Go fry yourself

No, not Square. Even though Wada isn't the smartest guy around, I have still managed to retain my respect for good ol' SE.

Who am I talking about then? People.

How many times in the last month have a I heard "holy :bou::bou::bou::bou:! No more towns!? This isn't an RPG! SE, you deserve to die!"

"WHAT!? You shop at a SAVE point? RIP FF..."

"It's LINEAR?! God forbid a video game be focused on a STORY."

You know what? I am fed up. This is ridiculous. First of all, most (of course, I can't say all) of these people have yet to touch this game. They are passing judgement on a product they know nothing about. People seem to be scared of change nowadays. It is either this, or they are a twitchy gamer who cannot sit still, and has to be killing something 100% of the time.

Listen. FF has always been about the story. in XIII, they decided to make it MOSTLY about the story. We are to be connected with these people, deeply moved. This is what they are focusing on.

I am just so angry right now that I don't even know how to organize my thoughts.

This game needs to be given a chance. Hold your opinions until you have payed the game. I don't judge games before I play them, and I am not going to start now. Of course, I HOPE FF XII will be great, and I am sure it will be... but I am still going in with a completely open mind. If I don't like it, I wont say otherwise.

Embrace change, buy this game and play it thinking "enlighten me, Square. Show me something new. Tell me a story." Because they will. And if you stop caring that 13 installments later, the series has gone away from it's 'roots'... maybe you will see this game for what is really is going to be.

Thank you.

(Jeeze, I feel better now!) :)

Edit: Forgot to say. Must every game be sandbox?? Why is it bad to not have HUGE world filled with pointless things to do, just so a game can say "ha! You can play me for hundreds of hours!!" Cool. Will those hundreds of hours be fun? Probably not. Linear. Does. Not. Equal. Badder. (Lol. badder.)

While I think speculation on the changes is healthy, (mostly because we have nothing better to do), I can agree with your sentiments that anyone who flips out over a game before it even ships is a little off kilter. Even if it does blow it isn't something to pop a gasket over, just don't play it again, and if it ruined your faith in the FF series just put it behind you and move on.

Some go with the flow and just play them, others bitch about the game (opposing it or supporting it). That's Final Fantasy for you.

*hugs* Thank you so much.
It is awesome to know that someone on the internet has some sense :)

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Originally Posted by Noctiluca

Some go with the flow and just play them, others bitch about the game (opposing it or supporting it). That's Final Fantasy for you.

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Every fandom has those loud dumb bitchy people! The problem is that because they're so loud you'd think they'd be the majority.

I have avoided much coverage of the game besides initial gameplay reviews from importers because I would like to judge the game myself rather than hear others' partially informed complaints or phrases.

I changed the title of the topic because I thought it sounded awfully vulgar. I apologize for any inconvenience.

No, Roogle, that's fine :) I wanted to put it softer myself but couldn't think of how lol. You're word is much better :)
Also, Vermachtnis, that was an awesome point! I have never thought of it like that before.

Heh, the same thing happened when FFXII was about to be released.

Some people don’t like change; unfortunately they seem to be the most vocal. It happens with most franchises.

If I may, a lot of those things are what is being said by japanese gamers, who have been playing for over a month, and so I would argue have better than a half-formed opinion.

I'm holding out my final judgment until I play the game, but the comments coming from people who have played it are not confidence building.

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Originally Posted by Super Christ

If I may, a lot of those things are what is being said by japanese gamers, who have been playing for over a month, and so I would argue have better than a half-formed opinion.

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Umm, source? It's been experiencing high sales, praise, and placement on "best of" lists in Japan. From what I've read, the only negative reviews seem to be from non-Japanese sources who've partially played the import.

Final Fantasy XIII - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh, and those comments from the handful of people on 2ch/4chan don't count.

It's actually difficult to get a hold of accurate scores from Japan as a quick Google search will only talk about how XIII was cheated by Famitsu by a single point, the other site that has been listing the most criticism is Sankoku Complex (sp?) and you can read those reviews on the frontsite.

One import review I read was explaining that the best way to see how the game is doing in Japan is to actually read the Amazon.com reviews for it, which are completely across the board. This of course doesn't surprise me much cause its difficult to read any official review without some hint of bias. These reviews also allow people who seriously could care less about the brand name to get their opinions out. Its obvious from reviews that XIII will be like XII and polarize the fanbase once again.

The sales of a title doesn't necessarily mean a title is good, I mean look at the 50 Cent Games. They are terrible and lauded with bad reviews yet it still sold quite a few units despite all the negativity. On the flip side Okami and Beyond Good and Evil got steller reviews and did terrible at sales.

I honestly couldn't give a toss if a few internet users either think it's the worst game ever, or if they think it's better than crack. I know better than to pay attention to dire trolls and obsessed fanboys.

I've read some independent reviews which make the game sound like it will be worth my money and right now, that's all I need to know.

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Originally Posted by Rad Bromance

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Originally Posted by Super Christ

If I may, a lot of those things are what is being said by japanese gamers, who have been playing for over a month, and so I would argue have better than a half-formed opinion.

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Umm, source? It's been experiencing high sales, praise, and placement on "best of" lists in Japan. From what I've read, the only negative reviews seem to be from non-Japanese sources who've partially played the import.

Final Fantasy XIII - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh, and those comments from the handful of people on 2ch/4chan don't count.

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Actually, FFXIIIs NPD numbers were pretty sad for for a FF game. A week after the debut it was in fourth place behind NSMBW, Spirit Tracks and Tomodachi Collection.

From talking to Japanese friends that play FFXI this isn't just a western import thing. A lot of them are overall disgruntled with the direction this title has gone.

Wikipedia isn't necessarily unreliable, but there's nothing requiring people to put in things about bad scores. I doubt every Japanese publication gave it super scores. There's also the issue of hype. Remember when Assassin's Creed got 10/10s? Sorry, it's not a 10/10 game. It's not "perfect" as some had said.

Any main series FF game not only has the hype behind it but also has clout behind it. As a result I'm sure reviewers are more apt to overlook little things and give it a pass for being what it is.... a top end SE product. I'm concerned that people may be being dazzled by the looks and other such things the way people were dazzled by the innovations of AC1 and forgot to notice that it's incredibly repetitive, has a horrible combat system and has almost no replay value.


For me, the jury is still out. I will play FFXIII, though it may have moved off of the release day purchase list. But what I'm feeling in this thread, and in this forum in general is a defensive backlash. No one wants to think that the title they've been drooling over for several years will be less than perfect... but it just might be.

If you want to decide ahead of time that it's perfect then you are no different than the people who decide ahead of time it sucks.

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Originally Posted by Yeargdribble

From talking to Japanese friends that play FFXI this isn't just a western import thing. A lot of them are overall disgruntled with the direction this title has gone.

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It is a better idea to ask people that you know that have played the game than seeking out a professional review right now. I know that with large projects like games in the Final Fantasy series that there is a lot of pressure on major gaming magazines and websites to give optimal review scores. I remember hearing something about the incredible pressure for Famitsu to give Final Fantasy XII a similarly high score as this game.

This seems to be an alarming trend even in the wake of the Jeff Gerstmann debacle. I really hope that review sites keep sounding the alarm when a company tries to buy a review (like recently happened with AC2). There are more small, independent, blog-style gaming sites these days that love to get the scoops on this stuff and try to let people know.

I'm personally sick of the whole review scoring system. Numbers mean so little. It's literally a scandal if a AAA title gets less than a 9.5/10. Even worse, almost no game gets less than a 7. That is a terrible score and might as well be a 1 from the eyes of the gaming community. I can't remember the last time I saw a game get something like a 5.

I'd rather read the review and ignore the number. I don't need the number to tell me anything about the game. If the written review mentions aspects I like or dislike I can judge them by my own personal tastes. I also find it useful to find a handful of reviewers that have taste much like my own and get their honest impressions since I'm likely to feel much the same.

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Originally Posted by Yeargdribble

I'd rather read the review and ignore the number. I don't need the number to tell me anything about the game. If the written review mentions aspects I like or dislike I can judge them by my own personal tastes. I also find it useful to find a handful of reviewers that have taste much like my own and get their honest impressions since I'm likely to feel much the same.

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So true. To me it seems the number represents production value and polish more than anything else.

Also, to put it in perspective, I know for sure I am going to be buying FFXIII. As will most people on this forum I assume. To me a review is only really useful in deciding if I should buy a game or not. For us to be focusing on review scores at this point is somewhat meaningless, as most of us will most likely be buying it anyways (and further reviews probably won't sway the ones who have already made up their minds not to).

Yeah, I really doubt that this late in the franchise there are that many fence-sitters about the series. You probably either love it and will buy the game because it's FF... or you hate it and won't buy it to spite the fact that it's FF.

Aside from that are probably the people who have been fans of the series but find their interest waning for one reason or another, but ultimately, these people will probably buy the game anyway.

I usually check reviews to get an idea of how the game works and whether it will fit my style of enjoyment. This usually allows me to avoid some level of disappointment. In the case of FFXIII, I probably will play the game despite the fact that I'm probably one of the more outspoken detractors for the game but in reality I am more concerned with the design choices and can't say it will effect my complete view of the title.

If I was going into XIII without reviews, I would probably be very disappointed when I suddenly discovered the extreme linearity and lack of proper dungeons and towns and would probably walk away from the game much like I did FFVII and X but because I know about them ahead of time, the disappointment won't hit as hard and I can instead focus on what the game does offer.

A recent good example I've seen was FF Dissidia, I have ran into a few people in the forums and outside who were terribly disappointed in the title cause the combat system wasn't like what they thought it was going to be (something like Tekken or SSBB) or were terribly disappointed of the lack of a 30+ hour epic story. I followed the game closely and discovered how the system was going to work and though I never had hopes for the plot I discovered it was about what I would imagine. Basically in the end, I feel I had a better picture of what the game was going to be like and thus was able to enjoy it cause I didn't have some naive hyped up expectations for the title. Of anything, Dissidia still surprises me with the content it does possess.

In terms of actual Review scores... I never really look at them cause as has been stated, all too often reviewers give out criminally high scores for games that sometimes don't deserve it. I remember how Crisis Core's reviews always had several complaints about its lack of difficulty and its sub par gameplay and lack of mission variety but then the reviewer would gush over how awesome it was to be back in Midgard and Nibelheim and say the story is so awesome (it isn't) that the game kept getting 9 and 10's despite the review being filled with complaints against the title. So yeah... I would say review scores should be left in the past cause they no longer serve a proper purpose.

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Originally Posted by Yeargdribble

Yeah, I really doubt that this late in the franchise there are that many fence-sitters about the series. You probably either love it and will buy the game because it's FF... or you hate it and won't buy it to spite the fact that it's FF.

Aside from that are probably the people who have been fans of the series but find their interest waning for one reason or another, but ultimately, these people will probably buy the game anyway.

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Yeah, the second one, that's kinda me. I've been a fan since FFIII, but none have really lived up to FFVII (no im not overrating it IT WAS REALLY A GOOD GAME GOD DAMMIT! To be fair i havnt played all of them). My faith in SE remains adament though as I know the FF series has been strong for over 20 years and you can bet your ass it'll be strong in the next 20 years. ill buy this installations and to the thread starter - I know how you feel about people making judgements before they play it....it pisses the rest of us off too, but remember that instead of listening to their stupid rants, you always have the choice to play it and judge for yourself.

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Originally Posted by Yeargdribble

Even worse, almost no game gets less than a 7. That is a terrible score and might as well be a 1 from the eyes of the gaming community. I can't remember the last time I saw a game get something like a 5.

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You should start reading Edge.:D

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

I usually check reviews to get an idea of how the game works and whether it will fit my style of enjoyment. This usually allows me to avoid some level of disappointment. In the case of FFXIII, I probably will play the game despite the fact that I'm probably one of the more outspoken detractors for the game but in reality I am more concerned with the design choices and can't say it will effect my complete view of the title.

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I agree. I will ask reviewers or importers of a game that I am interested some key questions dealing with my personal tastes in games. I could not care less about what the general opinion of the game is as long as it meets my own personal requirements.

I feel like, most of the time, numerical assessments are rarely reflective of the review itself because of the pressure to not give games too badly of a score. Nintendo Power and some other magazines were notorious about not giving poor scores out depending on the production value of the game. Even independent reviewers are occasionally solicited by companies for public relations if they are popular enough.

A long time ago, Eyes on Final Fantasy used to receive free merchandise for prizes for our membership base from various gaming companies, so I understand a little bit of that pressure. It's hard to post a scathing review on the site if the company just gave you some free stuff!

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Originally Posted by tidus_rox

No, not Square. Even though Wada isn't the smartest guy around, I have still managed to retain my respect for good ol' SE.

Who am I talking about then? People.

How many times in the last month have a I heard "holy :bou::bou::bou::bou:! No more towns!? This isn't an RPG! SE, you deserve to die!"

"WHAT!? You shop at a SAVE point? RIP FF..."

"It's LINEAR?! God forbid a video game be focused on a STORY."

You know what? I am fed up. This is ridiculous. First of all, most (of course, I can't say all) of these people have yet to touch this game. They are passing judgement on a product they know nothing about. People seem to be scared of change nowadays. It is either this, or they are a twitchy gamer who cannot sit still, and has to be killing something 100% of the time.

Listen. FF has always been about the story. in XIII, they decided to make it MOSTLY about the story. We are to be connected with these people, deeply moved. This is what they are focusing on.

I am just so angry right now that I don't even know how to organize my thoughts.

This game needs to be given a chance. Hold your opinions until you have payed the game. I don't judge games before I play them, and I am not going to start now. Of course, I HOPE FF XII will be great, and I am sure it will be... but I am still going in with a completely open mind. If I don't like it, I wont say otherwise.

Embrace change, buy this game and play it thinking "enlighten me, Square. Show me something new. Tell me a story." Because they will. And if you stop caring that 13 installments later, the series has gone away from it's 'roots'... maybe you will see this game for what is really is going to be.

Thank you.

(Jeeze, I feel better now!) :)

Edit: Forgot to say. Must every game be sandbox?? Why is it bad to not have HUGE world filled with pointless things to do, just so a game can say "ha! You can play me for hundreds of hours!!" Cool. Will those hundreds of hours be fun? Probably not. Linear. Does. Not. Equal. Badder. (Haha. badder.)

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>>> This happens all the time, complain and bitch about every new FF game its our job as fans..:luca:

As much as it may not sound like it from my tone, I do empathize with the OP. I think people tend to pick their favorite and least favorite installments in the franchise and hate anything that breaks that mold. The seem to forget that basically every FF has done that. That's SEs MO with the series.

I think we need to walk a careful line. I think we should be able to make individual assessments based on our personal preferences. I personally loved the battle system and world of FFXII. Hearing about extremely linearity bothers me. But that's personal.

When you go over the line and say every game is a failure since VII because they never brought back materia you're getting into the scary territory.

I try to appreciate each game individually on its on merits. Sure I make comparisons, but I've found that for all of the things I may dislike, there are things I can find that I do like. The aforementioned FFXII that I enjoy so much... I just can't make myself give a crap about the story. FFX went down this same linear path and being the first with no world map I was sickened at the game. However, in the long-run FFX ended up being one of my favorites for a great variety of reasons.

So take everything with a grain of salt. You can probably always find something you'll like. But also be wary that you don't become defensive with your own personal taste to the point that you can't admit that you miss something that the game is lacking.

Hmm, the post I recall making seems to have vanished. Anyway, my own thought is this: I enjoy the series more for the stories than the games, and I'm going to pick this up because there hasn't yet been an entry in the main numbered series I haven't liked. Yet.

My original post was basically that a lot of the negative things being said about the game are by japanese gamers, and so by people who have played the game. It, by and large, is not being bashed merely by hearsay. I'm withholding judgment until I play it, but the things being said are not building my confidence. While I prefer the story, good gameplay helps too and in my opinion that has been going downhill since they got rid of the world map in X.

[Edit] Found the post, don't know why it wasn't showing when I first looked through the thread, anyway...

Anyhow, what Yeargdribble said. Even Famitsu didn't give it a perfect score, and at this point the scores they give are pretty heavily influenced by advertising revenue. And although I hate the *chans with a passion, I do fail to see how the general sentiment on 2ch is not a reasonable barometer of the Japanese response to the game, given that it is the largest internet forum in Japan and possibly the world.

I agree with the OP about giving it a try before deciding; I just think that getting so worked up about how everyone else feels about it is overreacting just a bit - I'm guessing the original thread title was "Go f- yourself"?

There's nothing wrong with listening to opinions of those who have played the game and forming your own opinions based on them. Obviously, the extremes of outright dismissing a game or claiming it will be the best thing ever, before even playing it, are both ridiculous. But simply listening to people who have played a game (not official reviews) can give you a pretty good idea about what the gameplay is like, and every individual of course already has an idea of the type of games they like to play. So there's nothing wrong with starting to form an opinion. I have read and listened to some individual reviews of the game, and so far what I've heard has not made me very enthusiastic.

If people refused to give it a try, then I'd be critical. But just for saying they don't like some of the changes? Big deal. That doesn't mean they won't "give it a chance."

If I may add one more note - the used price in Japan has been plummeting. Many used game shops, including Geo, which I understand is the leading used game shop in Japan, is only offering 1500 yen for people trying to pawn the game, which originally released for 9240 yen. That is an incredibly fast devaluation for an RPG - in fact, it's easily the lowest valued RPG on the list. Even the 2010 editions of Fifa and NBA are being bought for 2000 yen, and sports games tend to lose their value faster than any other kind of game.

could Square learn something from western rpgs/rpg makers ?

Could they learn something from games like Infamous, Mass Effect, Dragon Age etc etc ?

I think so.

The question is do people like Wada and Kitase want to learn anything new/different that could be applied to Square and FF.

and do we want them to ?

;)

People want the same game that made them get into FF. :(

I'm going to paste what I wrote a long time ago in another thread.

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I have always thought that people on Eizon are way too tough to please when it comes to FF. Theres hardly any gaming discussion going on in this forum as it is. Ive been a member since 2003 but was browsing for years before that and I still remember everyone disliking the look of every Final Fantasy that was coming out at the time.

For a website thats dedicated to the series, one that has always been about trying something new each time, this forum is remarkably reluctant when it comes to change, and probaly the one that talks the LEAST about Final Fantasy, even compared to general gaming forums.

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Personally, i'm going to play the game for myself and see if it is good. I just get the feeling most people on this forum are way too pessimistic when it comes to new FF games.

If it sucks then it sucks. Back to the drawing board. If I want to play a game just like FF[insert number here] then I will go play that game. I'd rather try something new, even if it does suck. It's all about experiencing new stuff!

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Originally Posted by Jiro

It's all about experiencing new stuff!

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This. Final Fantasy is a series that is good because it is not afraid to try new things. If it works, they keep it and make it better. (ATB, Job system etc) and if not, they scrap it and never speak of it again (FF II stat growth and Junction system come to mind here :p)