Okay, does everyone dislike Vaan?
Seriously, who doesn't have a problem with Vaan? XD
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Okay, does everyone dislike Vaan?
Seriously, who doesn't have a problem with Vaan? XD
VaanQuote:
Originally Posted by Tuhkasieni
sad :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypoallergenic CactuarVaanQuote:
Originally Posted by Tuhkasieni
Penelo also. Battle wise I found Fran to be more problematic though.
Penelo is in denial, she grew up with a Bangaa and so naturally became attracted to the only other human she had 24/7 contact with, she really hates Vaan van douschenburg
Vaan has some issues, but I think his biggest drawback is the fact he is irrelevant to the plot. Poor kid.
I like him :) He seems nice. I bet he's a swell guy.
Enough said :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Hypoallergenic Cactuar
I don't mind Vaan.
To me, his main role seems to be as a storytelling device: he's young and rather naive, so he doesn't know a whole lot about Ivalice. By explaining its history and geography to Vaan, the other characters are actually explaining it to us. Much like in The Lord of the Rings, when the heroes arive at a new town, ruin or grassy knoll and Legolas decides to regale them with over 9000 poems detailing that location's origins and culture.
Vaan's other big purpose is to be a playable incarnation of an 'average person' caught up in Dalmasca's conflict. With the exception of Penelo, the other main characters are all rather extraordinary in their own right: Ashe is the fallen princess, Basch the condemned 'traitor', Baltheir the son of Archadia's mad genius and a former Judge. Vaan, though, is a lot more down-to-earth: a young Dalmascan, not a solider but still a victim of war, losing his only brother and his nation's freedom. As he starts to expand his horizons and realise his dreams over the course of the game, Dalmasca does too. In that way, Vaan allows us to see first-hand a nation's growth as well as a man's.
So, it's fair to say that he isn't too crucial to the plot - but he contributes to the plot and the storytelling simply by being caught up and carried along in events. He has a legitimate motivation for joining the fight, and undergoes genuine growth in the process.
I lol'd, I lol'd hardQuote:
Originally Posted by Hypoallergenic Cactuar
That's actually a really interesting way to look at his character, thanks for that insight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big D
For the record, I do like Vaan.
I understood Vaan's role as the average kid caught up in this big adventure. It probably works better in a novel, but in a game I prefer the 'main character' to have some more relevance to what's going on around him. Whenever I play games there is always a naive kid getting mixed up in a big adventure in a grand world. Myself! I don't need there to be two of me.
Also he needs to put on a shirt.
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__.../FFTA2Vaan.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Del Murder
It's nice to hear different opinions. There seem to be so many who dislikes him. Personally I don't really have an opinion about Vaan, I think he's okay, but I never use him in battle. But I think he kind of follows the main party because he wants to be a skypirate just like Balthier.
he looks to much like marsche without a shirt
I like Vaan, i saw him as a blank canvas. I made him extremly diverse, making him my trump card that could fight in all areas. Which is how he is shown on dissidia. While the other stuck with their original weapon class.
At the very least, you can see why he wanted to continue to fight with the others. Penelo on the other hand, was thrown into this massive event and only stuck around because of Vaan. She is way more pointless.
I dont understand how Vaan could see the prince of dalmasca's spirit though. I kinda just thought that the writers were trying to intergrate into the story more.
Vaan is actually seeing his own brother. Notice how he no longer sees him after Jahara when he tells Ashe he's done running from his problems!Quote:
Originally Posted by *Devore*
Yeah, I think the Occuria wanted to have Vaan as a failsafe. Turns out he did better than Ashe...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessweeee♪Vaan is actually seeing his own brother. Notice how he no longer sees him after Jahara when he tells Ashe he's done running from his problems!Quote:
Originally Posted by *Devore*
Vaan looks even more like a child in Final Fantasy Tactics A2 than he did in the original game. As I grow older, I find it much harder to relate with childish protagonists.
Thats pretty amazingQuote:
Originally Posted by Hypoallergenic Cactuar
anyway I just ignored Vaan throughout the story and when he did talk, I wanted him to shut up.
I didn't mind Vaan all that much, especially since whenever he did get annoying, the game felt the same way and made it known. Really, you're party is mean to him, it's not like Yuffie, Selphie, Hope, or Rikku's shenanigans where they would say or do something stupid and you party just smiled while they shook their had and put their arms on their waist and just said "Oh you...";)
When Vaan pulled :bou::bou::bou::bou: it was literally your party either trying to ignore him existing or Ashe warning him that's he's going back into the box. I can appreciate that.
My favorites are when he goes on his I'M CAPTAIN BASCH mission and Balthier's like "well okay you go do that" and when he asks Fran how old he is and everyone just gives him the :erm: face.
I guess the most redeeming factor of FF8 is that Squall face palms at his party all the time for doing stupid things. Which is brilliance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Oh Hope you and your silly murder plots.
The expectation to be the main character and looking like Bambi doesn't do him any favors. If they had kept Basch in the lead (so far as this game can have one), I feel like people wouldn't mind him. To me he never did anything particularly annoying. He hardly did anything at all, which seems to be the major problem.
Kids these days!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessweeee♪
I was kind of indifferent to Vaan. He just sort of... existed. After Tidus I'd become immune to idiocy so I just sort of ignored him. (For the record, I like Tidus, but he really was kind of a dumbass.)
lol... xDdQuote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Acula
Yes, yes, yes. Apart from the part where you said you like Tidus. I didn't. I couldn't stand him. I didn't like Vaan, nor did I really dislike him. I thought he had many annoying moments, but every time I compare him to Tidus, Vaan turns out to be an amazing character.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Acula
-looks back at the laughing scene with yuna&tidus- Well I have to agree with you there. The second time (First time beaten) I played X I put Yuna and Tidus in a "who is stupider/more annoying" competition. It was close for most of the game but Tidus came out on top. Tidus... you will always have a soft spot for being a useful character who I wanted to punch in the face.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoBYes, yes, yes. Apart from the part where you said you like Tidus. I didn't. I couldn't stand him. I didn't like Vaan, nor did I really dislike him. I thought he had many annoying moments, but every time I compare him to Tidus, Vaan turns out to be an amazing character.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Acula
Vaan I more or less forgot about most of the time, he doesn't really do much at all.
I think I'm one of few who hasn't got a problem with Vaan! I hear nothing but hate when it comes to Vaan. For some reason, he's been consistently good in battle and never out of my main party, I can tolerate him on and off battlefield. I actually found him quite pleasant! I liked the fact he wasn't the main character in the end (FFXII in my mind is truly Ashe's story), he didn't really try and hog the spotlight and go all whiny and angsty. To be honest, I always chuckled at Vaan's stupidity: i.e. asking Fran her age, NAMING names ("Right Basch?" [Basch sighs exasperated]) when Balthier said not to name names in Bhujerba... XD
Each to their own when it comes to character preferences, but I actually like Vaan!
Of course when Gabranth came into the picture with his helmet off, I did completely ignore Vaan (and the rest of the party) :P
I agree that Vaan has a role in the story and that role has been highlighted by previous posters. Unfortunately FFXII suffers from cosmically bad pacing. Characters fall in and out of relevance quite frequently and more often thannot Vaan is he peon in the background.
This does not make him much of a respectable character according to most people and is a big reason why people say he is "tacked on" and unnecessary.
I really didn't mind him at all, but penelo.......:shoot:
I believe they tossed Penelo into the mix so they could demonstrate that it was possible for a character to be more pointless than Vaan. I'm just kidding, I like Vaan.So, you want to play a game like Eternal Ring or some other equivalent where the main character is expected to already know what the hell is going on around him and so he's thrust into the middle of the plot without a single helping hand or explanation. Yeah, you know? 'Cause it's fun to be dragged into something you know nothing about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Murder
It's easy to wish to be in the role of a character who is "better" than you are in reality, but when you're actually playing as that character, don't you start to feel that your life has no meaning because you'll never live up to the awesomeness of this character. At least with Vaan, a street urchin with dreams of becoming a pirate, you can take his journey with him and learn that you can accomplish great things too. Not because you're already in the shoes of some dousch whose "been there and done that", but because that's the power of ambition.
You say Vaan's role is better suited to a novel, well I call bullsh and claim the opposite. I wouldn't want some dorky kid being the main character of my novel. That makes absolutely no sense.
Hoo-ahh! With a passion!
But I agree, no matter how hot it is in Dalmasca, Vaan needed a shirt. Penelo needed to lose those pigtails, they looked awkward instead of cute.
I understand why his character was created and what role he was meant to play. Unfortunately, what makes Vaan so unlikeable is that fact that he is just so poorly written(and designed). Personally, I like the rest of the cast. I like the subtle nuances of their personalities and their lengthy dialogues. Their subtle personas grew on me throughout the game, and by the ending credits I had a good idea of what sort of people these characters were. That is, all except Vaan and Penelo.
I like Penelo, I like her character design, and I liked using her in battle. What little we did see of her I liked, but the writers just didn't do anything with her. She was really only there to validate Vaan's character. The trouble is, Vaan doesn't have a character! He was written as a stereotypical, obnoxious young street kid who is supposed to provide comedy to an otherwise serious story(and I admit, sometimes I did laugh at Vaan, but never with him...). What a chance the writers missed with both of these characters! They could have had Vaan mature considerably along the way, transforming himself into a mature young man opposed to staying that same whiny pirate wanna-be. And Penelo! Granted, I find her character(though hardly explored) better developed than Vaan's, but really---she hardly contributed to anything! *sigh* I love this game, but these two characters always get me.
So no, I don't hate Vaan. I didn't ignore using him in battle because his stats are great and he was useful in some of the larger boss battles. But near the end of the game, he really was just a drag on the plot when he should have been helping to propel it. I've done many a Squall facepalm when it comes to him, let me tell you.
This is actually what I've been saying all along, partially. I've always interpreted Vaan as being transformed into the main character so the actual player could relate to him more than, say, Basch - he's just a young nobody wrapped up in the political warfare of Ivalice's huge world. Through his interaction with some of the characters more pivotal to the ongoing plot, he's able to partake an epic adventure and save a subjected kingdom.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big D
basch = balthier > reks > vaan > vosseler
He just doesn't belong. He hurts the story more than helps it, and has no real purpose. If he was written better and was made to have a true impact on the overall story then it would be fine, but he doesn't. The story works just as well if he was completely left off from the start. I try to ignore him and Penelope whenever playing this game.
Old post... but w/eQuote:
Originally Posted by Topaz Flare
In her defense, at least she has cool attack animations :|
Vaan's not a bad guy, he's just not the protagonist. Ashe, Balthier, Basch, and Fran could've been the party and the game would've been fine.
Vaan makes an excellent tank. And I quite like him, though he needs to grow some manhair. As has been said before, he's just this kid who finds himself trapped in a situation he has nodding sodding clue about. He experiences this new world with its intrigue and tragedy as we do, but just takes it in his naive and optimistic stride. Sure, he's a bit of a pillock, but everyone is trying to smurfing kill him even though he didn't do anything directly wrong! If I were in this game, I'd be in the same position as Vaan, except I'd be sitting in the corner soiling my kegs.
I think the reason we love Balthier, Fran and Basch so much (and anyone who doesn't can go choke on a Bomb) is that they're so bloody amazing. If the main character was Basch or someone good like that, then we wouldn't have any relation because none of us are that cool.
To sum up, he's not the coolest character or the most story-important, but that's the whole point. I like him.
I didn't have a problem, either, and Big D put it perfectly... I mean we've all played tons of RPGs like this, I don't see why it was such a big deal. He's a kid with humble beginnings who saves the world. How is he irrelevant?
I also like the fact that FFXII is a "coming of age" story for him. As Vaan sees the world, his perspective broadens. And that's beautiful.
The only problem I have with Vaan is his abs.
He does have a weird chest. All these characters need to put a jumper on, really.
Except Fran, she's way overdressed.
Vaan is certainly not the worst leading man in the series.
I also find it quite ridiculous when games/movies/books show a character's "growth" in the course of a few weeks' adventuring. It's just silly when a young immature selfish boy becomes an altruistic courageous magnanimous hero overnight.
Well, considering how big of an experience they get, it makes a bit of sense.
yeah it doesn't seem like that short of a time to me :confused:
yeah, I think I spent years of the characters lives just grinding. I would think that going on a genocide of wolves and giants would make a man out of even vaan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
^ Haha, yeah, actually it turns out Final Fantasy XII takes place from years 18-27 of his life lol...
Huh.... go figure
Would've been cool if the other characters aged throughout the story, but I guess that's asking too much.
I respect the character for reason of the first paragraph. I'd rather see the story through him than through Basch or Ashe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delicious Murder
However, here I must disagree. Vaan's most important asset is his eye-candy value.Quote:
Also he needs to put on a shirt.
I hate Vaan. I hate Penelo. I hate Tidus. I hate Yuna.
I love Squall. I love Cloud. Balthier and Basch were pretty damn cool. I'm alright with Zidane, even. I love Quistis. I LOVE Lulu. I love Fran. I kinda liked Rikku, but not much. Yuffie was cool. Aerith and Tifa were alright. Rinoa wasn't great, and neither was Selphie. Ashe was easily tolerable, Wakka was barely tolerable, and all of XIII's characters were unoriginal and boring - no matter how different they were.
But if I had to go back and change any of them, I wouldn't. It's the diversity that makes the games interesting. You wouldn't watch the Superfriends if it was just a bunch Supermans, would you? And yes, it's Supermans. It's a proper noun, so it isn't Supermen.
And no, I'm not just saying that Shlup will get all pissy about it. ^.^
I love Vann because I get to be one of the most annoying characters of all time. And by that I mean annoying to the populace in the game. I get to go around town shouting idiotic propaganda! Awesome!
lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Elskidor
I'll explain this for anyone else who has a deluded view
Early in the game, Ashe makes a speach about how she will cut down the enemies of Dalmasca. It's no secret that she wants revenge on the empire, who took away her kingdom and who were responsible for the deaths of both her father and her husband. And yet, when she is faced with the Sun Cryst, she chooses to destroy it (Quote - "I will destroy the Sun Cryst") leaving herself with no means to defend her kingdom and powerless to stop the empire. Did anyone bother to think why?
Ashe has key scenes with many of the main cast and her decision is influenced by them.
A scene outside Golmore shows how Basch helps Ashe to bear the shame of failing to protect a kingdom. Basch, who has failed to protect two kingdoms helps her to understand that there is nothing to gain from war and destruction, and that sparing just one person from war would have him bear any shame.
Her key scene with Balthier on the Phon Coast helps her to understand how power corrupts. Balthier watched it happen to his father and warns her not to follow in his fathers footsteps.
Penelo shows Ashe that the empire and dalmasca can co-exist peacefully, through her relationship with Larsa. They need not be enemies.
Poor Fran's influence is reserved for Balthier. She aids him in confronting his past by confronting her own (Quote- "I'm doing this as much for you as i am for me)
Vaan helps Ashe to overcome her need for revenge by overcoming his own need for revenge. His outburst when he see's Basch shows how angry toward the empire he is, however, when confronted by his brothers true killer, Vaan refuses to take his revenge, saying that it won't change anything and won't bring him back.
Every character has an influence on the decision she will make. The key scene in the game is when Ashe is stood in front of the Sun Cryst, holding 1 sword able to destroy it and another sword able to take it's power. The events that take place after she aquires the dawn shard up until finding the sun cryst are all important and affect that decision.
Vaan haters, play the game again, watch it and understand it.
I'm not too fond of him, but he was a massive improvement over Tidus and isn't anywhere near as bad as hope.
I love you, Shin.
What I hear is you like the sullen, quiet, all-too-serious, easily irritated, loners and despise characters with a noticeable sense of humor, short attention span, obsessive behavior, and/or a cheerful disposition of any kind. I haven't played 13 so I can't react, but I'm surprised to see you thought Yuffie was cool. I found her to be a brat who reminded me a bit too much of some of my younger kin. Her personality seems to evolved in later titles, but as for PS game, she was just annoying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigmafuzz
I don't believe in proper nouns being an acception to proper plural distinction. Like the Hobbit on LotR who takes offense to his family name being pronounced Proudfoots (he yells "Proudfeet!" in response), I think names ending in -man should be changed to -men when referring to more than one, such as a family. For example, if Doc Ock had a clone he rampaged around with, we should refer to them as the Doctors Octopi.Quote:
yes, it's Supermans. It's a proper noun, so it isn't Supermen.
This was basically what I thought. Sure beats having a bloody datalog.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big D
Raise your hand if you think Reks was a better character than Vaan!
http://unoriginalobservations.files....sing-hands.jpg
Well that pretty much settles it.
Even if Reks's outfit was lame as well, it wasn't as bad as Vaan.
Unfortunately, without Reks's death, Vaan wouldn't have had any story at all.
The one thing I always wonder is... why do soldiers think it's a good idea to expose their stomach, isn't that... I don't know, a bad idea?
Probably budget issues. You've seen how little Gil some of them drop.
I don't think that the time spent with Reks is enough for the average player to care about that particular story point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack's Crotch
Most of the party is loosely tied together, if at all. One only needs to look to Penelo and Fran to see that individual character motivation wasn't a driving force in the character design for this game.
It kind of stinks you know. XII had great customization, gameplay, and a good idea of a story, but very little character development and a perhaps too open environment for the expected audience, while xiii had almost nothing but character development and a story that quickly got lost in the catalog and super linear repetitive gameplay.
"I'm Captain Basch! Don't listen to Ondore's lies!"Quote:
Originally Posted by edczxcvbnm
That was a fun part of the game. Vaan isn't so bad. Most games have this sort of character to take away from the seriousness of the storyline.
If you could combine the two games, you would likely have much more of an unforgettable experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack's Crotch
I think that the earlier games captured that feeling with players quite well. It would be hard to do it in today's landscape. I mean, sometimes I feel like certain aspects of a title are great, but I find myself saying things like, "Well, if only this game had the [insert trait here] of the last game," or something similar if that makes sense.
I like Vaan.
He's fine in a way that, compared to other protagonists of FF series, he doesn't stand as much. Okay, Squall's all cool with gunblade, Zidane is very optimistic with everything. Cloud, well. He's emo but he fights for what he protects. Tidus, he's a blitzball star! But when it comes to Vaan, it seems to me that he's designed not to be "imba". He's just somewhat normal who aspires to be a Sky Pirate, but during that his fate intertwines with the main story's plot.
One thing that bugs me in Ivalice is that, every Hume "male" can go out topless. Gay guys hmm.
Ugh I know, get rid of those ugly abs!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Miriel
I may stand mostly alone here, but I felt the characters in XIII were horrid. To me, they were some of the worst the series has ever seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoogleIf you could combine the two games, you would likely have much more of an unforgettable experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack's Crotch
I think that the earlier games captured that feeling with players quite well. It would be hard to do it in today's landscape. I mean, sometimes I feel like certain aspects of a title are great, but I find myself saying things like, "Well, if only this game had the [insert trait here] of the last game," or something similar if that makes sense.