Why do people like the Final Fantasy franchise?

I have no doubt that the Final Fantasy series isn't without it's charm, (My favorite female character is Selphie for God Sake!!) but honestly, as an American gamer, in a world of full western RPG's the Final Fantasy franchise as a whole is quaint by today's standards.

And it's all because when you're playing Western RPG's you're given a certain degree of freedom. The story changes depending on your actions. You almost feel like you're shaping your own destiny, whenever you make a choice and you watch the consequences and repercussions play out....But when you're playing a Final Fantasy game you have NO control over your own destiny, you don't even have any control over the main character's personality traits! You're simply watching a story play out in a very cinematic way and you're just a spectator, watching an interactive movie with little to no interactivity!

And if you're a Japanese Anime hater, you have to endure all the little poorly written, poorly acted, Anime elements to get through a self-contained story that you might not care THAT much about to begin with.

its not just Final fantasy..
there are more 'railed' story's .... loads of them

but where do u want to go with this topic?
are u saying u hate FF?

His motives are totally off topic here!

Apples and oranges, I guess. I personally like any kind of fruit. :D True, you get more freedom in WRPGs, but that doesn't mean it's better. It is definitely a positive trait. But being a spectator is not that bad a thing, in JRPGs. I like that they're story-driven, character-oriented. You could not get that engrossed if you got to create your character. Just to set an example: imagine a Xenogears where you create your own character and get to do what you want. The story would lose all point were it not for Fei and his complex existence and interactions.

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Originally Posted by JohnNintendoNerd

I have no doubt that the Final Fantasy series isn't without it's charm, (My favorite female character is Selphie for God Sake!!) but honestly, as an American gamer, in a world of full western RPG's the Final Fantasy franchise as a whole is quaint by today's standards.

And it's all because when you're playing Western RPG's you're given a certain degree of freedom. The story changes depending on your actions. You almost feel like you're shaping your own destiny, whenever you make a choice and you watch the consequences and repercussions play out....But when you're playing a Final Fantasy game you have NO control over your own destiny, you don't even have any control over the main character's personality traits! You're simply watching a story play out in a very cinematic way and you're just a spectator, watching an interactive movie with little to no interactivity!

And if you're a Japanese Anime hater, you have to endure all the little poorly written, poorly acted, Anime elements to get through a self-contained story that you might not care THAT much about to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Shaibana

its not just Final fantasy..
there are more 'railed' story's .... loads of them

but where do u want to go with this topic?
are u saying u hate FF?

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No I don't hate it. I'm just asking why do people like it, while stating that it's a series that hasn't evolved in years because you're still watching stories play out that you have no control over.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

His motives are totally off topic here!

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No my motives are not off-topic. I'm just asking why do people like playing Final Fantasy when it's not actually a game! You're just sitting there watching some weird Japanese Anime play out more often than you're actually playing a God damn game. And when you get to that point why play a Final Fantasy game at all? Why not read some Final Fantasy manga or watch an Anime series?

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Originally Posted by The White Wizard of Fynn

Apples and oranges, I guess. I personally like any kind of fruit. :D True, you get more freedom in WRPGs, but that doesn't mean it's better. It is definitely a positive trait. But being a spectator is not that bad a thing, in JRPGs. I like that they're story-driven, character-oriented. You could not get that engrossed if you got to create your character. Just to set an example: imagine a Xenogears where you create your own character and get to do what you want. The story would lose all point were it not for Fei and his complex existence and interactions.

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Is watching some Japanese pseudo Medieval or pseudo Science-Fiction story really THAT interesting and engaging when you're just seeing a long drawn out story that you can't change even if you wanted to? Do you really take THAT much pleasure in watching and playing something that's essentially a movie in video game form? Why play something that you're not controlling all that much? What's the point?

For me personaly what u say is missplaced..
U also watch movies, without any controle over it.. but u also enjoy that, right? (and dnt say No just to get in the way >.<) .... and now i read back, and i see that uve alrdy said something like that.. wel never mind, im gonna keep it in here anyway xD

and wy 'play a movie'? bcaus it stil can be verry exiting!
i personaly dont rlly like those open and free games becaus that freedom goes at cost of the story..
i like assassins creed (im not sure if u mean games like these), but sometimes im so bussy with side-missions, that i rlly have to think back when i go on with the story.
and after all its a mather of taste :P and i prever a good story!

hmm aren't most JRPGs played out like that? I mean aren't most other genres (ie. action-adventure, shooters, etc.) played out like that as well? The comparison you draw to WRPG is valid, but why can't I like both? They're just different types of RPGs, I can say games like Mass Effect/Dragon Age/Witcher all have some bland cliched stories as well. It's not like we didn't predict the ending for those games as we played. AS for this whole characters/anime style-thing, you have to remember who the target audience is. In Japan, that's the way characters are! In the PSone era up until the closing days of the PS2 era, when Japan was still the dominant in the gaming world, Japanese companies were making companies for JAPANESE PLAYERS! If the game happened to be a success in the west, that's just icing on the cake. It wasn't until the Western market start mass adoption of the consoles did Japanese companies start gearing games towards them! So it'll take some time for the whole "anime-style" thing to clear away, but one day it will (Final Fantasy XIII has already taken some leaps in that area).

Back to the topic as to why the Final Fantasy series has mass appeal, It's the opinions of the millions and millions of people sinking their money into it. Even today there is NO WRPG THAT HAS COME CLOSE TO FINAL FANTASY IN SALES! Everything from the story to the characters to the bredth of how engaging the system can be is what seperates Final Fantasy (and most other JRPGs) from the pack. I can't really answer your question in a traditional sense for an answer, but WRPGs and JRPGs (like FF series) are just different experiences and people play whatever they want to, whatever they think is more fun and engaging.

@Shaibana
No He's not talking about open world games (GTA, Assassins Creed). He's talking about games with branching stories and large overworlds where you "direct" the control of the game (mass effect, dragon age)

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Originally Posted by JohnNintendoNerd

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Originally Posted by JohnNintendoNerd

I have no doubt that the Final Fantasy series isn't without it's charm, (My favorite female character is Selphie for God Sake!!) but honestly, as an American gamer, in a world of full western RPG's the Final Fantasy franchise as a whole is quaint by today's standards.

And it's all because when you're playing Western RPG's you're given a certain degree of freedom. The story changes depending on your actions. You almost feel like you're shaping your own destiny, whenever you make a choice and you watch the consequences and repercussions play out....But when you're playing a Final Fantasy game you have NO control over your own destiny, you don't even have any control over the main character's personality traits! You're simply watching a story play out in a very cinematic way and you're just a spectator, watching an interactive movie with little to no interactivity!

And if you're a Japanese Anime hater, you have to endure all the little poorly written, poorly acted, Anime elements to get through a self-contained story that you might not care THAT much about to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Shaibana

its not just Final fantasy..
there are more 'railed' story's .... loads of them

but where do u want to go with this topic?
are u saying u hate FF?

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No I don't hate it. I'm just asking why do people like it, while stating that it's a series that hasn't evolved in years because you're still watching stories play out that you have no control over.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

His motives are totally off topic here!

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No my motives are not off-topic. I'm just asking why do people like playing Final Fantasy when it's not actually a game! You're just sitting there watching some weird Japanese Anime play out more often than you're actually playing a God damn game. And when you get to that point why play a Final Fantasy game at all? Why not read some Final Fantasy manga or watch an Anime series?

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Originally Posted by The White Wizard of Fynn

Apples and oranges, I guess. I personally like any kind of fruit. :D True, you get more freedom in WRPGs, but that doesn't mean it's better. It is definitely a positive trait. But being a spectator is not that bad a thing, in JRPGs. I like that they're story-driven, character-oriented. You could not get that engrossed if you got to create your character. Just to set an example: imagine a Xenogears where you create your own character and get to do what you want. The story would lose all point were it not for Fei and his complex existence and interactions.

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Is watching some Japanese pseudo Medieval or pseudo Science-Fiction story really THAT interesting and engaging when you're just seeing a long drawn out story that you can't change even if you wanted to? Do you really take THAT much pleasure in watching and playing something that's essentially a movie in video game form? Why play something that you're not controlling all that much? What's the point?

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Whoa, not so fast, bucko! You DO realize what you're saying is very subjective? I like the stories and find them a lot more engaging and not as cliched than most WRPGs (which range from "KILL THE FORCES OF EVIL!!!!!" to "REVEEEEENGE!!!!!" with a notable exception being Planescape: Torment). To top it off, I think you're forgetting the hours of engaging gameplay, which is actually pretty valid. Most WRPGs stick to the same formula, whereas with JRPGs you get quite a bit of variety.

It depending on your preferences, personally It is not so much that I like FF but dislike WRPGs, and more that WRPGs are a genre I just can't seem to get into yet i like Vampire the Masqurade, Anachronox and Deus EX. :p.

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Is watching some Japanese pseudo Medieval or pseudo Science-Fiction story really THAT interesting and engaging when you're just seeing a long drawn out story that you can't change even if you wanted to?

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Why would you want to change the story in order to be engaged by it ? If i am not interested in the game as whole i won't play it.

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Originally Posted by JohnNintendoNerd

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Originally Posted by Mirage

His motives are totally off topic here!

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No my motives are not off-topic. I'm just asking why do people like playing Final Fantasy when it's not actually a game! You're just sitting there watching some weird Japanese Anime play out more often than you're actually playing a God damn game. And when you get to that point why play a Final Fantasy game at all? Why not read some Final Fantasy manga or watch an Anime series?

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I think you misunderstood me. The topic of this thread is "why do people like FF", right? Shaibana was asking about what your motives to making this thread was (s/he was thinking it was because you hated it).

You liking or not liking the game isn't really the topic of this thread, so what shaibana was askin about (your motives for starting the thread) is sort of off topic :p.

WRPGs are about the only games where you make choices that shape the world and your destiny. Any action and adventure game is set in its course, and if you enjoy them, then your angle doesn't really add up when you place it to JRPGs

I admit, a lot of JRPGs don't float with me, but its not because of that. Its more how they present it, than actually what's presented

Also, aside from maybe FFI, none of the Final Fantasy games are meant to contain an avatar of the player. They all have their characters, and you're playing out their stories. Much like you also do in Metal Gear Solid, Resident Evil, God of War, and many (or almost any) other high-profile series

The Japanese may have stagnated, leaning too hard on cheese and cliche, but that's the problem. Its the presentation, not the formula. Shaping the world or someone's destiny isn't required to feel entertained or engaged. Gameplay, characterization, character growth, and quality of story are the real driving forces

I've never once played a "Western RPG" that I could get into.

The whole reason I play RPGs is for the story-driven aspect of it, so I guess that explains it. "Western RPGs" skimp on the story in favor of letting you run around and do arbitrary quests and so you can have a character you customized with no personality and virtually no backstory. Or from what I've played it's this way. This is coming from someone who can't stand anime for the most part too; I'd much rather play a Final Fantasy game than, say, an Elder Scrolls game.

Of course, with only a couple of exceptions, I really don't like any JRPGs besides the FF games either, because they're so much like anime. I really can't stand the ones that make everything look like anime (big eyed cell shaded crap like Eternal Sonata, for example).

I just think it's because the FF games are well done. The soundtracks are wonderful, the visuals are pleasing, the battle systems rarely grow stale, and I'm always intrigued as to what's going to happen next in the story (on the first playthrough at least). All this "you can't possibly care about a story in a Japanese game" crap really doesn't make sense to me.

To each their own; I love the FF franchise.

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Originally Posted by DMKA

I've never once played a "Western RPG" that I could get into.

The whole reason I play RPGs is for the story-driven aspect of it, so I guess that explains it. "Western RPGs" skimp on the story in favor of letting you run around and do arbitrary quests and so you can have a character you customized with no personality and virtually no backstory. Or from what I've played it's this way. This is coming from someone who can't stand anime for the most part too; I'd much rather play a Final Fantasy game than, say, an Elder Scrolls game.

Of course, with only a couple of exceptions, I really don't like any JRPGs besides the FF games either, because they're so much like anime. I really can't stand the ones that make everything look like anime (big eyed cell shaded crap like Eternal Sonata, for example).

I just think it's because the FF games are well done. The soundtracks are wonderful, the visuals are pleasing, the battle systems rarely grow stale, and I'm always intrigued as to what's going to happen next in the story (on the first playthrough at least). All this "you can't possibly care about a story in a Japanese game" crap really doesn't make sense to me.

To each their own; I love the FF franchise.

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Well you summed my opinions up perfectly.

I like the FF series mainly because it was the the first RPG I ever played. A favored memory of mine was 2001 Easter when I first played a FF game, I became hopelesly addicted to FF9 in the space of an hour.

Other than FF, Shadow hearts and Dragon age then rpg's don't really do it for me. FF has a great way of bringing the charecters to life wether through text or now with voice acting, it is a great franchise and thats why I like it.

As most people have said, it's the story driven aspect that we like.

I could never play Oblivion, because the game is entirely sidequests. The main story is only like 5% of the actual game. In a JRPG, you may not be in complete control of your character, but there are no games, NONE, that have stories to the grand scale that JRPG's have. And that is honestly why it does so well. Plus, even if it is just a "movie" I spend entire days watching movies or TV shows (doing that today in fact). So what's wrong with a "movie" that only goes forward if I control something and accomplish it. In fact that just makes it even more enjoyable. Uncharted 2 was one of the most "movie" games I've ever played, yet people praised it for being amazing. The gameplay aspect wasn't especially appealing to me, but I did enjoy the story, so I finished it. Some people loved the gameplay, and for me when it comes to Final Fantasy, I almost always enjoy the gameplay aspects of it(as well as the story). The outfitting of my party and the strategy involved in winning the truly difficult and major battles. FF13 I enjoyed the gameplay, but didn't get into the story. While say, FFIV for me was all about the story, and the gameplay was decidedly boring for me(yet I've played through it at least 5 times).

All and all, it's that movie aspect of it, with the grand scale of story, that we actually enjoy.

THE JACKEL

Final Fantasy XI and XIV are just stories???

I like Final Fantasy because it hit spot on all the stuff I would like to do in a game. Sure there is a long story but I even enjoy that cause they are great in my opinion. Game play is simple and if you choice once you've unlocked everything up to the final boss, there is a lot of side quests and stuff you can do in the game. These side quests arn't big story quests and sometimes they provide no story at all. Gold Saucer and Triple Triad are two things in games that keep me entertained for hours. What keeps me buying the games is my need to see. I like to know what all they added or took away from my original final fantasy. Sometimes I like it sometimes I don't, but I keep playing them cause I'm familiar with them and have an easier time playing then a WRPG. Some of the greatest games that came out wern't difficult to play at all. It was the choices you made and the out come those choices made on the game. You maybe blinded by the storyline and story scenes but when your in battle you can win or lose. Its up to you and you DO have control over it. Unlike other games FF can prove that making stories can make a game. Some people play for story while some play for battles.

The thing is, I don't want to be in charge of my own destiny all the time. In fact, I would say I almost have a beef with western RPGs that use the choose-your-own-adventure stuff as a mechanic. It almost invariably leads to a watered-down story that - even if the game is otherwise well-written - has to take into account all of the player's actions. Choose-your-own adventures just aren't very meaningful stories. They can be neat or clever in the way the writer ties everything together (Dragon Age: Origins), but they are rarely very interesting beyond that gimmick. WRPGs have the gameplay going for them, which is all they need.

But JRPGs differ in such a way as to offer a more structured experience - something a lot of people like, me included. I want to travel through an actual story and world whose elements have been crafted carefully. That's what's fun about a JRPG; there's just enough room for running around and customization, but there's also always a goal or path to follow, where the player can take on all of the challenges set out by the developer. It is a completely different type of experience than the one a WRPG generally offers. I like running through Cyrodiil because it's a wonderfully realized fantasy world that lets you just play and explore, and I like being led through Midgar because it's just such an imaginative place that stands out precisely because of the way it is carefully presented to the player.

What's funny when thinking about JRPGs now is how they look in comparison to the rest of the genres out there. Back in the heyday (SNES/PS1 era), JRPGs were so much different than any other genre of game (as far as consoles go, at least). They were bigger, required more thought and consideration, and were generally a lot more "immersive" than anything else. Nowadays, the JRPG doesn't do those things well anymore, and a lot of other genres have added their own unique touch to what made the JRPG so compelling originally. Compared to the kinds of more open world games that are popular today, the JRPG resembles some pretty old school design, like a thinking man's arcade game or something.

All this said, I rarely play JRPGs anymore. The advent of the fully-voiced cutscene took care of that hobby. It's the only blemish I can hold against my otherwise beloved PS2.

Also, DMKA: Great post. Our tastes differ greatly, but I think I agree with you.

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Originally Posted by Vyk

I admit, a lot of JRPGs don't float with me, but its not because of that. Its more how they present it, than actually what's presented

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The Japanese may have stagnated, leaning too hard on cheese and cliche, but that's the problem. Its the presentation, not the formula. Shaping the world or someone's destiny isn't required to feel entertained or engaged. Gameplay, characterization, character growth, and quality of story are the real driving forces

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I agree with this, too. Tying it back to the thread topic: Of all JRPG series, I can only think of Final Fantasy that, for so long, understood this about presentation. This is why I'd always look forward to main-series FF games more than anything else. The basic formula was always there, but you just never knew how it would manifest itself through each entry. It might not have always been good, but I think it was always interesting. In fact a lot of Square games from way back were good like this.

Fallout is a game like that, right?
ive heard it had loads of possible ends

It's got a few.

Which fallout game is it you're referring to anyway?

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Originally Posted by sora_lion_heart

Final Fantasy XI and XIV are just stories???

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FF11 and FF14 have more or less completely linear story lines, yes.

In the case of FF11 there is however more than one storyline. Initially, the game had 3 storylines, one per nation, and these all merged into the same storyline at the end where you kill the last storyline boss.

The first expansion (Rise of the Zilart) split these 3 nation storylines into three separate lines and continued them, however. This expansion pack also added a new storyline which didn't affect the other three, and each expansion afterwards has done so too, all without interfering with previous stories.

The order in which you can start and finish these storylines is however mostly up to you. Certain quests and missions are dependent on the progress of some of the other ones, but this isn't common.

fallout 3