QuestionWhat was the reason that Fang's brand was messed up? If it was stated ingame, then I forgot.
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QuestionWhat was the reason that Fang's brand was messed up? If it was stated ingame, then I forgot.
I don't recall them specifically saying what caused it, but i think it was because she (SPOILER)turned into an incomplete Ragnarok way back when
So, would it mean that if Theory Chap 13 spoilersLightning and co. each turned into an incomplete Ragnorok, that their brands wouldn't turn them into Cie'th, (Even though the weird focus thing after the 1st Orphan fight, with their focus changing) therefore, making them all unaffected by the brands effect. Even if the chance of it would be dramatically low.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarZidane
Fairly sure it's because she forgot her focus. Having said that, you'd think that it would sort itself out when she remembered - although the question still remains as to whether or not she fully remembers her focus or if she only remembers pieces of it, sort of like an unfinished jigsaw puzzle. Alternatively, it's possible that once you forget a focus, the brand is screwed up entirely and not even remembering it later on will repair it. Which is good for her, I guess! Solution #1 for all l'Cie of the future: Forced amnesia!
Maybe that's a side effect of when you turn into Ragnarok? Or maybe Anima was content with Fang's try and let her be a "half-L'Cie", meaning she won't become a Cie'th?
Maybe it's because she became Ragnarok and attacked Cocoon, achieving her focus... however as Cocoon still existed, it was a "grey area" as to whether or not she had completed her focus.
My question: What about the rest of the party who didn't even know their focus? Why is Fang's brand frozen, but the rest not? How is it different to forget than to not know at all?Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
I think it is sugested somewhere on the game that they will only turn to cie´th if they fall to dispair.(It has nothing to do with the focus).
I've blocked most of the plot out of my memory, but I thought Cieth-transforming could result from either an overwhelming bout of despair OR the failure of ones focus.
Yes.I think your answer is more likely.
It is different to forget, because she probably didn't remember her focus at all when she woke up, but when Lightning and co. turned into l'Cie, they knew that they had a focus, even if they didn't know what it was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying ArrowMy question: What about the rest of the party who didn't even know their focus? Why is Fang's brand frozen, but the rest not? How is it different to forget than to not know at all?Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
But Fang knew she had a focus, too. I realize there is technically a difference between a lack of knowledge and forgetting past knowledge, but in this case they are effectively the same thing. After Lightning and co. woke up from their vision, they didn't know their Focus either. They had a vague idea regarding a vague image which none of them could agree on.
This fal'Cie Focus thing really doesn't hold together logically.
But you know when Beginning of the gamethey get a glimpse of Ragnarok and that was supposed to be there clue? Maybe Fang didn't even remember Ragnarok, and just remembered that she had a focus, but couldn't remember the clue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Arrow
Maybe. I've only got a vague recollection of the plot, so my argument may be pretty hole-y. I still stand by the notion that the fal'Cie being vague and unclear about a Focus is smurfing stupid, though.
I wasn't talking about the fal'Cie, I was talking about Fang.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Arrow
(SPOILER)You know when Lightning, Vanille(even if it was a lie), Snow, Hope, and Sazh turn into l'Cie after fighting Anima? And then you saw Ragnarok destroying Cocoon? That little hint might not of returned to Fang's memory, therefore, her brand is useless, and locks up, because she doesn't remember her focus, and since brands (SPOILER)change faster when under extreme stress, emotions, etc. maybe they change under memories, too.
Since everyone seems to be talking contrary to what I remember, I feel unsure when I say this but I clearly recall Fang telling Vanille that she had remembered everything. That the whole "I don't remember" thing that both of them were playing was to protect the other. They both actually remembered the events clearly since they were freed from their respective crystals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
The reason why Fang's l'Cie mark goes faded is because she half-completed her original Focus. Without Vanille she never could fully awaken the power of Ragnarok, nonetheless she tried and failed. Apparently this was enough for the fal'Cie so they were turn to crystal. When they finally unfreeze, her brand is burnt because she had tried, with little success but Vanille's was still active (at least they give the impression that it was) because she never became Ragnarok with Fang, thus not fulfilling her end of the Focus. At least that's how I understood it to be.
Good point, WarZidane, Karifean, and SoL, with the proof that Fang did half-complete her focus, but wouldn't it still be active until she completely destroyed Cocoon? Or did the fal'Cie mess up on the completion of her focus by freezing her brand too early? Or does the brand work on memories, along with emotions?
No, Fang genuinely forgot but Vanille was pretending. Fang remembered later on, then Vanille confessed.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Summoner of LeviathanSince everyone seems to be talking contrary to what I remember, I feel unsure when I say this but I clearly recall Fang telling Vanille that she had remembered everything. That the whole "I don't remember" thing that both of them were playing was to protect the other. They both actually remembered the events clearly since they were freed from their respective crystals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
As far as I recall, Fang did not ever remember. When they met Cid in Ch10, Fang realized there was something wrong. In Ch11, she tells Vanille that she remembers (Vanille states - correctly - that Fang is lying) and then Fang notices she truly had been pretending. ... god I need to play that game once again!Quote:
Originally Posted by No.78No, Fang genuinely forgot but Vanille was pretending. Fang remembered later on, then Vanille confessed.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Summoner of LeviathanSince everyone seems to be talking contrary to what I remember, I feel unsure when I say this but I clearly recall Fang telling Vanille that she had remembered everything. That the whole "I don't remember" thing that both of them were playing was to protect the other. They both actually remembered the events clearly since they were freed from their respective crystals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
That part was so confusing.
I came to the conclusion that vanille's brand should be messed up too but she got a new one from anima when the parties got theirs. Fang's it how it should be when it's completed. I thought I read somewhere that it was the whole so she can use magic without a focus thing.
Although.... (SPOILER)the others brands dissapear at the end.....
Didn't it say on the DataLog that she pretended to be branded? And (SPOILER)when the party turned cie'th at the end of the game, wouldn't Vanille turn cie'th, too? Or maybe her focus was different from Fang's when she got branded with her.Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshWonder
Yeah, it's of my belief that Vanille and Fang got their focus at the same time. That would explain Fang knowing exactly where to look. It's also notable that in the short stories covering the times immediately after Fang and Vanille 'woke up' that she still had her brand and it was not screwed up like Fang's is. So she didn't get it from Anima at the same time as the bulk of the main cast.
On both occasions that Fang/Vanille became crystal, they did so at the same time. With that in mind, I would say they had identical focuses. The brand being messed up can only be explained by the differences in their storylines - the initial difference being that Fang became Rangarok (I don't think Vanille did on the first occasion?) and the second difference being that Fang forgot her focus.
Yeah, I misunderstood the whole revelation part and somehow mistook it for meaning that Fang was lying the whole time (i.e. Fang had actually did remember from the get go). :sQuote:
Originally Posted by No.78No, Fang genuinely forgot but Vanille was pretending. Fang remembered later on, then Vanille confessed.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Summoner of LeviathanSince everyone seems to be talking contrary to what I remember, I feel unsure when I say this but I clearly recall Fang telling Vanille that she had remembered everything. That the whole "I don't remember" thing that both of them were playing was to protect the other. They both actually remembered the events clearly since they were freed from their respective crystals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
Basically, I am going with BoB on this one as to why Fang's brand is messed and Vanille's wasn't. At no point did they say that Vanille was "rebranded" by Anima. I think Fang's memory lost was due to either (or possibly both) from her suppressing the memories because they horrified her or that when she "completed" her Focus and the brand faded that it effected the memories associated with her Focus, or at least it's completion.
I seem to recall the characters explicitly stating in game that Vanille was not branded by Anima and was just pretending to be branded with the others.
She wasn't branded at the same time as the others, but anima was still the fal'Cie that branded Fang and Vanille I believe. Hence them being in crystal stasis in the vestige.
Makes sence that anima was the original fal cie that branded fang and vanille, I think I read something in the datalog that oerbans worshipped Anima.
EDT: Had another thought after watching the ending again this morning, perhaps the messed up brand means a l'cie who makes their own focus/defies their original one. They get to keep their powers so they can complete their new focus, then focus done, brand disapears. Just an ineloquent thought!