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I love ff games and am really looking forward to playing ff13 when it gets delivered (in 3 days time-too long!!).
But i also love zero punctuation reviews on theescapist.com who is known for disliking jrpg's and hes done a review of ff13 which is hilarious so i had to post a link here, watch it and laugh!
The Escapist : Video Galleries : Zero Punctuation : Final Fantasy XIII
ciao
Can't disagree with him even though he talks way too fast.
Very amusing:p
I'll admit, I don't particularly like him...he typically bores me, but every now and then he has had reviews that made me laugh.
This was not one of them. This was way too predictable and contains cringeworthy amounts of trying too hard. Also, the fact that he starts out by saying "I only played five hours and I hate jrpgs" doesn't exactly make his review sound like anything more than your average whiny, bitching to the chior youtube nerd.
But it's Yahtzee, and for one reason or another he has legions of fans who automatically label anything he craps out as comedic genius. Ho hum.
In fairness, he has some valid points with many of the games he reviews, even if you disagree with his opinion. I find myself actually agreeing with much of his take on the first five hours of this game so far. I will complete it before I make any kind of final judgement, but as it stands, the start of this game is almost painful even for me and I've played and loved JRPG's for about 18 years.
Apart from his point on how the game is paced slowly he can kiss my zombie a$$ :zombert: If you don't like RPG's then you won't like Final Fantasy XIII ya dumba$$!
The reason why I enjoy RPG's & to a lesser extent GTA style games (I hate the expression sandbox game!) is because the story mode/single player mode/campaign mode isn't over in a mere 6-8 hours. I mean I just spend €45-€52 on a brand new game I'd like it too give me my monies worth! I want a game to give me minimum 30 hours gameplay. MINIMUM 30 HOURS PEOPLE! Final Fantasy XIII has thus far provided such & I'm only at Chapter 11! (Mind you the last 8 hours of play have been grind grind grind :bigsmile: )
I love his reviews. Very honest and doesn't mince words (sort of like Fang!) and one of the few people that makes me genuinely "LOL".
He's got some fair points, but certainly needs to play for more than 5 hours. For one thing I'd love to hear his thoughts on the ending (which there is already a thread about so no need to spoilerify this thread)
Being perfectly fair here, but I can see where he's coming from. If a game takes more than five hours to become enjoyable then there's a problem because no one should have to wade through 5+ hours of boredom so they can get to the good stuff. Honestly, the only things that have me still playing are that people say it gets better and the FF fan in me won't let me drop it without at least beating it. But if this game didn't have Final Fantasy on the box I probably would have put the disc in it's case and gave it back to the friend I borrowed it from by now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudane
I can kind of understand why people feel that way because there have been games that disappointed me by being too short. But there are also games that manage to pack more fun into a few hours than most games can in 40+.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shattered Skull Drainer
I honestly had more fun with God of War III in the first 15 minutes than I have so far in the first 4 hours with FFXIII. By the 4 hour mark in Heavy Rain, I was literally having my mind blown and having to take breaks because the game was so intense and so much fun. And don't even get me started on Portal. As far as I'm concerned, I'll take a mind blowingly awesome 8 hour title over a ho-hum 40 hours. Some games can pull off 30+ hours, but most just drag on, and a lot of games shouldn't even try to be that length. Hell, even FFVI (my favourite RPG of all time) runs well under 25 if I take my time.
It is fair enough, it actually takes 20-30 hours to get interesting which is ridiculous really. 5 is a bit weak IMO but after 20 it'd be well justified.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vi-ViPOBeing perfectly fair here, but I can see where he's coming from. If a game takes more than five hours to become enjoyable then there's a problem because no one should have to wade through 5+ hours of boredom so they can get to the good stuff. Honestly, the only things that have me still playing are that people say it gets better and the FF fan in me won't let me drop it without at least beating it. But if this game didn't have Final Fantasy on the box I probably would have put the disc in it's case and gave it back to the friend I borrowed it from by now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudane
He also has a good point about having to read the journal thing to actually understand what's going on. Most of the exposition *is* integrated into the game later on, but far from all of it.
Of course, this is all taking a humorous review way too seriously...
Yahtzee needs to stop reviewing and stick to making games. He's far better at that.
But his reviews are always serious. They're just presented in a funny way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudane
And as far as I know arcanedude, he still does work on games, but hasn't released anything in a while so you're right in that respect. Though Trilby's Notes was terrible.
Haven't gotten to that one yet, so I can't say. But 5 Days was one of the best free internet games I've ever played.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vi-ViPOBut his reviews are always serious. They're just presented in a funny way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudane
And as far as I know arcanedude, he still does work on games, but hasn't released anything in a while so you're right in that respect. Though Trilby's Notes was terrible.
On the subject of the review itself, the only points I really agreed with were the linearity and Vanille being a terrible character.
Interesting? What's so horribly interesting about that monster hunting game that every fanboy keeps going on about like it's the most awesome feature ever? It's just waking across grassy plains and locating stones and monsters. I didn't see the monster arena in FFX get this much praise and that was the same, minus the walking back and forth. At least you got to fight some huge and hard bosses like the Dark Aeons. Here they bait you with the titan, which you don't even get to fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudaneIt is fair enough, it actually takes 20-30 hours to get interesting which is ridiculous really. 5 is a bit weak IMO but after 20 it'd be well justified.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vi-ViPOBeing perfectly fair here, but I can see where he's coming from. If a game takes more than five hours to become enjoyable then there's a problem because no one should have to wade through 5+ hours of boredom so they can get to the good stuff. Honestly, the only things that have me still playing are that people say it gets better and the FF fan in me won't let me drop it without at least beating it. But if this game didn't have Final Fantasy on the box I probably would have put the disc in it's case and gave it back to the friend I borrowed it from by now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudane
I've been agreeing with Yahtzee for XIII more than I would care to admit. I've really tried hard to like this game but goddamn... Its like trying to love a dog that hates you and pees on everything you own. You try to hug it and all it does is bite you in retaliation. :cry:
Yeah, I don't care if its an RPG, games should grab you by the proverbial "stones" the moment you start playing. Not promise to be good 10 or 20 hours in. :mad:
Oh the Cieth stones weren't interesting, they were filler (and boring until the circle is unlocked). But the story in general picked up with Pulse IMO, as well as the general scenery.
If there's one thing that's surprised me most about this game, it's the number of people who like it and make excuses for it not being fun from the start, or the very few who basically tell me I'm crazy for not liking it right off the bat. If it took about an hour to really get going I could probably forgive that, but every time I look at the game clock now I can't help but think that I could have played through Portal again in the time I've spent waiting for the good stuff to start.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
And is it just me, or are there some cut scenes in this game that look fun enough that they should have been playable? When Lightening and the others were trying to escape in an airship early in the game I found myself wishing I could have piloted it because it looked like it was more fun than anything in the game thus far. I think it would have made a fun little mini-game.
But then you wouldn't have been able to fully appreciate the graphical wonder that the producers wanted it to be. I speak sarcastically, but this is 100% the truth.Quote:
And is it just me, or are there some cut scenes in this game that look fun enough that they should have been playable? When Lightening and the others were trying to escape in an airship early in the game I found myself wishing I could have piloted it because it looked like it was more fun than anything in the game thus far. I think it would have made a fun little mini-game.
FFXIII is hardly a graphical wonder. It does look good and well-polished, but that's about it. It looks exactly what you'd expect from a big-budget console game.
Which is the funny thing about making the graphics driving force in the game.
Guilty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vi-ViPO
I dunno.... I think after FFXII, *anything* was going to be brilliant by comparison, IMO (I know, some people said it was the best one. Generally people who didn't like Final Fantasy).
It's even to the point of a bit of desperation to have a good FF again.. I think if you want something to be good badly enough, you see it through rose tinted specs. See Windows 7, when everyone was itching to move on from XP and scared of Vista's rep. (7 is actually very good on a technical and personal experience basis, but is not as "OMG YAY groundbreaking" as some are making out)
Looking at it logically, it's poor. It took most of the game to get started, then just as it was getting exciting (after a grinding session) it sent you back to Corridor World to wrap up the game. And the story climaxed in the most illogical possible way, and then ended abruptly. But I somehow found it a very fun ride still. Whether it was the after-FFXII effect or the desperation effect I don't know... I think there were a lot of other more subtle things about the game that absorbed me into it. A memorable and immersive world, I thought.
Hasn't that often been the way with FF? Technically, from a critic's angle, rubbish. And yet it somehow 'connects' with you when you're playing. The only one that sticks out as being technically excellent (XII) is the one I hated.
From what I can see here and elsewhere there is a sizeable number of people who actually think being granted a "calm lands" in 1 chapter is an amazing award for absurd amount of linear "gameplay".
I really can't imagine Final fantasy VII ever having the same amount of fanbase or reverance if it had began like XIII. In fact I am pretty sure a lot of people wouldn't have stuck around for VIII.
20 hours to get a glimpse of what you actually bought the game for (JPRG) is not exactly spectacular, nor is it fair on the paying customer. In their efforts to explore HD graphics, they decided to cut as much fat and muscle as was possible, leaving a hollow bone (but fear not, it is a hollow bone that looks wonderful lmao ).
I always think he's pretty funny. He drops some good points on games on the basis of creating a joke, but to look at him for a valid review of a video game is like going to The Onion for all your serious news. He's an entertainer first and last.
I wouldn't say that at all. Plenty of the FF titles have been utterly brilliant in their gameplay, story and pacing. Especially titles like FFIV, V, VI, IX and XII if you ask me. Some titles have somehow gained a large fanbase despite numerous flaws, but even those usually had some aspect that sort of made up for the problems, or some charm that shone through the flaws. I'm not sure FFXIII has any, but then again, I wouldn't put it past me to just have a much lower tolerance for bad game design now than I did even five years ago. It's probably what I get for wanting to be a game designer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudane
What do you mean by immersive world? The big tunnel called "Pulse", or chapter 11? Because there's a big difference between being immersed in the game or in the world itself (which is very, very bland).Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudane
Also I don't see what you mean by FF games being technically bad. Like the poster above already said, the previous FF games did a lot of things right on the criteria we judge games on. I wouldn't call FFXII 'technically excellent' as it had hardly any story or character development.
It's not something I can easily put my finger on. Maybe the scenery, which was a lot more interesting than, say, all of XII's bland sewers, underground station type things and forests. Sure it was mostly corridors, but pretty ones to look at, which draws me in as a player (why would I be drawn in by boring scenery).
Technically bad as in, if you analyse the story. I wasn't very clear there. XIII's just... makes no sense by the time you've got to the end and look back on what just happened. VIII is another good example (Ultimecia made little sense, time travel is usually a plothole in itself and it needed the "R=U" theory which I seem to recall Square had actually denied, to make sense of it). VII to some extent due to not being told very clearly, although this was fixed (with a debatable amount of retconning) in Advent Children.
I'm not a story analyser, but I've seen time and time again XII hailed as superb due to the story and characters being realistic with proper dark human flaws, like Ashe being pretty much as bad as the "bad guys", and the whole thing being a bit of a grey area anyway where there's no 100% definable "good/evil". Supposedly everything was tied together very well too. The characters are usually described as being "refreshingly subtle". Generally this all tends to be seen as "good technically" in a story from what I've seen.
Personally I couldn't stand it because I couldn't feel much of a connection with the characters, they were just this bunch of people I happened to be controlling. Worse, I constantly wanted someone to give Ashe a slap because I found her immensely spoilt, stroppy and unlikeable. And although some of it was good, I found most of the scenery boring (it didn't help that some areas were ridiculously long!)
Difficult to put into words. To each his own I guess; just because you lot hated XIII doesn't mean I have to, regardless of its flaws :)
Too bad that's one of the weaker 0.'s he's made :p.
VII seems to be told well....the translation was bad. Which things did they retcon?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudane
I'm going to have to disagree and give a counterpoint why you should never design dungeons like X/XIII or "Tube world" as they should be called.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudane
The reason I like XII's dungeon/world design better is that the scale for me adds a ton more immersion cause its actually feels real. You get to explore these massive lands and monolithic dungeons and by god do they feel massive and monolithic like they are described and appear to be to the player. I can't get that out of the the other two titles, sure they are pretty but it soon becomes quickly apparent you are caged in on a simple road and all the beauty is simply just "wallpaper". I can't tell you how many times I was trying to explore in XIII's world and wishing I was off in the distance cause it felt like something more interesting was going on over there.
The spell of immersion easily smashed when you walk over to a place that should be easily accessible from sight (worse in XIII since your party can jump around structures) but find out you can't cause its not real, its just the wallpaper decorating the road. Its pretty, but its soulless and does nothing to help me care for the world. Getting to Gran Pulse in XIII, I never really wanted to go back to Cocoon cause GP felt so much more real than the rest of the game and I kept asking myself why the game couldn't be more like this. Even the story doesn't really justify the titles claustrophobic design, as your party is basically pursued by "boogie-men" for most of the game.
The terrible dungeon/world design has done nothing to help me feel for XIII's world, I feel FFI and FFII have far more immersive and interesting worlds than XIII has and that's sad when a twenty year old game with a town called "Elftown" is a much more immersive and fun place than a modern title using the highest scale graphics and a team 50 times larger to build it. We're in the modern age of gaming, we should be using technology to give the player more control and choice in games, not restrict them for the sake of story. I feel choice will create an immensely more immersive experience for the player over a world stripped of it with shiny wallpaper to compensate for it. One makes the player feel they are controlling and truly interacting with the world while the other makes them feel like they are on a poorly managed movie set where the lighting and raffling can be seen holding the scenery up.
I forgot how much I hate this man.
Thanks for imbedding that in my head.
Agree with all your points there, except I still think FFX had an immersive world because of the towns and interaction with NPCs.
Maybe I'm just eager to like an FF again. Whatever, I enjoyed it.
It's debatable (and probably will be as everyone seems to have opposite opinions to me ITT!), but if you follow the well-reasoned theory that Jenova was the one pulling the strings and Sephiroth was the puppet, they retconned that as he is stated to be the one behind everything in ACQuote:
Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2VII seems to be told well....the translation was bad. Which things did they retcon?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudane
FFX was very well made and had side distractions like the Cloister of Trials. Now that was a cool "dungeon". FFX on the whole was far better and was open, did not force you forward and had numerous towns and villages. I don't see how that can be compared to XIII. Also, unlike XIII, the calm lands in X had multiple secret areas and minigames/sidequests
That wasn't a retcon, it was what was happening even in the original translation....it mde it clear that Sephiroth was using the power of Jenova in order to give his real body the black materia...There is overwhelming evidence to that effect in the storyline itself and so stating clearly what was happening is not retconning- it is merely verifying what most people already thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudane
And if the other was Tseng "being brought back alive" that was a poor translation that said he was dead when in fact he wasn't....
Hey seifer, you played XIII yet?
I can play it on my cousins Xbox but I refuse to (indeed he also hates it and will be selling it soon)...I have seen and read all I need to. Maybe in a few months I will sit down and play the first few chapters (rent XIII) but my priority now is getting Blue dragon/ Lost Odyssey.
Tbh I don't think I will be able to stomach the game and so it is way way down my list of things to play (I am not even a real gamer anymore, and am dedicating huge amounts of time to FFVII projects)
:D
You should probably play it a bit before you continue your smear campaign. Some of the things you said in your last post are flat-out false, particularly in regards to FFXIII lacking a Calm Lands-like area with secret areas and side quests.
This isn't even the first post I've seen you making misinformed/made up claims about the game. Honestly, what's your deal?
I honestly don't feel that the comparison between XIII and X in terms of linearity is justified. XIII is way, way more linear than X was. I admit that X was linear, both in story and in the path you took along it. But it was far, far more open than XIII is. You had to go from A to B to progress, but you could at least move around while doing so.
Remember when you first arrive in Spira? You land in the water and start to explore this strange new world. There is only one way out, but you can move around, find treasures and hints about the world before you take head to that one way. In Kilika Woods, or the Besaid path, there are multiple paths to take, offering some freedom of control for the player.
In XIII, there is no freedom of movement at all. The corridor is so narrow, your party couldn't even walk side-by-side along it. There is zero exploration for the world. There is no way to explore, let alone rewards for doing so. There is, in fact, no reason to even let you have control outside of combat. There is a straight path, you travel it in one direction, and you get in the same number of fights whether you have control or not.
Maybe FFX had a one way corridor for 90% of its paths, but at least it wasn't a straight line. Even the Mi'hen Highroad had offshoots to explore. It also had some width to it, allowing your characters to move side to side if they wished, to allow NPCs to pass by the characters, or random battles to break up the monotony.
FFXIII just feels wrong. The path is everything. Fights are structured into the path. You see them coming from a mile away, and you will fight the same number of enemies no matter how you choose to proceed (although, really, you don't have any options about how to proceed). NPCs also are built into the path. There is no life to them. They feel like the ruins and statues you pass. Each one structured so specifically into the corridor that you feel like they'd die if they had to move. And no matter how brilliant the main characters sound, everyone else is stuck without voice acting and without any compelling dialogue.
FFXIII doesn't feel like an RPG, it feels like a rail shooter that has its foot on the breaks. The world outside of battles and cutscenes just doesn't exist. A battle and cutscene montage would be preferable.
Coin a new genre, on-rails RPG?
Using Yahtzee as a review source is pretty much stretching it. I usually watch him for the laughs, nothing more. Sure, he makes salient points but they are often hyperbolic. I mean, at least he's open about his hatred of JRPGs (though he did end up saying nice things about TWEWY). :/
Also, I more or less completely disagree with Skyblade. FFXIII does allow you to explore as much as FFX did, especially in the later chapters. Battles are easily avoidable for the most part. I can run through Oerba and avoid all the Cie'ths. I concede that unlike FFX, FFXIII doesn't allow you to revisit past places post-/end-game with the exception of Gran Pulse and Eden.
Also:
Gran Pulse >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Calm Lands.
I hated crossing the Calm Lands. Gran Pulse is such a pleasure.
I have 3 points to make!
1. I have to say having played both games FFX had a way more linear feel! Yeah sure FFX had proper towns & villages but you could only ever go 2 ways backwards & forwards along the linear path! Spira didn't really become a world you could freely roam & explore until FFX-2 which was a shame considering FFX-2 wasn't really that good, although I do have a certain fondness for the fast paced battle system FFX-2 had! I have to say I like FFXIII a lot more then FFX story wise. Everything that happen in FFX was totally predictable & the story was a lot more linear then FFXIII (although I've yet to FFXIII, still on Chapter 11, so I'll reserve judgment on its story until I finish). You move along a set path which results in the final battle with Sin. I mean Seymour was obviously evil, Yevon was obviously corrupt blah blah blah blah blah! The only thing that surprised me at all was the revelation about Tidus in the end. The only redeeming quality FFX's story had was the development of the relationship between Tidus & Yuna that was the only part of the story I ever felt a connect with! FFX was an epic RPG experience for it's time but don't use it as subject matter to poke holes in FFXIII because FFX in itself wasn't exactly perfect!
2. FFXIII is basically the best elements of FFX, FFX-2 & FFXII all rolled into one! The Crystarium is essentially the Sphere Grid from FFX. I always felt the sphere grid was a much better way of developing characters skills then simply leveling up. I believe it gives the player a far better means of customization of the games characters.
The paradigm system is definitely based around the way you could switch between characters like in FFX but instead of each character having a specific job FFXIII gave them ability classes.
The fast paced style of the battles is very reminiscent of FFX-2 which as I mentioned above I loved. I mean I like turn based RPG's but hell even with the battle speed on it's highest the battles in FFVII-FFIX could be slow as $hit sometimes.
And finally the battle system in FFXIII is basically an automatic version of the gambit system from FFXII. I wasn't a fan of the gambit system & used it very rarely in the 400+ hours I clocked up on FFXII. If one thing has annoyed me about the gameplay in FFXIII it's been that sometimes the "auto gambit" doesn't make intelligent choices eg. A Medic casts Cure 5 times instead of Curasa 5 times & the enemy's next attack does enough damage to take away the health restored by the casting of Cure 5 times! And since you can't manually choose the attacks & actions of anyone but your party leader you can't rectify the situation:mad2:
3. One of the chief reasons FFXIII gets so much stick is because FF internet fan boys/girls are still holding out for their FFVII remake thats never gonna happen & until they get it they'll systematically find fault in every new Final Fantasy game released for no good reason! BOOM!
The crystarium is nothing like the sphere grid. The sphere grid lets you choose however you want to customize your character when it comes to stats and skills. The crystarium only lets you pick between 3 different stats, and it doesn't allow you nearly as much choice. It's essentially the old leveling up system where the player gets to do the work.
Also the reason why FFXIII gets so much hate is because it sucks, even though the fanboys seem to love it because it has fast and flashy battles. FF7 has nothing to do with a lack of a proper storyline, characters, immersion or gameplay that FFXIII is suffering from.
I can't speak about later chapters, but I'm in chapter 6 now I believe and we must be playing different games. Whether it opens up later or not, so far it has been far, far, FAR more linear than X was even at it's worst. I wouldn't mind as much if it meant the story kept moving at a good pace the way it should in a linear game, but that's a whole other can of worms.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Summoner of Leviathan
Also, the battle system finally got marginally interesting at around the 7 hour mark last night. It's still got nothing on some of the better previous games in the series but at least it's making it more tolerable. I just shouldn't have had to wait so long for it to get interesting. If this were any other FF I'd be at least almost a quarter of the way through by now. With some of the older ones, I'd be closer to being half way through. I shouldn't have to wait that long for the game to get enough strategic depth that there's actually some minor value in selecting my own abilities.
'the game' doesn't open up. It's one of the most stupid points brought up by the fanboys. It's just chapter 11 that allows you to explore Gran Pulse. After that it's straight back to the Cocoon tunnel. You only can go back to GP through a warp portal at the end of the game.
I like FFXIII for lots of reasons and I'm not a fanboy. It is a video game, and of all the things I can bitch and whine about in the World with my time I would not choose a relatively inexpensive piece of hardware.
Any time anyone uses the word "fanboy" "fangirl" or "hater" to put down people who disagree with them, the Credibility Meter they'd been building up resets to 0 in my mind.
I wouldn't place this game anywhere near X, that would take some beating. If X had a steerable airship (RIP, wonderful concept) it'd have probably overtaken VII as my favourite.
In modern FF terms my prioritisation is probably:
VII, X, IX, XIII, X-2, VIII, XII
Ranging from "awesome", through to "average", to "ok", to "poor". But I've never really considered any of them "really bad", and I even enjoy VIII still even though it's just "ok".
If there's one truth to all the opinions here though it's that FF fans rarely agree on which ones are great and which ones suck, often to the extremes of complete opposites :)
Let's not use the tired out tactic of attacking the person rather than their argument. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Arrow
I said the "calm lands" of XIII lacking compared to X. And it is lacking compared to X. X had far more to do and it was superior. Not to mention the whole game had sidequests and NPC and villages or you gonna start saying that is a lie too? Just look at what there was to do on X:
Find Al Bhed Primas: Small sidequest through game
Cloister of trials: Part of the game and a nice puzzle, especially the side quest of destruction sphere. If you finished it a second time you got slightly more story
Destruction Spheres opened the way to get Anima, another sidequest
The Dark Aeons side quest, and penance
Sphere grid Sidequest (filling it in properly)
Monster hunt, and not just 1 area, you had to go through all the areas and collect 10 of each
Chocobo racing on calm lands
Remimen temple secret on calm lands, with a minigame chocobo racer and Magus sisters
Quest to get crest, sigil and ultimate weapons (these included other side quests like Dodging lightning, butterfly minigame etc)
Blitzball which included loads of things you could win and add to your team
Cactuer Sidequest
Stats: Power, Defence, Magic, Magic Defence, Luck and more, you know...what RPG's generally have? A sopposed to a scaled back stat list. (and even the aeons had them, and they could be increased manually)
Items that actually helped you outside of battle
4 customised slots for weapon and 4 for armour. The Sphere grid wrapped up the spells and stats nicely into 1 package.
NPC and towns and every main area is one. You get to choose if you want to go back to areas and for some side quests you will have to.
Sphere grid is superior to the whateveryoucallit on XIII. It allowed customisation and a lot of extra work at the end of the game.
Limits had small fun things you could do. Auron entered a code combination, Rikku mixed things, Tidus had a bar you pressed at correct time, Lulu used the analogue sticks, Kimari had enemy skills you had to learn, Yuna had Aeons who became part of the battle and were customised, Wakka had slots reels...WHAT DOES XIII HAVE?
You see....the whole game was well thought out and KEPT YOU IMMERSED.
These are just some of the distractions that X had, now, what does XIII have? You tell me? Because what I have seen is monster hunts (in 1 area with no real pay off compared to X) a pathetic little chocobo game as a consolation and that is it. Every review I have read makes no mention of anything else compared to the above.
All it does say is that you spend much of the game tapping autobattle.
Precisely.Quote:
Originally Posted by kotora
@Cloudane yeah I would have VII and then X as top 2. If X had a world map that you could explore, it would have exceeded all games I have played for the gameplay aspect and probably would have beaten VII overall imho. Definately X has the greatest gameplay for me in terms of all FF games.
[QUOTE=seiferalmasy2;2829093]there's over 60 lame boss monsters to kill !Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Arrow
and chocobos.
That quote was by me but yes :P
It's pretty funny over here in the Land of Fallout and Baldur's Gate seeing people argue about the relative merits and failings of linearity in FFX and FFXIII. It's like arguing about whether a color is more scarlet or red.
FFXIII has its failings, and I can't really see myself playing through the 25 hour tutorial a second time. But I like most of the characters, the world is fun to run [strike]around[/strike] along, and the battle system is fast paced and fun.
So basically it might not be some grand open-world adventure but criticizing a JRPG for linearity is like calling out an FPS because it involves shooting things.
A lot more than its linear nature has just been criticised.
FFXIII is to JRPGs what an on-rails shooter is to the FPS genre. It gives a whole new meaning to 'linear'.Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm my own BRRRAAAIINNSSS
It's like when they tied that Elven rope around Gollum's neck.
"THE FINAL FANTASY, IT BURNS USSSSS!"
I like how everyone's arguing about "distractions" like their attention span is shorter than that of a gerbil. :D
Anyone who argue that either X or XIII offered an adequate amount of exploration are delusional. FFX's "side-quests" mostly involved:
a) Things you pick up as you play through the game
or
b) Return to an old location and, hey, new monster! Let's kill it!
Granted, that's MUCH more than XIII can offer, but saying X wasn't linear is pretty much wrong.
And both the Calm Lands and Gran Pulse were obscenely annoying to traverse, and both the missions from XIII and the monster arena from X were pretty pointless and lazy ways to extend the playtime of the "has-to-do-absolutely-everything" type of player.
FFX's end game (especially the version with Penance) shares certain "qualities" with MMORPGs. It's an insane, insane grinding session that drives you to doing things like reading a book at the same time... but it's really satisfying (enough to forgive) when you get to the top.
As I said, X is linear. XIII just takes that linearity to an entirely new level.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcanedude34
Quote:
Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2
I'm not attacking you. I'm pointing out that your argument is flawed, ignorant, and misinformed.
You are still doing it. Care to enlighten us on what I have said in my recent post which is inaccurate? Care to tell me what XIII has compared to X and the things I listed? If I am spreading misinformation then here is your chance to set the record straight....address the points I have just made?Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying ArrowQuote:
Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2
I'm not attacking you. I'm pointing out that your argument is flawed, ignorant, and misinformed.
Quote:
These are just some of the distractions that X had, now, what does XIII have? You tell me? Because what I have seen is monster hunts (in 1 area with no real pay off compared to X) a pathetic little chocobo game as a consolation and that is it. Every review I have read makes no mention of anything else compared to the above.
All it does say is that you spend much of the game tapping autobattle.
Mayhaps if you played the game before spending some weeks on a Final Fantasy message board complaining about how terrible it is, you might be better informed about what said game does and does not contain.
He's right on every point though. Basically it's what all the critics say and what all the fanboys are still denying.
If I had lied to you, you would not have been any the wiser. I chose to tell you. I am repeating things (and making my own observations known) I have seen on numerous youtube vids, reviews and also developer comments. I don't think that lessens my position at all, you will notice I do not directly criticise the story because I haven't seen it in its entirety. I do know I wouldnt like it based on what I actually have read and seen from a multitude of places but I certainly won't debate it fully.Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm my own BRRRAAAIINNSSS
But if you think that means I can't debate soundly the things I have read and seen gameplay wise, purely because my hand wasn't gripping a control pad, sorry but that is yet another bogus position to hold, and of course is not debating my points. Another attempt to circumnavigate what I and others are saying.
Following that rather flawed logic, a house designer needs to be able to brick build before he can actually criticise a design plan. Sorry, doesn't work that way. if I see autobattle being pressed ona walkthrough an awful lot, am I to conclude I need to play the game before I can know that autobattle is being pressed a lot?
There is 1 thing storywise that turned me off from the start and that was flashy hollywood style graphics and scenes, like out of control battles and scene changes. I knew from the minute I saw that that the story would not be my cup of tea but I thought gameplay would save it and sadly, no, it hasn't. So far gone with the JRPG elements, the designers themselves have had to resort to explaining themselves.
If anything else, THAT should tell you right there that this game has massive flaws.
Perhaps for you, but that seems all too much like, say, schoolwork or something, with the ultimate payoff being "Wow, I did it. I'm done, so now I can go do something fun!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudane
And seifer, before I throw in my two cents on whether or not your arguments against the story are valid, have you watched all or most of the scenes yourself? Or are you going on what reviewers have said?
Oh, and for the record, yes you do end up hitting auto-battle a lot. The fun comes in assigning your paradigms and deciding which is the most useful for the current situation. In a lot of respects, this makes it the most tactical Final Fantasy in the main series yet, save perhaps X-2.
I think paradigms don't save it tbh esp since 20 hours of the game are very limited.
I am not debating the story because I don't know it, only the basic outline and the basic presenttation both of which I hate but I don't know enough about the story to form an argument.
Well how do you know the presentation if you don't know the story? Assuming you're just getting your "facts" from negative reviews, then?
I am getting the overall flavour of it from people on this forum, from reading tons of reviews, including positive ones (which generally mention graphics at every opportunity)
and of course I know about how it presents itself graphically because I have seen numerous cutscenes and playthroughs on youtube.
the video quality on youtube is not nearly as good as it would be on a HDTV, which most people will play the game on.
You just lost all credibility to me then if you aren't experiencing it firsthand by at least watching the game all the way through.Quote:
Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2
Point in case, I was one of the many people who blindly started bashing FFVIII after watching Spoony's review, as well as a few other reviews. Playing it for myself currently, I have a totally different opinion of it than I did a month ago.
I encourage you to try playing it if you're going to be posting so much about it. You may still hate it, but at least you'll be giving your own opinions rather than just regurgitating what other reviewers said.
The youtube quality can be up to 1080p and 720p and I ahve watched some of them in that quality. The quality of the game graphically is not in question. The graphics are amazing, but this isn't a question of graphics, I hold graphics personally as the least important thing about a game.Quote:
Originally Posted by zombiedude55
And as I have said, I am NOT DEBATING THE STORY ITSELF. I CANNOT DO THAT WITHOUT PLAYING THE GAME ALL THE WAY THROUGH. Which I have no intention of doing cause it is :bou::bou::bou::bou:.
I've given up hope. I am going to spam images and macros whenever he says anything now to suppress the horrible whining. Must of been caused by a rough childhood or something.
Personal attacks anyone, as opposed to constructive debate? A sure sign of a losing debate...Quote:
Originally Posted by zombiedude55
I'd have to disagree with that. Paradigms are essentially a way of telling your characters to focus on one type of ability (whether it be normal attacking abilities, attack magic, white magic etc.) and hoping the AI is smart enough to do the right thing more often than not (which it is most of the time). Unfortunately, up until Chapter 7 where I am now, it's never gotten more involved than all out attack for a bit, switch to a defensive paradigm to heal, then back to all out attack. If a battle is taking too long I might throw in some support abilities as well, and hope the AI doesn't keep throwing out ice resistance buffs against enemies with no ice attacks instead of protect or shell (I've had it do something along those lines before).Quote:
Originally Posted by arcanedude34
It's a neat system in theory, but that's because it's pretty much FFX-2's dress sphere switching system. Unfortunately, the AI and the lack of options for a big chunk of the game really gets in the way of any potential for truly deep strategy.
I was never debating anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2Personal attacks anyone, as opposed to constructive debate? A sure sign of a losing debate...Quote:
Originally Posted by zombiedude55
http://www.msbirthmom.com/.a/6a01053...d2da970b-500wi
I'd swear you're just trolling, but you spend more time posting than any other member I've seen for this just to be a laugh for you. I've made my points. Go back and read the posts. I'm not going to outline to you what you're wrong about.Quote:
Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2You are still doing it. Care to enlighten us on what I have said in my recent post which is inaccurate? Care to tell me what XIII has compared to X and the things I listed? If I am spreading misinformation then here is your chance to set the record straight....address the points I have just made?Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying ArrowQuote:
Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2
I'm not attacking you. I'm pointing out that your argument is flawed, ignorant, and misinformed.
It does get a bit better, but if it's not your cup of tea by then, then it probably wont be by the end of the game. =\Quote:
Originally Posted by Vi-ViPO
Sefier, if you're not debating story, then why did you specifically say that it's :bou::bou::bou::bou:? Troll, much? *waits for him to get all pissy and start whining about how I'm attacking him so I MUST know he's right despite not knowing what he's talking about at all*
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/u...nal/Failed.jpg
*snip* Once again, no. You know this isn't acceptable here. ~ Rye
I will take your repeated refusals to debate the subject and the points I made to mean that I am actually quite accurate in what I have said. You have had plenty of chance to take my points 1 by 1 and counter them but you refuse to. Your argument is weak.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying ArrowI'd swear you're just trolling, but you spend more time posting than any other member I've seen for this just to be a laugh for you. I've made my points. Go back and read the posts. I'm not going to outline to you what you're wrong about.Quote:
Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2You are still doing it. Care to enlighten us on what I have said in my recent post which is inaccurate? Care to tell me what XIII has compared to X and the things I listed? If I am spreading misinformation then here is your chance to set the record straight....address the points I have just made?Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying ArrowQuote:
Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2
I'm not attacking you. I'm pointing out that your argument is flawed, ignorant, and misinformed.
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...0ultrosdn8.gif
Don't feed the troll, kiddies!
http://ihasahotdog.files.wordpress.c...king-about.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2I will take your repeated refusals to debate the subject and the points I made to mean that I am actually quite accurate in what I have said. You have had plenty of chance to take my points 1 by 1 and counter them but you refuse to. Your argument is weak.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying ArrowI'd swear you're just trolling, but you spend more time posting than any other member I've seen for this just to be a laugh for you. I've made my points. Go back and read the posts. I'm not going to outline to you what you're wrong about.Quote:
Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2You are still doing it. Care to enlighten us on what I have said in my recent post which is inaccurate? Care to tell me what XIII has compared to X and the things I listed? If I am spreading misinformation then here is your chance to set the record straight....address the points I have just made?Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying ArrowQuote:
Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2
I'm not attacking you. I'm pointing out that your argument is flawed, ignorant, and misinformed.
It isn't me posting macros or personally attacking people....I am sorry that the love of this game series has blinded a lot of you into refusing point blank any arguments against it, and even what the developers are saying, but this isn't my issue, nor is the refusal to counter the points I made 1 by 1. If anyone is trolling around here it is those who have no argument at all and are trying to very old trick of attacking the person rather than the actual argument.
Please do make sure that you don't write any reviews, I had to sift through so many of them from people such as yourselves (some here), before I came to one that actually wanted to review the game properly and it really is tiresome. Also I suggest if you don't actually want to debate the game that you simply stick to the love threads, as some of you are literally foaming at the mouth.
:D
http://right-thoughts.us/images/uplo...owsyousuck.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2
You can post as many as you like, when I feel it necessary to put my point across with quotes on this game (and assuming it is ontopic and not on a love thread) then I will do so.
I suggest you learn that this is a game series and not a divine being :)
Coming from you, best post ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2
*snip* Seriously, SERIOUSLY, no. ~ Rye
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcanedude34
Called it.Quote:
Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2
Trolling is when: Choosing not to take part in pointless argument against brick wall = Admitting defeat
Translation:Quote:
Please do make sure that you don't write any reviews, I had to sift through so many of them from people such as yourselves (some here), before I came to one that actually wanted to review the game properly and it really is tiresome. Also I suggest if you don't actually want to debate the game that you simply stick to the love threads, as some of you are literally foaming at the mouth.
:D
"I had to sift through some people trying to be OBJECTIVE when all I wanted were people who hate this game so I could regurgitate what they said and pass it off as my own opinion!"
I'm not debating the game anymore, since you aren't allowed to anymore. You lost that privilege, remember?
No I read positive reviews, but a lot of them were simply:
"The graphics..."
endlessly and verbose writing style to try and mask it. The reviews that gave the game 5-7 were generally excellent (the ones that gave it 10 were generally no substance), much better written and had a mix of the good vs bad. Obviously the bad outshone the good gameplay wise for them.
Like this one:
NegasBlack's reader review of Final Fantasy XIII for PlayStation 3
That is a common theme among those giving the game 1-8Quote:
Truth be told, when playing the game, I didn't feel like I was playing Final Fantasy. Sure it has a nice story, but it doesn't capture you like it did in previous games in the series. Also the limitations placed on your team and the character you control in combat are annoying to say the least. It feels to much like the game was designed around the Paradigm system, forsaking all the things that made previous Final Fantasy games so great. Visually its gorgeous (most of the time, a few occasions where the textures are bland), the sound is great too, but story-wise and gameplay-wise, it simply doesn't deliver what you'd expect of a Final Fantasy game.
I am closing this. This has gotten completely out of hand. seiferalmasy2, demondude, stop arguing and baiting each other. And demondude, those images you're posting are worse than anything seiferalmasy has been saying in response to the argument. Let the moderators take care of this, don't troll others with those images. I'm not warning anyone again on this.
Has it ever occurred to you that some people may genuinely have liked the game for what it was and didn't have their opinions spoonfed to them by reviews?Quote:
Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2
[IMG]file:///C:/Users/Alex/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG]
And you too, arcanedude. No more troll baiting or arguing.