I'm Captain Basch fon Ronsenburg of Dalmasca!

Would it have bothered you if Basch was the original protagonist as was initially intended? Vaan was added at the last minute because for some reason Square-Enix thought having a younger protagonist appealed to the teenage demographic.

It kind of does, me being a teenage demographic statistic and all, but not when he speaks for the first 13% of the game then does nothing for the rest!

FFXII would be getting a lot less hate, and people would be giving it the glory it deserves for the great atmosphere, music, and gameplay.

I'm sick to death of young plucky heroes with obnoxious voices. I would have loved that game so much more if Basch was the protagonist, he's already one of my favorite characters. It would have added a lot of depth to the game, imo.

I agree with The Abominatrix. Especially considering that Vaan became irrelevant at some point in the game, Basch as the lead would have been a welcome change of pace and more linked with the actual story.

I am one of the few that actually liked at least the idea of Vaan's character: here's a kid who had let his circumstances act as an excuse for not doing anything productive with his life. He gets caught up in the plot to restore Dalmasca and in so doing is given the opportunity to develop talents that he would not have had he remained a street rat in Rabanastre. It is a coming of age story of sorts, though far more subtle than the heroic characters we are used to seeing.

That said, he is arguably worse-developed than most of the party (except perhaps Fran). And yes, he does become an irrelevant character from the standpoint of the game's primary plot.

His dialogue is also often cringeworthy, even more than usual IMO because of the intended seriousness (as opposed to many FF characters who are almost portrayed as caricatures of themselves).

I find that pretty much all the characters lose their part in the story at some point, all except of course Ashe who is the only character to have any real connection to the plot.

But it doesn't matter. Each character has their reasons for being there and that is essentially what is important. Would it matter if i controlled Bash in towns instead of Vaan... no, not really. I don't like one more than the other so it wouldn't make a difference to me. Ashe or Balthier however i'd prefer simply because i <3 them

Basch would have been the better main character, he's awesome and he is closely linked to Ashe. would have made sense

I like Basch a lot, but I don't know if I'd like him to be the main character. I don't really know if I consider Vaan to be the main protagonist either.. at the end of the day it's probably Ashe? idk.

I would've liked Basch being the main character, it would've matched the warring grit of the rest of the game. Vaan seemed like he was more or less along for the ride, gaining experience that would be invaluable during RW, but not the most important character of FFXII. Basch was the manly, general that I felt should've been the hero. Besides, how cool would the story have been if you started off escaping from prison after you where set up by your twin brother?

I would've liked Basch as the lead purely so everyone else would be happy. I honestly didn't care what happened so long as my lovely Balthier was on screen. Which wasn't nearly often enough to be honest.

I guess if there's no Vaan then there's no Penelo either. I think the game would also have benefited without Ashe too.

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street rat in Rabanastre

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"You're a street rat. I don't buy that. If only they looked closer. Would they see a poor boy? No sirree.

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I guess if there's no Vaan then there's no Penelo either. I think the game would also have benefited without Ashe too.

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Oh, come on!

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Originally Posted by Depression Moon

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street rat in Rabanastre

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"You're a street rat. I don't buy that. If only they looked closer. Would they see a poor boy? No sirree.

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I guess if there's no Vaan then there's no Penelo either. I think the game would also have benefited without Ashe too.

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Oh, come on!

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Let me say it one more time I don't think you heard me.

I think the game would also have benefited without Ashe too.

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Originally Posted by Sagensyg

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Originally Posted by Depression Moon

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street rat in Rabanastre

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"You're a street rat. I don't buy that. If only they looked closer. Would they see a poor boy? No sirree.

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I guess if there's no Vaan then there's no Penelo either. I think the game would also have benefited without Ashe too.

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Oh, come on!

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Let me say it one more time I don't think you heard me.

I think the game would also have benefited without Ashe too.

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Oh... initially i thought you were being sarcastic... errm... so how would the story work without ashe?

I approach XII like it was FFVI or XIII. The game really has no main character with each character having an important moment and role to play as the story goes but with really no one character actually taking on the traditional idea of a "main character role" with the possible exception of Lady Ashe since the whole plot revolves around her completely.

I feel Vaan only gets main character status cause he's the only lead you can use in towns and you start the game as him. For many that's enough to warrant the title.

Also, how the hell does XII work without Ashe? Her story is the plot of XII. :objection:

I'm kind of leaning towards wanting Basch as the main character, just to get away from the teenage pretty-boy lead syndrome some of the newer games have been afflicted with. That said, I do not mind Vaan so much. He certainly annoys me far less than Tidus did.

Yes, I'm glad they changed it. Vaan isn't perfect but he has a naiive perspective on things that makes him more relatable to the player, as he understands less about the world than say Ashe or Basch, just like we do.

Basch was just too cliche, it would've been less interesting to have him as the protagonist although the game would have a completely different feel to it if he was, I think.

When I clicked reply, I was going to say that perhaps Vaan's being the main character was essential for the players to get into Revenant Wings sufficiently. But then I remembered that the sequel to VII is based on a character which it is not even mandatory to have in your party.

So now I don't know what to say.

...So I'll just shut up.

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Originally Posted by No.78

Basch was just too cliche, it would've been less interesting to have him as the protagonist although the game would have a completely different feel to it if he was, I think.

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Basch was a bit cliche but no more than 90% of FF characters.

I really would've liked to see more of what happened through his POV, like expanding on what it was like for him in the prison, and seeing the parts in between the beginning of the game to the "two years later" thing, and possibly seeing other underused parts of the game such as Nabudis. On a quick sidenote, that probably would've meant Reddas getting more screentime rather than him just kind of...appearing like he did.

Vaan and by extention Penelo were nothing but fanservice to Squeenix's target audience. For whatever reason the Japanese really seem to like young, androgynus boys and inappropriately cheerful Mary Sue characters, which didn't ruin the game for me, but kind of cheapened it. This was the first FF in awhile where I was actually interested in the story, and somehow with Vaan taking the lead it felt a bit chopped up and dumbed down.

Then again, Balthier probably wouldn't have been nearly as relevant if it wasn't for Vaan's presense, but it's all just speculation anyhow.

I'M CAPTAIN BASCH FON RONSENBURG OF DALMASCA

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Originally Posted by Sagensyg

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Originally Posted by Depression Moon

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street rat in Rabanastre

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"You're a street rat. I don't buy that. If only they looked closer. Would they see a poor boy? No sirree.

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I guess if there's no Vaan then there's no Penelo either. I think the game would also have benefited without Ashe too.

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Oh, come on!

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Let me say it one more time I don't think you heard me.

I think the game would also have benefited without Ashe too.

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Actually, I agree.
I really didn't see how she was the main character anyway. Sure the main objective in the story was to get her back to the throne but I still don't really remember her standing out as a main character.
Then again, it's been a while since I played XII.

Ashe was basically there to say "Okay, let's go to ___ to retrieve ___ so we can go to ___ and then ___"

Basch is a better character and more relevant. Vaan was worthless. As was Penelo.

If Basch was the main character, we wouldn't have the bit this thread title came from.

So, no, Vaan stays.

We would have still had that part, its not like Basch wasn't in the party at the time.

Really, when you start to look at his whole backstory it seems to me the game left it all to him from when they were planning to be the main character. He abandons his home as it was conquered by the Empire, joins Dalmasca's knights and rises to the rank of Captain, fails to protect his future king and is betrayed by his brother and framed for the murder of his liege where he is imprisoned in a dark cell for several years while the world moves on. He is set free by a street orphan and a sky pirate and now has the chance to save the princess and Dalmasca while battling the empire that stole everything from him.

This scenario is pretty much on par with Cecil, Terra, and Cloud's storylines.

Its a pretty good story that could have easily carried the game. I feel if Basch had been the lead, the story may have been darker and probably closer to Tactics and Vagrant Story in terms of grimness and complexity.

Also, people who feel Ashe served no point in the plot seriously didn't pay attention to XII's story. Its like saying X's story wouldn't change without Yuna. :roll2

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Also, people who feel Ashe served no point in the plot seriously didn't pay attention to XII's story. Its like saying X's story wouldn't change without Yuna. :roll2

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All removing Yuna would do is get rid of the nonsense with Seymour. The true crux of X's plot revolves around Auron.

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

All removing Yuna would do is get rid of the nonsense with Seymour. The true crux of X's plot revolves around Auron.

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While I can see your point, one might argue that if not for Tidus and Yuna, Auron would have had no reason to remain unsent.

Only way

YouTube - Mega64: Final Fantasy XII

comment if you've seen or like

Rather the main be either Ashe or Basch, and bring in to two more characters more relevant to the story. Penelo and Vaan would not have stuck out that oddly if they were just add ons that joined later in the game.

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Originally Posted by Coolhowi

Only way

YouTube - Mega64: Final Fantasy XII

comment if you've seen or like

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I've seen that I dunno how many times and I still don't know what that fat guy's problem is.

Also as far as I'm concerned Ashe is the main character.

i find my self useing vaan alot, but cant seem to get the guy, either basch or ashe would be good leads but i prefer the leading man him self.

vaan was standing in ffront of balthier and died right as balthier shot a wolf, i had to pause the game cus i started laughing.

Definitely this game would have been better is Bash had been the leading man. Vaan could die halfway through the game and no one would even notice because he doesn't do anything relevant!

I liked Basch he was a strong charecter like Auron or Snow (battlewise) and they don't really make good leading characters so I can see why vaan was put in late on, it would have bothered me more if Vaan was the lead in the previous ps1 titles which were more reliant on charecter developement.

I would of liked to of seen Balthier as the leading man. I sky pirate mini-game would of been good where you got to go treasure hunts -the chocobos.

That reminded me of the most annoying part of XII, on topic I agree with you completely. though baltheir is the (self-proclaimed) leading man already

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Originally Posted by TheAbominatrix

I'm sick to death of young plucky heroes with obnoxious voices. I would have loved that game so much more if Basch was the protagonist, he's already one of my favorite characters. It would have added a lot of depth to the game, imo.

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YESH

I would have preferred Basch as a main character. They could have easily brought Vaan and Penelo in some other way if they were that desperate for younger characters.

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Originally Posted by Crowseye

I am one of the few that actually liked at least the idea of Vaan's character: here's a kid who had let his circumstances act as an excuse for not doing anything productive with his life. He gets caught up in the plot to restore Dalmasca and in so doing is given the opportunity to develop talents that he would not have had he remained a street rat in Rabanastre. It is a coming of age story of sorts, though far more subtle than the heroic characters we are used to seeing.

That said, he is arguably worse-developed than most of the party (except perhaps Fran). And yes, he does become an irrelevant character from the standpoint of the game's primary plot.

His dialogue is also often cringeworthy, even more than usual IMO because of the intended seriousness (as opposed to many FF characters who are almost portrayed as caricatures of themselves).

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I'm inclined to agree. In theory, the need for a character like Vann is understandable. His lighthearted, loveable raggamuffin character type should have lent some humor to an otherwise dark story and helped to develop the characters who were more withdrawn--all the while maturing his character. In theory, Vann's character type is necessary. In practice however, the game's creators undershot by a mile and produced a poorly written character whose role wasn't as significant as it should have been.

I love this game(in my mind, it earns an 8.5/10), but I can easily see how it could have improved with casting Basch as the lead---or not making a main character at all, but rather having the whole cast represent the protagonist element of the story and divide time amongst all of them to validate their roles in the story. Sometimes i've thought about doing a fan novelization of this game for fun, and if I were to I would opt for the latter choice of shared importance amongst the cast(and also try to develop the characters that were neglected during the series). The game practically screams to be made into a book---but that's just a book nerd's opinion. ;)