This game is so overrated.

I've never seen a more overrated game than Final Fantasy VII. No, I'm not one of those people who will complain about graphics and such.

The characters weren't used very effectively. The story revolved around 3 characters. Cloud, Tifa, and Aeries (even after her death). The rest were ignored. There was no importance in the other characters. Cait Sith sacrificed himself, the sad music played, I was sad, then the game played with my feelings when another Cait Sith popped out of nowhere instantly. There were no bond or any type of relationship between the characters. When do you see a conversation or any sort of interactions between Cid and Vincent? Barret and Yuffie? Cid and Yuffie? Was there any sort of relationship between Cloud, who is supposed to be the main character, and any of the minor characters? The answer to all these questions is no. All these minor characters were used for nothing but battle purposes except Cid who provided the airship and Cait Sith who sacrificed himself. There was absolutely no character development.

Sephiroth was very over-rated. Yes he killed Aeries, but he accomplishes nothing. There are so many under-rated villains better than him, like Kuja, Kuja not only had power to destory an entire planet (which he did and sephiroth failed to do) but he proved that he was also very cunning as he was powerful. Whose the smarter villain? The guy who gets his own hands dirty or the guy who manipulates others to do the biddings for him? Yet, Sephiroth is like the king of villains in the Final Fantasy series because of his sword and long white hair.

VII is most likely a lot of people's first Final Fantasy game and people fell in love with it because it was a great game for it's time. Then VIII came out with the similar futurific theme. Then IX comes out and it goes back to the classical medieval theme that the ps1 generation isn't used to. People also aren't used to the happy, cartoonish art of IX either. The ps1 generation grew up with the emotional Cloud and Squall. Not the happy, cocky and upbeat Zidane. So a lot of these guys chose not to even play IX. This wasn't the only reason why IX was so underrated. IX came out right before the release of the PS2 and one of the first games out for PS2 was none other than FFX. So people bought the PS2 and ignored the FFIX and just decided to play X. And with all the advertisement and attention X was getting, X became the PS2 version of FFVII. I won't say X was overrated because X actually lived up to its hype. Good music, Great story. All the characters had their part in the story. So I believe X wasn't overrated but it wasn't underrated either. These are the reasons why you see VII and X (and a good amount of VIII) merchandises everywhere while IX was heavily ignored. I mean, seriously. You go to anime conventions and there are at least 59135913581 people dressed as Cloud or Vincent. You play Kingdom Hearts and you see characters like Cloud, Aeries, Yuffie, Cid, Squall, Seifer, Wakka, Selphie, Tidus, Auron, oh and Sephiroth's overrated ass WOULD be there also...in both games. While the only character from IX to make it to Kingdom Hearts was Vivi, and only because people demanded it. You go on replica sword websites and you'll see Cloud's Buster Sword, Squall and Seifer's gunblades, Tidus's water sword, and even Auron's sword. I would have loved to see Zidane's double edge sword there, but wait...Zidane's from IX. I'm surprised they included IX characters in Dissidia. I mean, thanks for not COMPLETELY excluding IX. But of course in the trailers, I would know that the figure that came out of that volcano would be Sephiroth before his image is shown. I'm sorry but...VII is just so overrated.

As you can tell, I'm a huge IX fan.

Yuffie got the Wutai side quest which we get to know her story more.
And so is Vincent, maybe not much but there is the crystal cave where you get his final limit break which you will know more about him?
Also those two are optional characters in the game btw. The two of them are also not shown in the ending FMV.:bigsmile:

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The characters weren't used very effectively. The story revolved around 3 characters. Cloud, Tifa, and Aeries (even after her death). The rest were ignored.

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We have a massive side quest about Yuffie, meet her father and learn how Wutai was plundered by Shin-Ra. We learn about Vincent's past with the Turks and Lucrecia. We visit Red XIII hometown and learn about his father and his race.

We learn about every single character in the game, apart from Cait, who is really Reeve. It is very unfair to say it all revolves around 3 characters when it plainly does not. Obviously they are the MAIN characters, but that is to be expected. You can't tell an effective story if you are constantly finding silly reasons to get them all involved.

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There was no importance in the other characters. Cait Sith sacrificed himself, the sad music played, I was sad, then the game played with my feelings when another Cait Sith popped out of nowhere instantly.

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This is to do with the silly translation. It is much clearer when you know the actual dialogue.

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Was there any sort of relationship between Cloud, who is supposed to be the main character, and any of the minor characters?

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Cloud isn't supposed to have. He is a cold hearted mercenary. Making him suddenly social machine 2000 would not be his character anymore than it would Squall. Also, there is a limit to how much story telling you can do in a game.

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There was absolutely no character development.

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This is simply inaccurate. You find out all about Yuffie and her peoples past, you visit her home town. Same with Red XIII. Same with Barret (there is even dialogue about his wife and why he hates shin-ra). You learn about Vinent and his past (again having too much dialogue with Vincent or an Auron damages their character). Every single character had a full backstory except reeve/cait sith.

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Sephiroth was very over-rated. Yes he killed Aeries, but he accomplishes nothing.

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That might just have to do with the fact he was stopped by your party, which was the object of the entire game. He almost destroyed the planet.

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The guy who gets his own hands dirty or the guy who manipulates others to do the biddings for him? Yet, Sephiroth is like the king of villains in the Final Fantasy series because of his sword and long white hair.

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No. It is because his character is cool, the music is cool, the story he had was very well written. His dialogue was also good and he did have a purpose. He wanted to be God and was bitter at beng merely an experiement. he lost his mind.

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VII is most likely a lot of people's first Final Fantasy game and people fell in love with it because it was a great game for it's time.

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A story does not age.

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As you can tell, I'm a huge IX fan

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A game that had far less character development than VII and far less dialogue overall.

FFVII isn't anywhere near being the worst game ever, but it isn't anywhere near being the best game ever, so it definitely is quite overrated.

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I've never seen a more overrated game than Final Fantasy VII.

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I don't know, have you seen Guitar Hero?

Anyway, as my favorite Final Fantasy being IX, I may be a little biases, but I won't say I don't like FFVII, I did somewhat despite the fact that it was merely the epic sword fight of a pathological liar and a momma's boy, the Materia system was good and at least gave you visual representation of what materia was and how it worked, unlike FFVIII, what does 100 Curagas or 100 Scans look like? They have to take on some form to collect them.

I will that if there is anything completely and terribly wrong about it it's the fan base, not saying if you like it you're pitiful, if you like it that's great. I'm talking about people who not only make Internet shrines of FFVII, but half their house is a real life shrine of FFVII, people that start families with FFVII as a base for it and there are people who got married over this game, people that try to turn a PS1 game into a religion. That's what is terribly wrong, of course I could be considered a hypocrite because when I was younger, FFIX was big deal to me, I fan ficted and everything, but as I got older, the most I've done recently with FFIX is checked out the script and saw how I could parody making FFVII + II, a parody that acts on the principle if "FFVII" is in the name, people will blindly fall down before the parody fan fiction thread and worship it.

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We have a massive side quest about Yuffie, meet her father and learn how Wutai was plundered by Shin-Ra. We learn about Vincent's past with the Turks and Lucrecia. We visit Red XIII hometown and learn about his father and his race.

We learn about every single character in the game, apart from Cait, who is really Reeve. It is very unfair to say it all revolves around 3 characters when it plainly does not. Obviously they are the MAIN characters, but that is to be expected. You can't tell an effective story if you are constantly finding silly reasons to get them all involved.

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Lol. So it takes a measly side quest to know about these characters. Vincent's Lucretia sidequest was so minute and unrelated to the whole story. In Final Fantasy IX, everyone's story was part of the main story. You didn't have to go out of your way to find out about these characters. They naturally blended in with the main quest. IX did a great job getting all the characters involved and still had a great story. Main characters in a Final Fantasy story should relate to all the other characters. That's what makes them leaders.

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This is to do with the silly translation. It is much clearer when you know the actual dialogue.

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The problem was that they tried to make this scene so sad and emotional. If we knew a little about Cait Sith and his story, it could've made his sacrifice more powerful. It's like they tried to play it too safe by having the one character with no back story or past or anything the sacrificial lamb. Honestly, it would have been better if the new Cait Sith never came along. It would have been a little more emotional.

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Cloud isn't supposed to have. He is a cold hearted mercenary. Making him suddenly social machine 2000 would not be his character anymore than it would Squall. Also, there is a limit to how much story telling you can do in a game.

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I'm not saying he should become social out of nowhere. But in a good storytelling game, we should be able to see a gradual change in the character. It's called character development. No character should end the same way he began.

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This is simply inaccurate. You find out all about Yuffie and her peoples past, you visit her home town. Same with Red XIII. Same with Barret (there is even dialogue about his wife and why he hates shin-ra). You learn about Vinent and his past (again having too much dialogue with Vincent or an Auron damages their character). Every single character had a full backstory except reeve/cait sith.

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I understand that each character has their own story, but I want to see some change in the character. That's what character development is supposed to be. It's like they all have the same motive all the way to the end of the game. In Final Fantasy IX, we see how each characters are not the same as they were. We see how traveling with Zidane gives them a new outlook on life. We see how Zidane fixes each character's flaws. That's the type of impact a main character should have. Yes, too many dialogue for certain characters can ruin their whole character. These characters are usually the type that has very little to say but when they say it, it's a very deep and meaningful sentence.

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That might just have to do with the fact he was stopped by your party, which was the object of the entire game. He almost destroyed the planet.

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The fact that he was stopped by the party before he accomplished anything just shows how overrated he was. Kuja's accomplishments overshadows Sephiroths accomplishments. He destroyed Alexandria, Cleyra, Burmecia, and Lindblum. 3 of them he used someone else to do it. He achieved the power of Trance. He killed Garland. If that wasn't enough, he destroyed an entire planet. And after all the havoc he released on Gaia, the party stopped him before he delivered the final blow. See the difference? How a villain looks or dresses or what theme song he comes out to shouldn't make a villain. His accomplishment should. Which is why I say Sephiroth is overrated.

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A game that had far less character development than VII and far less dialogue overall.

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Less character development? Ok. The main character was involved in all the characters problems. He made their problem his own. Amarant had a whole new outlook on teamwork. Steiner changed his loyalty towards one person into a whole nation. Eiko, who was always alone, found the meaning of friendship and happiness. Quina who was isolated in her little marsh faced his/her fears and went out into the world and experienced many different things (and Quina is supposed to be the Cait Sith of FFIX). That's what you call character development. Dialogues? We see these changes in characters through their dialogues. The meaningful dialogue between Freya and Amarant (rivals) during their fight with one of the 4 fiends, showed the change Freya saw in her rival Amarant. Or any dialogues between Steiner and Vivi shows the whole master and servant relationship between the two. The comedic dialogue with Quina and Vivi or Quina and ANYBODY for that matter. Or the dislike Steiner shows Zidane through his dialogues and movements. See how not one character is secluded unlike Final Fantasy VII?

That's usually what its detractors say.

It certainly has more character development than FFXII has for example...

There's nothing wrong with the story primarily being centered around 3 characters with some info about the rest.

It's not that different from most rpgs in that approach.

So I don't follow the tc's reasoning.

As it is I feel it's likely the game will be remade at some point due to the high liklihood it would made Square a lot of money.

So if the tc would like some changes made to any remake he can make some recommendations.

I would have to say that perhaps the emphasis on FFIX would be best discussed in FFIX, as FFVII isn't the only game that overshadows FFIX, There's FFX, KH, and even FFXII so I've been told. The reason I mention such is this thread is steering away from FFVII and into FFIX, a fine concept, because I have thought of declaring war on the games that overshadow FFIX but it's not so much FF games, as it is the fanboys and fangirls, yeah, I'm going on my soap box about the fan base. Everyone knows it's a great game, as many Final Fantasy games are, I was still shocked at the sight of Advent Children coming into play, it's good from what all I've seen, I haven't seen it in its entirety but what makes FFVII SO great that it deserves what six great games before it and four great games after it (I don't count FFXI because it's on going as an MMO, and FFX-2...yeah, that never happened.) didn't get?

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I would have to say that perhaps the emphasis on FFIX would be best discussed in FFIX, as FFVII isn't the only game that overshadows FFIX, There's FFX, KH, and even FFXII so I've been told. The reason I mention such is this thread is steering away from FFVII and into FFIX, a fine concept, because I have thought of declaring war on the games that overshadow FFIX but it's not so much FF games, as it is the fanboys and fangirls, yeah, I'm going on my soap box about the fan base. Everyone knows it's a great game, as many Final Fantasy games are, I was still shocked at the sight of Advent Children coming into play, it's good from what all I've seen, I haven't seen it in its entirety but what makes FFVII SO great that it deserves what six great games before it and four great games after it (I don't count FFXI because it's on going as an MMO, and FFX-2...yeah, that never happened.) didn't get?

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I see that it is swaying to a more FFIX topic, but this is where I can have a discussion and arguments with FFVII fans who overrate VII. In the FFIX section, I feel like all I'm going to get is agreements from people. I want to see some disagreements and have debates with them and such, which is one of the reason I believe forums are for.

But I still want to know what's so great about FFVII for it to get Advent Children, where the six before it didn't? I understand IV's getting one, took them long enough.

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The characters weren't used very effectively. The story revolved around 3 characters. Cloud, Tifa, and Aeries (even after her death). The rest were ignored. There was no importance in the other characters.

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I suppose it's easy to miss Barrett at the beginning of the game, Barrett at North Corel, Red XIII at Cosmo Canyon and in the Gi Cave, Cid at Rocket Town and in the rocket... all of which were points of fairly major development focused on that character. Also, Yuffie and Vincent were optional characters, so there wasn't going to be much interaction later in the game -- and Vincent, regardless, had his fair share of development.

FF7 was not the best FF, but it's a decent game. My biggest critique of it is the story development.

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I suppose it's easy to miss Barrett at the beginning of the game, Barrett at North Corel, Red XIII at Cosmo Canyon and in the Gi Cave, Cid at Rocket Town and in the rocket... all of which were points of fairly major development focused on that character. Also, Yuffie and Vincent were optional characters, so there wasn't going to be much interaction later in the game -- and Vincent, regardless, had his fair share of development.

FF7 was not the best FF, but it's a decent game. My biggest critique of it is the story development.

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read my next post.

Most of it was irrelevant to my post, but there was:

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I understand that each character has their own story, but I want to see some change in the character.

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Did you even pay attention to Barret, Cid's and Red XIII's stories? Barret the hardass getting worn down and self-loathing with his perceived mistake, having to get his confidence back? Cid hating Shera for ruining his life, ultimately realizing why that happened? Red XIII hating his father for the perceived cowardice, learning the truth? That isn't even including the main story with Cloud and Tifa's development.

There are plenty of valid criticisms of FF7, but you seem to be trying to just nitpick at everything, including making things up where they don't exist.

I don`t get it. A lot of people like VII, and you beg to differ. Therefore, you call this game overrated?

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Did you even pay attention to Barret, Cid's and Red XIII's stories? Barret the hardass getting worn down and self-loathing with his perceived mistake, having to get his confidence back? Cid hating Shera for ruining his life, ultimately realizing why that happened? Red XIII hating his father for the perceived cowardice, learning the truth? That isn't even including the main story with Cloud and Tifa's development.

There are plenty of valid criticisms of FF7, but you seem to be trying to just nitpick at everything, including making things up where they don't exist.

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I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. I'm not talking about misunderstandings one character had with another person. I'm talking about their character. What they believed in. Stuff like that.

People overrate the story, the characters, and espiecially Sephiroth. I think I covered why this guy was overrated. In fact, I don't even consider this nitpicking. I haven't even talked about the story, music, battle system and such. I stated 2 problems I had with this game. Characters and the villain. Oh wait, they can go together, so one problem.

Ok, there definitely are a lot of people who thought VII was insane because it was their first RPG, who didn't play FFIX for arbitrary reasons, etc. But you honestly shouldn't sweat over their opinions.

Quite frankly, a lot of true, honest "gamers" (eugh, i hate labelling myself) love this game and can give you a substantial analysis of why they feel it stands on its own merits.

But one thing you can't deny is that it had an impact on gaming. If it wasn't for Resident Evil, Final Fantasy VII, and Metal Gear Solid, gaming would've been held back a couple years.

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Originally Posted by the_sandman

I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. I'm not talking about misunderstandings one character had with another person. I'm talking about their character. What they believed in. Stuff like that.

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What you haven't explained is why all those subplots don't qualify as just that. Your response here is just one big No True Scotsman fallacy.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

But one thing you can't deny is that it had an impact on gaming. If it wasn't for Resident Evil, Final Fantasy VII, and Metal Gear Solid, gaming would've been held back a couple years.

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Its influence is not necessarily a measure of its worth as a game.

i'm just gonna say one thing to the FFVII basher and leave it at that... FFIX was just a tribute to previous Fianl Fantasies before it including VII & VIII, take that as you may...

please quit sipping on the haterade, i don't care for FFIX but i don't go into the FFIX Sub-Forums and bash it with fallacies, looking for debate is one thing but you openly admited to looking for arguments and that constitutes as trolling...

There's nothing wrong with criticism. A forum for discussing the game is just that: for discussion, both positive and negative. My problem is that some of the reasoning for one of his main pieces of criticism is rather poorly supported.

Well you keep comparing Kuja to Sephiroth and I don't understand why. They arn't competing with each other, they're two different people in different stories, with different characters and situations.

Hell, I bet if Sephiroth had done as much as Kuja you'd complain he's just a rubbish copy.

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Originally Posted by the_sandman

I'm talking about their character. What they believed in. Stuff like that.

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Have you played FFVII?
Cloud, Tifa and Aeris are all the main characters, so I don't need to go there.

-Cait Sith starts out as a spy but changes sides.
-Yuffie starts off as a thief who joins your party to steal your Materia, after she does that and re-joins you, she sticks with the party to the end.
-Barret believes that Shinra are the main enemy of the planet, and leads a resistance movement to stop them. After meeting Cloud he realizes Sephiroth is the biggest threat to the planet and steps down as a leader to help Cloud defeat him, (plus his whole side story with his home town and Dyne).
-Red XIII originally just goes with the party as a means to get home, but with some convincing from his Grandfather (and an interesting side story), he chooses to help you.

I'm pretty much just reciting the story now, and I could go on. But if you don't call that character change and development then I don't know what you do.
Besides, if they had changed exactly like in IX then you would be ranting and raving that IX was just another VII.

I'm not hating on anything. I never said I hate FFVII. You can't deny the fact that its actually pretty fun playing FFVII. What I hate is how overrated VII and how underrated IX is. I didn't mean to make it sound like there was absolutely no character development in VII. All RPG have some type of character development. But take everything what Crop said and compare that to IX's character. Look at the character development in IX's character. Amarant, Steiner, Eiko, Dagger, Vivi, Freya and even Quina. Pick out one person out of this list who hasn't changed for the better. Whose issues haven't been solved? Did Zidane not involve himself in each and every one of their issues? Was anyone left out? Ask yourselves the same questions with the FFVII characters. And just incase people are wondering why I'm comparing VII and IX or Kuja and Sephiroth together is because, like I said before, I believe the underrated IX is better than the overrated VI and these are my reasons. That's was I was saying.

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Originally Posted by the_sandman

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Did you even pay attention to Barret, Cid's and Red XIII's stories? Barret the hardass getting worn down and self-loathing with his perceived mistake, having to get his confidence back? Cid hating Shera for ruining his life, ultimately realizing why that happened? Red XIII hating his father for the perceived cowardice, learning the truth? That isn't even including the main story with Cloud and Tifa's development.

There are plenty of valid criticisms of FF7, but you seem to be trying to just nitpick at everything, including making things up where they don't exist.

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I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. I'm not talking about misunderstandings one character had with another person. I'm talking about their character. What they believed in. Stuff like that.

People overrate the story, the characters, and espiecially Sephiroth. I think I covered why this guy was overrated. In fact, I don't even consider this nitpicking. I haven't even talked about the story, music, battle system and such. I stated 2 problems I had with this game. Characters and the villain. Oh wait, they can go together, so one problem.

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No, you stated that there was no character development which isn't true. You stated that it only revolves around 3 characters which isn't true and you stated that because the main story "is around 3 characters"....the game is poor, which isn't true. In fact the game is around more than 3. The only 2 that you can remotely say were underdeveloped are Reeve and Vincent (and the latter, I think it was Nomura who said this is deliberate, since giving him more dialogue takes away from how mysterious and cool he becomes).

The thing is, you then cite FF9 as your favourite but this has less dialogue overall, less characters and less development of those characters.

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Originally Posted by the_sandman

Yes he killed Aeries, but he accomplishes nothing.

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So let me see...

Regenerating his entire body + absorbing Lifestream + controling Jenova + killing President Shinra and everyone in the Shinra building + killing a main character + mentally torturing the main hero + summoning Meteor + waking-up the WEAPONS + holding back Holy + destroying Midgar + creating Geostigma + corrupting part of the Lifestream = nothing. :roll2

Now I would have liked the game to end with Sephiroth destroying the planet...that would have been new, cool and totally unexpected.

But most don't like that. So when you compare his accomplishments to other villain's, it is impossible to expect that he fulfilled his main goal.

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Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2

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Originally Posted by the_sandman

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Did you even pay attention to Barret, Cid's and Red XIII's stories? Barret the hardass getting worn down and self-loathing with his perceived mistake, having to get his confidence back? Cid hating Shera for ruining his life, ultimately realizing why that happened? Red XIII hating his father for the perceived cowardice, learning the truth? That isn't even including the main story with Cloud and Tifa's development.

There are plenty of valid criticisms of FF7, but you seem to be trying to just nitpick at everything, including making things up where they don't exist.

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I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. I'm not talking about misunderstandings one character had with another person. I'm talking about their character. What they believed in. Stuff like that.

People overrate the story, the characters, and espiecially Sephiroth. I think I covered why this guy was overrated. In fact, I don't even consider this nitpicking. I haven't even talked about the story, music, battle system and such. I stated 2 problems I had with this game. Characters and the villain. Oh wait, they can go together, so one problem.

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No, you stated that there was no character development which isn't true. You stated that it only revolves around 3 characters which isn't true and you stated that because the main story "is around 3 characters"....the game is poor, which isn't true. In fact the game is around more than 3. The only 2 that you can remotely say were underdeveloped are Reeve and Vincent (and the latter, I think it was Nomura who said this is deliberate, since giving him more dialogue takes away from how mysterious and cool he becomes).

The thing is, you then cite FF9 as your favourite but this has less dialogue overall, less characters and less development of those characters.

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I'm guessing you haven't read my last post.

and it's all because FFVII is overrated.

I don't think the popularity of FFVII causes people to think less of FFIX. If you like FFIX that's fine.I think FFVII is a better game overall but that's just my opinion.If you feel otherwise then be happy with it.Don't feel you have to knock down FFVII to build up FFIX.

:cool:

Your face is overrated.

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Originally Posted by The Crystal

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Originally Posted by the_sandman

Yes he killed Aeries, but he accomplishes nothing.

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So let me see...

Regenerating his entire body + absorbing Lifestream + controling Jenova + killing President Shinra and everyone in the Shinra building + killing a main character + mentally torturing the main hero + summoning Meteor + waking-up the WEAPONS + holding back Holy + destroying Midgar + creating Geostigma + corrupting part of the Lifestream = nothing. :roll2

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Haven't read one of your posts in a while. I love it :choc:

FFIX isn't underrated. It received near universal acclaim and was considered the swan song of the PSOne - it was a reason why a lot of us were ok with the fact that we couldn't find PS2's anywhere - we didn't need them.

Now as far as whether some people arbitrarily discounted it and never tried it because of silly reasons like "the main character has a tail" or "it was too kiddy", that's another matter.

This game needs a sequel. :bigsmile:

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Originally Posted by ANGRYWOLF

I don't think the popularity of FFVII causes people to think less of FFIX.

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You might not think it, but it's true. A lot of people won't give some games the time of day just because it's not popular, mainstream, they haven't heard of it etc. A guy I used to affiliate with was like that. Met one guy who wouldn't play FF but would play Paper Mario or Super Mario RPG. I questioned why he wouldn't play any of them after I told them that Square the same company that made Super Mario RPG made Final Fantasy. His response was something like "Well, it's Mario." I agree that VII is overrated. My problems were with the story as well and the characters.

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Originally Posted by The Crystal

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Originally Posted by the_sandman

Yes he killed Aeries, but he accomplishes nothing.

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So let me see...

Regenerating his entire body + absorbing Lifestream + controling Jenova + killing President Shinra and everyone in the Shinra building + killing a main character + mentally torturing the main hero + summoning Meteor + waking-up the WEAPONS + holding back Holy + destroying Midgar + creating Geostigma + corrupting part of the Lifestream = nothing. :roll2

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Ok. If you want to go into depth like that and point out every little detail, we'll do that. Before I begin, I just want to let you know that before, I was just pointing out the main accomplishments Kuja did, but now I'm going to get into all the minute tiny itty bitty details as well as the huge things he did.

Arrite. Here is the list of what Kuja did.

- Sent Zidane to Gaia so he wouldn't grow more powerful than him
- Create black mages for his evil purposes
- Created black waltz trio
- Created advanced weapons for warfare and supplied them to Queen Brahne
- Manipulated Queen Brahne
- Used Queen Brahne and the black mages to destroy Burmecia
- Advised Queen Brahne to kidnap and extract eidolons from Garnet who then used Odin to destroy Cleyra
- Under that same advice, Queen Brahne used Atomos to destory Lindblum
- Planted the lifa tree so it can supply the mist to create black mages.
- Survives Bahamut's attack easily and uses the same summon against its summoner, Queen Brahne, and betrays and kills her and her entire fleet.
- Uses Bahamut to destroy Alexandria.
- Kidnaps Eiko
- Obtained the power of Trance
- Defeats your party
- Kills Garland
- Destroys Terra (which by the way is a whole entire planet) easily.
- Defeats your party again when he casts Ultima.

Sephiroths overrated @ss got nothing.

So you base judgement on a character based on what they actually achieved in the story? Even though that has absolutely nothing to do with how good a character is and has absolutely no bearing on how to rate a story.

How would we ever rate Quina Quen? haha

You have to look at different things, like motives, strengths, and likeability.

I believe Sephiroth blindly follows a doctrine he created of studying research. Kuja finds Garland and Zidane a threat so above all his plans is kill them. Kuja is more logical, yet Sephiroth is more crazy.

Sephiroth looks more like a dude than Kuja, but Sephiroth's a momma's boy.

Kuja is tough, but Sephiroth is tougher and his Super Nova is a more valid threat to his opponents than Kuja's attack.

Both villains have great strengths and weaknesses.

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So you base judgement on a character based on what they actually achieved in the story? Even though that has absolutely nothing to do with how good a character is and has absolutely no bearing on how to rate a story.

How would we ever rate Quina Quen? haha

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I base villains on what they achieved in the story. Characters as in your party, I base them off of how they are developed.

This is why I don't compare them. There are things I like and dislike about all of the titles, but they're trying to be different, not improve the same formula. The fanbase for VII is huge, and they're pretty fanatical. In that regard, it is over-rated. But it holds its own against games like IX, which is far better received by the less fanatical gamers but not as widely acclaimed.

It's unfortunate that people think they have to pick one FF that's better than the rest.

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This is why I don't compare them. There are things I like and dislike about all of the titles, but they're trying to be different, not improve the same formula. The fanbase for VII is huge, and they're pretty fanatical. In that regard, it is over-rated. But it holds its own against games like IX, which is far better received by the less fanatical gamers but not as widely acclaimed.

It's unfortunate that people think they have to pick one FF that's better than the rest.

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Sorry, but there's always going to be people like that, and I'm one of them.

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Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2

How would we ever rate Quina Quen? haha

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Beyond words. :quina: Quina needs no action to show the amazingness :quina:

@topic: VII is not the best final fantasy IMO, but it is still a fun game to play :choc:

I actually think that Sephiroth is overrated.SO overrated beyond words.
The only huge thing he does,that actually affects us emotionally,is when he kills Aerith.
He's just a smurfed up guy that went mad.

One thing that doesn't make much sense is how most of the party joined the hunt for Sephiroth just for the hell of it.
I undestand how Vincent joined...but how about Yuffie and Cid? What relationship or connection they have with Sephiroth?
Cid's hate for Shinra doesn't justify how the party hunts Sephiroth to the end of the world and he follows them.

But the rest is cool,I think is a great game with fun sidequests and I like the characters personalities.
I'm not a fan of overlyhappy/everything is gonna be alright characters such as Tidus.I much prefer "smurf you" characters like Cloud and Squall.

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Originally Posted by line_genrou

I actually think that Sephiroth is overrated.SO overrated beyond words.
The only huge thing he does,that actually affects us emotionally,is when he kills Aerith.
He's just a smurfed up guy that went mad.

One thing that doesn't make much sense is how most of the party joined the hunt for Sephiroth just for the hell of it.
I undestand how Vincent joined...but how about Yuffie and Cid? What relationship or connection they have with Sephiroth?
Cid's hate for Shinra doesn't justify how the party hunts Sephiroth to the end of the world and he follows them.

But the rest is cool,I think is a great game with fun sidequests and I like the characters personalities.
I'm not a fan of overlyhappy/everything is gonna be alright characters such as Tidus.I much prefer "smurf you" characters like Cloud and Squall.

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Exactly what I'm trying to say. The characters in VII have their stories, but it seems like their stories doesn't relate to Cloud's goal.

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Originally Posted by the_sandman

Ok. If you want to go into depth like that and point out every little detail, we'll do that. Before I begin, I just want to let you know that before, I was just pointing out the main accomplishments Kuja did, but now I'm going to get into all the minute tiny itty bitty details as well as the huge things he did.

Arrite. Here is the list of what Kuja did.

- Sent Zidane to Gaia so he wouldn't grow more powerful than him
- Create black mages for his evil purposes
- Created black waltz trio
- Created advanced weapons for warfare and supplied them to Queen Brahne
- Manipulated Queen Brahne
- Used Queen Brahne and the black mages to destroy Burmecia
- Advised Queen Brahne to kidnap and extract eidolons from Garnet who then used Odin to destroy Cleyra
- Under that same advice, Queen Brahne used Atomos to destory Lindblum
- Planted the lifa tree so it can supply the mist to create black mages.
- Survives Bahamut's attack easily and uses the same summon against its summoner, Queen Brahne, and betrays and kills her and her entire fleet.
- Uses Bahamut to destroy Alexandria.
- Kidnaps Eiko
- Obtained the power of Trance
- Defeats your party
- Kills Garland
- Destroys Terra (which by the way is a whole entire planet) easily.
- Defeats your party again when he casts Ultima.

Sephiroths overrated @ss got nothing.

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Every little detail? lol
I didn't even mention the Midgar-Zolom he killed, or the barrier he created around the Crater, or the way he tortured the characters with telekinesis before the final battle...

You are just pissed because you said(in more than a single post) that he accomplished nothing, and I proved you wrong.
Well, deal with it. ;)

And BTW Kuja didn't plant the Iifa Tree. Garland did it.

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Every little detail? lol
I didn't even mention the Midgar-Zolom he killed, or the barrier he created around the Crater, or the way he tortured the characters with telekinesis before the final battle...

You are just pissed because you said(in more than a single post) that he accomplished nothing, and I proved you wrong.
Well, deal with it.

And BTW Kuja didn't plant the Iifa Tree. Garland did it.

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Compared to Kuja's accomplishments...trust me, Sephiroth accomplished nothing. Maybe Sephiroth should go destroy a planet or something. Then he can compete.

That. Sounded. Childess.

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Originally Posted by the_sandman

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Every little detail? lol
I didn't even mention the Midgar-Zolom he killed, or the barrier he created around the Crater, or the way he tortured the characters with telekinesis before the final battle...

You are just pissed because you said(in more than a single post) that he accomplished nothing, and I proved you wrong.
Well, deal with it.

And BTW Kuja didn't plant the Iifa Tree. Garland did it.

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Compared to Kuja's accomplishments...trust me, Sephiroth accomplished nothing. Maybe Sephiroth should go destroy a planet or something. Then he can compete.

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That's a pretty stupid thing to say. Basically, every villain in the FF series has to destroy a planet to be a good villain?

You know what else was strange? How you said that Sephiroth hadn't accomplished anything, then someone listed a bunch, then you just totally ignored it and listed Kuja's accomplishments even though no one said he didn't have any. You're the only one compairing the two, everyone else is just saying you're not giving Sephiroth enough credit - even if you think he's overrated.

No. When I said "Sephiroth accomplished nothing", the guy took it too literal. As if I meant he actually accomplished nothing. Then he goes on and lists what Sephiroth did. As if he didn't take a second to think "hmmm maybe he's exaggerating." I know what Sephiroth did. It's just that Kuja is just more intimidating. Sephiroth does the basic attack and high level magic :bou::bou::bou::bou:. Kuja does ALL that but he actually uses his head too. He manipulates people, while Sephiroth just goes around and does things on his own. Which is why I'm saying the underrated Kuja is more powerful then the overrated Sephiroth. I'm not saying Sephiroth is not a good villain. He's just not as good as people make him out to be...aka overrated. My last post was a joke post. Calm down. In fact, forget it. Just take everything I say literally. It'll be more fun this way.

Kefka.

Alright, everyone lets step back, take a couple breaths, and repeat five times, "their just video games".

the_sandman, Sephiroth did manipulate people, certainly not on the scale as Kuja, but he did. As for Sephiroth going around doing stuff himself; he's encased in a mako crystal thingy the entire game, the party really interacts with pieces of Jenova that Sephiroth forces to take his image and do his bidding.

So I'm not misunderstood, I'm not claiming any villian is better than the other. Its all a matter of opinion so I say to you my Final Fantasy brothers and sisters to lay done your anger. Lay down your hate and take a hit of this peace pipe in the name of love.

*begins to abuse an illegal narcotic in the corner of the room just as the police are taking the door down*.

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Originally Posted by the AJman

Alright, everyone lets step back, take a couple breaths, and repeat five times, "their just video games".

the_sandman, Sephiroth did manipulate people, certainly not on the scale as Kuja, but he did. As for Sephiroth going around doing stuff himself; he's encased in a mako crystal thingy the entire, the party really interacts with pieces of Jenova that Sephiroth forces to take his image and do his bidding.

So I'm not misunderstood, I'm not claiming any villian is better than the othe. Its all a matter of opinion so I say to you my Final Fantasy brothers and sisters to lay done your anger. Lay down your hate and take a hit of this peace pipe in the name of love.

*begins to abuse an illegal narcotic in the corner of the room just as the police as taking the door down*.

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no. smurf that. get this argument poppin.

Don't evade the swear filter, the_sandman. -Rantzien

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Originally Posted by the_sandman

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Originally Posted by the AJman

Alright, everyone lets step back, take a couple breaths, and repeat five times, "their just video games".

the_sandman, Sephiroth did manipulate people, certainly not on the scale as Kuja, but he did. As for Sephiroth going around doing stuff himself; he's encased in a mako crystal thingy the entire, the party really interacts with pieces of Jenova that Sephiroth forces to take his image and do his bidding.

So I'm not misunderstood, I'm not claiming any villian is better than the othe. Its all a matter of opinion so I say to you my Final Fantasy brothers and sisters to lay done your anger. Lay down your hate and take a hit of this peace pipe in the name of love.

*begins to abuse an illegal narcotic in the corner of the room just as the police as taking the door down*.

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no. smurf that. get this argument poppin.

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Well for a start, it's a debate. And second, there's no point. When someone comes up with a good point that counters yours, you just say "I'm just kidding, don't take it literally". Either join in and counter those posts with your own, or don't bother posting.

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Well for a start, it's a debate. And second, there's no point. When someone comes up with a good point that counters yours, you just say "I'm just kidding, don't take it literally". Either join in and counter those posts with your own, or don't bother posting.

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I want you to read his post.

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You are just pissed because you said(in more than a single post) that he accomplished nothing, and I proved you wrong.
Well, deal with it.

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He said he proved me wrong because I said Seph accomplished nothing and he showed me proof that he did in fact accomplish things. Isn't what I said to this basically a counter to this? I mean, yes I said Sephiroth accomplished nothing, but I was exaggerating. If you wanted me to break it down for you then fine. Sephiroth accomplished little compared to Kuja. But you know what? I'm just going to exaggerate and use sarcasm everywhere now, and you guys are going to take it so seriously too.

Sephiroth, maannn, this guy...definately not overrated. Man, we need to showcase this guy more because obviously, he's not being showcased enough. We need to put this guy on Kingdom Hearts III and make him like...the most powerful guy in the game because we so didn't do that enough in I and II.

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Originally Posted by the_sandman

I'm just going to exaggerate and use sarcasm everywhere now, and you guys are going to take it so seriously too.

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Why would you do that, because you got proved wrong?

It's easy to say you were exaggerating now that he put forward good points and ousted yours.

i'd rather play ffx-2 than ffvii

and i despise x-2

http://i32.:bou::bou::bou::bou::bou:...u:/2vjueyb.jpg

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Originally Posted by Crop

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Originally Posted by the_sandman

I'm just going to exaggerate and use sarcasm everywhere now, and you guys are going to take it so seriously too.

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Why would you do that, because you got proved wrong?

It's easy to say you were exaggerating now that he put forward good points and ousted yours.

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You're right, man. I was so serious when I wrote this.

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Compared to Kuja's accomplishments...trust me, Sephiroth accomplished nothing. Maybe Sephiroth should go destroy a planet or something. Then he can compete.

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I mean, I sounded so serious there huh? Lol, Sephiroth is amazing guys. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to call him overrated when clearly...he isn't. Sephiroth is badass. Trenchcoat and everything. Nothing is better than this guy. Sorry.

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Originally Posted by the_sandman

It's just that Kuja is just more intimidating.

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You're right. Cross dressers are intimidating.

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Originally Posted by Guardian XIII

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Originally Posted by the_sandman

It's just that Kuja is just more intimidating.

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You're right. Cross dressers are intimidating.

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Quoted for truth.

I don't consider one game having anything to do with another, if you exclude the mythical links the game designers claim exist...
A-Bhed Shinra in FFX-2 for example supposedly being linked to FFVII. And similar claims.

Of course you had certain design teams led by certain people, Sakguichi, Toriyama, Matsuno, etc etc doing certain FF games. Now with some of those people gone from Square you wonder if the current team will have a monopoly on future games and if there will be less diversity/less style changes in future FFs.

I can like a FF game better than another.But the cause is whether than game appeals to my individual taste and not something nebulous and prejudicial.

:)

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Originally Posted by Guardian XIII

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Originally Posted by the_sandman

It's just that Kuja is just more intimidating.

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You're right. Cross dressers are intimidating.

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Wow. I thought I was supposed to be the immature one here. I wish I can be immature and get away with it.

The true isn't immature, crossdressers don't scare people.

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Originally Posted by the_sandman

I thought I was supposed to be the immature one here.

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Don't worry, you still are.

Your argument is that VII is too hyped up. It seems like you're trying to take that hype and give it to IX. If you want to prove to me that VII is too hyped up, which you really don't need to but for arguments sake, reference other games in the series, not just one. You're playing favoritism while arguing with people for playing favoritism.

How about each of you play the games you like and enjoy for what it is?
This is like the next gen consoles discussion.

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Originally Posted by line_genrou

How about each of you play the games you like and enjoy for what it is?
This is like the next gen consoles discussion.

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Actually, pointless debates such as these have always existed in video game discussions. Most gamers aren't intelligent enough to comprehend simply enjoying the games they like and ignoring the games they don't. The internet has only worsened this mindset.

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Your argument is that VII is too hyped up. It seems like you're trying to take that hype and give it to IX. If you want to prove to me that VII is too hyped up, which you really don't need to but for arguments sake, reference other games in the series, not just one. You're playing favoritism while arguing with people for playing favoritism.

---

Reminds me of a much younger me.

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Actually, pointless debates such as these have always existed in video game discussions. Most gamers aren't intelligent enough to comprehend simply enjoying the games they like and ignoring the games they don't. The internet has only worsened this mindset.

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How about I play both the games that I like which is VII and IX, and talk about how one is overrated and the other is underrated? There are some people in here who doesn't believe that VII isn't hyped up. Now, indicating whether a game is hyped up or not isn't an opinion, it's a fact. You know when a game is hyped up. Final Fantasy VII and X are both hyped up. Other games like Metal Gear Solid series are hyped up (and for good reasons) and same with Devil may cry. But I've never EVER seen a game more hyped up then VII. How come I've got to see Cloud Strife cosplayers everywhere on the internet?(Lol, I have a feeling that theres gonna be one person who can't take an exaggeration come in here like "You're lying...Cloud cosplayers aren't EVERYWHERE on the internet) How come I automatically know who the strongest villain is in Kingdom Hearts III? How come I have a feeling that Crisis Core, Dirge of Cerberus, and Advent Children are not going to be the only FFVII add-ons (because it probably isn't and theres probably a movie or a game that I left out). I don't know if they're releasing some next gen version of VII or a sequel or something, but why am I not surprised if they would? How does an optional character in VII overshadow so many characters in any FF series (as if they pick out any cool looking characters and just hype him up, and there are some people who think Cloud looks cool too...wow)?

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Originally Posted by the_sandman

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Actually, pointless debates such as these have always existed in video game discussions. Most gamers aren't intelligent enough to comprehend simply enjoying the games they like and ignoring the games they don't. The internet has only worsened this mindset.

---

How about I play both the games that I like which is VII and IX, and talk about how one is overrated and the other is underrated? There are some people in here who doesn't believe that VII isn't hyped up. Now, indicating whether a game is hyped up or not isn't an opinion, it's a fact. You know when a game is hyped up. Final Fantasy VII and X are both hyped up. Other games like Metal Gear Solid series are hyped up (and for good reasons) and same with Devil may cry. But I've never EVER seen a game more hyped up then VII. How come I've got to see Cloud Strife cosplayers everywhere on the internet?(Lol, I have a feeling that theres gonna be one person who can't take an exaggeration come in here like "You're lying...Cloud cosplayers aren't EVERYWHERE on the internet) How come I automatically know who the strongest villain is in Kingdom Hearts III? How come I have a feeling that Crisis Core, Dirge of Cerberus, and Advent Children are not going to be the only FFVII add-ons (because it probably isn't and theres probably a movie or a game that I left out). I don't know if they're releasing some next gen version of VII or a sequel or something, but why am I not surprised if they would? How does an optional character in VII overshadow so many characters in any FF series (as if they pick out any cool looking characters and just hype him up, and there are some people who think Cloud looks cool too...wow)?

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Dude, relax. Why is this such a big deal? No one is saying that you can't have your opinion. But when you share said opinion, why is it a big deal that they don't agree with it?

For example: I don't really care for cars. I don't see the big deal about sports cars, tricking them out, etc. However, I am not going to walk into a garage or post somewhere why I don't see the big deal because I know I will be called out. I know that I am not going to change their opinion. And I don't care. There are much more important things in my life than something like that.

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Originally Posted by Sephex

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Originally Posted by the_sandman

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Actually, pointless debates such as these have always existed in video game discussions. Most gamers aren't intelligent enough to comprehend simply enjoying the games they like and ignoring the games they don't. The internet has only worsened this mindset.

---

How about I play both the games that I like which is VII and IX, and talk about how one is overrated and the other is underrated? There are some people in here who doesn't believe that VII isn't hyped up. Now, indicating whether a game is hyped up or not isn't an opinion, it's a fact. You know when a game is hyped up. Final Fantasy VII and X are both hyped up. Other games like Metal Gear Solid series are hyped up (and for good reasons) and same with Devil may cry. But I've never EVER seen a game more hyped up then VII. How come I've got to see Cloud Strife cosplayers everywhere on the internet?(Lol, I have a feeling that theres gonna be one person who can't take an exaggeration come in here like "You're lying...Cloud cosplayers aren't EVERYWHERE on the internet) How come I automatically know who the strongest villain is in Kingdom Hearts III? How come I have a feeling that Crisis Core, Dirge of Cerberus, and Advent Children are not going to be the only FFVII add-ons (because it probably isn't and theres probably a movie or a game that I left out). I don't know if they're releasing some next gen version of VII or a sequel or something, but why am I not surprised if they would? How does an optional character in VII overshadow so many characters in any FF series (as if they pick out any cool looking characters and just hype him up, and there are some people who think Cloud looks cool too...wow)?

---

Dude, relax. Why is this such a big deal? No one is saying that you can't have your opinion. But when you share said opinion, why is it a big deal that they don't agree with it?

For example: I don't really care for cars. I don't see the big deal about sports cars, tricking them out, etc. However, I am not going to walk into a garage or post somewhere why I don't see the big deal because I know I will be called out. I know that I am not going to change their opinion. And I don't care. There are much more important things in my life than something like that.

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Yeah, how about we leave all that in the real world and continue with this debate/argument or whatever you want to call it about Final Fantasy in a Final Fantasy forum. If we can't have this discussion in a FF forum then where else could we have it? Let's pretend that that's what FF forums are for (sarcasm) and just continue.

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Originally Posted by Darth Cid

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Your argument is that VII is too hyped up. It seems like you're trying to take that hype and give it to IX. If you want to prove to me that VII is too hyped up, which you really don't need to but for arguments sake, reference other games in the series, not just one. You're playing favoritism while arguing with people for playing favoritism.

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Reminds me of a much younger me.

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Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

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Originally Posted by the_sandman

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Originally Posted by Sephex

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Originally Posted by the_sandman

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Actually, pointless debates such as these have always existed in video game discussions. Most gamers aren't intelligent enough to comprehend simply enjoying the games they like and ignoring the games they don't. The internet has only worsened this mindset.

---

How about I play both the games that I like which is VII and IX, and talk about how one is overrated and the other is underrated? There are some people in here who doesn't believe that VII isn't hyped up. Now, indicating whether a game is hyped up or not isn't an opinion, it's a fact. You know when a game is hyped up. Final Fantasy VII and X are both hyped up. Other games like Metal Gear Solid series are hyped up (and for good reasons) and same with Devil may cry. But I've never EVER seen a game more hyped up then VII. How come I've got to see Cloud Strife cosplayers everywhere on the internet?(Lol, I have a feeling that theres gonna be one person who can't take an exaggeration come in here like "You're lying...Cloud cosplayers aren't EVERYWHERE on the internet) How come I automatically know who the strongest villain is in Kingdom Hearts III? How come I have a feeling that Crisis Core, Dirge of Cerberus, and Advent Children are not going to be the only FFVII add-ons (because it probably isn't and theres probably a movie or a game that I left out). I don't know if they're releasing some next gen version of VII or a sequel or something, but why am I not surprised if they would? How does an optional character in VII overshadow so many characters in any FF series (as if they pick out any cool looking characters and just hype him up, and there are some people who think Cloud looks cool too...wow)?

---

Dude, relax. Why is this such a big deal? No one is saying that you can't have your opinion. But when you share said opinion, why is it a big deal that they don't agree with it?

For example: I don't really care for cars. I don't see the big deal about sports cars, tricking them out, etc. However, I am not going to walk into a garage or post somewhere why I don't see the big deal because I know I will be called out. I know that I am not going to change their opinion. And I don't care. There are much more important things in my life than something like that.

---

Yeah, how about we leave all that in the real world and continue with this debate/argument or whatever you want to call it about Final Fantasy in a Final Fantasy forum. If we can't have this discussion in a FF forum then where else could we have it? Let's pretend that that's what FF forums are for (sarcasm) and just continue.

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I WAS FROZEN TODAY!

:exdee:

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Originally Posted by Sephex

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Originally Posted by the_sandman

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sephex

Quote:

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Originally Posted by the_sandman

Quote:

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Actually, pointless debates such as these have always existed in video game discussions. Most gamers aren't intelligent enough to comprehend simply enjoying the games they like and ignoring the games they don't. The internet has only worsened this mindset.

---

How about I play both the games that I like which is VII and IX, and talk about how one is overrated and the other is underrated? There are some people in here who doesn't believe that VII isn't hyped up. Now, indicating whether a game is hyped up or not isn't an opinion, it's a fact. You know when a game is hyped up. Final Fantasy VII and X are both hyped up. Other games like Metal Gear Solid series are hyped up (and for good reasons) and same with Devil may cry. But I've never EVER seen a game more hyped up then VII. How come I've got to see Cloud Strife cosplayers everywhere on the internet?(Lol, I have a feeling that theres gonna be one person who can't take an exaggeration come in here like "You're lying...Cloud cosplayers aren't EVERYWHERE on the internet) How come I automatically know who the strongest villain is in Kingdom Hearts III? How come I have a feeling that Crisis Core, Dirge of Cerberus, and Advent Children are not going to be the only FFVII add-ons (because it probably isn't and theres probably a movie or a game that I left out). I don't know if they're releasing some next gen version of VII or a sequel or something, but why am I not surprised if they would? How does an optional character in VII overshadow so many characters in any FF series (as if they pick out any cool looking characters and just hype him up, and there are some people who think Cloud looks cool too...wow)?

---

Dude, relax. Why is this such a big deal? No one is saying that you can't have your opinion. But when you share said opinion, why is it a big deal that they don't agree with it?

For example: I don't really care for cars. I don't see the big deal about sports cars, tricking them out, etc. However, I am not going to walk into a garage or post somewhere why I don't see the big deal because I know I will be called out. I know that I am not going to change their opinion. And I don't care. There are much more important things in my life than something like that.

---

Yeah, how about we leave all that in the real world and continue with this debate/argument or whatever you want to call it about Final Fantasy in a Final Fantasy forum. If we can't have this discussion in a FF forum then where else could we have it? Let's pretend that that's what FF forums are for (sarcasm) and just continue.

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I WAS FROZEN TODAY!

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That Guy With The Glasses fan?

Yeah, it looked like it worked.

*Applauds Sephex*

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Originally Posted by the_sandman

The characters weren't used very effectively. The story revolved around 3 characters. Cloud, Tifa, and Aeries (even after her death). The rest were ignored.

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In my opinion, FFVII's one of the only FFs that gave all the lead characters the attention they deserved. Every playable character gets their moment in the spotlight, usually focussing on their back-story and their reasons for fighting for the world. The other games, especially the later ones, are horrid for their neglect of any characters aside from the main hero and heroine. FFX, for instance - Auron and Lulu, despite being two fantastic and deep characters, are sidelined almost from the outset. FFIX, similarly, is one of the very worst offenders, for its utter callousness toward Amarant and Freya, who deserved vastly greater screentime and plot relevance than they were actually given.

FFVII's almost unique in the way its characters fot their chance to shine, even optional heroes like Yuffie and Vincent. Compared to this ensemble, most of the main characters from the later games feel entirely tacked-on.

:edit: also, I should've read the entire (god-awful) thread before replying because then I, too, would have noticed that CHRIST! SEPHEX WAS FROZEN TODAY! just like Christopher Lloyd.

Being Overated is so Underated.

I appreciate the OP's opinion, not everyone likes FFVII just like not everyone likes FFVIII even in my opinion they where the best. Obviously I liked FFVII best, but that was before it was even overated - I just love FFVII for what it is, the game really touched me as a game and a story. It would be the same if it was underated.

Because Auron was with Jecht they couldn't say much about his past without doing a spoiler. Because Lulu had been a guardian on a previous pilgrimage they had to keep some of her past secret as well.

I hope the TC realizes he can like the FFs he likes and dislike others, other people can like what they like and leave it at that.

:)

I think VII is both overrated and underrated. There are those who play FFVII and on who think it's THE Final Fantasy and yadda yadda. Those people overrate it. But then there are the people who feel the need to whine about the first group (which, if you notice, barely anybody anymore is a complete gibberish-speaking FFVII fanboy. Most have moved on to Guitar Hero or Halo or Madden or whatnot) who say it's the WORST game in the world. It's not.

That is to say, if it's your favorite FF, and you have reasoning behind it (aside from LOL WOW TEH SEPHIRTOAST!!!) then your opinion is valid and respectable. If it's your least favorite (aside from WTF, FANBOIS RAAAHHHH NERDRAGE!!!) then your opinion is valid and respectable.

My opinion of FFVII? I like it. It's a good game, I like the characters, the setting. I even like the art style (FFIX has a cartoony art style? HA!) but it's not the end-all be-all game.

FFVIII is the best game EVER compared to X.Which to me,is more like a fu**** movie than a game.

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Originally Posted by arcanedude34

My opinion of FFVII? I like it. It's a good game, I like the characters, the setting. I even like the art style (FFIX has a cartoony art style? HA!) .

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Aside from the contant apperances of "?" and "!" appearing in comic book style "bubbles" I wouldn't rate FFIX art style as "cartoony" at all. In my opinion FFIX's art is like a step between FFVII's and FFVIII's. But FFVII still wins on looks as it has a better atmosphere (I apologize to the OP, but that is my opinion).

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Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER

But FFVII still wins on looks as it has a better atmosphere (I apologize to the OP, but that is my opinion).

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Why apologize then? :-)

I think the game is overrated, and I blame myself for this. I loved the game when it first came out, but after playing it something like five or six years later, I realized that it really just was not that great. Fine game and all, and for the time good even, but just not the be all end all of games/RPG's/FF's. Still, if you prefer to think the story has unrivaled depths of emotion and gameplay and whatever, good for you. Plenty of people would say I overrate the Thief II, Resident Evil 4, Final Fantasy IV, Twilight Princess, and so on.

Move on.

I've always wondered why people get their panties in a knot over it being 'overrated'. Who cares? Either you like it or you don't; move on.

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Originally Posted by Omecle

I've always wondered why people get their panties in a knot over it being 'overrated'. Who cares? Either you like it or you don't; move on.

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Best answer ever.

To be honest I think the real definition of "Overated" is: Something that YOU dislike, but most people don't. Just like "Underated" is: Something YOU like, but most people don't. - In that case, everything is both underated and overated.

Another definition of overrated is "To overestimate the merits of; rate too highly". So, its possible for someone to not dislike FF7 and think its alright but also believe that it doesn't deserve all the acclaim. I guess I belong in that camp, I think its alright but nothing special and certainly isn't the best in the series. :)

FFVII is good to me but I think it's overrated.

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Originally Posted by Big D

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Originally Posted by the_sandman

The characters weren't used very effectively. The story revolved around 3 characters. Cloud, Tifa, and Aeries (even after her death). The rest were ignored.

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In my opinion, FFVII's one of the only FFs that gave all the lead characters the attention they deserved. Every playable character gets their moment in the spotlight, usually focussing on their back-story and their reasons for fighting for the world. The other games, especially the later ones, are horrid for their neglect of any characters aside from the main hero and heroine. FFX, for instance - Auron and Lulu, despite being two fantastic and deep characters, are sidelined almost from the outset. FFIX, similarly, is one of the very worst offenders, for its utter callousness toward Amarant and Freya, who deserved vastly greater screentime and plot relevance than they were actually given.

FFVII's almost unique in the way its characters fot their chance to shine, even optional heroes like Yuffie and Vincent. Compared to this ensemble, most of the main characters from the later games feel entirely tacked-on.

:edit: also, I should've read the entire (god-awful) thread before replying because then I, too, would have noticed that CHRIST! SEPHEX WAS FROZEN TODAY! just like Christopher Lloyd.

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This might be why I heart 6 and 7 so much. On top of the dark steamy industrial punk atmosphere, they respect most/all of their (playable) characters

And yes. Horrible thread. I was tempted to warn a post or two. But decided to just let it run its course

And ... Suburban Commando, I think?? <3

Edit: I suppose I should post an actual opinion to join in the discussion. I adore FF7. Its kinda tied for my favorite in the series. I can understand why some people are irritated by its popularity. But I can also sorta understand why it gets its popularity. The prevailing opinion is usually that FF7 was people's first RPG or Final Fantasy. It was neither for me. I played all the previously released in America Final Fantasys, and Dragon Warrior and Super Mario RPG, Chrono Trigger, and about every RPG Sega Genesis had available at the time (which wasn't much). FF7 just did what I needed. Dark and gritty. And I kinda liked the Lego-shaped characters. But apparently (I've been told) I'm a rare and "legitimate" breed. Everyone else just has a spell on them or something

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And ... Suburban Commando, I think??

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Yes.

I think this rage for VII over-ratedness (if such a hyphenated word exists) should possibly be aimed at the people that are doing the over-rating, and dressing up, and canonising and other criteria that you list. Even if you feel that VII is implicitly evil due to the focus it draws away from IX, it is highly unlikely that an inanimate object actually deliberately chose to become over-rated.

But, apart from that, I agree that some people do take their affection for VII way way too far. However, they tend to be oblivious to sense, so there's not much point in trying to change them.

not to sound like a hater...but it appears the thread poster is just a FFIX-tard and most of his rant @ the beggining was just showcasing that FFIX was underrated and was tarnished by the release of the PS2 with FFX.

i pity you, with no real quarrell with FFVII you go on to state that the charracters were under developed..well the game was pretty long as it was, do you really want to spend an extra 10 hours learning how Vincent goes to the bathroom? The went through minor characters quick and brief(how it should be). You have no real valid points as this just seems to be a hate thread towards FFVII. FFIX wasn't that great therefore not a lot of fanbase, but eoff still gave u ur own section in the forum right? So go hate there!

Actually,FFIX has a huge fanbase.
I say is the biggest after VII.Even bigger than X,which sucked anyway.

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not to sound like a hater...but it appears the thread poster is just a FFIX-tard and most of his rant @ the beggining was just showcasing that FFIX was underrated and was tarnished by the release of the PS2 with FFX.

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Yeah, like I said, reminds me of a much younger version of me.

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Originally Posted by line_genrou

Actually,FFIX has a huge fanbase.
I say is the biggest after VII.Even bigger than X,which sucked anyway.

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FFX didn't suck and probably has a bigger fanbase than IX.

I do agree that FFVII probably has a larger fanbase than any other single FF game.