ff 12 does not feel like final fantasy to me

yeah, the battle system was great, the graphics were awesome, the atmosphere was fantastic, the soundtrack was solid but where was the PASSION? where was the SOUL???

where were the epic moments? where were the plot twists? where was the EMOTION?

where were the memorable characters? where was the feeling of PROGRESS? where were the memorable BOSS BATTLES? Where was the PERSONALITY?

i just felt that this game had so much potential. the basic premise is interesting enough but where was the SOUL. i didnt feel attached to really any of characters. There was almost no memorable scenes (exception being the scene on the tower with Gabranth). The story just seemed so UNDERPLAYED (and yes, i understood it perfectly)


more than half the boss battles were against random monsters which serve no purpose in the story.

other final fantasies had plenty or memorable MEANINGFUL battles (beatrix in cleyra, seymour in macalania, black waltz #3, etc.)

I just never felt ATTACHED to any of these characters. hell, i thought the side characters (Larsa, Reddas, Al-Cid) were more interesting than the main characters!

I wanted to like this game, i really did, but this game just seemed like a shy girl to me. Someone you really want to love. someone you really want to OPEN UP to you, but they won't.

It's just such a shame this game could have been so great....

This is what I said in the last thread you made..... just copying and paste it.



"Disappointing? I thought this game was awesome.

I will admit that the pacing is a bit off, or I like to say different than most FFs. This game really emphasized gameplay and I'm glad for that. I like having to navigate those dungeons for an hour or two, it almost has that old school RPG feel to it when your wandering around those dark catacombs. It was also nice to see them really push for world exploration as well; I didn't get that feeling with X.

As for character development and emotion, its there it's just much more subtle. Most of the main cast have a personal journey that they eventually complete by the end of the game, they do change over time. However, I like I said its more subtle, so you don't see anyone just having a sudden epiphony (sp?); the growth is gradual. This game also lacks a lot of the emotion melodrama that was in the earlier games, which is fine for me. There are some scenes where the characters reveal their feelings and such, but it's fairly infrequent and again subtle.

Also I loved the plot to the game, I'm glad they did something a little different (though not totally original). Personally, I love fantasy stories about empires at war, and people fighting for freedom and all that stuff and to see this game do that was awesome. I know many of the other Final Fantasies had plots that are pretty close to this, XII really push the political and militaristic side.

Well thats my two cents anyways."



Oh and I wrote this as well.........


"I personally don't think its too short, infact I personally believe its a little longer than most in the series. But your right this is definitately one of the more straight forward stories in the series. It's very much like a typical fantasy adventure movie, like Star Wars or The Lord of the Rings. XII has a very straight forward plot with a few twists and turns, but they are infrequent and far inbetween. Also some of the twists were pretty big, but they never derailed the main plot. This can be a good or a bad thing depending on what you like. This type of story telling is right up my alley, so I welcomed it with open arms and love it, but not everyone is going to feel the same."

As for epic boss fights, personally I thought this game had them in abundance.

Honestly, I feel like we played different games. I feel the cast is incredible, the story was compelling and it was filled with tons of memorable moments like the escape from the Rabanastre castle, the first meeting with Lady Ashe, Balthier and Vaan's battles with the Seeq guards in the prison, the Leviathan, the destruction of Mt. Burimasce Temple, the destruction of the Leviathan, Vossler's betrayal, the Temples of Raithwall, the whole part of the party entering Archades, Gabranth murdering his friend, anything with Cid, and the entire Giruvegan/Pharos stuff. The game was freaking amazing.

Great plot twist were the Occurians, Balthier's past the truth about the Kings murder, Venat, Vossler's betrayal, and Lady Ashe's decision, to name a few.

As for the characters, I don't think I have ever said it better than this. Which was from this thread from a few years back...

To me, XII is the most "human" FF, I really felt the cast and story was far more realistic and natural than previous casts. The Plot was simple the but the acting and execution was pretty spot on imho.

Didn't you make this thread already?

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Originally Posted by Moon Rabbits

Didn't you make this thread already?

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I thought I read a very similar thread yesterday...

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Originally Posted by reinward

where was the EMOTION?

where were the memorable characters? where was the feeling of PROGRESS? where were the memorable BOSS BATTLES? Where was the PERSONALITY?

i didnt feel attached to really any of characters. There was almost no memorable scenes (exception being the scene on the tower with Gabranth). The story just seemed so UNDERPLAYED (and yes, i understood it perfectly)

I just never felt ATTACHED to any of these characters. hell, i thought the side characters (Larsa, Reddas, Al-Cid) were more interesting than the main characters!

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Wow... guess you don't like it much...
But there characters were memorable, as well as the story and events, I enjoyed them. Maybe thats just your opinion on it, but I don't think you need to post like that making it sound horrible.
I could say I feel the same about VII, seriously I've tried play that game atleast 3 times from the start, the furtherst I got was about start of disc 2. I would say that was boring as, that it had a story that didn't interest me, the characters same. It's just opinion.

I've been quite busy lately finishing uni and stuff, but I can clearly remember a fair bit of XII and looking foward to having the time to finish it off, but as for VII (playing casually along XII and other games) can't remember much, and theres nothing that makes me want to get back to it.

As for XII, I hve enjoyed it and look forward to finally finishing my 1st play through soon (so close now, been busy), and can't wait to play it again and do everything differently and explore more (something I doubt I will ever do for VII... I would have to somehow finish that first... doubt that).

This is where I agree with you reinwald. I look at it like this.

FFXII is not a main entry in the Final Fantasy series. It's much more like the Ivalice games, which is pretty obvious and necessarily so. The Ivalice games have each taken on a different style - Strategy RPG's (Tactics series), Action RPG (Vagrant Story), and recently RTS RPG (Revenant Wings). Final Fantasy XII is an Ivalice game with its concept/style in that of an active turn based system, and they called it Final Fantasy XII.

The game is about exploration, the complexity of relationships and society, and an insanely deep combat system. It's an Ivalice game, and that's what I see its pedigree as.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Honestly, I feel like we played different games. I feel the cast is incredible, the story was compelling and it was filled with tons of memorable moments like the escape from the Rabanastre castle, the first meeting with Lady Ashe, Balthier and Vaan's battles with the Seeq guards in the prison, the Leviathan, the destruction of Mt. Burimasce Temple, the destruction of the Leviathan, Vossler's betrayal, the Temples of Raithwall, the whole part of the party entering Archades, Gabranth murdering his friend, anything with Cid, and the entire Giruvegan/Pharos stuff. The game was freaking amazing.

Great plot twist were the Occurians, Balthier's past the truth about the Kings murder, Venat, Vossler's betrayal, and Lady Ashe's decision, to name a few.

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To be fair, Wolf, you really only mentioned a handful of moments. Most Final Fantasy's are chock full of these kinds of moments from start to finish.

I still agree with you about the characters and the story being arguably the best in Square's history (not sure if you're going that far), unfortunately I feel it takes more than one playthrough to bring this to light.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

To be fair, Wolf, you really only mentioned a handful of moments. Most Final Fantasy's are chock full of these kinds of moments from start to finish.

I still agree with you about the characters and the story being arguably the best in Square's history (not sure if you're going that far), unfortunately I feel it takes more than one playthrough to bring this to light.

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I could have listed more but chose not to cause I felt I made my point. Though to be fair, I would honestly disagree with you that the FF series is "chock full of such moments" as I usually feel most FFs have anywhere from 3 to 5 memorable scenes and that's about it really. I feel many can keep me entertained from start to finish and unlike your initial playthrough and reinwards experience I was actually glued to XII from start to finish, hell it was the first FF I clocked over 100 hours in (close to two hundred on my first save file) and the first FF I didn't have finished in a week despite having more free time to play than the previous installments. Whereas I struggled to play through X, by the time I got Ixion I was kinda wondering when the game would get to the point.

I didn't even mention the game inspired moments that blew me away like defeating a tough mark several levels before I should have, or talking to the refugees after they were savagely attacked by the Empire (remember the child who was asking why her mommy wasn't moving anymore?) or listening to the soldiers guarding Rabanastre grow to love the city and the country, or even the social injustice between low town and the high town of Archades, not to mention the tons and tons of references to other FF games. Hell, Gilgamesh is easily one of the most memorable and fun battles in the series IMHO. ;)

Well, I'm not going to talk down XII's achievements because I do love the game, but I just still have to disagree.

I might say that I-V only had 3-5 big moments, but I feel from VI onward Square was all about maximizing incredible moments of tremendous imagination and interactivity. Just look at the beginnings of the games. The beginning of FFXII was like 40 minutes of cutscenes, when you actually play it's a very static experience, running through the Nalbina tutorial, then exploring Rabanastre until you finally find out what to do.

Compare that to, say, FFIX. The first 5 hours of that game are so incredible, practicing against Baku, sneaking into the theatre/stadium, putting on the show, escaping with the princess, crashing into the forest, and escaping it as it petrifies. That's a great way of telling a story in video games whereas in XII you're just doing the same thing over and over again, which is in turn the same things we've been doing in RPG's for decades now.

I mean, if FFXII kept you glued from start to finish I can only imagine what the previous games did to you.

Nah, I just think you tend to gloss over the ho-hum parts. :p

For instance after that fight with Baku and the plan gets told you are then whisked away as Vivi who spends his time just wandering around Alexandria until he can carelessly slip into the play which was all hardly exciting, not to mention the part where you are wandering the castle as Steiner looking for Dagger and the other Pluto knights. VIII ends their kick ass opening with you just wandering around Garden until you finish a qualification test that is presented so routinely it sucks the "epic-ness" from it and the game really doesn't get kick ass until you do the Dollet Mission which is a good few hours into the game. Hell, I feel VIII constantly goes back and forth between boring parts to exciting parts.

Even VI and VII have a few moments, which while having a few interesting moments could hardly be called "edge of your seats, excitement" such as the time between escaping Figaro Castle to when you make it to the Returners base in VI or the time between leaving Kalm to when you get to Junon in VII.

With XII, you can spend your time seeing how human the NPCs are and learn of the whole story of what's been going on since Nalbina. Not to mention before even taking control of Reks you get a kickass fight scene with Basch cutting down a small group of soldiers single-handedly and then your party gets attacked by a flying craft which ends with Basch finishing it off with a Quickening. I can't fathom how you would be bored, especially spending time in the early parts to really experiment with the combat system.

I liked FFXII as a whole (the story, the gameplay, the areas), but I felt like I was watching it from a distance. I think this was because of the lack of focus on one character. They all seemed to be the main character and I didn't like that.

I would also have liked to know more about the Rozzirean Empire (or however it's spelled.

I agree and as plenty of you know my reason's I'll just say that XII is all about combat and story takes a backseat.

Oh, the story in FFXII is incredible. It's just not one of the downright in-your-face stories. A lot is left unsaid and to the interpretation of the player. I find this great.

Cool.

It feels like Final Fantasy to me.

:)

At first play through I kinda felt it was like star wars. But then i played through it again and realised just like every Final Fantasy, XII has its own unique plot. I found the FF passion during the cutscene of the Judges walking ;)

I loved the plot and story of the game, but the pacing was bloody awrful. I mean, it seemed likehours before the next plot point came along. I think that's why it took me over a year to complete the game. :mad:

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Originally Posted by jammi567

I think that's why it took me over a year to complete the game. :mad:

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>>> A year! :eek: ..:luca:
I wish I had an RPG that entertained me for a whole year, but thats impossible..:luca:

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Originally Posted by jammi567

I loved the plot and story of the game, but the pacing was bloody awrful. I mean, it seemed likehours before the next plot point came along. I think that's why it took me over a year to complete the game. :mad:

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Absolutely true as far as the pacing was concerned. But there was a disconnect.I never cared about what happened to the characters.

I stopped playing last spring after I couldn't beat zodiark.

The great crystal, the lighthouse, the hidden area of Henne's mines..I wonder why they made those areas so confusing and the marks/summons you had to fight there so hard when your regular enemies including the final boss, or so I 've been told ,wasn't anywhere near as difficult.

:mad2:

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Originally Posted by jammi567

I loved the plot and story of the game, but the pacing was bloody awrful. I mean, it seemed likehours before the next plot point came along. I think that's why it took me over a year to complete the game. :mad:

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Yeah, the pacing is what lost me as well. Despite moderatly level grinding (killing every monster in the area, but not makings a chore of it), the Leviathan still kicked my ass. So I level grinded for a while and eventually forgot what I was doing on the ship story-wise in the first place. I'm not saying that's my problem, but I did find it annoying. The plot I find to be well written, but once again, sometimes I lose my sense of purpose. I think the game would have been nice with a synopsis (/synapsis?) like the tales series so I could refresh on what was happening in Ivalice (it helped in War of the Lions). Also, while I liked the characters, I also found them to be a little uninteresting, same with the enviroments. I agree with Wolf Kanno that the game does have it's share of memorable moments, but I was just hoping for more. IMHO, the game feels like Runescape exchanging the online activity with a story (I just realized that sounds like something said in a newgrounds animation Not the Final Fantasy XII, but it's an accurate analogy.) I typed a bit more than I wanted to, but that's my rant.

Given that this game got over 400 hours of my life so yeah this game definitely felt like Final Fantasy to me :D

I hate to say it, but I couldn't follow the plot at all. I mean I got some parts, but I honestly don't understand the different countries/regions in the world, I don't get why everyone is chasing whatever they're chasing, I don't know what people are trying to do or accomplish in the game. It's all just too crazy for me, but I play for the good graphics and fun of leveling my characters. That, and it's FF

I think that FFXII was more Western than previous Final Fantasies. I got Elder Scrolls: Oblivion and I just feel that FFXII and it both have a similar feel. And the one area that I think irritates a lot of FF fans is the mechanisms around game and story progression. In XII, you're kind of told you need to find X at Y, and then you trek along some field until you reach a dungeon, fight the monsters in it, then come out and walk all the way back to where you started. And there isn't a problem with this. I enjoy Oblivion immensely. And XII has the qualities that I enjoy in Oblivion - a beautifully detailed world, where you get your characters to progress. And, as in Oblivion, the combat was quite autonomous, but there was still a bit of a challenge, and you always felt this sense of exploration.

The thing is, I buy Final Fantasy because I want its kind of experience, so when something which kind of changes the formula so drastically, I won't enjoy the new merits, because it isn't why I bought it. If that makes sense.

And I will state categorically here that I think FFXII definitely had a better story than Oblivion (because that is not hard) and there was a greater attachment to the main characters (again, not too hard). The problem is that a lot of the story gets lost because I now have to explore so far before I find out where I'm going next. For example (and this summarises it for me), why does the Dalmascan Sandsea have to be so big? And not only so big, why does it have to be so complex that it takes even longer to get to the Tomb of Raithwall? And the Sandsea wasn't particularly pretty or interesting either. So I was bored. For many hours. That by the time that I had got through to the other side, I had a lot of what I was feeling about the story at the time and had to start again.

And this happened again and again. So yeah, pacing ruined many of the elements of the story - and I think the reason the pacing was off was it became very much like a WRPG like Oblivion without realising that nobody cares about the Oblivion main story very much and doesn't mind having to spend 7 hours of pure gameplay lost in a dungeon before the story progresses.

So, that's my new view on it. I wouldn't say its the best RPG or Final Fantasy ever (mine I think is Vagrant Story), but it is a good RPG. Unfortunately, its target audience was expecting something different and as such measured it by a very specific set of criteria.

I just think Matsuno's alleged breakdown and abrupt departure from Square disrupted his vision and implimentation of that in the game and contributes to its rather disjointed and uneven nature.

:)

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Originally Posted by reinward

where were the epic moments? where were the plot twists? where was the EMOTION?

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You mean the pseudo-intellectual babble that was engineered to appeal to angsty pre-teens for sales purposes?

They replaced it with good dialogue