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I wanna know, do you guys prefer a Final Fantasy where characters are already assigned roles (such as IV and IX) or do you prefer when a character can be customised just the way you like it (XII's License Board, VII's Materia etc)?
I personally prefer when characters have their own identity on battle which prevents them from being carbon copies of each other.
I strongly prefer that all characters have defined roles in battle as I believe it positively affects the personality and background of the character. To date, most of the role-playing games that I have played and finished are the ones in which the characters have a defined role in combat.
I also like the pre-defined roles for characters. Their assigned roles helps flesh out their personality as well, and it makes battles more varied as no team will be alike.
I like to be able to customize my characters into a team of my choice, with the characters that I want. I don't mind pre-determined, but in my experience I have had much more fun with VII and XII's battle team customization.
FFX and FFXIII are my favorite in that regard. They're pre-determined for the most part, but there is room for a little customization if you've got the extra experience. Others can get boring. When they're fully assigned, there's no room for experimentation. When they're fully customizable everyone ends up exactly the same and all I end up doing is mashing X. That said, I don't really mind it whichever way.
I like it in VII and XII when characters clearly have roles better suited for them, and giving them defined classes based on said skills.
Not true! You expect Fran to be the obvious mage, but her magic stat has the slowest growth, and she is surpassed by Penelo, Asche, and Vaan in that area!Quote:
Originally Posted by Laddy
I prefer having a free hand in my character customization though it would be cool if they gave characters more than just their limit breaks to set them apart from each other.
I agree with this. In other games like VII and VIII, in combat almost everyone felt identical and whenever I tried to give characters their own roles it didn't quite feel right, maybe because the game didn't give them personal roles or maybe the combat works against it. I think it's the combat. Whenever I tried to give characters in VII and VIII defined roles, but they just ended up being jacks of all trades anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Murder
In VI the game felt like a weird mix of the two and it felt a little less special since everyone could learn every spell and summon. I still sort of clung to character roles though.
XII I felt more relaxed into customizing characters for certain roles, but it still didn't seem to be that supportive in the game. As I heard the international version makes it a bit easier to do with a refined license board. XII felt the most comfortable for me probably because the game gave specific weapons and armor that would be suitable to the classes rather than having Selphie who uses nunchakus play the role of a mage.
In XII you can pick the suitable weapon, armor, magic, and class. I do also notice that I tend to like the story of RPGs more that have characters who play a specific role in combat than those that don't.
I like to have a customizable team. That way I can use the characters I like and ignore the characters I don't like with little comeuppance.
Yeah, X-XIII are ok since the characters have a clearly defined path and you can assign their roles based on that. VII-VIII really had no path and I felt every character was the same. In fact I just directly copied materia/junction sets between characters when I switched up my party.
What I really like is when the character's job class has significance for the story. In FFIV, Rydia's home was burned by fire and so she couldn't use the Fire spell, and when she had to it made for a powerful scene in the game. Cecil's journey to become a Paladin also plays a significant role in the plot. Same with Dagger's role as Summoner in FFIX, as well as the story surrounding the black mages in that game. These things made the games more enjoyable and added another dimension to the battles. I felt like I was really playing those characters.
Fran? She's clearly descirbed as a "master of weapons." xDQuote:
Originally Posted by Jessweeee♪Not true! You expect Fran to be the obvious mage, but her magic stat has the slowest growth, and she is surpassed by Penelo, Asche, and Vaan in that area!Quote:
Originally Posted by Laddy
But she has the lowest Strength and Speed stat with everyone at level 99 :confused:
I suppose she is like a red mage. A jack of all trades, a master of none.
I generally prefer the blank slate in FF games. I like being able to do whatever I want with whoever I want so I can concoct some really unorthodox parties. Out of my four favourites in the series (each one taking top spot depending on my mood) only VI does the predetermined roles thing - and even then it's not as hard a load-out as, say, IV, IX or X.
I like a little bit of both.
What I like about blank state is that I can make anyone what I want to be, and pick my party based on who I like the most. It particularly irks me when I have to give up my desired playstyle because I don't like the character, or when I include a character I don't like as much in order to enhance the gameplay.
On the flipside, I don't much care for having a bunch of carbon copies with no identities.
There can be compromise between the two. Take FF3. Your characters have the physical ability to be carbon copies but by the end of the game this very rarely happens.
This is because it isn't advantageous to have them all the same. In FF12 for instance I found the build I thought to be the stand out and made all my characters that (to all of those who are going to derail this thread about me playing the game wrong: go f*** yourselves. Make another thread and we can talk about it there).. Also at very few points in the game of FF3 do you have the equipment necessary to class stack, usually only having enough of that classes gear to equip one or two of them.
If they could figure out a way to work it in 1990, I can't help but think they could have thought of methods that were a million times better.
Although I love the pre-determined roles in an FF game, I have always been a huge fan of V's job system. It's probably one of my favourites because it's just so much fun to use. Each playthrough I use different character set ups (each character specialising in a certain field)
I like the X system where its a predefined role and a little guidance but you still have absolute freedom if you so choose. That way their characters have stronger definitions without restricting them in battle.
Though I dont mind the old one character one class system like in VI.
The FFXII system where they all start pretty much around the same place on the lisence grid annoys me.
It depends on the game but overall I usually prefer having some level of pre-determined qualities. At the same time, I'm a customization whore so I need some tinkering and it needs to feel meaningful, it's probably why I never took to IX's system very well cause it always felt like minor specialization half the time.
X's annoys me cause it gives the illusion of choice but it really doesn't come into play until later and then all it really does is make everyone a clone of each other who spams Dual Cast Holy and Quick Hit.
The basics work too well in VIII so my whole party is basically just drawing magic, summoning, using magic or Attack/Limit Break. The special skills are not effective enough to use all the time except Mug for Weapon farming and Card for keeping levels low...
VII and XII have some good options but it's just so easy to make everyone into copies of each other. You pretty much have to stay on the idea of keeping a diverse party instead of being lazy. The same goes with FFII.
My issues with I and IV is that there is little customization, so battles are more about party dynamics, of which only FFI gives you free reign over but since Monks and Red Mages are so smurfing broken and allow the player to prioritize spending resources on Warriors who are the third most broken class, FFI can be pretty easy once you get past a certain point in the game.
FFXIII tries harder to stick to roles but outside of some stat issues (which become pretty obsolete once you get a Sentinel in the party) the party does feel the same cause certain things don't carry as much weight like they use to, such as elemental affinity. The Equip system promises some better customization but its pretty easy to never notice any of them until you get a Ultimate Weapon which unlocks a extra ATB bar. In the end, the Break Gauge, sorta diminishes the value of certain Roles. It doesn't matter what element they are using, you just need a ravager to raise the gauge higher, it doesn't really matter who has the highest strength cause once the enemy is broken anyone can do insane damage. For the hardest bosses in the game, you don't need strategy as much as just patience to spam the Death spell til it finally takes.
VI is weird, I never cared about all your characters learning magic, nor do I see how this makes them all the same since it basically only affect two characters whom magic was their niche. Especially considering the games mechanics are so broken that teaching magic to everyone is kind of a waste of time cause half the cast have better skills than most magics or insanely broken equip/relic set-ups that make dual casting Ultima feel like the poor man's way of doing things. It keeps it's diversity for me but only cause the game has too many ways to be broken mechanically.
Which brings us to III and V. I love the job class system cause it gives me both. I have to customize my individual jobs but at the same time, a good party does not work well without a little variety and even better, since each job has its own restrictions I have to be careful of party dynamics (more III than V). The Sub-Job system in V also gives me a ton of customization options. So for me, it's the best of both worlds. Sure Freelancers and Mimes are broken in V and Onion Knight in III but they both require a ton of work to get to that point, which is a nice change of pace compared to most of the other games where they are pretty easy to break.
I prefer customization. Though admittedly it often leads to imbalances, but what FF hasn't been imbalanced?!
So for me V and Tactics are my faves when it comes to combat(tactics in particular). Job Class Changing System for the win!
I like having a pre-determined path during the storyline. Postgame though, I like being able to have everyone learn everything. However, there should still be a difference between the characters, like their limits or like in FFX, their weapon abilities.
The problem with XII was the fact that while each character may end up with a better base stat in one area than the others, you could never find out 'who's who' until you get to the endgame, by which point you've long since decided what's what.
I like somewhat predetermined roles. 4's I loved the best, even if it is pretty simple compared to games nowadays. I also enjoyed the class system of 3 and 5. So I guess I hafta say that I like a little bit of both. In 7, I gave Aeris mostly healing materia, and in III and V I had characters that knew mostly white magic or black magic, or whom I focused on either strength or speed. 9 didn't have very much room to work with for your characters, which was fine by me. However, a predetermined cast of characters doesn't leave much room for replayability unfortunately. So I would say perhaps something more along the lines of the job class system, where you can choose your character's stats and abilities without them all being clones.
I prefer predetermined roles. But I like both ways really.
I just hated the way it was in XII because all the characters were quite literally EXACTLY the same. People are pointing out VII but at least in VII they all had their own set of different limit breaks and different weapons. Same with VIII, X and XIII. XII is the only one where your characters are all just the exact same blank empty shells of characters in battle.
That's not to say I didn't think FFXII was a fabulous game in it's own right.
yeah if you have them pick the exact same skillsQuote:
Originally Posted by DMKA
I like predetermined roles. Very little FFs have these and we need more FF games to include them(FF IV, FF IV:TAY, FF IX, FF XII:RW are the only ones I can think that have predetermined roles. FF I probably counts too but I'm not sure). However, I'm cool with customizing my own characters in other FF games. I always make characters proficient in something and never create equals. Like in my recent through playthrough of FF VI Advance, I designated only 4 characters to be in proficient in magic(I made Setzer a Black Mage, Relm a White Mage with Buffs and debuffs, Celes a Paladin with all White Magic, and Terra a Red Mage of sorts. I'm actually enjoying the game this way).
Then why don't you just pick the licenses you want your characters to learn and the ignore the rest?Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKA
Or just purchase the International version where you can actually select them jobs(That is if you don't mind playing it in Japanese and there's 12 different license grids to choose from.)
The zodiac job system is super retarded. It's just permanently assigning your characters a specific part of the license board. The only thing it does is limiting your choices, it doesn't change the gameplay mechanics at all.
I wonder why they called it the International Version if it only shipped in Japan.
I've been wondering this since FFX.Quote:
Originally Posted by Depression Moon
III and V (and X-2) were that way too. The difference with those is that they all use the job system which is about 50 times better than the license board. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by DMKA
Actually Cloud's home town burned down as well, and he only starts off with Ice and Lightening materia. There's no powerful scene about it explicitly, but I always felt it was a slight nod to Rydia, and that Cloud is a black mage. He has blonde spikey hair instead of a yellow pointy hat. He wears all blue, and after Aeris leaves, he's the most powerful magic user in the game. I highly disagree that VII's characters were carbon copies - exploiting each characters attributes, like loading Cloud down with materia, will make his magic noticeably more powerful than anyone else, but at the same time his attack won't come close to anyone else's like Barrett. Most people probably don't notice because the battles are quite easy regardless, and for that reason I recommend running from all battles in Mako Reactor No. 1 in the intro.Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Murder
Honestly, I'm shocked that so many people prefer pre-determined roles. To me, character development (/progression if you're deluded enough to think you're a literary critic) is the hallmark of RPG gameplay. I love having lots of control in my games and being able to shape and mold each character however I like throughout the course of the story. My FFVII example above is a big part of why it's my favorite game. Overall I prefer an RPG where the player has total freedom in how to shape their characters, but a keener player who pays attention and reads the statistics menu will be able to capitalize on each character's strengths.
I also like games like FFIX because although each one is a set job class, there's tons of possibilities for how to shape that character within that class. For example, you can focus on making Zidane and expert thief doing all kinds of sneaky stuff, or just making him a powerhouse attacker, which is further opened up to choosing whether to give him dual knives, or a two-bladed sword. Actually one of FFVI's redeeming qualities to me is how it combines stat-reading with the equipment system; having two relic slots makes it a highly customizable game from an equipment standpoint. I like figuring out which characters to give which magic and which ones to give killer equipment to reap the benefits from their attack and dexterity/equivalent stats.
It's for this reason that I can't really count FFIV as among the better Final Fantasy games.
In all honesty, I've yet to really be 100% disappointed by a Final Fantasy job system. I've enjoyed every one I've played so far. If I had to pick one I didn't really catch on with it's probably XII. I agree that a lack of limit breaks adds to this, but I just ended up cycling my characters without any real regard for who they were. Perhaps at the very start I may have favoured Penelo as a mage, or something similar to that, but it's only because of the way the licences had panned out at that time. Once things got to about half-way point, everyone's licence boards were relatively full and it wasn't much of a challenge anymore. Run around, hit things, gain experience, move on. I didn't pay attention to what characters I had. That's probably a very bad sign for an RPG battle system, now that I think about it. In VII and VIII I paid attention, but only because I liked certain characters and their general feel in battle.
For pre-determined jobs such as in IX and X I really enjoyed being a bit more tactical for the most part. As time moved on, sure, certain jobs became less obvious but I don't think to an extent that they were no longer relevant. For example, if I knew that a tough enemy was weak to magic, I wouldn't think twice about drafting in Lulu immediately. To not do so would be insane for me. So that tells me that the jobs were still noticeable.
FFV remains my overall favourite job system. It is, as Murd pointed out, still a carbon copy system... but it's so damned fun.
The one thing I'd love to see is a modern FF using customisable pre-determined jobs. In other words, you do choose the jobs, but they are fixed once chosen. I think that would allow for a lot of replay value and I don't recall seeing such a thing in modern JRPGs. Please let me know if you know of a good JRPG that uses such a thing!
The zodiac job system in FF12 Int. does that and it sucks ballsQuote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
That's not a job though. The Zodiac system is more like assigning your team permanent limit breaks.
Yeah, you're right. But those job systems are fun (particularly V's and X-2's were wonderful).Quote:
Originally Posted by Del MurderIII and V (and X-2) were that way too. The difference with those is that they all use the job system which is about 50 times better than the license board. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by DMKA
I enjoy predetermined characters far more, because they seem to feel much more integrated into the story. However, in a tactics style game, like FFT, I love those job systems.
what are you talking about? the zodiac job system means you pick out one of several jobs for your character which are basically just isolated parts of the license grid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Murder
Oh, I thought you were talking about the summons. :p
I would say I like the predetermined ones better, but my favorites are the job systems from V and X-2.
What I love about these two is the meticulous micromanaging I can do. I love micromanaging my characters. :heart: Also, your parties have [mostly] the same members throughout the game, so there's no need to ignore any characters. :D
I hate X and XIII because your characters are designed to grow the exact same way every time you pay the game, but it's disguised in some pseudo-optional manner. It's just irritating to have to manually grow your characters when they really don't have much choice anyway.