Offensively Useless Treasures

Is it just me or, is this the one Final Fantasy game where 90% of the entire game's chests (or pots) contain useless and utterly underwhelming treasure?

I've been replaying the game, doing all the stuff I never did before, trying to do everything the game has to offer, and I've been getting all the chest, including ones you have to stray on a long out of the way path to get...only for said chest to contain 96 gil, or a potion, or a piece of armor that became useless hours before the chest was accessible.

I mean I'm having a blast doing all the extra stuff but GEEZ what were the developers thinking when choosing what to put in these chests!?!?

I believe they were trying to recreate the Item Find from Tactics as you usually have a possibility to obtain four different items per chest not counting gil. Looking at the guides charts for the treasure chests is a bit exasperating... This is one of the few elements of the game I can honestly say I really hated.

The reason is because a lot of these chests respawn, that's why the treasures they contain usually suck.

The amount of gil that's in each chest if the chest decides to give you gil is random, I think.

They expect you to get your riches from loot, unlike other FF games where most of it is from chests.

Most treasure chests are randomly generated in XII, arent they?

Treasure chests are determined by a number of things:

Chance of appearing on the map
Chance of containing Gil (amount of Gil is a random number in a range of numbers, say 200-500)
Chance of containing 1st Item (common)*
Chance of containing 2nd Item (rare)*
Whether or not they respawn

*The 1st and 2nd Item of a treasure chest changes when equipped with Diamond Armlet.

The Henne Mines treasure chest with the Zodiac Spear has the following:

10%
90%
90%
10%
No

To get the Zodiac Spear, the probability is (0.1) x (0.1) x (0.1)

(Probability of Chest appearing) x (Probability that the chest will contain an item and not Gil) x (Probability that the item is the 2nd item, the ZS)

Most of the chests have a "good" item you can find in it, but there might only be a 20% chance of actually getting it. It can be incredibly frustrating, especially for certain important items. The mechanics for the chests in FFXII were just obnoxious and should be burned so no game can ever use them ever again.

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Originally Posted by PuPu

Chance of containing 1st Item (common)*
Chance of containing 2nd Item (rare)*

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To be precise, each treasure chest has four possible items:

50% Chance for Item 1 if Diamond Armlet is not equipped.
50% Chance for Item 2 if Diamond Armlet is not equipped.
90% Chance for Item 3 if Diamond Armlet is equipped.
10% Chance for Item 4 if Diamond Armlet is equipped.

So whenever you equip Diamond Armlet, the items will (probably) change and the new %-chances are always 9:1. Some treasures, however, have the same items as Item 1, 2, 3 and 4. For example, there is one non-respawning chest before Giruvegan, which has the Estanguished Shield as all 4 items possibilities and 0% Gil Chance - ergo you will always receive ES, no matter what.

one of the game's bad points.

There are about 4 or 4 treasures you can get that are of particular value.The zodiac spear from the mines, ribbon from either the cerobi steppes or from the red chocobo and a suit of armor from the nechrol..I think that silly flaming horse drops it.Getting those items is very hard as the percentages are against you.

Ths silly game has a lot of frustrations.

:mad2:

I noticed FF12 did this too which I hated. Treasure chest with 10g? AWESOME! (not)

I didn't notice that FF13 was that bad compared to 12 in that sense.

I kinda like the randomly generated chests in FFXII. Never really had a problem with it, to be honest.

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Originally Posted by Quin

They expect you to get your riches from loot, unlike other FF games where most of it is from chests.

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I like this about the game.

If it wasn't for my obsessive need to open every chest I see (it was really hard to ignore the Zodiac Spear ones) then I wouldn't have bothered with them. I cannot recall ever getting something half way decent.

Yes, the fact that you mustn't open certain chests to get the most powerful weapon in the game is unforgivable. What's the reward for being cautious and keeping your eyes open for treasures? You can hardly get the best weapon in the game anymore. Great. I just don't get it - why isn't there any hint at all that you mustn't open these chests. A player who likes not to miss any treasures will probably never even know about Zodiac Spear (unless they look it up).

I can't say I've minded the treasure system of FFXII. More specifically, I don't miss the set treasures of past games. I think throwing probability into play makes things a bit more realistic and not so horribly predictable--that is, knowing where every good chest is in advance and what you need from it.

I suppose I like things open-ended.

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Originally Posted by Karifean

Yes, the fact that you mustn't open certain chests to get the most powerful weapon in the game is unforgivable. What's the reward for being cautious and keeping your eyes open for treasures? You can hardly get the best weapon in the game anymore. Great. I just don't get it - why isn't there any hint at all that you mustn't open these chests. A player who likes not to miss any treasures will probably never even know about Zodiac Spear (unless they look it up).

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That's not really the issue being discussed. And correct, not a soul would know the specific way to get the Zodiac Spear without the strategy guide, which the developers would love for you to buy, as is the case with any video game. :)

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Originally Posted by Rad Bromance

Is it just me or, is this the one Final Fantasy game where 90% of the entire game's chests (or pots) contain useless and utterly underwhelming treasure?

I've been replaying the game, doing all the stuff I never did before, trying to do everything the game has to offer, and I've been getting all the chest, including ones you have to stray on a long out of the way path to get...only for said chest to contain 96 gil, or a potion, or a piece of armor that became useless hours before the chest was accessible.

I mean I'm having a blast doing all the extra stuff but GEEZ what were the developers thinking when choosing what to put in these chests!?!?

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I like the system personally. Chests in FFXII, as a rule, are worthless and almost never offer anything incredable. The diamond armlet however makes things much more interesting. Circle round the Cerobi Stepp opening treasures with a diamond armlett equipped. You'll rack up tonnes of gil and aquire some very nice items.

In fairness, there are a number of set chests which do offer a nice piece of equipment or a nice weapon. As for the Zodiac spear, people act as if this is the first stunt FF have pulled like this. I remember a sword called excalibur mkII in FFIX that was equally impossible to aquire without a guide

I'm quoting cause the man brings up a valid point.

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Originally Posted by Shin Gouken

In fairness, there are a number of set chests which do offer a nice piece of equipment or a nice weapon. As for the Zodiac spear, people act as if this is the first stunt FF have pulled like this. I remember a sword called excalibur mkII in FFIX that was equally impossible to acquire without a guide

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Missing Score and Great Gospel in FFVII, un-clouding the Clouded Mirror in FFX, The Brave Blade in FFV with full stats, Adamant Armor and the Spoon Dagger in FFIV,acquiring Gungnir in FFIII, Getting Gogo in VI, Getting Quistis' ultimate Blue Magic spell in VIII, Acquiring Ultima and Zodiark in FFT, and the weakness of all the bosses in the final dungeon to the Blood Sword in FFII.

Seriously, almost every game in the series has some event or item that is easily missed or completely unknowable without a guide or having a friend with a guide. Also, this whole "SE want your money so they make this stuff so you have to buy the guide" though its true, is also kind of a silly argument considering how prevalent Fan sites and stuff like GameFaqs is in this modern age. Really, of anything, its a ruse to make you actually play the game a second time if you are hoping for a perfect file. Its a cheap way to make you want a second run-through with the exception of New Game +.

It's done much more blatantly in FFXII, though. Other games may have very difficult things to figure out, but it's not like opening an innocuous chest in the first few hours of the game completely ruins your chance of getting a weapon dozens of hours later.

Its annoying but you can get the weapon still. Just not the 100% guaranteed version. Besides, people treat it as the "end all, be all" item when really the game is easily manageable without it and is only "technically" the best game as both the Masemune and Tournesol are equally as useful and blatantly broken. Its a trophy item much like the Wyrmhero Blade.

I personally feel Excalibur 2 is more of a slap in the face than the Zodiac Spear. At least its possible to obtain ZS if you screw up with the treasure chests. Missing Score/HP Shout and Excalibur 2 are all one shot deals with no means of reacquiring without replaying an early save or hacking the game. The sheer demands for Excalibur 2 also simply suck the fun out playing IX. Its a trophy item and hardly worth the effort unless you just hate IX's story of which I would wonder why you would even bother trying to get the item.

Those knots of rust are part of Shemhaziis (I know I spelled that wrong) Soul Purge damage formula.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

I'm quoting cause the man brings up a valid point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shin Gouken

In fairness, there are a number of set chests which do offer a nice piece of equipment or a nice weapon. As for the Zodiac spear, people act as if this is the first stunt FF have pulled like this. I remember a sword called excalibur mkII in FFIX that was equally impossible to acquire without a guide

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Missing Score and Great Gospel in FFVII, un-clouding the Clouded Mirror in FFX, The Brave Blade in FFV with full stats, Adamant Armor and the Spoon Dagger in FFIV,acquiring Gungnir in FFIII, Getting Gogo in VI, Getting Quistis' ultimate Blue Magic spell in VIII, Acquiring Ultima and Zodiark in FFT, and the weakness of all the bosses in the final dungeon to the Blood Sword in FFII.

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I managed to do several of these without a guide. The Cloudy Mirror is quite easy and several of the others (esp Gogo, Great Gospel) require only exploring as much as you can explore rather than sticking to the plot - a familiar idea if you were raised on games like the Might & Magic series. And most importantly, there are in-game clues to the majority of them, however obscure. None of these (with which I'm familiar - I never got very far in FFT) are out-of-the-blue arbitrary to anywhere near the extent that the Zodiac Spear at Nabudis is.

is in the hidden area of the Henne mines if you miss getting it the first time in Nabudis.
I had to make a correction as I never got it due to opening some of the forbidden chests.
Nabudis is so hard for someone who hasn't built up just running in and getting it very early in the game while possible is remote imo.
The chances of getting it are very remote in the mines due to the low precentages involved..
Someone did post a thread on his views of how to get it....increasing the chances of getting it in the mines.
Some people claim to have gotten several such spears.
I haven't bothered trying it.

:)

I thought the whole random chest contents was really dumb, personally.

Me: Ha... I beat the extra Demon Wall! Now, the guide says Demonsbane should be in this chest... right... here... (which hasn't spawned due to bloody randomizing.)

Me: Ok, no big deal. (Goes two areas away and returns.) Ha, it's here this time! Now, let's crack open this chest and reap my Demonsb- WHADDYA MEAN 163 GIL?! I DIDN'T QUICKENING THE... all right, all right, calm down. I can make it respawn again. (Does so.)

Me: Now, at last to claim my well-deserved hoLY MOTE WHAT THE CRAP!!!!

I did eventually get the sword but it took six times longer than it should have. The randomized treasures were about the only thing I DIDN'T like about XII.

And according to the guide, the chest containing the Zodiac Spear in the Henne Mines appears 10% of the time. It's only not gil 10% of the time. And when it's not gil, the spear appears in it 10% of the time.

This adds up to a 1/10 of 1% chance of getting the Zodiac Spear in the Henne Mines.

Good luck.

The Zodiac Spear is an easter egg. It's not required, it's no better or worse than the Tournesol, and people need to stop whinging about it because they feel cheated out of getting it. Unless you've looked at a guide you wouldn't even know you had missed it and if you are looking at a guide then you know the requirements.

There are plenty of chests that offer guaranteed treasures and there are very few chests that offer a reward you can't find via other means. FFXII encourages exploration and having to pass through many areas several times, i find a respawning treasure approach keeps dungeons fresh whenever you reenter them.

Some of the chests have quite harsh odds but all i can say is, boo bloody hoo, you'll get over it

WHAM!

(After peeling self off of back wall where Shin plastered me)

I did get over it. It's just annoying.

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Originally Posted by razorrozar7

WHAM!

(After peeling self off of back wall where Shin plastered me)

I did get over it. It's just annoying.

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lol err... i didn't aim that directly at you :D

FFXII gets knocked for quite a few reasons, but the Zodiac Spear and Gambits are two pet ones that really irritate me

I personally loved gambits, especially when you have to backtrack through an area you've outgrown. Sure beats button-mashing.

I know this is one old thread but since i have finished ffXII recently i was browsing this forum. Personally i have very few of the rare items mentioned and I know there are a lot of them just by looking at the licence board.
Anyway, speaking or rare items i have only managed to get ribbon (which is an extremely helpful accesory), the ensanguined shield and the ring of renewal (another good accesory that boosts defence). I got all of them in the hidden area in Henne Mines (the one which leads to zodiark) by reentering the area 3 or 4 times. This random respawing treasure system the game uses gave me each time from very useless to very usefull items.

Now I am exploring the upper part of Great Crustal but so far i managed to get only i maximilian armour. Does anyone know how can i get the diamond armlet (which according to your posts raises the likelihood of rare items to appear) ?

You gotta give the guy credit for finding this thread. Nice.

You can find it in the Dalmasca Estersand. If you have any more questions, you'll probably have a better chance of getting them answered by making a new thread. Most people don't tend to come back to threads they made two years ago.