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As everyone can see from my sig, all I have left of the Final Fantasy series is 4. Now, I've heard a lot of jabbering about which one is better, the DS version or the SP version. In your honest opinions (I'm not conforming to IYHO lol), which version do you think a first-timer would like? I'm not even all that into hand-helds, so if you think Chronicles had a good version, let me know.
it's not the graphics in the ds version, it's the better telling of the goddamn story.
Calm down, buddy and just vote. I was just jokin around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilsadar
The GBA version has extra dungeons I like alot, but I haven't even played DS yet so I can't give you the points for it.
SNES version if you really like it old style.
Chronicles version is plagued by a lot of lagging so try to avoid it :/
GBA if you like more bonus content and the original look of the sprites.
DS version if you like the difficulty and a better narrative.
I still haven't played the DS version, but for a first experience with the game, I'd take the GBA version. You get to see it in more of it's original form from a gameplay, graphics and sound perspective with a far better translation than the SNES version had back in the day.
I've played all four official translated versions so here's my personal rundown:
SNES: The story and gameplay have been gutted in this version, its pretty much the lobotomized version of the game though it does have the privilage of having a "so bad it's good" translation that brought us such powerful quotes as "You Spoony Bard"
Chronicles: The closest to the original in Japan, all gameplay is restored including the game's steep difficulty curve, the translation is much better than the SNES version but still not as good as the later versions. Yet the plot is still good in this version but you lose a bit of charming localization. Gameplay-wise its arguably the best version from a purist standpoint.
GBA: Has a better translation than Chronicles and Amano artwork for dialogue speeches. It feels the same as Chronicles until you get halfway into the game when the Difficulty spike never occurs. This is because one of the new features in this game is the ability to assemble your own final party from the whole cast (in all other versions your party is determined by the story a la FFII) unfortunately, people like Edward and Cid are not end game materials so despite getting some snazzy equipment upgrades thanks to a new dungeon the game has to nerf the end parts including the final boss just to maintain some balance. On the bright side, it actually has a very cool non-linear optional dungeon that unlocks at the end of the game that offers some unique gameplay including morality choices, a puzzle maze, some awesome boss fights, and a murder mystery.
DS: Beyond the obvious changes such as graphics, music, and VA work the DS version decides to add the augment system as a response to the the "Choose you own party" feature from the GBA version. Basically, you can acquire abilites called augments that allow you to teach your story party new abilities many of which are abilites from party members that will permanently leave your party at the stories insistence. This new customization allows you to take the straight forward gameplay and turn it on its head but here's where things get a little better. Unlike the GBA version, SE decided to revamp the whole game and its enemies to keep the game's original difficulty curve top compensate for your parties new skills.
Other changes include a series of mini-games that can be accessed at any time and helps a certain new summon in the game which you can use for the WiFi features. The equipment system has also been made more user friendly and actually shows you how the equipment affects your party without switching between the equip screen and status screen. Allowing you to better customize your party beyond "equip whatever has the highest stats". Most of the cast was also modified and retooled and while Kain and Tellah have been nerfed a bi, other characters like Cid, Edward, and Edge have been completely overhauled for the better making them far better characters in their own right and no longer being the dead weight they used to be.
To be honest, while I feel the DS version would be the best entry for anyone who started with the later FFs cause it has many of the features that made later entries stand out, I also feel its difficult to appreciate the amount of change and polish that went into the game without having played a version closer to the original. Overall, I recommend the Chronicles and DS versions cause one of IV's claims to fame was its high difficulty curve.
The DS version is fine but I seriously dislike all of the augments they made available which weren't even part of the original game. In all honesty, the DS version of the game isn't that difficult to begin with [it has a few challenging points but overall the game is really not that hard], but they decide to add in a bunch of nonsense augments that take what challenge is there away. I can't even remember most of them, but I remember some of the magic ones, one of which [I think] gave single target spells [like Haste] have "all" effects, along with a dual-casting augment if I recall right [like having a Soul of Thamasa or something]. Correct me if I'm wrong, but these augments are in the game aren't they? There are a ton more which really take a lot of the challenge out and lessen the fun of the game. I don't really see it as being much different from FF VI's Ultima -> Quick -> Ultima -> Ultima with only 65 Magic [which is enough to pop 9999's with Ultima] and about 100+ Speed and a Celestriad if you're one of those people that doesn't like to use turns doing Osmose.
They do exist but they arrive late in the game and after the final dungeon... yeah you need them. The Dark Sorcerers are broken as all hell and don't deserve "fair play".
Zeromus wasn't exactly as challenging as he is in the Chronicles edition but just about everything else in that dungeon is... On the bright side, at least the true game breaker skill is only unlocked after you finish the game. I genuinely liked the Augment system since it allowed me to make Paladin Cecil much more useful cause god knows he really did need Counter as an ability. I don't feel the augments really break the game or take away from it cause very few are ever really overpowered and the few skills that can be considered are not easy to acquire with out a guide (Like Soul Eater, W-Cast, and Target All) so I see little harm. As for difficulty I guess that just depends on the player, I personally found a few boss battles to be much more difficult than I remember (Golbez anyone?) but others that other people have been having issues with I had no trouble at all (CPU unit and Zeromus). Its all in the eye of the beholder but personally I feel the game offers a pretty fun and new way to experience FFIV. Since it doesn't tamper with the story at all, I'm pretty lax about everything else and the game is still much more difficult than the GBA version.
If you'd rather play on a console, do the chronicles version. It's the most authentic too. THe GBA and DS versions are cool, but not the real thing.
All I'm gonna say is that you shouldn't get the PS1 version. It's poorly optimized for the storage medium it's on. I mean disc access just to open the menu? Seriously? With the extra RAM on the PS1 vs the SNES, they probably could have preloaded the next area too, to lower seek and loading times.
I mean it's not insanely slow, but it is definitely noticably slower than on the SNES, because the loading times for SNES cartridges are really low. I was mighty annoyed by them because they were just unnecessary and made the game reek of "poor, cheap and badly thought through port".
The only place I recall noticeable slowdown in that game was accessing the save menu. Everything else wasn't exactly cartridge fast, but it was no slower than any of the other PSX FF games, and far, far better than the FF Anthologies version of FFVI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
You could get around the long times to access the memory card by simply making a save memo as well. I only saved to the memory card either after something very hard, after playing for more than an hour, or if I was stopping.
The load times are obnoxious but as Vivi22 said, its nowhere near as bad as the VI port on Anthologies or the worst one which is Chrono Trigger in the Chronicles collection.
I guess if you want to really avoid all this there is always the option of getting a fan translated ROM of the game but at that point I feel you might as well just settle for one of the portable entries.
I actually beat that version of Chrono Trigger. Then I saw the new game plus option and walked away :|Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
It's my understanding that most people that play either have a guide or look on gamefaqs.com though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
GameFAQs: Final Fantasy IV (DS) Augment FAQ by mystery500
Some of these augments are ridiculous.
Don't know about Golbez but I remember having trouble my first time encountering a Red Dragon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
^ This.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
Except the requirements for a good chunk of those spells require you giving augments to characters that are going to leave long before the game actually gives you good ones. Its actually tough in the beginning cause you get a few really good ones but have to sacrifice them to Edward or Yang to get their skills and even then, you may not acquire the extra augments they give until much later.
To be honest, most of the augments are hardly game-breakers. Fast Talker is a great ability but it is hardly an "instant cast" ability. Omnicast has never worked properly for me and duel cast was a spell I had to hold onto cause I acquired long before I got the character I wanted to give it to. Not to mention the amount of augments your characters can actually use is very limited. Basically whatever you have on your attack menu (basically five slots) so you sometimes have to sacrifice good abilites for others.
Its really not that easy with a guide and and considering how nasty the enemies in the last two dungeons get, its all fair, the only ability that seems broken is Limit Break but since you only acquire it after you beat the game and can only use it in a new game + where all your characters are turned back to lv.1 its a moot issue cause you literally have to have end game levels to take advantage of it.
The augment system only becomes a game breaker when you start doing the new game+ since you finally start doubling up some abilites but most people probably won't play the game past the first run.
I wasn't even talking about the Limit Break one, but after reading the guide, I'm not sure what you mean by it not being that easy. Besides, most of the worst enemies are vulnerable to powerful status effects like Stop. The only thing not worth fighting there are the Dark Sages in my opinion.
I never new game+'d since I had too many other games I wanted to jump onto at the time, but maybe I will in the future, just for fun.
Then I have no idea what you mean by broken abilites cause most of them are really not bad. :confused:
I haven' partake of a new game plus myself but plan too once I get a playthrough of FFIX out of the way.
Alright let me recap. I only think some of them are broken, but I wasn't even aware there was that silly Limit Break one at first. But the main thing really is that they just watered down what challenge there is in the end half of the game based on what I saw from peeking at my friend's save. It reminded me a lot of going through Kefka's tower where everyone will have Curaga, Quick, Ultima, Arise, and Reraise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Its really not that bad, to be honest, quite a few of the augments either have some default weakness (Ultima is a twincast ability but using it involves using both of your healers Cecil and Rosa and even then you still have no guarantee they will use that attack, you're usually better off letting Cecil attack and Rosa use Holy). Many more are useful in the beginning but since most bosses have counterattack abilites and trying to use Rosa for anything but healing will get you killed, I'd say they make thing survivable rather than easy. I'll admit Zeromus was easier than I had anticipated but this is because he actually has a more complicated attack script that doesn't start with:
Big Bang - Spam relentlessly
So him not using his big gun attack so often actually makes him a bit easier though him countering crap with Meteor was hardly fun...
Really, the enemies like to use status effects far more often and they reduced your parties defensive abilites allowing enemies to pull off the same level of damage on you with high Magic. This is why Golbez was a pain cause you have two party members left and he's hitting you with -aga- level spells that are actually doing damage in the 1000's. Reviving party members is an act of god in that fight. Its hard enough keeping Rydia alive with Cecil's mediocre healing spells, let alone trying to actually revive someone in the battle. I had two characters above level 70 for this fight (stupid rare drops) one of them being Cecil and I was still getting killed.
I had a maxed out party by the end of the game and utilized the augments extensively and I would hardly say it made the final dungeon really any easier, a tad less frustrating perhaps, but hardly a cakewalk. Granted their is a way to make it easier but you would need to know about the way Augments affect your stats above level 70. Even then it would be terribly hard and frustrating to pull off without a guide and severe patience as it involves getting the crazy rare drops in the game cause after gaining a power leveled party you quickly figure out that your equipment tends to be more important than your stats at times.
Are you sure you aren't exaggerating just slightly? I really didn't experience any of this when I went through the end-game myself. But aside from that, having Counter, Dualcast, and Omnicast really seemed to change the end-game parts dramatically using my friend's save, and her characters weren't even leveled that much.
I probably played it more straight than you did. I have personal OCD things I like to do such as refusing to use Magic and items unless I have to. Still, at max levels I never felt my advantage was really all that great. Hell my max levels were sadly an accident as I gained them from actually acquiring all the special summons for Rydia. :sweatdrop:
No, I did have a rough time up until ironically I started fighting nothing but Behemoths and Blue Dragons. I usually don't waste my time with the Zemus monsters in the last stretch. I just had this bad luck of running into groups of Dark Wizards and half the time they surprised me. Once I got full equipment in there, they weren't so bad but getting to the equipment was another story.
Now that's just stupid, I wouldn't use a guide or walkthrough the first playthrough, that would ruin any game. But it's quite fun after playing through a game to look them up and see all the things that you missed and how easy the games could have been ;) But to say, oh I have every secret thing in a game cause I used a guide and grinded up my chracters and now the game is to easy! Is kinda.. silly if you ask me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalin
Yes, but sadly it seems that nowadays game developers assume that people will use guides on their first playthrough. I found that augments did make the game noticeably easier, but even with them it was considerably more difficult than the original incarnation.
The first time I picked up FFIV DS I plowed through for 10 hours loving it, then found out about how much I had missed by just playing through for fun and not consulting a guide before I started. I was so pissed I put the game down for six months before I could pick it up again. I started a new playthrough with a guide and got everything, but it wasn't the same.
You can say I should have just not gone with a guide the second time if it makes it less fun, but missing stuff in games is also very un-enjoyable. Crap like that forces me into a no-win scenario.
Fortunately I though everything about the remake was amazing, so I wasn't that upset on the whole.
That's the point of guides imo. When you have finished the game once on your own you can read about all the things you missed and strategys and etc and think "hey I wonder if I could do this.. and that" and then you play the game all over again just for the that. I know I've done that with quite a few games. Like creating the ultimate odd combinations of parties in FF1 or try not to use GFs in FF8. By using a guide for your first playthrough you ruin the chance to discover things on your own and to truley explore the game world. And at some points you can just say "enough" is enough. Like when I discovered all the things you cuould get in FF12 and I was like "No.. I'm not going to do that" it's quite fun to play the games on your own terms and create your own challanges and playstyles.Quote:
Originally Posted by VeloZer0
I hate having missable crap in games. Imo there should be no missable items. If you miss something there should be some way to get it at the end of the game. That would massively reduce the need for guides as you playthrough the game.
I love going through guides of games I have played in the past to look for stuff I missed or new strategy ideas. Hell, I've even gone through the entire formula guides for some games I really liked.
You would still need a guide to figure out where to go to get the items you missed though in the later parts ;)
I can't say I care about the missable items, I never do the "completionist file" on the first run cause that file tends to mean I won't touch the game for years. Different taste I guess.
After I am done the game I don't mind guides in the least. I find them very useful. I just don't like knowing there is stuff I am missing, or information that is not where in game. It is bad video game design if I am feeling pressured to consult outside material as I am playing through.
I see it less about needing a guide and more as elements hidden for the player to discover on their own. I feel it would be pretty easy to find all the augments in IV without a guide. I mean, its damn near impossible to collect every weapon and armor in the game without a guide and that goes for most old school titles as well. ;)
Really, you don't even need half the augments unless you want to take on the new optional bosses. I feel most games are design to be played more than once and experimented. Part of the joy I had playing through FFVI and Chrono Trigger is that I played those games so religiously I really did find elements that most needed a guide for. Hell, I've found equipment and items in both FFVII and Xenogears which no official guide even makes a mention of. I think guides are more of a deal thanks to GameFaqs and game stores always doing those package deals with new titles. If you ignore it, you can still game like its 1988 :cool:
I tink the graphics on the DS version are too childish and ruin the feel of the game, compared to the SP version which was similar to the SNES version.
I much prefer the original snes version because it is how the game was originally made without any of the added bells and whistles the hand held versions had. I voted for the anthology version simply because it is closest to the original (even though it's lags like and the saving takes ages).
Or if you have a Gamecube, you could purchase a GBA player for it, and be able to play GBA games on your TV. Or just download the original SNES version on the Wii Virtual Console.Quote:
Originally Posted by eestlinc
The GBA version spoiled me because of the 2 new dungeons and be able to select your party for the final battle. I have yet to play the remake, but as far I can tell, the GBA version is the best one of them all.
That was in Japan. In America it is Chrono Trigger that is plagued with long load times.Quote:
Originally Posted by qwertysaur
DS version is the game that introduced me to Final Fantasy. Awesome graphics (is it me, or is it sad that handhelds now outstrip the older full-size consoles in graphics?), extra stuff (I think), and... just multitudinous awesomnitude.
DS. It's like a PS1 game! ^_^
DS - it's shiny and ooze-worthy. Interpret that as you will.
I honestly feel that the DS version only improved on the perfection of the original. There are really no drawbacks except for being a bit more difficult and adding the augments which you can choose to not use.
I vote for all of the above.