Ramza was just lucky

This forum has been depressingly quiet lately, time to stir the pot.

I move that Ramza didn't show any character development through the game and was only relevant to the history of Ivalice because he had a clear evil (the Lucavi) to go against. He was a completely static character and would have been crushed under history's foot and forgotten like all the other idealists. It would have been merciful for him to have died in Morond, as he is not capable of surviving in the real Ivalice, nor can he adapt.

Agreed.

This is common knowledge, lol.

How can you say he had no development? At the start of the game he was a naiive squire, oblivious to the true nature of the world. After witnessing his best friend's sister being killed at his own brother's orders, his view of the world changes and he finds himself lost. This leads him to become a mercenary for hire, but after meeting with Delita he realizes that it's his duty to use the fortunate upbringing he received to right the injustice he sees. It is true that his character doesn't develop all that more after that point (which is still early in the game), but to me that is development.

Yet I would still agree that Delita is the far more developed character in this game, and probably more interesting too. It would have been cool if we got a parallel story where Delita is the lead but I doubt we'll ever see that.

Ramza definitely isn't a static character; his actions are just less flamboyant and backstabby than Delita's.

Agree with Del Murder about his naivete, he starts off innocent with an optimistic view of the aristocracy of Ivalice; he trusts his brothers, believes they are good, and almost buys into the whole moral ambiguity, ends justify the means nature of their rule. However, it's not just Teta's death, but the entire first chapter, that really makes him begin to question what is going on. He sees the ruthlessness of nobles (or wanna-be-nobles) like Algus, the basic struggle to eat that his enemy in the Death Corps. have, and the complicated political conniving of the different factions.

I do think his time as a mercenary was poorly explained, but arguably it didn't need to be. I just don't understand how a character who will always do the most right thing regardless of the circumstances could have done a job like that, unless he had just signed up with Gafgarion and Rad prior to the game.

For the most part VeloZer0 is right, Ramza is fairly static and his character arc isn't all that extensive. However, I feel he's the ultimate Matsuno protagonist, and I've already given my ideas on why... :)

Agreed with Del-M.

Ramza was one of the most epic characters in FF history actually.
How he starts off all calm and anxious. But throughout he always saves whoever he sees. Mustadio, Agrius, whoever. It doesn't matter who it is.

His death is very epic and sad.

I was under the impression that Ramza and Alma were not dead in the end (which makes me wonder about the others, such as Mustadio, Agrias, and Orlandu).

Olan sees them riding off into the forest at their "grave site". It would be in ramzas best interest to be thought dead, considering he knew what really happened during the course of the game and that knowledge would be dangerous.

Or were they simply something akin to spirits at the end?

I think Ramza obviously died.

I mean, do you think Ramza and TG Cid would just let Olan be burned at stake like that?

If they fled the country they may not have known/been able to get back in time. I personally think the story works a lot better with him dying, and that is usually what I chose to believe. But there isn't a lot of doubt in my mind that the developers wanted us to think he was still alive.

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I think Ramza obviously died.

I mean, do you think Ramza and TG Cid would just let Olan be burned at stake like that?

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I Agree but I feel that Ramza was a character that we grow up with and the story may revolve around Delita and Ovelia but you need to understand that even Arazlam Durai said that everyone knows the story of Delita and that we were going to embark on a story that envolved a character that was lost in the time of history so if Olan feels that Ramza is an important character in the war of the lions then he must be important to the story even though Delita is the stories main character then you must know that Delita's best friend Ramza has an important role in the story but he is just a minor character in the big story thus proving that Ramza is not just a static character he is more like a fill in for the Beouvle family the connection from the Hyral family to the Beouvle family if it wasnt for Ramza Delita would have never had his sister killed by Algus because he would have never been in that situation thus proving that Ramza is important to the story and futhermore Ramza was a character that was involved to the end because his sister was the host for St. Ajora to come back to the world of the living so in essence Ramza is an important character to the storyline even if people feel against it im all for Ramza being a main and very important person in the storyline

I believe that the problem is because Ramza is your typical and stereotypical good guy with a sense of justice. We've all seen this before, so he seems extremely bland and boring in an entourage of backstabbing manipulators, which, you must admit, at the time wasn't exactly a common element in RPG's to aim upon, and there are way more spineless worms in this game than good guys.
Although I love Cidolfus, he's pretty boring himself, and I only paid attention to Agrias when they gave her that funky accent in the PSP port.

To be fair, Ramza does have some character progression going on, (As mentioned with his realization of the nobility's disposition.), -technically- although besides chopping off his ponytail, it seemed to me that said progression was him going with the game's story rather than anything else.

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Originally Posted by DarkBahamut

I think Ramza obviously died.

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A common argument made deals mainly with the situation of Orlan sighting Ramza and Alma at the cemetary before they ride off to parts unknown: "Orlan never met Alma before. Why would he see her at the cemetery if he was experiencing a hallucination or vision?"

* cough*ghosts* cough*

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Originally Posted by VeloZer0

* cough*ghosts* cough*

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A common counterpoint to that is, "Why would you see them riding on chocobos if they were ghosts? Were the chocobos ghosts, too?" This would actually be something that occasionally comes up in fiction like the Legend of Sleepy Hollow in which an apparition has a ghostly animal companion.

The chocobo is Boko, since obviously everyone keeps him until the end. The other one is some decendent of Boko since keeping him around naturally means you'll end up with a roster full of chocobos by that point.

I fired Boco's ass a long time ago, along with all of his offspring.

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Originally Posted by Nevermore

I fired Boco's ass a long time ago, along with all of his offspring.

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Well don't be surprised that his ghosts are haunting you.

I think that the game developers did decide to cop out and have Ramza live, however it was left vague enough that I can chose to believe he died, which makes a much, much better ending.

Boco will just return in another FF game, in seven months or three years from now. No harm done to nae :bou::bou::bou::bou:.

And I agree. It would be a much more tragic tale if Ramza and Alma actually croaked. I do believe that the game made it clear that they did not, however, as Olan seeing them was shortly followed by another scene in which they ride off into the sunset with near a soul to witness it save the player, (PSP port, I can't remember how that went on the original.) so this kind of confirms it, I guess.

Not really sure how they survived all that!

A common argument proposes the scenario that the positive aspects of the Zodiac Stones allowed Ramza and Alma to escape the grim fate that awaited them upon defeating Altima.

The ending has been discussed in other places on a constant basis. Personally, I believe that the ending is rather cruel to all of the main characters because you hints that only Ramza and Alma survived the events of the final battle. I simply cannot believe that characters like Agrias would so willingly abandon their old life if they had lived.

I mean, if Agrias was around, would Ovelia really have met such a fate? Orlan never hears from his adoptive father again?

The point of.the game was that history forgets...
Delita is a hero king, and ramaza would have little more than 'a heretic who lived in the time of...' in the history books.

The person telling the story that is the game is, I think one of the more significant plot points to the game. That which history forgets, people remember.
You also have to understand that the story isn't that of The Adventures of Ramza Beoulve. The story is Delitas story. You're the unspoken hero caught up in the mix.

Also, the game is a play. Its a tragedy, and I think an optimal ending would have everyones story end... I was always curious about the riding into the sunset scene we get that really doesn't fit the rest of the game. My opinion anyways.

This is what I got out of the game, anyways...

Spoiler free? Whatever. I tried.

Edit: only now.do I realize that I said the same thing as three other people. Good for me!