So Squenix, when are we going to see 'curvy' heroines?

A friend of mine reckons that Final Fantasy heroines are always 'skinny and pretty' and therefore cannot be taken seriously. I replied that there have been some "curvy" heroines in the series, namely Maria, Aerith, Rinoa, Yuna (in X) and Lulu. I also pointed out that:

a.) they are modelled after Japanese people, who are a small and generally "skinny" people.
b.) most of them are teens or young adults, and therefore would have smaller builds - though I admit that's not a very valid argument.
c.) the characters are either warriors (e.g. Lightning) or are engaged in a quest that requires a lot of travelling, normally by foot. If any of them did have some extra weight, it would quickly be shed. Until you acquire an airship, that is ;)

However upon looking up some height and weight statistics in FF Wiki, I found that yes, these girls are freakin' tiny! If I remember correctly, to state an example: Rosa is 5'4" and weighs 48kgs. That is the same height as me, and if I was 48kg I'd be borderline anorexic. Celes's stats also listed her as around 5'5" and weighing about 50kg. Terra was even less. So yes, it does seem that the majority of FF heroines are in the "painfully skinny" bracket. Any thoughts on this? Do you feel it affects the character at all or your experience of the games? Would you like to see more "curvy" heroines in the future games?
(FYI by curvy I do not mean fat and flabby, I mean healthy-looking, fuller figured girls, not waifs.)

I would never define Maria, Aerith, Rinoa, or Yuna as "curvy".

Lulu, Beatrix, and Tifa were kinda curvy, but mostly they just had really big knockers and tiny tiny waists. Not really curvy in the same way as Chung Li is curvy. You don't really see Chung Li sized thighs on female characters these days.

To be honest, this isn't really something I've noticed or thought all that much about so it hasn't really impacted how I view or experience the games. And yeah, Asian countries lean on the skinny sized. I don't remember seeing one obese or fat person while I was visiting S. Korea. Chubby, occasionally, but mostly just lots of skinny people.

Besides, it's not like there are a lot of curvy male characters running around. Most of the guys are skinny too and all of them have six packs.

I thought "curvy" was another PC word for "fat and flabby". The examples you've named just have big boobs and small waists. I wouldn't mind more of that.

and yeah it's probably because those are normal weight and height stats for azns.

Quina

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Originally Posted by kotora

I thought "curvy" was another PC word for "fat and flabby". The examples you've named just have big boobs and small waists. I wouldn't mind more of that.

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Nah, for me curvy means "has boobs and hips that work in an hourglass figure style". Good examples of girls who are considered to be curvy by many people are Beyoncé, Angelina Jolie, Scarlett Johansson and most Page 3 glamour models in the UK. I think curvy girls are far more common in the UK than America, mind you. Non-curvy girls include the likes of Victoria Beckham, Kiera Knightly and most American models. Fat and flabby is more known as chubby, fat, flabby, obese or if we're being PC, it's something like "BBW" or something, I think?

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and yeah it's probably because those are normal weight and height stats for azns.

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This is my first thought, too.

Even most of the male body weights given are incredibly light. I'm fairly involved in sport and I can tell you that they are extremely light as measured against the standards of high performance athletes (which I would assume all the protagonists would be).

If you consider the old Final Fantasies based off representations of Amano's anorexic art, they'd have to be light as a feather. They're barely more than bones and skin. Especially the females. Maybe for some odd reason they based their weight stats on that

And yeah. I think different people have different definitions of "curvy". I've known quite a few people use it in the context of meaning at least a little chubby. I really don't think it should be used as any kind of descriptor considering its general ambiguity these days

Amano's characters are hardly 'anorexic'. They're not any thinner than most characters in fiction. It's the real life people that are too fat, not the other way around.

I have made the observation that Amano's character designs tend to be very tiny, whereas Nomura's are more of an 'athletic' body type.

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I would never define Maria, Aerith, Rinoa, or Yuna as "curvy"

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To me they just looked a little more voluptous than the average FF heroine. Maybe my eyesight is failing me.

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Even most of the male body weights given are incredibly light. I'm fairly involved in sport and I can tell you that they are extremely light as measured against the standards of high performance athletes (which I would assume all the protagonists would be).

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A very well-made point, the males tend to be just as tiny, or very large (e.g. Ward from VIII or Snow from XIII)!

But then again, it is a fantasy game; the characters, no matter how realistically portrayed, are still not real people and never will be, so how big or small they are shouldn't really be an issue.

At 5'3", I weigh a little less than the examples you gave, yet I'm not starving.

You can be curvy at 5'5" and 110lbs! It's quite common for girls my age :confused:

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Originally Posted by Jessweeee♪

You can be curvy at 5'5" and 110lbs! It's quite common for girls my age :confused:

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Honestly, I'm not sure how this could be physically possible. Unless your meaning of "curvy" is completely different than mine... which it probably is! :greenie:

When I think curvy, I think of women like Mariah Carey, Beyonce, Kim Kardashian, Christina Hendricks.

There are people who have curves but who I wouldn't classify as curvy. Jessica Alba has a great body, but I'd still classify her as slender, borderline skinny. Jessica Alba actually has a pretty typical video game chick body. Thin with boobs, basically.

You really don't see body types like Christina Hendricks all that much in video games or just mainstream media in general.

You also don't see them a lot because running around all day and doing action stuff usually makes people thinner and it would be weird seeing a lot of big boobs and big asses jumping into battle. One Ms. Fanservice per cast is enough, just like how we never get more than 1 token black dude.

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Originally Posted by Miriel

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Originally Posted by Jessweeee♪

You can be curvy at 5'5" and 110lbs! It's quite common for girls my age :confused:

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Honestly, I'm not sure how this could be physically possible. Unless your meaning of "curvy" is completely different than mine... which it probably is! :greenie:

When I think curvy, I think of women like Mariah Carey, Beyonce, Kim Kardashian, Christina Hendricks.

There are people who have curves but who I wouldn't classify as curvy. Jessica Alba has a great body, but I'd still classify her as slender, borderline skinny. Jessica Alba actually has a pretty typical video game chick body. Thin with boobs, basically.

You really don't see body types like Christina Hendricks all that much in video games or just mainstream media in general.

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Not "a little extra" curvy, like literally curvy shaped curvy. Boobs and hips! You can be skinny without being shaped like a rail!

I know Christina Hendricks has filled out just a tad over the years. But I fell in love with her when first seeing her on Firefly, she was gorgeous. And my opinion of her hasn't changed. She's still gorgeous. She's not scrawny, but she's definitely not the type of curvy that means chubby. She's still sexy, she's that kinda curvy

Umm, hello??

Quina dear, I'm afraid you're not curvy so much as... spherical.

@kotora
The thing you're probably talking about is when fat people are calling themselves curvy because they don't like the sound of "fat". This does of course not make them curvy in anyones eyes except their own, if even there.

Rinoa is way too skinny to be curvy.

Stella ?
http://i53.:bou::bou::bou::bou::bou:...u:/11ioklh.jpg

Being fit and athletic also doesn't have to mean you're pencil thin in the arms and legs either, or have a 20-inch waist along with a DD chest. From the "West" anyway, many world-class female athletes have big, ripped legs and arms -- whether they're short (like gymnasts) or taller (like long-track speed skaters).

Yet even games made by Western companies seem to favor females shaped in the "Eastern fashion," which I am sure says something about modern society... :|

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Originally Posted by Miriel

I would never define Maria, Aerith, Rinoa, or Yuna as "curvy".

Lulu, Beatrix,

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Don't these two have hips though? I don't think I've really ever seen any voluptuous JRPG girls. It would be nice to have some women with meat, thighs, and ass, but I don't think we'll be getting that from Square Enix.

Curvy to me means having both T and A. Beyonce and Kim Kardashian are great examples. Fat is just fat.

I think Lulu, Beatrix, Fran are the closest we will come. You will never see a FF heroine without a small waist. It's just not now the Japanese do it. It would be cool to see a main character with a heavier build who is not a giant like Barret (Quina you are always the exception, always). You know, an 'average' looking person, but it will be tough since as someone mentioned, fighting all the time and saving the world will make you pretty athletic.

We don't see many curvy females cause I believe most Japanese men have boob fetishes so the closest you will get is big breasts. Most FF females don't have butts or hips. It makes you wonder how they don't fall over from poor weight distribution or constantly complain about back problems.

Most of the FF females are not curvy. I feel Garnet comes close though. It's hard to judge Lulu cause her skirt covers up a alot.

As for the off the wall weights of characters in the early FFs, I'm going to just say its most likely because the authors didn't think it was important and guessed what they thought the weight was. We are talking about info coming from books that tell the populations of cities being in the hundreds and land mass for kingdoms being the size of counties and small countries as opposed to more realistic crap. Putting together the land mass of known territory's in FFIV, the planet is the size of something close to the US. So I would gather that's pretty decent evidence to say these guys probably weren't putting too much thought into it cause height and weight is kinda irrelevant for a video game character.

they are supposed to be fit fighters, but no-one wants to play as big muscular freak women so they just have to be toned, Its a Fantasy game and so it doesn't need to be realistic

Running around and swinging around staffs and swords all day makes one a big muscular freak now? How about that for realism

I imagine the average tennis player would be somewhat accurate looking for this sort of thing?

http://www2.tennisserver.com/images/...c/IMG_0212.jpg

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Originally Posted by PeneloRatsbane

they are supposed to be fit fighters, but no-one wants to play as big muscular freak women

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Eh, what's this?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_K4Ig6nV7j4...4-vanessa1.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PfgzU7BLxI...gela+Belti.jpg

Eww. XD

Yeah, that's that new chick from Virtua Fighter that I never used. Any chick that looks like she could win a muscle show or pose for Boris Valejo is probably not my style. And not because I know she could kick my ass. Less muscular chicks could probably kick my ass, and turn me on at the same time. My reason is akin to Marshal Banana's: Ew :P but I'd have nothing against more filled out hips and rears, and less endowed cleavage. I never got the boob fetish and the embellishment catering to the fan-service for that fetish can get quite ridiculous sometimes

I don't think there is much of a boob fetish trend in FF games at all. Quite the opposite.

Yeah. I meant the fetish going on with Japan in general. A lot of anime and video games are a little outrageous in that aspect

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Originally Posted by Loony BoB

I don't think there is much of a boob fetish trend in FF games at all. Quite the opposite.

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I agree. The only notable sets were in VII and X. A shame, really.

Ashe has very wide hips and thick thighs. She is flat chested though.



http://ui18.gamespot.com/849/ashe102...rknight1_2.jpg

Despite the fact that Ashe has legs for days and is still thin, I think her body represents women more so than other FF heroines due to the fact that she is pear-shaped like most women.

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Originally Posted by Tokimadoushi

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I would never define Maria, Aerith, Rinoa, or Yuna as "curvy"

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To me they just looked a little more voluptous than the average FF heroine. Maybe my eyesight is failing me.

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Look up the definition on the internet. It pertains "great sensual gratification" which implies "pleasingly aesthetic/beautiful/sexually full-bodied" given a western mindset. I can't believe that idiot New York thought it meant "fat"... dumb bi-atch.

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Originally Posted by Depression Moon

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PfgzU7BLxI...gela+Belti.jpg

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I like it.

I noticed that many of the character heights and weights that I came across in various Final Fantasy games and Street Fighter differ greatly from what would be expected in real life. For example, Celes and Rosa weighing as little as they do. I project my own ideas of heights and weights into the character art unless the character is scaled and proportioned in updated HD graphics.

Perhaps its more realistic than we imagine. As Wolf pointed out before, the worlds are extremely small, so their weights would be a lot lower by the less gravitational attraction on their worlds (Ha..kidding)

This probably has very little to do with the thread, but on the topic of proportions, the hand sizes for the girls in tekken 6 are freaking massive. Majorly unattractive.

Great... now I DON'T want to play that game.
*sob* "YOU'VE RUINED CHRISTMAS TEKKEN FOR ME!"

Not Alisa's!

Admittedly, I main Asuka and I know she has freakish man hands, I made Alisa a second for a while there and I could have sworn she had them as well, but I'll have to check. You have to go to the customise screen to really see the full scope of these babies though.

>>> The 3 girls from ff12 were curvy enough for me..:luca:

I dont know about the Online FF games, I bet there are lots of them..

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Originally Posted by black orb

I dont know about the Online FF games, I bet there are lots of them..

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except those are actually dudes

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Originally Posted by kotora

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Originally Posted by black orb

I dont know about the Online FF games, I bet there are lots of them..

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except those are actually dudes

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So Squenix, when are we going to see 'curvy' heroines heroes?

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idk, there aren't too many really curvy girls in ff11

:rolleyes:

what does that even mean?

Hmm. I think Lightning counts. Her outfit is form-fitting enough that you can see she has significant hips, her thighs are fairly thick, and, uh, her chest isn't exactly invisible. For the most part, though, FF girls have "plain" figures, though. The series' main point really isn't sex appeal, but that doesn't stop fangirls from turning the effeminate Nomura men into gay lovers!

...but yeah, Lightning, IMO, is the closest we've come to a realistically-proportioned woman with meat on her bones in the series. With Amano's designs, you couldn't tell half the time if they were women/supposed to resemble real people, and Nomura didn't start fetishizing much until Lulu.

If you want to talk about Squeenix and boobs, there's 3rd Birthday.

what version of FF13 did you play? Lightning has the body of a skinny teenage boy.

Does it really matter? Don't they all look the same at this point anyway?

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Originally Posted by Red Hero

Does it really matter? Don't they all look the same at this point anyway?

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???
Are you asking does it matter how they look after entering a discussion on how they look?

I'd do a classic side-by-side comparison of Nomura's designs, but that's so overdone.

Lulu was pretty "curvy" to me. Yuna got kinda curvy in X-2.

But yeah, Japanese games, not gonna happen. Unless the guys responsible for Eiken take Nomura's job.

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Originally Posted by Vyk

Yeah. I meant the fetish going on with Japan in general. A lot of anime and video games are a little outrageous in that aspect

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Japan? I assumed it was just the norm for guys, the US is fairly boob obsessed too. I once had the displeasure of turning on my dad's computer to see that his background was a couple of women with breasts as large as the women were tall. Though that may have been made for comedy's sake.

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Originally Posted by eternal essence

This probably has very little to do with the thread, but on the topic of proportions, the hand sizes for the girls in tekken 6 are freaking massive. Majorly unattractive.

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While customizing my characters in Tekken 5, I couldn't help but notice some unrealistic jiggling when rotating certain female characters.

I guess its relative. I'm american and I'm not boob obsessed. And I don't generally hang out with weirdos who are, nor do I spend a lot of time in porn stores or loitering around the mature section of book stores. So America's obsession is lost on me. But I don't spend any time in Japan to differentiate between much of the more subdued artistry and their general obsession with lithe over-endowed females in sailor school-girl outfits. So unfortunately they get generalized

http://mycheats.1up.com/view/imagera..._blossoms_.jpg

I rest my case ^^

I will look forward for a game with middle- old aged people as the main characters. Maybe we have a 70 year old Cloud wearing Adult diapers finally gonna confess to the dying aged Tifa on her deathbed or something. :bigsmile: