Forget GOTY, lets talk GOTD

So it just hit me yesterday that we are coming to the end of a decade. On one hand its not a big deal but on the other its a huge deal. I always like to refer to the 90's as the golden age of gaming and now that the....errr.....00's are over we can compare them side by side. Firstly Ill just go through the games that stuck out for me this decade.

Deus Ex (2000)
Final Fantasy IX (2000)
Jak and Daxter (2001)
Metal Gear Solid 2 (2001)
Ico (2001)
Dark Chronicle (2003)
Half Life 2 (2004)
God Hand (2006)
Final Fantasy XII (2006)
Virtua Fighter 5 (2007)
Persona 4 (2008)

I'm pretty happy with the games released this decade. Deus Ex being a particular watershed moment for me. If I was forced to pick my GOTD it would be Deus Ex no question. And while RPG's have waned on me in the last few years most of the games that stuck out for me this decade are RPG's. No surprises that two of them are Final Fantasy games (and yes, I rate FFXII higher than FFX, suck it). I feel guilty that I'm listing Half Life 2 as I hate Valve with a passion and I generally don't like following a crowd but when I played Half Life 2 it really is hard to argue with what has been said about the game.

In retrospect the 00's were probably the best decade for the sheer amount of quality games. Despite all the good games released in the 90's, there was a lot of crap to shuffle through to get to them. But on the other hand the 90's saw the switch between 2D and 3D which is arguably one of the most significant changes to happen in gaming since it began in the 70's. And the groundwork for all the games released in the 00's were a result of the innovations that happened in the 90's. So I'm still crowning the 90's as the decade for gaming but the 00's were no slouch either. Also the 90's had Final Fantasy VII. Can't argue with that really.

So what games stuck out for you this decade and how do you think it matches previous decades?

Wow, man. Yeah, this is crazy. A few games come to mind that should be talked about.

You already nailed Deus Ex and Half-Life 2, I would just add that Half-Life 2 was kind of the grand opening of this "generation" of games, even though it was on the original XBox, that was the first game where people were actually saying "physics" with nothing else attached to it to explain it and it actually meant something. Just "physics, dude." So yeah, that was really big.

Metal Gear Solid 3 - that was an incredibly huge moment for me, I think this might be the closest games have ever come to perfection. The learning curve in the game that parallels the emergence of Big Boss in the story is an incredible feat that I feel doesn't get talked about. When I first read about the game I thought they were going overboard and I would never learn all those gameplay options, but by the end of the game, you ARE Big Boss, kind of like the Batman experience in Arkham, which is a game I feel learned from MGS. Other than that the story was incredible, it explained everything in the rest of the series in a really subtle way that doesn't really hit you until a few years later. The storytelling was perfect as well because although it was still the long, Kojima cutscenes, it seemed a lot more concise than it was when it was actually happening. On all fronts, just amazing stuff all around.

Grand Theft Auto III - not really much to be said, I would just add that the ambience is what i remember and cherish most and the way it created a perfect world within a story, even though it took place at the time it was made, early 2000's, it was actually a nice snapshot of that time period, something people can only really do in movies long after that era has passed.

Dragon Quest VIII - sometimes I think this is the best JRPG ever made. Level-5 evolved Dragon Quest to where it should have been already and went even beyond that, making one of the most beautiful games I've ever played. The way time changes and the sunsets, even looking out into the distance in this giant world was one of the best experiences in gaming I've had. It truly was a fantasy world brought to life (what a cliche), and it had everything you could want in a Dragon Quest game. It was one of the highlights.

Final Fantasy X - with voice acting and facial expressions it was the most personal/emotional Final Fantasy story in the series, XII comes close because of the same features, but there's a certain aloof, unpalpable feeling to each of the characters that makes me put FFX over it. Everything was so smooth, so crisp, the sound and visuals were spot on. When I look back at FFX after playing "next-gen" games on the PS3/360 it makes me sad because I honestly feel like technology hasn't come that far at all since Final Fantasy X.

Killzone 2 - it feels like blasphemy to put a shooter in here but this, to me, was the arrival of something people have talked about for a long time - it was the first game that played like a CG movie. For emphasis: it played like a CG movie. While that makes it one of the most important games, it's one of the best to me because what it does on top of that. I've said in other threads before, and I could go on forever, about the unfathomable level of detail, effort, and time put into this game. I'll leave it at one comparison. The E3 2005 target render will always haunt these guys. They believe, and I agree, that they surpassed it, as the guns and ATAC aerial drones and other stuff look decidedly better in the final game. But the one thing I thought they couldn't recreate was the one Helghan in the trailer who gets shot and hangs from the railing on a balcony, gripping for dear life. That is, I thought they didn't match that level, until I saw it actually happen in the game not too long ago. I'm just stunned even today after beating it 3 times and logging 60-70 hours on the multilpayer; the game is a supreme achievement in graphics, animation, physics, effects, and most importantly, gameplay.

Metal Gear Solid 4 - This game was a glimpse at what Killzone 2 would do a year later, a game that was close to a CG movie, but wasn't quite up to KZ2 on that level specifically. And MGS3 may be the better overall, well rounded game. But MGS4 stunned me and did various thing better than both of those. It was the most rewarding gameplay experience I've ever had and the most impressive story and storytelling in a game I've seen. I would say it probably has the best acting. The way Snake can convey an emotion just by a cynical look on his face and nothing else makes this the best cinematic/movie-esque production in gaming. Even the action cutscenes, specifically the opening one with the militia coming in on trucks and getting decimated by the PMC snipers are better than most directing you can see in a real movie. I've already spent a lot of time talking about it but I could go on and on about the achievements in this game.

I would say Metal Gear Solid 4 is the best game of the decade.

The Big Picture

As to your question of the decades of gaming, Dreddz, I pretty much have the same view. Although I would say that while we had to sift through a lot of crap in the 90's, we've had to sift through a lot of mediocrity in the 00's. This has unfortunately led to a lot of games that would've been considered average before being called "mindblowing" or "incredible". I myself may be guilty of it in the games I've just mentioned. The thing is, the 90's were defined by struggle. Developers struggled to take this medium in new directions, and it shows in so many games where they effectively challenged what video games could be. While I can immediately recognize dozens of games on the SNES, Genesis, and PSOne that did this, the ones that did it in the 00's seem more notable, NOT MORE NOTABLE THAN THE GAMES IN THE 90's, but more notable to their peers in the 00's because they seemed to have stood out more, whereas it was just something that was simply present in a lot of games in the 90's. I think if anything we're heading towards more accessibility, more risk-adversion.

Which is why I'm somewhat concerned for the next decade. I think games are going to converge even more towards these easy and accessible experiences with checkpoints, regenerating health, and Quick Time Events. This statement is a little generic because we're already there, but the medium could really get drowned in this and fail to evolve. However, with people like Hideo Kojima and Team Ico having millions of dollars thrown at them from large corporations, I think we'll be ok to enjoy some really special projects.

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Originally Posted by Dreddz

I feel guilty that I'm listing Half Life 2 as I hate Valve with a passion and I generally don't like following a crowd but when I played Half Life 2 it really is hard to argue with what has been said about the game.

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You've got me curious now; not to derail the topic or anything but can I ask why you hate Valve with a passion? Because if I had to think of one developer who gets things right far more often than they get them wrong it'd be Valve.

Anyway, I'll come up with a list of my favourite games of the decade a little later as I don't have time now, but I must say any GOTD list is not complete without Portal. I can't praise it enough.

Half-Life 2 (2004)
I just beat this game for the first time, and despite the first hour or so still not drawing me in, it was a fantastic game. Despite knowing it was linear as hell I kept thinking to myself "Man, this world is huge and so detailed." Vale successfully kept everything I didn't need to see hidden in a non-obvious way, and I kept getting sucked into the level design. Also, since I've played through it so late I was touched by the things like health packs, shields, and carrying nine weapons and tons of ammo with no problem. Nostalgia for older shooters certainly made me smile more than once. While I loathe the first-person platforming segments, the game still only let me stop playing after several hours per session. The segments with squads of humans or antlions under your control also helped break up the monotony in creative and well-executed ways. The scripting of events was perfect and kept me on my toes, and more then once startled the crap out of me. Finally, Ravenholm.

Thief II: The Metal Age (2000)
A good example of a sequel improving on the raw ideas of it's predecessor, Thief II was better in just about every way. It mostly got rid of the creatures in the first, replacing the missions with more open levels surrounding humans and their robotic buddies. The stealth was refined to greatness, the improved AI behaviors worked great, and the gameplay allowed for much experimentation. This is hands-down still my favorite stealth game ever.

Call of Duty (2003)/CoD: United Offensive (2004)
Call of Duty was simply amazing for me when I played it the first time. The massive battles, tightly scripted sequences, and soaring score worked fantastic together, making this game the equivalent of a Micheal Bay movie. The wealth of weapons offered by the three separate campaigns were well-balanced and fun as well, especially for the multiplayer. The first two Russian levels were also amazing. The expansion, while lacking some of the grandness of the first, improved on the gameplay enough to really standout as well. This is also the first game I played extensively online, so it holds a special place in my heart.

Dragon Quest VIII (2005)
Pretty much what Bolivar said. The beautiful graphics, charming characters, fantastical settings, and superb gameplay really drew me in when I play it this past summer. Definitely made me look into the series and pine for good JRPG's.

Shadow of the Colossus (2005)
Epic. The feeling, the vastness of the world, the music, the titular colossi. This game grabbed me when I first saw it being played, and playing it was simply breathtaking. The different colossi really made me think about how to beat them, and felt incredible to climb all over. I believe it is the 13th colossus (the flying snake in the desert) that just made me feel like a freaking badass taking it down. The story being conveyed mostly by subtleties also was a breath of fresh air.

Portal (2007)
Glados and the gameplay mechanic, along with the typical way Valve tells story through small things in a game, really sold me on this. Also, it hurt my brain in a good way at times)

These are the only five I can think of that really wowed me this decade. There were plenty of games that I loved that I don't include in this list (Resident Evil 4, God of War, Metal Gear Solid 3, The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, Professor Layton), but if I had to chose one for the whole decade it would be one of the above. If looking at the entire landscape of gaming I would probably have to put Half-Life 2 up there as the game of the decade, but for the time I played it still think Thief II affected me the most.

Best Decade?
Even doing my best to remove the nostalgia googles, I still feel that the 90's were a better year for gaming as a whole. The refinement or creation of genres was astounding, to say nothing of the advent of 3D. While there was a lot of crap then also, I think at the time we saw them as no worse then we see the myriad of mediocre/crappy games from this decade. I also feel the 90's were fully of crazy experimentation, and while oftentimes not utilized properly that spirit of trying has since slowly become absent in most aspects of gaming for this decade. While I love tons of games from the past ten years, it still doesn't quite compare for me.

I'm with Rase. The 90s set a good foundation, and wasn't afraid to do a lot of experimenting. Which they've shied away from more and more this decade. Just thinking about taking this topic one step further leaves it all but settled for me. Great games of the 90s? Um... most of the Sonic games, most of the Mario games, the MegaMan games, Contra, Castlevania, Metroid, Zelda, Tomb Rider, Metal Gear Solid, a good portion of the Final Fantasies, Chrono, Suikoden, Persona, its boggling my mind really

I guess I feel like the grouping helps. You can take whole clumps of franchise games. Whereas this decade you kind of have to pick and choose and name things individually. Lots of amazing games, but it seems like the 90s was just swarmed with quality games. Granted there was a TON of random crap because anyone and their brother could make a game. But there were dozens and dozens of quality franchises

But in all honesty, the gamer inside me just doesn't want to go where gaming is headed. So I can't agree with a lot of "mindblowing" choices made this decade, and it'll probably just get worse. Just the oldskool old fogey inside me I suppose

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Originally Posted by Vivi22

You've got me curious now; not to derail the topic or anything but can I ask why you hate Valve with a passion? Because if I had to think of one developer who gets things right far more often than they get them wrong it'd be Valve.

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He answered it in his post;

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Originally Posted by Dreddz

I feel guilty that I'm listing Half Life 2 as I hate Valve with a passion and I generally don't like following a crowd but when I played Half Life 2 it really is hard to argue with what has been said about the game.

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Everyone likes Valve, ergo Dreddz hates them. QED.

So, someone should totally post a link of all games released in the Decade, as I can't seem to find one. :p

Though I can assure you P3/P4 will be making my list. :p

Edit: Here's a list of the PS1 titles, you can easily just click a link in there for the others. :p

Chronology of PlayStation games - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Games that I loved throughout this decade:

Syphon Filter 2 (2000)
Final Fantasy IX (2000)
Spyro: Year of the Dragon (2000)
Rollercoaster Tycoon 2 (2002)
Final Fantasy X (2002)
Need for Speed: Underground (2003)
Tekken 5 (2005)
Final Fantasy XII (2006)
Call of Duty: World at War (2008)

That's all that's coming into my head at the moment, although I'm sure I'm probably forgetting some. This decade was great for games. Nostalgia aside, compared to the decade before it, the 90's just about shave it. It's the decade that also holds my favorite all-time game (FFVIII). Lets hope from 2010 to 2020 gaming will both evolve and hold as many fun games this decade produced.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

Dragon Quest VIII - sometimes I think this is the best JRPG ever made. Level-5 evolved Dragon Quest to where it should have been already and went even beyond that, making one of the most beautiful games I've ever played. The way time changes and the sunsets, even looking out into the distance in this giant world was one of the best experiences in gaming I've had. It truly was a fantasy world brought to life (what a cliche), and it had everything you could want in a Dragon Quest game. It was one of the highlights.

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Couldn't agree with you more when it comes to both this game and the series as a whole.

For me, the 'game of the decade' is an interesting concept. I'm probably nowhere up-to-date with gaming culture as a lot of posters here; I really only gravitate to games I know I will enjoy. In the end, I wonder whether the game of the decade can be boiled down to a single title, and whether or not the 'award' should go to something groundbreaking and revolutionary, or to a single title refined to perfection in a well-established genre (DQ8, for example). And even for groundbreaking games - lots of games break new ground in different ways. What's to say one way is more or less- groundbreaking than another? Maybe the small progressions made in smaller, unknown titles will become entire design philosophies in the future.

But I'm talking way too much about this. Whatever. My vote goes to Shadow of the Colossus. That game smurfing rules.

As for best decade, it's hard to say. The NES in the 80s basically resurrected gaming, but I still find it hard to believe the medium wouldn't have developed without it. The 90s, as some have said, established loads of different genres and franchises, although one could easily argue it was more of a refinement of the 80s' foundations than pure originality on its own. Again, the same can be said for the 00s, and probably eventually the 10s. Although, like some other posters in this thread, I'm becoming increasingly wary of this Hollywood-sized gaming industry and the kinds of games and attitudes that are coming out of it.

I'm also getting tired with 90s-era franchises being milked and milked and milked to death. Great games from then do not automatically equate great games now, especially not when development teams are completely different from decade to decade. Updating an old product with HD graphics and sound does not make a compelling experience for me. But hey, that's just me, and I'm a total hypocrite anyway because my interest in the fighting genre has been completely revitalized with SFIV by familiarity and nostalgia alone. Not to mention that I'll buy each and every game in the main FF series on release regardless of how much I think I'll like it (XII ended up being one of my favourite games of the last five years, but I was totally expecting to hate it even as I handed over my nice crisp 50).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...a_Coverart.png

Best part of the gaming decade.

I don't play as many games as the next person, admittedly, so my list is shorter than some here.

Civilization IV (2005)
Released in 2005. Purchased shortly after. Played ever since, including the past week. Endless fun.

Mass Effect (2007)
God I love this game so hard.

Warcraft III (2002)
It's an early game for the decade and there have been a buttload of RTS released since, but none compare for me to Warcraft III in their ability to get everything just right. One of few RTS games I could get Danielle playing for months.

GTA: San Andreas (2004)
It might have been hard to pick one out if San Andreas wasn't just that much cooler than the rest. Huge, too. I didn't even get to the top two cities, I gotta admit!

Crysis: Warhead (2008)
I don't know how many people had computers capable of playing this or how well it would have done if more people got it, but for me, this was awesome. I loved it so hard. I wish it became huge and everyone played it so I could still play it today with a bunch of people like we did on Halo 3. Ahhhh well. It was also hard to pick between this one and the original as they're very similar but I did really enjoy Psycho a lot more than Nomad.

Dreamfall: The Longest Journey (2006)
God dammit finish this story already I want to find out how it ends. ;_____;

Dwarf. Fortress.

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Originally Posted by Captain Maxx Power

He answered it in his post;

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Originally Posted by Dreddz

I feel guilty that I'm listing Half Life 2 as I hate Valve with a passion and I generally don't like following a crowd but when I played Half Life 2 it really is hard to argue with what has been said about the game.

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Everyone likes Valve, ergo Dreddz hates them. QED.

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On the contrary; he said he doesn't want to list HL2 because he hates Valve and doesn't like following a crowd. In other words, he's listing HL2 despite hating the company that made it and everyone under the sun liking it.

Anywho, I was thinking about the question of Game of the Decade over the holidays while without internet and most video games for about five days. I came up with a list of several that I chose for being what I feel are some of the most important games of this decade, the reasoning behind some being something most people will be totally oblivious to even another ten years from now:

Team Fortress 2:
In a time when most companies like Activision like to try and nickel and dime their customers so they can take them for every red cent they can, Valve has pretty much taken the opposite stance starting with\TF2 (and the Orange Box in general). As if it weren't enough that they sold TF2 along with Portal and Episode 2 (and HL2 and Episode 1 for those that didn't have them) for the cost of any single title, they've chosen not to charge for every single piece of DLC they've released. Any other company would be charging $10 an update for you to have access to class updates, new maps and new game modes, but Valve gives them away for free. Since release TF2 has eight of the nine classes receive updates, three new game modes added, and at least ten new maps; all of which TF2 players haven't had to pay a cent for. For all the flak they may take post update about sometimes questionable balance or game choices, TF2 has been continually updated and supported completely free for more than two years now, and aside from being one of the best multiplayer games going, I think this is one of the most important ideas in gaming nowadays: making sure the player gets more than their money's worth when they buy the game. I can't think of another title that gives you more value for the price and it's a trend more developers need to take notice of.

Half-Life 2:
Half-Life pretty much changed the FPS landscape: after there were tons of FPS games that made the move to being story driven and having more puzzles. Nothing popularized this take on the FPS like HL. I find it fitting then that HL2 completely and utterly refined the formula that the original popularized. Not only was it story driven like it's predecessor, but much of the story was told in little snippets which you'd find almost as background information within the world. It never beat you over the head with it, but gave enough clues in dialogue and within the world to let you figure it out. Combine that with likable characters who possessed the most life-like facial animation seen until it's own sequels surpassed it and you had a pretty immersive experience. But what really drove the immersion home was the physics engine. If ever there was an argument for more power helping to realize a creative idea, HL2's physics and the seamless and believeable interaction it allowed is it. Up until this point, no game had ever managed to suck me into the experience as much as it did and it was the little things that did it. Top it all off with near perfect pacing and you have a game that stands as one of the best of all time, not just the decade.

L4D2:
Really I could put L4D here instead since it was the original but since L4D2 improved on it in every way I chose it instead. Had you told me before L4D had ever been announced that a game that relied almost totally on 4-player co-op online could not only work, but work well I would have told you you were full of crap. We've all heard enough stories of assholes on Xbox Live and the like possessing the vocabulary of a five year old raised in a truck stop and who couldn't even spell manners, but the people who play L4D2 generally aren't like that. Maybe it's the expectation most people have going in: you know it's a game where the point is to work together, so those who don't want to stay away, but L4D2 works. I've had some great games with everyone on the mics talking, calling out the positions of special infected and generally working as a team even though we've never met. I've even added people to my friends list who I met randomly and had great games with. I've honestly never felt compelled to do that in any other game before, but the small team size combined with the game requiring teamwork to be fun greatly fosters the team dynamic. And of course, the game also features great graphics, a nice variety of unique weapons, much better variety of special infected than L4D, better game balance, and some of the best weather effects I've seen in a game. Hard Rain is literally one of the most intense game experiences I've ever played and it holds up after multiple play throughs. It'll be hard to top a hurricane that can kick up so strongly that it gets hard to even hear your teammates over the mics or see the enemy ten feet in front of you.

Portal:
Didn't expect most of this to be a mostly Valve list, but when it comes to games that are not only great but innovative as well they've been doing amazing things in the last ten years. The thinking mans shooter with the shooting removed, Portal takes one idea and runs with it. It messes with your spacial perceptions and rewards some pretty out of the box thinking, while providing a narrative that is immersive and engrossing, all capped off by one of the more memorable credit themes of the last ten years. I don't use the word perfect for many games but it applies here. The only problem I've had with the game is that Valve hasn't done anything with it or the Portal gun since.

Little Big Planet:
The idea of a level editor is nothing new, but LBP manages to be original with it not by simply including one, but by making it perhaps the easiest to use I've ever seen while also maintaining a great deal of control for the person using it. Combining those two is no simple task but they do it better than any other title I've seen. Of course that in itself doesn't really count for much if you can't actually play the levels people make which is where LBP shines for making the sharing of levels pretty easy and straightforward. I can't say enough about this title.

And for game of the decade I will probably go with an even tie between Ico and Shadow of the Colossus. A lot has been bandied about with regards to these games being art, but let's forget about that for a moment because it's been done to death. They were also just plain incredible games. Ico was an astounding and breathtaking puzzle platformer. Besides being beautiful, it had the audacity to have puzzles that made some degree of logical sense when games like Resident Evil still had you running around looking for keys shaped like chess pieces. And Shadow of the Colossus recognized just where the real fun was going to be, in killing the colossi, and made damn sure that absolutely nothing was going to distract from that. These games are excellent examples of minimalist game design done right, and a lot of developers should take the time to learn from them.

I'll also throw out some honourable mentions to the likes of Odin Sphere, Grim Grimoire, Ikaruga, BlazBlue, Braid and others for proving that not only is 2D and 2D gameplay alive and well but they still has new places to go. Final Fantasy XII for having the balls to try something new in singleplayer JRPG's. Demon's Souls for not being afraid to be brutally difficult, and Way of the Samurai for giving us choices that actually mattered even if no one noticed. I'll also go ahead and proclaim Valve to be developer of the decade as far as I'm concerned.

As for which decade is the best in my eyes; I'll say this one for lack of a really good option from any of the others. The 80's saw the resurrection of the industry and a lot of innovation, much of which went nowhere. The 90's saw a great deal of perfecting of 2D gameplay styles along with the move to 3D and just as much fumbling around in the dark as there was in the 80's. This decade has seen the near death of 2D, but there have been those few that still push it's boundaries, especially in the indie scene, and a great deal of perfecting of the 3D game to the point that even a lot of the better stuff from the 90's borders on being unplayable now. Looking at any decade overall I don't think there's a clear winner without putting on some rose coloured glasses.

That's about it for me. It's late, I'm tired, and I'm sure I missed a game or seven in all of this.

The body is but a vessel for the soul, a puppet which bends to the soul's tyranny.
And lo, the body is not eternal, for it must feed on the flesh of others, lest it return to the dust from whence it came.
Therefore must the soul deceive, despise and murder men.

http://www.necronopticous.com/upload...onde-sized.jpg

Sims!

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Originally Posted by Captain Maxx Power

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Originally Posted by Vivi22

You've got me curious now; not to derail the topic or anything but can I ask why you hate Valve with a passion? Because if I had to think of one developer who gets things right far more often than they get them wrong it'd be Valve.

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He answered it in his post;

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Originally Posted by Dreddz

I feel guilty that I'm listing Half Life 2 as I hate Valve with a passion and I generally don't like following a crowd but when I played Half Life 2 it really is hard to argue with what has been said about the game.

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Everyone likes Valve, ergo Dreddz hates them. QED.

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I really don't like Valve myself. The Left 4 Dead games were horrid. Lack-luster graphics. Repetitive gameplay. Annoying companions. Little to no story. It was all about running around shooting zombies in the face. The only possible fun you can have is goofing around with friends. And a game geared solely toward multi-player does not deserve my 60 bucks. And I've heard that L4D2 started out as a DLC that they decided to just turn into a sequel. And its painfully obvious. Its just a rehash of L4D1

Au contrare, I believe they should make more games geared towards co-op multiplayer.

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Originally Posted by Vyk

I really don't like Valve myself. The Left 4 Dead games were horrid. Lack-luster graphics. Repetitive gameplay. Annoying companions. Little to no story. It was all about running around shooting zombies in the face. The only possible fun you can have is goofing around with friends. And a game geared solely toward multi-player does not deserve my 60 bucks. And I've heard that L4D2 started out as a DLC that they decided to just turn into a sequel. And its painfully obvious. Its just a rehash of L4D1

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How is a game the is substantially better than the original in every conceivable way nothing more than a rehash? You're welcome to your opinion but I have to wonder if you've even played the whole thing. And as far as it not being worth $60, I suggest you stop buying FPS games on the 360 when they are also on the PC with it's superior mouse and keyboard interface. I only paid $45 and it was worth every penny.

You might not like dedicated multiplayer games, but I consider L4D2 to be possibly the best game this year, and certainly of continuing importance in making co-op gameplay more than an after thought by developers.

PS: The characters in L4D1 and 2 are hilarious. You are simply allergic to fun. :p

You don't need a story when there's zombies, boy! I find that L4D is incredibly fun, and there's something quite intense about relying on random strangers to save your ass.

And about the money issue - just be thankful you don't live in my country. I'd have to pay at least $90 to buy the game new. And that's on PC. And yet, I'd still pay the money, because it's just that goddamn good :)

The fact that its multiplayer isn't what bothers me. I tend to think more games need to be multiplayer. But the fact that multiplayer is the only reason its worth anything is what bothers me. And considering it looks the same and plays the same, I call that a rehash. The new additions (melee weapons, and locations) could have just as easily came up in a DLC. And the comments the comrades make aren't what bother me, except when they're bitching you shot them because -they- walked into your line of fire. And ... "Reloading!" .... "Reloading!' .... "Reloading!" every 3 seconds drives me nuts

Don't get me wrong. I'm not knocking on people who like it. I'm just explaining why I don't. I know 3 people (offline) who invested in these games and they all regret it for these reasons. The whole concept is just a pretty arcade game. They should have never been marketed as real full-fledged games

And I guess if they didn't scream "Reloading!" every couple seconds, and I had more friends to drink and game with I might have gotten more into it. But as it stands they're totally just not for me. And its not because I hate zombies or fun :P

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Originally Posted by Vyk

And considering it looks the same and plays the same, I call that a rehash. The new additions (melee weapons, and locations) could have just as easily came up in a DLC.

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So you haven't played it then. Because it doesn't look or play the same as the original. Aside from melee weapons (which require a much different play style to be effective than pistols do, and are really best for when the horde is piling on and you're holing up for a second) and locations, the primary weapons were totally different, they added new climax events which included having to run through the area to have to shut off whatever is calling the horde along with special infected specifically designed to combat the tendency to camp from the first game. If you play L4D2 like it's L4D1 you will lose, especially in versus. Add to that some of the coolest weather effects in gaming (you can't play Hard Rain, have the lightening storm kick up to the point that you can't see more than five feet and can't hear your teammates over their mics and tell me it isn't awesome or that it's a rehash) and you've got one majorly improved title.

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The whole concept is just a pretty arcade game. They should have never been marketed as real full-fledged games

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But it's as much a full fledged game as every other multiplayer only game ever made. You can say the content doesn't justify being a full fledged game, but if you're talking about the L4D games in general then they really are. I've spent more time with them than I have most RPG's. If you're talking about the additional content in L4D2 over L4D1, then again, I think it totally justifies the price given the time I've put in and the fact that all of the additions would actually break the game that is L4D1. Not only that, but five new campaigns, a dozen new weapons, three new special infected and two new game modes on top of the original three and Survival which was added later. It is very much a sequel and not even remotely in DLC territory.

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And I guess if they didn't scream "Reloading!" every couple seconds, and I had more friends to drink and game with I might have gotten more into it. But as it stands they're totally just not for me. And its not because I hate zombies or fun :P

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I'm fine with you not liking the L4D style game, but the comments you've made about L4D2 lead me to believe that you either haven't played it or haven't played it extensively. It is a very different game from L4D1, regardless of whatever impression you've somehow developed.

Extensively would be the problem I suppose. I've played through the demo and I've played a level with a friend who rented it. And I played through half the first one. The experiences didn't seem that different to me. And it is mindlessly entertaining playing through with a friend. But I get a headache from mindlessness after a while :/ But admittedly. I'm not really that much of a gamer anymore, honestly. These games possibly just came at the wrong time in my life. I barely play anything anymore. So I've got plethora of reasons not to play a lot of games. It takes the cream of the crop (or, rather, the ones that are "just right" for me) to keep me coming back

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Originally Posted by Necronopticous

The body is but a vessel for the soul, a puppet which bends to the soul's tyranny.
And lo, the body is not eternal, for it must feed on the flesh of others, lest it return to the dust from whence it came.
Therefore must the soul deceive, despise and murder men.

http://www.necronopticous.com/upload...onde-sized.jpg

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Pretentious post is pretentious. What are you talking about man?