I'm so much better than you at being a gamer!

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Originally Posted by nirojan

If any of you want to continue this discussion (and you probably will) lets move it to a more appropriate area, like the general gaming section to dispute our differences of opinions and leave KH3D alone. Anyone care to start a Hardcore thread or a PSP vs DS thread, be my guest. I don't want to continue this on a KH thread.

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Just following requests.

Since nirojan asked so nicely to have the silly discussion moved from the Kingdom Hearts 3DS thread, I'll just toss what I was gonna say in here. Originally people were being all pissy about whether the DS or PSP were more "hardcore", but I guess you can discuss why the "hardcore gamer" group of elitist pricks exist and stuff too if you want. Whatever floats your boat, I'm just filling someone's entreaty.

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Originally Posted by nirojan

Besides, the original argument wasn't about SMT, it was about which handheld was more "hardcore"! In that regard PSP takes a sh*t on the DS. Look at all the genres that appeal to hardcore gamers: Shooters (killzone liberation, Resistance Retribution, Socom Fireteam Bravo series, The 3rd Birthday, etc.),

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Most hardcorelawl shooting fans would probably prefer to play it on a system that works well for the genre. Just my thoughts though.

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Originally Posted by nirojan

Action Adventure (don't even bother arguing: God of War Chains of Olympus, GOW: Ghost of sparta, Monster Hunter series, Daxter, Metal Gear Solid: Portale Ops, MGS: Peace Walker,etc.),

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Think I will: Zelda Phantom Hourglass & Spirit Tracks, Ninja Gaiden: Dragon Sword, Castlevania Dawn of Sorrow/Portrait of Ruin/Order of Ecclesia, Henry Hatsworth and the Puzzling Adventure, New Super Mario Bros., Ōkamiden, Sonic Rush, etc.

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Originally Posted by nirojan

ARPGs (FFVII:Crisis Core, KH: BBS, etc.),

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Rune Factory series, Kingdom Hearts Re:coded, Infinite Space, The World Ends With You, etc.

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Originally Posted by nirojan

SRPGs (again don't bother with this one: Valkyria Chronicles II, VC:III, Jeanne D'Arc, Final Fantasy Tactics:War of the Lions, Tactics Ogre: Let us cling Together,etc.)

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Oh, I'll give it a bother: Valkyrie Profile: Covenant of the Plume, Luminous Arc series, Advance Wars series, Final Fantasy Tactics Advance 2, Rondo of Swords, Knights in the Nightmare, Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon, etc.

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Originally Posted by nirojan

"hardcore" is NOT a matter of opinion.

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No, but knowing what it means makes you look less like an ass.

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Originally Posted by nirojan

A hc genre is constituted by what hardcore gamers play.

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There is no such thing as a "hardcore" genre. Hardcore is an adjective that is applied to those faithful and dedicated to something and resistant to change. Just because certain gamer twats felt the need to nurse their superiority complex by giving themselves a title means nothing.

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Originally Posted by nirojan

I have a PS3, X360, PSP, DS, $2500 gaming rig and I spend about $700-1000/year and get all major AAA titles and most japanese niche titles as well. Does that make me a Hardcore gamer?... F**K NO!!

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Fixed it for ya.

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Originally Posted by nirojan

I don't know how you consider yourself a Hardcore gamer, but being a hc gamer is NOT a matter of opinion.

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If I play every Harvest Moon game religiously, know the ins and outs of every game in the series, and can do them in my sleep, I am a hardcore gamer. Deal.

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Originally Posted by nirojan

There is a clear divide between the casual and the hardcore. Just buying JRPGs doesn't constitute Hardcore. It doesn't mean your casual, but neither are you knee deep like us.

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Hey look, more self-aggrandizing in a desire for any feeling of worth. What are the odds?

It seems that most people like the ds better, but how I define hardcore is nose to the grindstone, and while the ds may have a wider variety of unique games, the psp has more games that reward those who stick it out and fight to the end: warriors orochi 2, crisis core, secret agent clank, all ps1 games, dissidia, and size matters to name a few, whereas the ds only has a few. These games have the more substansial feel of a PS2 game as opposed to a ds's cartoonyness. The ds is for fun, the psp is for SOLDIERs.

On the topic of which console is better, psp or ds:

It depends on the user. If the user is a male between the ages of 15 and 35 probably his best bet is going to be the PSP system, there are far more games what appeal to this demographic on the PSP than there are on the DS, that isn't to say there isn't DS games what do appeal to this demographic but there are more well known/regarded series on the PSP. Otherwise however the DS has much broader appeal than the PSP over all it offers more variety of type of game but less realistic graphics it comes down to if the prospective owner is a complete graphics whore or a gameplay person. A graphics whore will choose the PSP time and time again because it looks better (undeniable, all nintendo consoles have managed to be fun but display graphically as a pile of junk. The 64 in it's day was being out done by the visual's on the PS1 and Dreamcast, the Cube suffered much the same fate against the PS2 and Xbox and then the Wii is just out of it's depth with the PS3 and 360 consoles though even the Wii can provide simplistic fun for all people)

Mainly for the benefit of Nirojan but on the topic of the hardcore gaming theme running through the quotes in the original post of this thread:

As for hardcore game genres, these don't exist. There are games which people play in a "hardcore" or "addicted" way. I am no exception I would openly admit I play more Halo than is healthy, I suppose in a sense I play Halo "hardcore" lol. In fact hardcore games don't exist full stop. Hardcore is a term to describe how a person applies themselves to the challenge/task set before them. If I was to go free running around my local town centre rather than walk it normally I might be described as taking the "hardcore route" if I sat down and grinded my way through Halo Reach on Solo Legendary in one sitting with all skulls on without using a guide for such a challenge (such as the one made by Tyrant) then I could be described as having a "hardcore gaming session" but otherwise if you forbid the use of the word hardcore, all I am doing is free running or taking an alternative route or in the second example I would just be having a gaming session.

If having all the current generation consoles a high powered "gaming rig" and a large collection of games made me "hardcore" this would be much like saying because I have a full weights gym set up in my home I am a professional body builder. I might have the equipment but that doesn't make it true, I could have it all there and only use 1/10th of the equipment present. All the gaming equipment and titles means is that you have perhaps too much disposable income to spend on games and should really think about purchasing quality over quantity and free up some disposable income to spend on more useful things such as moving out of your parents basement or something along those lines.

Your reccurring points about stating how hardcore you are are much like the crazy man declaring himself crazy it's pointless self affirmation of a lie. People who often call themselves crazy or insane are generally not, if you can rationally think it through and say "God damn, I must be crazy to do these things" then you're not crazy, foolish maybe but not crazy. Crazy people believe without doubt that their path is the most logical of paths and cannot see why we think that they might be unhinged. By stating how hardcore you are you make me think that maybe you're not hardcore at all and that you are desperately floundering in a discussion you cannot win because you do not have the knowlege or facts to back up your claims. Get over it quickly, the less you claim you are a hardcore gamer the more people might actually begin to see you as one.

@ Rose
I lol'd that you started this, didn't think anyone would bother, but I'm glad there's at least one sad life out there with some balls! My life needing self worth? Yet you're the one who took time out of your day to come and respond to me :D. And by the way your a complete joke with your counter arguments. What pathetic rhetoric for your genre counters. Reason why you skipped shooters? Cause DS doesn't have any (ohh unless you wanted to bring up those COD ports). I'll agree fps is not that great without dual analogs, but you clearly havn't played any of these titles so no point in arguing if you don't have the experience. Action adventure: you use Zelda and Mario (which everyone likes) to compensate for the crap of the other titles. Okamiden I admit is good, but god why did bring that crappy NG game for? Legacy PS1 games aside, The GOW and MGS titles alone should bring the PSP on top with a rock slide. ARPG: Re:Coded was pathetic, Rune Factory and the World ends with you are amazing. SRPGs(I don't think you looked into this much): We have VP:Lenneth (remake of the original), Tactics advance 2 is not as good as WOTL and we have a better version of Knights in the Knightmare (in fact we have the whole trilogy, Riveria and Yggrda union).

And Yea im such an ass, thx for that. Hey if KB's an ass in your book than I guess it aint soo bad. Also thank you for whipping out your dictionary out to describe hardcore. Your join date is 2003 so i'm guessing your alot older than me (incase you doing the math, i was 12 when i joined eoff). Gamers today refer to hardcore as a "state" not the adjective that you so cleverly stated. Anyways im running out of time here, but the end all end all is: DO YOU EVEN HAVE A PSP? I'm almost positive you haven't played any of the shooters (you would've seen how they uniquely compensate for the lack of the second analog while keeping it engaging) any of the Action titles, because you clearly dont show any regard for how amazing those titles are and you should have at least taken the time to google all the srpg titles (with all the releases and better ports the PSP has over the DS). You know arguments presented without input from both sides (having both systems to compare) are flawed right? Not to mention biased! I entered the argument, because I have a DS, in fact I play it everyday on my way to school on the subway and when I have time to kill at the library. I have played a portion of the titles you stated and have at least heard of the others. And your discontent with how much money i sink into the industry leads me to believe that you pirate games and therefore don't appreciate my input into the gaming ecosystem. If you do pirate games, good for you cause you a filthy thief lol. But really, did you actually buy those DS titles you claimed? Yeah yeah i know,this is the internet and could just lie, but here's hoping.

@Iceglow: I'm 18 havn't looked into moving out of the basement lmao! And thank you for that run down of hardcore gaming! If you think I'm bad, you havn't been on other gaming sites. I'm a saint compared to those "hardcore gamers"! STOP TAKING IT SERIOUSLY! We're just trolling this it wasn't meant to be a serious discussion. And yeah I do have alot of disposable income (courtesy of my JOB <-you guy might wanna look into that miracle too, it helps against self-poverty), but what do I use it for? Already have a car, pc, laptop, clothes, money for s**t, etc. and most things people in my year at uni don't. So i spend on video games, a hobby im passionate about. How that resonates to me being a bum living in a "basement" is beyond me. Mabey that's your own current living circumstances that you soo aptly described. And you clearly have a doctorate when it comes to analyzing posts and stupid comments by the way you gauged my sanity through that.

And you know what guys? I'm gonna back off with the Hardcore arguments....think I went too far there and some people latched on too passionately (Responding like I shoved a log up their ass). Will gladly continue PSP vs DS though! :D

PS. Any admin/Cid's looking at this going "wtf" dont worry this is a flame-bait-troll-filled thread that we're just doing for fun (at least I am). I only responded cause he called me an elitist prick. :)

I like how some people think being a "hardcore gamer" is something to brag about.

lol

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Originally Posted by DMKA

I like how some people think being a "hardcore gamer" is something to brag about.

lol

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Thats kinda my point, really what was it in the Ciddies recently I got voted 3rd most hardcore gamer on this place? Frankly imho thats an awful result I wanna be voted like the "never gonna be the most hardcore gamer on here" winner because frankly all being a "hardcore gamer" brings to my mind is negative images mostly involving having no social life to speak of. Frankly in my opinion I am a gamer yes, no point denying that since I play games. However thats where it comes to a close, I play games but I have way too much of a social life to keep on top of to ever be considered "hardcore"

Neither the PSP or the DS is a good system.

ITT: casuals

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Originally Posted by Bunny

Neither the PSP or the DS is a good system.

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Lol.

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I lol'd that you started this, didn't think anyone would bother, but I'm glad there's at least one sad life out there with some balls! My life needing self worth? Yet you're the one who took time out of your day to come and respond to me.

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You're taking the "I laugh at people who take things seriously" posture so that you can brush them off as unimportant when the issue clearly seems quite important to you. You follow this up through your entire post with ad hominem attacks.

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Action adventure: you use Zelda and Mario (which everyone likes) to compensate for the crap of the other titles. Okamiden I admit is good, but god why did bring that crappy NG game for? Legacy PS1 games aside, The GOW and MGS titles alone should bring the PSP on top with a rock slide. ARPG: Re:Coded was pathetic, Rune Factory and the World ends with you are amazing. SRPGs(I don't think you looked into this much): We have VP:Lenneth (remake of the original), Tactics advance 2 is not as good as WOTL and we have a better version of Knights in the Knightmare (in fact we have the whole trilogy, Riveria and Yggrda union).

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So now you basically make this self-centered. "I don't like any of the titles, therefore the platform has no good titles." I hate seeing this rhetoric, though it's usually applied to the PSP.

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If you think I'm bad, you havn't been on other gaming sites. I'm a saint compared to those "hardcore gamers"! STOP TAKING IT SERIOUSLY!

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Once again, dismissive of how serious others are taking it as a defense against how serious you seem to be taking it. Also, just because there are people on the internet that are superior asshats to yourself doesn't mean you're not being an asshat. It's like kicking puppies and defending yourself by saying that you're not as bad as people who run over puppies with cars. Both people are still despicable.

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We're just trolling this it wasn't meant to be a serious discussion.

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If you are just trolling, take it elsewhere.

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And yeah I do have alot of disposable income (courtesy of my JOB <-you guy might wanna look into that miracle too, it helps against self-poverty), but what do I use it for? Already have a car, pc, laptop, clothes, money for s**t, etc. and most things people in my year at uni don't.

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Either you have an amazingly cushy job or your making some big talk. My guess is that your job gives you disposable income, but you still rely heavily on your parents. It's unlikely that at 18 you're completely independent and have managed to purchase all of the things you claim without someone else paying for the majority of your expenses. There's nothing wrong with getting help from your parents in addition to a job. It's great that you have one, but you shouldn't be quite so proud of yourself.

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How that resonates to me being a bum living in a "basement" is beyond me. Mabey that's your own current living circumstances that you soo aptly described.

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I see how you turned that around on him. How clever of you.




On to my own opinions.

DS vs PSP
This is an apples and oranges comparison and I personally like all types of fruits. I like both systems and both have enough games that make me glad about their purchase. Whether or not one is better is pretty subjective. Some people will like games only on one or the other. Some will purchase one and find the need to defend that purchase by putting down the other. Then some people will just enjoy playing games and not care what platform it is on and not try to prove one better than the other at the end of the day.


Hardcore vs Casual
This is such a silly argument to get into. Despite nirojan's entreaty that ""hardcore" is NOT a matter of opinion", in fact, it's just that. There are no games that are more harcore than others. What makes someone hardcore is a blurry line defined different by individuals. Someone will say you're not hardcore if you don't play only on the hardest difficulty. Someone will say you're not hardcore if you've ever enjoyed a Wii game.

I just want to play games and have fun. I play a great variety of games. To many standards I would be considered hardcore and to others I wouldn't be. I don't care.

If you care about defining yourself as a hardcore gamer, then you have a problem. You're just another pathetic scene freak who needs to identify with a niche in society through clothing, music or... games. Sure, you might be financially well off. You might make good grades. You might not live in mom's basement, but if all of your self-worth comes from how hardcore of a gamer you are and how much you can belittle those who aren't.... you have a problem.

I just define Hardcore as someone who has a strong passion for gaming.

How far you take that passion and how much you let it interfere with other aspects of your life is another story entirely. :p

Me? I'd consider Hardcore without at doubt.

@Year
plz read my posts more carefully, i said "I already have", doesn't mean i bought it, but that it's already in my possession. Yes my mom paid for half my car, never claimed the contrary. My job isn't amazingly "cushy", but I work 4 days a week. You may not think that's much, but for a 1st year that's like suicide! Why the hell wouldn't I be proud of my self? I think I'm amazingly independent compared to most other people my age. And your comments as to the seriousness of this thread, the other guys, with the exception of Iceglow, aren't taking it too seriously either. I like how you relate the fact that I'm responding as a sign that I'm serious about a dispute, seriousness doesn't really factor into this much. I'm just curious as to how they respond. Didn't say it wasn't important to me, just that I'm not gonna hunt them down for this. Besides I'm not shrugging s**t off,I'm responding to your nitpickings aren't I? If that seems like the "serious" nature you described then that's your opinion on my attitude to this issue. That's definitely not how I feel about it though. They're cracking obvious jokes for the pleasure of comedy and probably cause they think they're making me feel stupid. Again with the self-worth comments....damn did all of you gets some initiation back during the old days of eoff? Some glorified test to make you feel like s**t? Dissecting my comment bit-by-bit just like Rase, lol what is this your second account or something?

So can we get back to the topic or is this thread all about me :confused:?

Whether or not you intended, you're coming off as "holier than thou".

As for "hardcore" in reference to gaming, it really only applied two ways. There's "hardcore" as in "hardcore" games versus casual games which caused a lot of strife for the Wii. Hardcore here takes the meaning of games that require dedication and tend not to be simply picked up whimsically, and casual referring to shovelware and games that can be picked up for 30 minutes at a time and often lack substance. Then there's hardcore used to describe someone's disposition to gaming or a specific title/series.

Best example of a game that blurs the line: Pokemon. Laugh all you want, Pokemon is often viewed as a casual game, and definitely it can be, but you can be hardcore about it too. Given the mechanics of breeding and battling up until Gen IV, not to mention the new mechanics Gen V will bring, Pokemon can be a vastly complex gaming experience. Without a doubt, I'd call someone who knows the ins-and-outs of Pokemon to be hardcore (in reference to Pokemon). It is really how you approach it: it can be either.

I was gonna just leave this to die but I saw some things which made me lol.

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Originally Posted by Nirojan

And yeah I do have alot of disposable income (courtesy of my JOB <-you guy might wanna look into that miracle too, it helps against self-poverty), but what do I use it for? Already have a car, pc, laptop, clothes, money for s**t, etc. and most things people in my year at uni don't. So i spend on video games, a hobby im passionate about. How that resonates to me being a bum living in a "basement" is beyond me. Mabey that's your own current living circumstances that you soo aptly described.

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You're right about me being older than you, you're the same age as my eldest nephew, some 7 years younger than me. As for things to spend money on? How about holidays, see the world travel somewhere outside of the USA and actually live? As for being a bum living in my parent's basement, well consider 90% of homes in the UK don't actually have a basement, they have a loft but nothing below the home. Add in to this my age, working a full time job, having a life and you can do the maths, I don't live at home with the parents. I've been back for periods of time where my life has gotten rough leaving me no other choice but by the time I was 19 I was living alone or with friends. Love how you attempt to turn it around on me.

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Originally Posted by Nirojan

My job isn't amazingly "cushy", but I work 4 days a week. You may not think that's much, but for a 1st year that's like suicide! Why the hell wouldn't I be proud of my self? I think I'm amazingly independent compared to most other people my age.

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You work 4 days a week is that 4 full days a week or is that half shifts? Please indulge me on this because you're sitting there quite smugly saying "I'm proud of myself for working" when frankly you could be working less than 16 hours a week which anyone, student or not could do. I know people who have worked full time jobs and studied in the UK, I know someone who studied and worked 2 jobs, both of which would have counted as full time. Sometimes people just do what they do and don't expect a blue peter badge for doing so, clearly you do expect the blue peter badge because frankly you wouldn't go on about how damn proud you are otherwise.

Can we please stay away from the personal attacks and insults? Stick to discussing what makes a hardcore gamer, and/or how PSP and DS relates to that. The personal lives of individual members are not a valid topic for discussion.

I basically agree with The Summoner of Leviathan. The initial argument on the KH 3D thread was actually my fault (sorry :jess:), since I was kinda angry at Hypoallergenic Cactuar for saying something along the lines of "the DS is stupid, hardcore gamers like the PSP". To prove a point I gave the example of SMT: Strange Journey, and that's where all the craziness began. Like SoL, I think that a "hardcore" gaem is one that demands a huge amount of commitment (i. e. grinding) and it's not a game you can just play for an hour and leave it there. A perfect example is the Shin Megami Tensei series - when it comes to jRPGs of course. You won't survive if you don't grind enough/have just the right party combination/just the right strategy for a particular bos. Random encounters can destroy you, so you have to be on the alert at all times - pretty much the definition of hardcore to me. I also gave the example of "Mario and Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story" as a casual game. It does not require grinding, the battles are fun and light and you can basically just pick it up any time you want. I love it :D
But then again, I still think the "hardcore" stuff depends on opinion. I can basically only relate to RPGs since I hardly play any other gaming genres. And I also don't think genres can be "hardcore" or "casual" - only specific games.

I think you're hardcore if you play through a game without enjoying it, just so you can get to the "good bits later".

Like grinding forever in a game before you can fight a boss that doesn't really give you anything you need anymore because you're too strong.

That's hard core, and also a bit sad.

A much more fun term is pro gamer. If you aren't that, you're just small fry.

Just because I'm better than everyone else doesn't mean I want to paint myself as hardcore. That term, really, just conjures up images of people (teenagers, occasionally pre-teens) who mindlessly play FPS. That's not hardcore, that's just... :bou::bou::bou::bou:.

The more serious gamers will look at a PSP because it has some more serious games. The DS has a lot more pick-up-and-play games, though there are still quality games that fall into that category.

Hardcore just makes me want to headdesk. I like a wide variety of games. Different consoles are just the industry's way of inconveniencing me.

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Originally Posted by Jiro

Just because I'm better than everyone else doesn't mean I want to paint myself as hardcore. That term, really, just conjures up images of people (teenagers, occasionally pre-teens) who mindlessly play FPS. That's not hardcore, that's just... :bou::bou::bou::bou:.

The more serious gamers will look at a PSP because it has some more serious games. The DS has a lot more pick-up-and-play games, though there are still quality games that fall into that category.

Hardcore just makes me want to headdesk. I like a wide variety of games. Different consoles are just the industry's way of inconveniencing me.

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Am I going to need to list all the more serious DS titles instead? Has this not been done enough already? :p

Just because a console has lots of accidental, any which way, bits-and-pieces, blind, capricious, careless, casual , chance, desultory, directionless, drifting, erratic, fanciful, fickle, fits and starts, flighty, fortuitous, frivolous, goalless, haphazard, heedless, hit-or-miss, indecisive, indiscriminate, irresolute, objectless, pointless, purposeless, random, shiftless, stray, thoughtless, unavailing, undirected, unguided, unplanned, unpredictable, vagrant, wandering, wanton, wayward games doesn't have any effect on the number of determined, devoted, die-hard, dyed-in-the-wool, explicit, extreme, faithful, intransigent, obstinate, resolute, rigid, staunch, steadfast, stubborn, uncompromising, unwaivering, unyielding games the system has. The DS has more total games, so having a larger number of one type of title doesn't make the other mutually exclusive.

*thesaurus results for casual and hardcore. Take your pick so we can stop nitpicking about language.

Just because a console has lots of erratic games doesn't have any effect on the number of intransigent games the system has. The DS has more total games, so having a larger number of one type of title doesn't make the other mutually exclusive.

:>

"Just making the shiniest, most expensive hardware doesn't cut it these days. Sure the PSP was beautiful and posh, whereas the DS was definitely the ugly sister. But hey, the ugly sister is better in the sack."

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Originally Posted by NeoCracker

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Originally Posted by Jiro

Just because I'm better than everyone else doesn't mean I want to paint myself as hardcore. That term, really, just conjures up images of people (teenagers, occasionally pre-teens) who mindlessly play FPS. That's not hardcore, that's just... :bou::bou::bou::bou:.

The more serious gamers will look at a PSP because it has some more serious games. The DS has a lot more pick-up-and-play games, though there are still quality games that fall into that category.

Hardcore just makes me want to headdesk. I like a wide variety of games. Different consoles are just the industry's way of inconveniencing me.

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Am I going to need to list all the more serious DS titles instead? Has this not been done enough already? :p

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I was going to give examples of pick-up-and-play games on the DS but could only think of serious games :p Basically the DS is better suited to shovelware, but the hell do I care, I play good games. A list isn't necessary my good man.

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Originally Posted by Jiro

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Originally Posted by NeoCracker

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Originally Posted by Jiro

Just because I'm better than everyone else doesn't mean I want to paint myself as hardcore. That term, really, just conjures up images of people (teenagers, occasionally pre-teens) who mindlessly play FPS. That's not hardcore, that's just... :bou::bou::bou::bou:.

The more serious gamers will look at a PSP because it has some more serious games. The DS has a lot more pick-up-and-play games, though there are still quality games that fall into that category.

Hardcore just makes me want to headdesk. I like a wide variety of games. Different consoles are just the industry's way of inconveniencing me.

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Am I going to need to list all the more serious DS titles instead? Has this not been done enough already? :p

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I was going to give examples of pick-up-and-play games on the DS but could only think of serious games :p Basically the DS is better suited to shovelware, but the hell do I care, I play good games. A list isn't necessary my good man.

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It's only more suited for shovel ware cause the system that's sold more is where the shovel ware ends up. :p

I actually find a lot more quality titles on the DS that are more serious games then quality ones on PSP. Of course, I'm still a huge RPG nut, and DS probably has the most RPG's of any system out right now, consoles included. :p

@Iceglow:
seriously would have retorted, but i think I'm gonna stick to what Rantzien said and lay off. Good for you for being soo clever!!

Anyways glad the thread is back on topic.

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Originally Posted by NeoCracker

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Originally Posted by Jiro

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Originally Posted by NeoCracker

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Originally Posted by Jiro

Just because I'm better than everyone else doesn't mean I want to paint myself as hardcore. That term, really, just conjures up images of people (teenagers, occasionally pre-teens) who mindlessly play FPS. That's not hardcore, that's just... :bou::bou::bou::bou:.

The more serious gamers will look at a PSP because it has some more serious games. The DS has a lot more pick-up-and-play games, though there are still quality games that fall into that category.

Hardcore just makes me want to headdesk. I like a wide variety of games. Different consoles are just the industry's way of inconveniencing me.

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Am I going to need to list all the more serious DS titles instead? Has this not been done enough already? :p

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I was going to give examples of pick-up-and-play games on the DS but could only think of serious games :p Basically the DS is better suited to shovelware, but the hell do I care, I play good games. A list isn't necessary my good man.

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It's only more suited for shovel ware cause the system that's sold more is where the shovel ware ends up. :p

I actually find a lot more quality titles on the DS that are more serious games then quality ones on PSP. Of course, I'm still a huge RPG nut, and DS probably has the most RPG's of any system out right now, consoles included. :p

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Your right about the DS selling enough units to make it a shovelware magnet, but I think you greatly underestimate the PSP library (quality over quantity). Both systems have good titles, I've said that many times over, but the PSP has better QUALITY TITLES!

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Originally Posted by nirojan

Your right about the DS selling enough units to make it a shovelware magnet, but I think you greatly underestimate the PSP library (quality over quantity). Both systems have good titles, I've said that many times over, but the PSP has better QUALITY TITLES!

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I'll agree with half of this. Quality is more important than quantity. Problem is, one persons opinion about what counts as quality is kinda shifty when talking about a subjective medium like gaming.

Saying one is better than the other because you personally judge some of the games as higher quality is seeping into fanboy territory. There's also the chance of confirmation bias where you're assuming the DS is full of crap, notice the crap and point it out while simultaneously saying that the exceptions are few.

I love the quality of games on both systems. There are fantastic games for each, but it's hardly a quantifiable thing that can be put on the scale to see who the winner is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nirojan

Your right about the DS selling enough units to make it a shovelware magnet, but I think you greatly underestimate the PSP library (quality over quantity). Both systems have good titles, I've said that many times over, but the PSP has better QUALITY TITLES!

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This is a subjective judgment which as no bearing on the argument. As a matter of opinion, it is inadmissible as evidence as to why the PSP should be considered better or more hardcore (a truly laughable notion) than the DS.

On that note, what is and is not hardcore is also completely subjective. There is no universal "hardcore gamer" standard; incidentally, this argument is therefore meaningless.

For your reference, during my freshman year of college, I owned every major video game console and spent approximately $2,000 on my video gaming habit. At the time, I regarded myself as a relatively hardcore gamer as a result. And why not? I spent a whole lot of time playing video games.

In 2010, I spent under $300 on video games. I now play video games for a couple hours every week because I'm busy doing other things (two jobs, multiple student organizations, and partying much harder than I probably should). I'll let you try and figure out which lifestyle I like more.

@Year & Ouch
Okay So i understand why you guys are dismissing my opinion as to which system should take the cake, but I'm just trying to the edge off the "DS superiority complex" running rampant around around here. There acting like the PSP has no games, and most people do not have both systems to compare, yet still arc that the DS is superior. And Ouch, good for you for turning you life around, but please refrain from any more personal life info. I really couldn't care less, the other guys were practically asking me to retort to them in a manner which I had to bring up my habbits.

No one said the DS is superior, only that what constitutes as a "quality game" is very subjective. De gustibus non est disputandum. If you prefer one genre to another, you may come to the conclusion one gaming system is better, has better quality titles. Or not. It really all depends and you souldn't take it all so personally.

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Originally Posted by nirojan

@Year & Ouch
Okay So i understand why you guys are dismissing my opinion as to which system should take the cake, but I'm just trying to the edge off the "DS superiority complex" running rampant around around here. There acting like the PSP has no games, and most people do not have both systems to compare, yet still arc that the DS is superior. And Ouch, good for you for turning you life around, but please refrain from any more personal life info. I really couldn't care less, the other guys were practically asking me to retort to them in a manner which I had to bring up my habbits.

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I get that it's frustrating for people who like Sony products. For handhelds it seems that DS rules the roost in the opinions of most. For consoles the vast majority prefer 360.

I love my PSP and I defend it, but using spurious arguments about the superlative nature of one tech over another isn't going to help. Bad arguments aren't effective in fighting bad arguments. The PSP is great, but you also have to realize that the library is a bit smaller overall than the DS library (even if you kick out the shovelware).

I think the PSP is a hard sell to people without a broad interest in games. To that end, perhaps it's more likely to be played by hardcore gamers. If you only like one genre of gaming, the PSP library of that genre might be a bit lacking.

But, at the end of the day, if other people don't like enough of the games on the PSP, then there's no point trying to convince them that it's a better system. Either there aren't enough exclusives that interest them or they just aren't interested in some of the types of games on the platform.

Their opinion doesn't affect how much I enjoy my PSP, so I couldn't care less about their opinion on the matter.

I understand why you might be defensive in the face of the DS love fest that is the internet (though I don't necessarily see it so badly here), but a better tactic would be to argue the worth of the PSP on its own rather than vs the DS. Telling someone your hardware is better than theirs puts them on the defensive and makes them shut down from any reasonable discussion on the matter.

I merely brought up personal experience as an example as to demonstrate how useless I think it is to argue about what qualifies one to be a "hardcore gamer." I'm not worried that you don't care as that wasn't the point of bringing it up the first place; rather, it was to demonstrate the evolution of my opinion towards so-called hardcore gaming, which I think is such a bull:bou::bou::bou::bou: concept as to not be deserving of argument.

Which is kind of what I thought this thread was supposed to be about.

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Originally Posted by Ouch!

I merely brought up personal experience as an example as to demonstrate how useless I think it is to argue about what qualifies one to be a "hardcore gamer." I'm not worried that you don't care as that wasn't the point of bringing it up the first place; rather, it was to demonstrate the evolution of my opinion towards so-called hardcore gaming, which I think is such a bull:bou::bou::bou::bou: concept as to not be deserving of argument.

Which is kind of what I thought this thread was supposed to be about.

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Well I actually intended it to be a PSP vs DS thread with the concept of which platform is more appealing to the hardcore gamers out there. Didn't think it would get twisted like that I do apologize for letting it slide that far.

NGP for the win

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Originally Posted by Hypoallergenic Cactuar

NGP for the win

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lol cactuar did you hear what it stands for?
"nintendo got pwned!"

Super excited for both NGP and 3DS! HOpe Sony announces the final name, price, release date soon!

Wow, this thread got ugly fast...

I won't really quote anyone but I do have to agree more with Yearg on this. Giving a designation of "Hardcore" and "causal" is pretty silly to me, and ultimately is just people trying to create some imaginary pseudo-social group that makes them feel superior to a larger group we know as gamers.

Yet, often people who utter this phrase to create distinction from themselves and others fail to realize that they are making up the rules that apply. What makes a game hardcore? What actually makes it casual? Difficulty? The majority of games are easy compared to the old days. No more use of "lives", infinite continues, regenerative health, and not to mention overpowered moves that often make you feel more awesome than the amount of effort you actually placed in it. Even in terms of difficulty, the old games were only hard cause they followed the arcade format and games had to be hard to force a player to put in more money.

It has to be real and gritty? Most games are certainly not realistic, and as for gritty, that's just an art direction and does not actually equate any more merit than saying water colors are less "art" than traditional oil based paints. I can bore you to tears by deconstructing the common tropes and cliches that people often use as descriptors for differentiating the two groups. Its pretty much subjective, and there are no actual "rules"or in stone defintions for either word. Who is more "hardcore", the guy who occasionally plays Halo with friends on Saturday nights, but has never even touched hard mode let alone Legendary, or the guy who spends every night playing Mine Sweeper til he gets so good he has a 98% success rate and can tell where every mine is after the first two moves because he recognizes which of the hundred pre-set scripts the game is using. I can tell you which one is probably getting more out of life.

Hell, by some people's definition of "Hardcore" I would say you can't count RPGs, simply because they hand you victory by playing. If you get stuck in an action game, you can't advance until you the player personally gets better. In an RPG, you can just keep fighting enemies repetitively until the game awards you with higher stats so you can beat the boss. That's not challenge, that's just work. You get a treat for playing, not because you better yourself.

Like NeoCracker I would say a hardcore gamer is simply someone who loves games and sets apart some time to play them. A casual gamer only whips out Rockband or Guitar Hero when friends are over, or to kill time before a movie comes on. A hardcore gamer is someone who goes home to play games to relax and has them as an active part of their lives.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Wow, this thread got ugly fast...

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My bad

This reminds me of the PS3v360 arguments. A lot.

I found a list of PSP titles and three lists of DS titles (not including DSi only).

The fact that there are more for DS proves nothing, I just thought it would be easier for everyone to continue fighting with examples :p

Short Answer: there are no casual consoles, only casual gamers :)

First, "Hardcore" and "Casual" are terms invented by market analysts to divide people who play games on their iPhone and Facebook-type browser games, as well as people who play non-traditional games on the Wii (Casual) from gamers who have PC, Xbox 360, or PS3 and play traditional games like Call of Duty and Madden. It's useful for identifying the two very different demographics who collectively spend an insane amount on games, but neither end of the spectrum represents true, real gamers and certainly not here.

The second divide comes from game enthusiasts on the internet who misinterpret what the divide actually means. They think it's a genre question, that shooters, racers, and sometimes RPG's (the 3 staples of the 360 and arguably PS3) are played by hardcore gamers, while social, music, and puzzles are played by casuals. This is very ironic, since the most popular shooters, Halo and Call of Duty, are widely played because of how quick and easy their matchmaking systems are. Games with more detailed gameplay like Killzone or more complex interfaces (most PC games) are shunned every week in mainstream podcasts like Invisible Walls or Epic Battle Axe by self-proclaimed "hardcore gamers."

Before this hideous, horrible generation of video games started, and the terms hardcore and casual along with it, a hardcore gamer to me was someone heavily involved with the modding community on counter-strike, or playing Japanese imports on a modded PlayStation. A casual gamer, to me, is someone who plays popular games every now and then, a couple games online here and there, and maybe sometimes dabbles in deeper games like Bioshock or Fallout 3, but then again, they probably wouldn't touch either of those or Mass Effect if those games weren't so much like the shooters they venerate.

People who play iOS games or Facebook-type browser games aren't "hardcore" or "casual." They're simply not gamers.

So saying the DS or PSP is more hardcore than the other isn't entirely fair. Both games have plenty of awesome experiences to immerse yourself in, a lot of traditional games that explore the boundaries of their respective genres. Summoner of Leviathan made an awesome point about Pokemon - it clearly has the casual appeal, but I'm playing Heart Gold right now and I'm stunned at how many options and concepts the game throws at you to lose yourself in. To me, that's just the hallmark of a great game designer.

Well, this is definitely a matter of opinion and if I had to weigh in on either side I would go with the PSP. Out of the RPG's I've played, even Pokemon with all of its options doesn't come close to how deep PSP titles are, which is why I feel like I'm playing "Big Boy RPG's" when I go back to my PSP. Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together just came out last night, and it can be added to the growing list including Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker and Valkyria Chronicles II, single games that blow every DS game out of the water. THe DS has more "pick up and play" allure, games that are specifically made for handhelds, and certainly a lot of PSP games fail because they try to be like console titles. But for games like Gran Turismo and Motorstorm, the console experience actually fits extremely well on a handheld, and if you can make games like Metal Gear fit that mold, and still have the same quality as the console experience, why would you ever go back to anything else? Ok, obviously that's a dumb statement cause I've gone back to Pokemon, but I was very dismissive of the PSP in the past and getting one in the last year totally changed my opinion on handhelds.

But like I said above, you can't totally dismiss the DS, hardcore gaming is a mindset and not tied to any platform. I know friends with 360's who only use it for downloadable games and mostly puzzles at that, I'd say they're far more casual than my friend who just got into video games and is playing Pokemon on her DS. Nirojan's ultimate question, which console would hardcore gamers lean towards, is a clear cut case for me, but both machines have withstood an usually long span of time, and still have awesome games coming out every year. You couldn't do wrong with either.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

Short Answer: there are no casual consoles, only casual gamers :)

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The Wii.

/thread

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

Before this hideous, horrible generation of video games started, and the terms hardcore and casual along with it, a hardcore gamer to me was someone heavily involved with the modding community on counter-strike, or playing Japanese imports on a modded PlayStation. A casual gamer, to me, is someone who plays popular games every now and then, a couple games online here and there, and maybe sometimes dabbles in deeper games like Bioshock or Fallout 3, but then again, they probably wouldn't touch either of those or Mass Effect if those games weren't so much like the shooters they venerate.

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So, what do you call someone who doesn't mod, but who spends 95% of their free time (ie: when not asleep or working, but including meals) playing video games? Because I don't seem to fall into either of those two groups. Maybe I'm just a gamer. Something to be proud of.

A gaming enthusiast. I don't see a reason to want to be in the "hardcore gamer" category anyway. It just sounds silly and "tryhard".

I like games in the same way a gearhead likes cars (and stuff like that).

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Originally Posted by NorthernChaosGod

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

Short Answer: there are no casual consoles, only casual gamers :)

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The Wii.

/thread

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Monster Hunter Tri

Thread re-opened!


Anyways on a more serious note..... anything can be hardcore and anything can be casual. In the end this all boils down to preference. I don't consider games in and off themselves to be hardcore, only people who play them. I hate playing most FPS online, especially on consoles, because you have people who play them hardcore, as in that it is the only thing they play. They make it their life, and it detracts from my enjoyment of it.

The DS/PSP debate is the same as ANY OTHER debate in existence. I can take my own gaming history for a good example. Before I lived on my own, aka last gaming generation, I didn't have a lot of money. I always had nintendo systems growing up, I always enjoyed nintendo games, so I had a Gamecube and only a gamecube. I saw plenty of games on PS2 that I wanted, but I didn't have the money to own both. DS came out, had GBA games, wanted more nintendo games, got one. PSP came out had no games I wanted. Years later, in college, working some, buy a Wii. Same situation. PS3 way too expensive, 360 had no exclusive games I want. I graduate college, have a job, PS3 drops in price... I buy one. Now I have a PS3, went back and bought a PS2 for games I missed (plus as a DVD player), a Wii, a gaming computer, and a DS. Still want a PSP for a couple games, but not enough for me to warrant buying the system. Maybe in a few years it will be cheap enough for me to warrant it, like the PS2. 360 and pretty much any microsoft system will almost always have multi-platform games (shared by PS3 or PC) except for a few exceptions here or there, so I have 0 desire for the system.

So what am I? Hardcore or Casual? I have at least a dozen games sitting around that I haven't got the time to play because of my actual life and other games, spread out across all my systems. I have tons of games I started and stopped playing before I finished. A number of them I quit because I MISSED something early in the game, that I can't go back and get and would have to restart, and I like to get EVERYTHING, but can't be bothered to replay that stuff. I guess wanting to get everything makes me hardcore. But the fact that I don't finish games makes me casual right? So which is it?

Ask people in this thread, I'm probably casual. Own lots of games, enjoy a lot, rarely master any etc. But ask most people I know who game a lot less than I do, or even the same amount, and I'm hardcore. I'm always expected to win multiplayer games among friends. I buy more games than anyone I know, and I just have a greater general knowledge, even about games I don't play or hate.

SO, it's perspective. I personally define myself as someone who enjoys games, can pick up any game and catch on rather quick, and am constantly trying to find a game that can really grab me so I actually CAN do everything. Last one was The World Ends With You... on the so called "casual" DS, but I had over 100 hours on that game. Next will probably be Dragon Quest IX, at the rate I'm going, again on the DS. On today's home consoles, my most hours is on Monster Hunter Tri, 200+ hours, on the "casual" Wii. So really, what does that mean?

THE JACKEL

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

I won't really quote anyone but I do have to agree more with Yearg on this. Giving a designation of "Hardcore" and "causal" is pretty silly to me, and ultimately is just people trying to create some imaginary pseudo-social group that makes them feel superior to a larger group we know as gamers.

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Pft, like I need 'words' to feel superior to you fools.

I prefer to play pc games

freelancer all the way.











all night long.










every night

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Originally Posted by NeoCracker

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

I won't really quote anyone but I do have to agree more with Yearg on this. Giving a designation of "Hardcore" and "causal" is pretty silly to me, and ultimately is just people trying to create some imaginary pseudo-social group that makes them feel superior to a larger group we know as gamers.

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Pft, like I need 'words' to feel superior to you fools.

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I thought that's what Trophies/Achievements were for?

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

Before this hideous, horrible generation of video games started, and the terms hardcore and casual along with it, a hardcore gamer to me was someone heavily involved with the modding community on counter-strike, or playing Japanese imports on a modded PlayStation. A casual gamer, to me, is someone who plays popular games every now and then, a couple games online here and there, and maybe sometimes dabbles in deeper games like Bioshock or Fallout 3, but then again, they probably wouldn't touch either of those or Mass Effect if those games weren't so much like the shooters they venerate.

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So, what do you call someone who doesn't mod, but who spends 95% of their free time (ie: when not asleep or working, but including meals) playing video games? Because I don't seem to fall into either of those two groups. Maybe I'm just a gamer. Something to be proud of.

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If you read the post you would know hardcore and casual are arbitrary titles with little meaning used to define things in categories so economic phenomenon can be explained.

Furthermore, why do you want to be defined? If you really needed to, Mirage's "game enthusiast" works or just regular gamer, there's no need to add an adjective to that. Furthermore, I usually say how gaming is something I do, it's not really who I am (can you catch that reference?) i don't understand why people want it to define them. But I considered myself a pretty big gaming when hardcore and casual meant what I used to take it as.

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Originally Posted by Jackal

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Originally Posted by Northern Chaos God

The Wii.

/thread

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Monster Hunter Tri

Thread re-opened!

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Exactly. I was just at my friend's apartment with no PS3, no 360, doesn't really use his PC for games. All he has is a Wii and all he has is stuff like Smash Brothers, Okami, Resident Evil, Pokemon Rumble (ehhh), and all the new stuff he really buys are virtual console titles like Chrono Trigger stuff. Hardcore gamer.

Re-opening widened!

hey guys, about a third of you think only the 3ds will be great, a third think both will be great, and a third think that only the ngp will be good.
2 thirds of you are stupid, discuss

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

Furthermore, why do you want to be defined? If you really needed to, Mirage's "game enthusiast" works or just regular gamer, there's no need to add an adjective to that. Furthermore, I usually say how gaming is something I do, it's not really who I am (can you catch that reference?) i don't understand why people want it to define them. But I considered myself a pretty big gaming when hardcore and casual meant what I used to take it as.

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Was doing a bad job of making a point, there, really. Any classification system must be designed to handle all valid data. If you acknowledge only two gamer classifications, casual and hardcore, then every gamer out there must be a part of two groups. My description does not fall in either of the definitions given for either hardcore or casual. I have aspects of both, and some aspects that neither have. Either you have to expand your classification system to include more types (such as Mirage did with the "enthusiast" title), or you have to accept that trying to classify millions of people worldwide into two happy little demographics is just stupid.

I'm with Bolivar. This whole "hardcore" thing is bull:bou::bou::bou::bou:. It's just the new divide thing in the gaming community as a whole, kinda like how it was all about pc vs. consoles before this current generation of mediocrity.

I just think it's weird that someone could be classified as a casual gamer and spend 90% of their time (not including sleeping) playing games. That is not casual. That is potentially life-interfering :|

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Originally Posted by NorthernChaosGod

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

Short Answer: there are no casual consoles, only casual gamers :)

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The Wii.

/thread

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It's certainly the most shovel-ware friendly, but you can own only a Wii console without being grandma.

You people take me much too seriously.