Just give it a TRY damn it!

So, why the heck didn't Yevon use Vegnagun against Sin...in 1000 years no one thought "Ok fine, let's just give it a go, what's the worst that could happen"?

I know they say that it can't tell friend from foe when activated, but why not just do an operation Mi'ihen style thing, and stick Vegnagun infront of Sin and turn it on. Even if it didn't win, at least they gave it a try. Even if it did win, I'm sure it would be damaged enough for the rest of the Mi'ihen troops to destroy it.

So, thoughts on why no genius even thunk of the plan?

Because it would've destroyed the whole smurfing planet along with Sin.

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Originally Posted by PuPu

Because it would've destroyed the whole smurfing planet along with Sin.

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I dunno...he was a bit of a wimp when I faced him in X-2. I don't think he was so tough.

But he was still tough enough to destroy Spira. If you didn't kill Vegnagun within a certain time limit, Shuyin would fire Vegnagun's cannon and destroy Spira.

Because yevon cant see too well

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Originally Posted by PuPu

But he was still tough enough to destroy Spira. If you didn't kill Vegnagun within a certain time limit, Shuyin would fire Vegnagun's cannon and destroy Spira.

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But why did it take so long? It spends half the game activated, they'd only need it for one battle. Also, wasn't that only because Shuyin was in control? They should just put some Yevon Shmuck at the controles then.

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But why did it take so long?

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...?

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It spends half the game activated

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The final battle isn't half the game.

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Also, wasn't that only because Shuyin was in control? They should just put some Yevon Shmuck at the controles then.

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...it's a machine, dude. It doesn't work better just because Shuyin's the one controlling it.

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Originally Posted by PuPu

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Also, wasn't that only because Shuyin was in control? They should just put some Yevon Shmuck at the controles then.

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...it's a machine, dude. It doesn't work better just because Shuyin's the one controlling it.

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I think Crop meant, wasn't Vegnagun only a threat to Spira because Shuyin was using it? If some Yevon guy was on it, he obviously wouldn't have shot at Spira, just Sin.

Besides, Yevon was pretty happy with having Sin around. They wanted to keep their hold over the people; restricting their use of machina and forcing the belief that Sin was divine punishment for using them in the past down the people's throats. Operation Mi'ihen was a big sham to earn them fake cred and make it look like they were trying to rid Spira of Sin, but it's really the last thing they wanted.

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If some Yevon guy was on it, he obviously wouldn't have shot at Spira, just Sin.

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...which wouldn't have mattered, since the cannon is still strong enough to destroy both at the same time.

It couldnt have been that hard to install something to limit the power.

That thing was buried under the Farplane for 1000 years wasn't it?
I think most people even the high ranking Yevon didn't even know about it or where it was. If you're talking about why they didn't use it back when Sin first showed up, it might've been explained in the game, I can't recall it though since it's been a good while since I played the game.

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Originally Posted by Depression Moon

If you're talking about why they didn't use it back when Sin first showed up, it might've been explained in the game,

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And the reason that the game said is exactly what I said. It was too powerful and would've destroyed all of Spira along with Sin.

Solution: Fire upwards.


What? It works in DBZ. They fire planet destroying blasts all the time, it's a-okay as long as it goes to space! :jess:

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Originally Posted by Goldenboko

Solution: Fire upwards.

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Kinda hard when Sin is swimming in the oceans most of the time >_>

He flew when they did the Hymn!

Gather a smurfload of Sinspawn in the middle of Spira. This'll piss off Sin and he'll fly over looking to smurf :bou::bou::bou::bou: up. Then it's Kamehame time!

Vegnagun would get scared and run away though :p

You tell that bitch to stand there and fire!

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Originally Posted by PuPu

The final battle isn't half the game.

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Don't you see a giant hole at one point where it has dug through? Doesn't that means it's working?

Anyway, I can see what Nercy means by Yevon wanting to keep control, but this is 1000 years later. You'd think that when Sin first came to be, the Bevelle military or whatever would think "Ok let's work on this super powerful machine to try and combat it." It's not like they would have thought they were being punished for using machines straight away - or at least for the first 100 years.

I always thought them saying that it was too super powerful to use against Sin was a lame plot excuse to have a really powerful ending boss.

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Don't you see a giant hole at one point where it has dug through? Doesn't that means it's working?

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Yeah, from when Shuyin decided to move it to the Farplane right before YRP chased after him for the final battle.

Vegnagun was moved to the farplane either after the end of chapter 2 or 3

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Originally Posted by PuPu

right before YRP chased after him for the final battle.

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Erm, I'm pretty sure there was a chapter or two between that.

Vegnigun is the love th! Mae child of Sin and Penence
"Its a boy!! Mazultaf!!"

Well nobody thought to use Vegnagun because I doubt that Yevon even knew about it. Besides, if they did use Vegagun, there would be no FFX or X-2. There's really no point asking "why didn't they do this instead of that?" because the logical solution isn't what the writers wanted to happen and it wouldn't make for an interesting story. There are tons of things that people could have been done differently in FFX and other FF games, but its the character's struggles that make the game more interesting. It's that simple.

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Originally Posted by Crop

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Originally Posted by PuPu

Because it would've destroyed the whole smurfing planet along with Sin.

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I dunno...he was a bit of a wimp when I faced him in X-2. I don't think he was so tough.

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Yuna & Rikku were already maxxed sphere grid strong at the start of that game. :P

Vegnagun was a machine, theres no reason it couldnt be powered down, and even if it couldnt beat sin when powered down it should have atleast been able to fight sin and stave it away from villages.

The whole concept is ridiculous. Do what any sane person would do and deny FFX-2 ever happened.

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Originally Posted by Hot Shot

Well nobody thought to use Vegnagun because I doubt that Yevon even knew about it. Besides, if they did use Vegagun, there would be no FFX or X-2. There's really no point asking "why didn't they do this instead of that?" because the logical solution isn't what the writers wanted to happen and it wouldn't make for an interesting story. There are tons of things that people could have been done differently in FFX and other FF games, but its the character's struggles that make the game more interesting. It's that simple.

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They did know about it, which it why they came up with that lame excuse of why they didn't use it against Sin.
You can't apply that to every FF though, because this is a sequel. It's the lack of any mention or use of such a "powerful" machine in FFX that's stupid. Which is why it was so obviously a crappy rushed boss.

It could've also been a forbidden machina. Yevon wanted to perpetuate the cycle of death so they wouldn't let anyone use it, right?

Why didn't Auron just tell Yuna and everyone else Yevon was a sham and the Final Summoning didn't work? Why did he nearly get them all killed? Auron's the real hero of FFX and if he merely said "the Final Summoning doesn't work" Tidus' necessity to the plot vanishes completely.

Oh dear, what's that? A logic flaw in a storyline? perish the thought.

Also people don't seem to remember Vegnagun is almost an AI. it can run on its own to a extent. They didn't want to risk using a weapon that can almost think for itself.

How are they going to turn Vegnagun on when they can't even get close to it? It turns on when someone shows aggression, maybe that's why Yevon is always so calm and never want a machine to activate.

Anyways I agree when someone said its just the way the story goes. You can think about your past and say "I should have done this" but you can't so get on with it.

Yevon can't use Vegnagun cause it is needed for FF X-2. :bigsmile:

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Originally Posted by Mo-Nercy

Besides, Yevon was pretty happy with having Sin around. They wanted to keep their hold over the people; restricting their use of machina and forcing the belief that Sin was divine punishment for using them in the past down the people's throats. Operation Mi'ihen was a big sham to earn them fake cred and make it look like they were trying to rid Spira of Sin, but it's really the last thing they wanted.

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Originally Posted by Hambone

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Originally Posted by Mo-Nercy

Besides, Yevon was pretty happy with having Sin around. They wanted to keep their hold over the people; restricting their use of machina and forcing the belief that Sin was divine punishment for using them in the past down the people's throats. Operation Mi'ihen was a big sham to earn them fake cred and make it look like they were trying to rid Spira of Sin, but it's really the last thing they wanted.

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I already said, that wouldn't have been the case for the first hundred or so years.
For example, if Sin came here I'm pretty sure we'd all would nuke the hell out of it, regardless of the risk that posed to the planet.

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Originally Posted by Crop

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Originally Posted by Hambone

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Originally Posted by Mo-Nercy

Besides, Yevon was pretty happy with having Sin around. They wanted to keep their hold over the people; restricting their use of machina and forcing the belief that Sin was divine punishment for using them in the past down the people's throats. Operation Mi'ihen was a big sham to earn them fake cred and make it look like they were trying to rid Spira of Sin, but it's really the last thing they wanted.

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I already said, that wouldn't have been the case for the first hundred or so years.
For example, if Sin came here I'm pretty sure we'd all would nuke the hell out of it, regardless of the risk that posed to the planet.

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The whole reason for Yevon's existence was to oppress the denizens of Spira. Sin was the key to this, and was effectively created and "kept alive" by Yevonm so yes, it would have been the case for the first hundred years of Sin's and Yevon's existence.


Yu Yevon created the religion because he was a crazy tyrant bastard and wanted to exalt himself. To exalt himself meant that he would have to create a beast that would keep everybody else from attaining any power. He was clever in that he institutionalized a method for a never-ending temporary cyclical killing of the creature ("The Spiral of Death"), this method meant that he would always be worshiped by the majority of Spira, which was what he wanted in the first place.

I'll never understand where people get their ideas on Yu Yevon from.

For one thing, he clearly wasn't a tyrant as every single one of the remaining people in Zanarkand willingly became Fayth for the summoning of Dream Zanarkand.

Sin only exists because from within Sin, he could perpetually keep Zanaraknd alive "if only in a memory" in the form of Dream Zanarkand. it had nothing to do with ruling forever or creating a Spiral of Death.

Finally, it was Yunalesca, not Yu Yevon or the leaders of Bevelle, who did what you said.

"On the eve of Zanarkand's destruction, Lady Yunalesca... had fled to safety with her husband, Zaon. Later, the two used the Final Summoning to defeat Sin. Yet the people of Bevelle still feared Yu Yevon.
It was to quell his wrath that they revered him, and first spread his teachings.
And so were born the temples of Yevon.
I suppose it's possible Yunalesca had planned it that way from the start!
A fair trade, she defeats Sin in exchange for her lord father's honor."

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Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover

I'll never understand where people get their ideas on Yu Yevon from.

For one thing, he clearly wasn't a tyrant as every single one of the remaining people in Zanarkand willingly became Fayth for the summoning of Dream Zanarkand.

Sin only exists because from within Sin, he could perpetually keep Zanaraknd alive "if only in a memory" in the form of Dream Zanarkand. it had nothing to do with ruling forever or creating a Spiral of Death.

Finally, it was Yunalesca, not Yu Yevon or the leaders of Bevelle, who did what you said.

"On the eve of Zanarkand's destruction, Lady Yunalesca... had fled to safety with her husband, Zaon. Later, the two used the Final Summoning to defeat Sin. Yet the people of Bevelle still feared Yu Yevon.
It was to quell his wrath that they revered him, and first spread his teachings.
And so were born the temples of Yevon.
I suppose it's possible Yunalesca had planned it that way from the start!
A fair trade, she defeats Sin in exchange for her lord father's honor."

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Even all of that given, my point remains the same: Yevon was happy keeping Sin around because it meant that Yevon would remain prominent and unchallenged throughout Spira.

Where does it state that the people of Zanarkand willingly became Fayth? According to the Final Fantasy Wiki (which I know isn't an entirely reputable source, but hey, it's not just me), it says "Yu Yevon had all the surviving citizens turn themselves into Fayth". Whether it is forced or not is never explicitly stated.

If maintaining Dream Zanarkand was the only reason for Sin's existence, then what about Sin's other thing, wiping out any large cities? "Yu Yevon gave this creature a set of very simple instructions: destroy any machina or settlement which grew larger than a small village in order to bring technical evolution to a halt, and retaliate to all hostility with extreme prejudice." - you be the judge of what Yu Yevon's intentions for these instructions were.

And Yunalesca began what is known as the teachings of Yevon because Yu Yevon was the one who is ultimately responsible for them, because he told her, and she passed it on. And since there was no source preceding Yu Yevon, he was the one who created the means of killing Sin...temporarily. So yes, Yunalesca was the main source for spreading the teachings and the religion, she didn't create them, Yu Yevon did. So of course she had part of it planned, she makes it quite clear that she likes the Spiral of Death when she tries to kill the party in Zanarkand.

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Originally Posted by Hambone

And Yunalesca began what is known as the teachings of Yevon because Yu Yevon was the one who is ultimately responsible for them, because he told her, and she passed it on. And since there was no source preceding Yu Yevon, he was the one who created the means of killing Sin...temporarily. So yes, Yunalesca was the main source for spreading the teachings and the religion, she didn't create them, Yu Yevon did. So of course she had part of it planned, she makes it quite clear that she likes the Spiral of Death when she tries to kill the party in Zanarkand.

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First off, I agree with everything you said.

Second, this right here is something that I'm finding puzzling as of late. Thinking about it, Yunalesca really does seem convinced that Sin could not be defeated by any means other than the Final Summoning, and is distraught when she is defeated, because the option dies with her. That kind of makes me wonder: did she know that there was another way to defeat Sin? If she knew the ins and outs of the operation, she probably would have, so did Yu Yevon not clue her in? Did he lie to her about the nature of what he would be summoning? Did she know, but after a millennium of telling distruths, eventually bought into her own propaganda?

Also, I always wondered: did Yunalesca actually approach the leaders of Bevelle and explain what was happening/what had happened, and what it took to "stop" Sin? Did they just flock to ten years later when Sin came back? @_@

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Where does it state that the people of Zanarkand willingly became Fayth?

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The Bevelle Fayth specifically says they all wanted to save Zanarkand which means they all willingly gave themselves to become Fayth.

"Yes. A war between Zanarkand and Bevelle. Bevelle's machina assured their victory from the start. Spira had never seen such power. The summoners of Zanarkand didn't stand a chance. Zanarkand was doomed to oblivion. That's why we tried to save it -- if only in a memory."

There is no mention of it being all Yu Yevon's doing.

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If maintaining Dream Zanarkand was the only reason for Sin's existence, then what about Sin's other thing, wiping out any large cities? "Yu Yevon gave this creature a set of very simple instructions: destroy any machina or settlement which grew larger than a small village in order to bring technical evolution to a halt, and retaliate to all hostility with extreme prejudice." - you be the judge of what Yu Yevon's intentions for these instructions were.

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As far as I can remember reading in a translation of the FF Ultimania, it was to prevent people from discovering the island where Dream Zanarkand was being summoned. DZ is in fact a "real" place which would explain how Sin travels from it to regular Spira no problem. Sin alone can travel pretty much every corner of the globe because limited technology keeps people from freely exploring.

At least this is what I remember reading and it's really stupid which is why i tend to ignore it.