentially become interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
OK, question about the latest episode. How is the Creator bit handled in the books?
It's not. Goodkind is a staunch atheist and it is revealed subtly in his writing: the main characters only pray to spirits (which do exist in the books and occasionally show up), and people who continually worship some unobservable "Creator" figure are mocked or viewed as religious kooks (Sisters of the Light, etc.). It is explicitly stated as early as the second book that neither Richard nor Zedd believe in a Creator in the personal god sense (Zedd considers it a metaphor for balance in the world of life or some such).
Maybe the TV show should continue to rip off entire books, because when they go off on their own it just gets worse. The show went from one of its strongest episodes to one of its weakest.
I hate recap episodes. They're so boring.
That... makes no sense. In a Universe where there's magic and prophecies and spirits and a Keeper of the Underworld, why would the worshiping of a creator be mocked? A divine creator in that kind of world would make sense. Not really a subtle way of interjecting his own personal beliefs imho.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
That's rather odd considering the type of show it is. I'm with Miriel, it would make perfect sense for their to be an actual Creator where they are fighting against the Keeper.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
The episode was meh though.
It makes sense that people would interpret a distant and abstract god concept in different ways. I didn't think the people who followed The Creator more closely were mocked in the books by actual characters IN the books, but the writing did seem somewhat on the side of atheism.
Also.. in the show, things are very different from the books, which we already knew.
Agreed, clip shows are ridiculous and annoying.
recaps suck, on the whole I do like the series. creator/keeper dichotomy makes sense to me and the fact that they are at war/odds seems completely plausible. Living things fear death and I'll stop before I confuse myself. I haven't read all of the 2nd book because I may not like season 2 if I do, so I'm patiently waiting till the season ends :D book 1 was really good though. Often times in the books the characters go into there heads with the text, or off on their own. It's much more visually pleasing to have conversations and keep the characters grouped together. The I guess I'm saying the interactions makes the show, and In that case having all 3 people move off in different directions would be really hard to follow on the tv screen imo.
I think I made my point too strongly. When I said "subtly," I meant subtly. The vast majority of people in the world believe in a Creator, and from purely anecdotal evidence of talking to people, the majority of readers think that a Creator exists in the world (though more of a clockmaker deistic type). The "mocking" is nothing more than a few instances throughout the series when a believer says something along the lines of "the Creator helped us" through a battle, and Kahlan/Cara/someone says "I did not see the Creator wielding a sword." The point is somewhat subtle, but I don't see any way around the conclusion that Goodkind did not intend there to be a Creator-personal-god, and that the main characters (Richard, Zedd, Kahlan, Cara, etc.) do not believe in one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miriel
And it certainly makes sense. People in the books believe in magic and spirits because they see it with their own eyes every day. They don't see a Creator. Just because some supernatural things exist does not logically give them license to believe in anything and everything with no evidence.
Is there not an actual Keeper in the books? o_O
Yeah, there is a Keeper. He orders his Sisters of the Dark and other agents/banelings around, though he does not have absolute control over the entire underworld like the TV show portrays.
Well, it's kind of silly for their to be the Keeper and have people not believe in a literal Creator, is it not?
What's the deal with him in the books? Multiple overlords of the underworld?
He is said to control death (the Sister of the Light say his presence causes death, but that may be metaphorical), but he only has absolute control over his own little corner of the underworld for people sworn to him and very bad people, like a Hell. Actually, that makes it sort of easier: think of the book-underworld as the entire spectrum of afterlife all together in one boundless infinity. Also, it's never explicitly stated how the Keeper started out. His influence on the world of life is also more limited. He can send some creatures occasionally, but "banelings" are just another term for people sworn to the Keeper; he does not send people back from death. Basically, the Keeper is much less personified in the books. He has his minions, but 95% of the time you don't actually see him giving any orders.
It's a little difficult to explain in a vacuum. It's very easy to understand once you've read just the first two books.
Haha, k. That helps, I guess I'll just go browse Amazon for a bit.
This episode was amazingly awesome... best ever in my opinion. It was exactly what I thought the series would be all about which is great!
The last episode, aside from the CaraxKahlan interaction which was amaaaazing, was complete crap. Mummies? Seriously, mummies? Idiotic.
But how hot were Cara & Kahlan in the tomb? Answer, SO HOT!
Sweet, there was a new one tonight? FINALLY. I'll check it out tomorrow after work. :bigsmile:
It was okay. The bandaid monster grew on me. The Cara/Kahlan parts were, obviously, the best parts.
Next episode looks cooler. I've always wanted to see Penis.
I've been seriously meaning to watch this show again. I wasn't able to in England, because of Hulu restrictions. :(
Bleh I like mummies, and have played a lot of D&D.. which I always use as the basis in my mind for what fantasy shows/movies should be.. So of course I was lovin' it.
Again this didn't remind me so much of the books, although the bit of morality court did.
I never watch the previews of next week, but as per FB info, apparently the next six weeks will always be a new episode until the season finale.
I have to agree with this. It even started out bad with the overdone "surprise party" (which I totally called) followed by a terribly predictable "twist." Everything about the plot was annoying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slave Bikini Leia
If Kahlan remembers that Cara can give the breath of life then why didn't Richard? They didn't have to torture Zedd to near-death to get the bandages off, they could have killed him with Cara around.
It seems like they can't really follow their own rules in the span of one episode. Unless someone can explain a reason for this.
I actually thought the episode was alright. The mummy thing grew on me too, and at the end of the episode I actually thought it was somewhat cool. I liked it when it whipped out those long strips of fabric to catch people by the neck xD
But yeah, the whole Kahlan and Cara scenario in the dungeon was definitely the best parts. There were so many "Just make out already!" moments.
Oh, and I couldn't help but comparing the magician/the avenger to a tall and crazy version of Bilbo. Seriously, he looks like him.
And speaking of Lord of the Rings - it's gonna be interesting seeing John-Rhys Davies in the next episode.
Snap, Gimli is in the next episode? Awesome.
Yeah, when I saw Gimli was Penis I squee'd.
Wtf is this talk about Penis? o_O
She means "Panis." Or she is mocking the name based on what she thinks of when she seesanythingit.
The episode was... decent, I guess. I loved that Cara basically points out how oblivious everyone else is and how campy and full of deus ex machina the plot has been so far. Otherwise, it just suffered from the usual trying to cram a bunch of development into one episode. I wish for once this damn should would spread things out over 2 or 3 episodes sometimes; it's really hard to care when you just find out about a deep dark secret of Zedd's, but then it's resolved 20 minutes later.
Also the Seeker can fly.. I never knew that.
Legend of the Seeker has been canceled by ABC.
There's an effort going on to try and save the show, and I think fans have rallied together and fundraised enough money to buy an ad in Variety. But ABC has shopped the show around to pretty much all the various networks and even SyFy turned it down. I'd say it's pretty much a done deal at this point. If fans can cause enough of an uproar to bring the show back, I'd say it would be a miracle.
And there goes another one of my shows. I don't have a very good track record. ;_;
What the -- they made a TV series out of this book?! Have I been living under a rock?!
This is what I get for not watching television.
Yeah, I read that the show might get canceled. That sucks, I'd love to have seen more of Kahlan and Cara.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miriel
SPIN-OFF, RITE NAO!
That's disappointing, if not terribly surprising. It's not a great show, but it was entertaining enough for me to watch and did a good job with certain memorable characters (Cara and Kahlan, especially).
Probably. Is it dark where you are?Quote:
Originally Posted by Clo
I probably watch TV shows half of the time on the computer, streaming or downloading from the internet.Quote:
This is what I get for not watching television.
It is dark. Oh no! Anyway, I might try that internet tv-show watching thing for this show. I love watching movie/show portrayals of books I've read. :)
I'm now on the seventh book in the series. I'm still having trouble deciding which I like best (or hate more, depending)--the books or the TV show. I hate the episodic nature of the show, but I've really liked the last few episodes. And Raistlin said book six was the best of the books, and I agree aside from the fact that I haven't read much past book six.
I'm terribly sad about the show being canceled. The thought of a Saturday without Richard's abs, or Kahlan's thighs, or Kahlan's hair, or Cara's facial expressions, or Kahlan's décolletage, oe Kahlan's freckles, or Kahlan's lip scar, or Kahlan's blue eyes, or... WHY!?!?! :crying:
Shlup, are you in lust with Kahlan?
Well, this sucks. :( I don't want the show to end.
I am in anything with Kahlan.