Final Fantasy vs. Other Square RPGs

As i begin to do a replay of Xenogears for the first time in a while I'm reminded how I used to visit many different forums years ago and I encountered quite a bit of resentment towards the FF franchise.
"Only noobs think Final Fantasy is the best RPG out there. There are tons better." Basically fans of other games pissing and moaning about their games not being as famous or popular.

Still, I can't help but see where they're coming from. Xenogears is better than any FF game I've ever played.

So yeah, the point of this topic. How would you rank your favorite Final Fantasy titles when compared to other Square RPGs like Xenogears or the Chrono games or whatever else?

Well, obviously this is a matter of opinion, since I for one don't think Xenogears is better. Fighting in the gears got boring quickly and the exposition near the end since apparently they ran out of time/money/disc space turned me off.

I think the only other RPG that comes close to FF is Chrono Trigger. That game is just magnificent. It really has no faults at all. Great story, great characters, fun battles, plenty of extras. Chrono Cross is good too but it doesn't hold a candle to FF.

Same with the DQ series. Only DQVIII for me comes close to rivaling the FF games, probably because it is the most similar to FF than any of the other games (which turned off a lot of DQ fans I've noticed).

KH is a great series of games but it doesn't really compare well to FF since the gameplay is a lot different. Same with Secret of Mana, another great Square game. I love those series but they still don't beat FF.

For me the FF series trumps all others. Some games like CT are better than just about all of the FF entries, but as a whole I think FF has no contest.

If I were to take my top 5 FF titles and my top 5 RPGs FF would win hands down. Obviously this would change with your personal preferences, but I don't think FF came to dominate the JRPG world by putting out grossly inferior products.

Not that people hating something because it is popular is an undocumented effect.

Quote:

---

Basically fans of other games pissing and moaning about their games not being as famous or popular.

---

Good quote, which has relevance far past the issue at hand.

-cuddles chrono trigger-
To be honest I haven't really played any other square rpg's such as DQ or Xenogears. Next time I can though I'll see if I can pick em up.

I'm actually one of those guys who likes many of Squares non-FF games more than the FF series. Chrono Trigger and Xenogears are easily two of my favorite RPGs of all time and I can't say any of the FFs ever came as close to them for me personally. Hell, I feel the majority of Squares non-FF and non-numbered FF games during the PS1 era trumped the FF series. I'll take another Front Mission 3, Parasite Eve, Chrono Cross, Xenogears, FF T, Brave Fencer Musashi, and Vagrant Story over VII-IX any day of the week.

This is probably why I'm not happy with SE, cause FF is their strongest brand right now, with very few non-FF related titles on the side that I care for. KH and DQ are nice, but I don't feel they are as good as the list I gave above, and that's not even including some of the non-Square greats like BoF and Suikoden. Course this is just my opinion, so what do I know... :p

I haven't had a whole lot of experience with non-FF RPGs from SE but my interaction has rarely been terrible. They can do good things with other projects, it's somewhat disappointing that they don't devote as much time and effort into these non-FF titles.

When was it terrible?

Unlimited Saga?

He was banned, so I guess we'll never know.

Unlimited Saga, World of Mana compilation, Infinite Undiscovery, The Bouncer, The Last Remnant...

Square has a number of games that are probably better than most of the FF games, but I don't have memories fonder than those I got from FFs IV-IX. Some may not have been as downright good as the Chronos, the Seiken Densetsus, or Vagrant Story, but I never looked more forward to another game more than FF. I was always fascinated with where the series would be going next while still retaining that morsel of similarity that linked all the games together.

Unfortunately, Square went the route of X and on. But back before that it was still interesting!

Infinite Undiscovery is fun. :p

Chrono trigger and Cross are love. :kaoclove:

Seiken Densetsu 2 and 3 are Wonderful. :rabite:

No Legend of Mana? :rabite:

I remember back in the day a lot of people said Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars was a legitimately great RPG and one of the best on the SNES. (which is saying something)

Never played it myself and the fanfare seems to have died down.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Del Murder

When was it terrible?

---

I said rarely terrible. Infinite Undiscovery was pretty fun. Nowhere near perfect (which is why my interactions are rarely terrible; it's my antonym to ALWAYS MARVELLOUS), but I think a step in the right direction.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

No Legend of Mana? :rabite:

---

I haven't actually gotten a chance to play it yet :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jiro

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Del Murder

When was it terrible?

---

I said rarely terrible. Infinite Undiscovery was pretty fun. Nowhere near perfect (which is why my interactions are rarely terrible; it's my antonym to ALWAYS MARVELLOUS), but I think a step in the right direction.

---

Well, rarely implies that terribleness happened at some point, so I was just wondering when.

I'm actually about to start Xenogears for the first time in the coming days, so I really can't wait to see how this game stacks up.

I like their non-FF RPGs, but I wouldn't say that one is categorically better than the other. Chrono Trigger was great, and certainly put the SNES FFs to shame for me, but it's obvious how Square took what they learned on that and implemented it into the PlayStation FFs. I don't think CT is better than VII, VIII and IX. Parasite Eve was great, but it was different and I can't say it was better.

I love DQ for some of the same reasons as FF and I put the SNES ones I've played on about the same level as FF. The Director of FFIV said it in a PlayStation Blog interview lately, but there's always going to be a place for classic RPGs and story/character focused RPGs. That's the divide I see between FF and DQ,, although Tokita said that FFIV began how FF would combine the two. I just think DQ doesn't get enough credit, mostly because it's style is so classic, people misonstrue it with lack of innovation.

Also, Tactics Ogre is insane, and even though it's better written and arguably the battle system is more thought out, there's a lot of things FF does that it doesn't bother to do.

So it depends, but I'm very excited to play Xenogears.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bolivar

I like their non-FF RPGs, but I wouldn't say that one is categorically better than the other. Chrono Trigger was great, and certainly put the SNES FFs to shame for me, but it's obvious how Square took what they learned on that and implemented it into the PlayStation FFs. I don't think CT is better than VII, VIII and IX.

---

This is a very unusual opinion. I don't agree or disagree with you, necessarily (I get completely different things from each those games). I'm just curious - how do you think the PS1 FF trilogy is better than CT, and exactly what do you see Square having implemented into them from CT? Also, what's your opinion on Chrono Cross?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flying Arrow

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bolivar

I like their non-FF RPGs, but I wouldn't say that one is categorically better than the other. Chrono Trigger was great, and certainly put the SNES FFs to shame for me, but it's obvious how Square took what they learned on that and implemented it into the PlayStation FFs. I don't think CT is better than VII, VIII and IX.

---

This is a very unusual opinion. I don't agree or disagree with you, necessarily (I get completely different things from each those games). I'm just curious - how do you think the PS1 FF trilogy is better than CT, and exactly what do you see Square having implemented into them from CT? Also, what's your opinion on Chrono Cross?

---

The biggest change going from the Nintendo FF titles to the PlayStation titles, to me, was changing the field screen from overhead, four directions, to allowing the characters to move in nearly any direction, with the camera in any position the director wanted. This was the breakthrough in Chrono Trigger I feel set the tone for the future of Final Fantasy.

The example off the top of my head is early on where Chrono escapes the prison and fights that dragon tank on a bridge, which he walks on from left to right. When I beat Chrono Trigger, I played FFVI again, and the game was almost ruined for me because it seemed so static and limited compared to Chrono Trigger. I know FFVI tried to do similar things, most notably Celes standing on the balcony during the opera scene, but other than that, it was just hard to play VI.

I also think the more manga/anime style came from CT (esp. b/c Akira Toriyama did the art), and the flashier battles with all kinds of abilities being used (which the frequently used Limit Breaks seemed to fill in for) heavily influenced FFVII IMO. You also have to figure that the key people on FFVII, Kitase, Nomura, etc. were all apart of the Chrono Trigger experiment and I'm sure it affected their game design philosophies tremendously.

The reason I think the PSOne games are better is... complicated. One, I think the added memory of a CD helped tremendously (just remembered CT comically referred to how little memory it had to use (isn't it amazing what you can do with (x)mb???)). Discs allowed for FMV, which completed the last thing they needed to have those "i can't believe that just happened!" set pieces that modern gaming is so entrhalled with; the fact that they had seamless transitions between cutscenes and gameplay made this insanely intertwined interactive experience; the games were longer; they had more and greater detailed backgrounds; the soundtracks had better sound quality. There are creative things I think are better, I think Chrono Trigger kept just one too many outdated plot and character vestiges of classic RPGs that the following FF titles tried to destroy. It's kind of another topic, but overall when i look at the total final product of each game, I like the PSOne games a lot better.


I've never played Chrono Cross. I want to, though!

I wish Square Enix would challenge itself more by trying to do different things like they did in the PS1 days. Square Enix seems to only want to play it safe with Final Fantasy. I love Final Fantasy, but it isn't the only thing in existence! There are other great titles like Xenogears, Chrono Trigger, etc. that took the chance to bring people original, captivating stories. I'd like to see different series from Square Enix like in the Playstation days.

I also think they could take more chances with storytelling within the Final Fantasy franchise itself.

Seshiri: If you own a DS you should try The world Ends With You. It's unlike anything else I've ever played!

I don't really deviate from Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts much when it comes to Square. My favorite is probably Threads of Fate. I've heard nice thing about The Last Remnant and Infinite Undiscovery, but I haven't even looked into them.

In my opinion the Chrono games are the greatest things Square (+Enix) has produced. The PS1 Final Fantasies never blew me away; in fact I really only hold IV and X in any sort of high esteem, but still inferior to my beloved Chronos.

I honestly think Sakaguchi's Mistwalker studios will probably outshine the FF series soon with some of their games.

Well, when I originally played VII back in 1997, I would've said it was the best RPG in the universe and pwns all other experiences. That's before I knew what pwn meant and before I ever played any other RPG.

Today, I'll readily admit FF titles are hardly the pinnacle of RPGs. There's just so much "unfinished"-ness, there's always something about one of the installments that will leave feeling it could have been a bit better and actually has been done better by another RPG. Final Fantasy's boon is that it tries to diversify with its mechanics. Throughout the span of its series, its added different experiences like memorizing phrases during conversation, using the environment during combat, player-interaction during combat, and they've had plenty of fun mini-games, some either being easy or cheesy.
You know, I think that if they release a third Dissidia, they should introduce a third Deity who can alter reality as an explanation for why it should be accepted as canon despite it's utter fan-service-laden parodyish ridiculosity.
My point being... I don't remember.
Spent.

Some believe ff is the best. Personally iv not played anything better... apart from vagrant story (Which is a game that was probably too advanced for its time)

After playing one ff it can get boring. FF battles and leveling up just bore me. Im in it for the story.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Del Murder

Only DQVIII for me comes close to rivaling the FF games, probably because it is the most similar to FF than any of the other games (which turned off a lot of DQ fans I've noticed).

---

Wait, how is DQVIII any more like FF than any of the other DQ games? The only difference between DQVIII and other DQs would be that it uses big 3D models third-person perspective instead of a more classic overhead perspective. THAT is what turned a lot of DQ fans off. Is that FF? No, that's just 3D third person perspective (and part of the reason I stopped playing FF after 7).

For me, Secret of Mana and SD3 are better than than any Final Fantasy game. As much as I love FFIV, if I had to choose between it and Secret of Mana, I think I would side with Secret of Mana.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bastian

Wait, how is DQVIII any more like FF than any of the other DQ games? The only difference between DQVIII and other DQs would be that it uses big 3D models third-person perspective instead of a more classic overhead perspective. THAT is what turned a lot of DQ fans off. Is that FF? No, that's just 3D third person perspective (and part of the reason I stopped playing FF after 7).

---

Well there's also the use of third person during battles... I don't know, I'm not entirely sure what Del Murder meant but VIII does make some big departures because it had such a huge focus on graphics that bled into every other facet of the game. Like the DQ games have always had these huge diverse worlds for you to explore every nook and cranny and now that's just so much more satisfying in DQVIII. Ok I'm not sure where I'm going with this but I am hungerin to play some DQ... brb.

Yeah, I meant mostly on looks.

IX is my favorite square game, followed by Chrono Trigger and FF VI. After that comes in their other games like Legend of Mana, Chrono Cross, Super Mario RPG and what not, in no particular order mind you.

On a whole their Non-FF titles are superior, but I still find it hard to beat out VI and IX.

Though if we look at outside Square, Persona 3 and 4 beat out FF, even IX.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Del Murder

Yeah, I meant mostly on looks.

---

But... that doesn't make sense. FF 1-6 have more in common with DQ 1-7 than DQ 8 has to do with FF in general.

The only thing that DQ 8 has in common with FF is that like FF it moved into full sized 3D models. But that doesn't make it any MORE like FF than DQ 6, because you could say "Like FF 6, DQ 6 was a standard sprited overhead perspective RPG released for the Super Famicom."

Look, all I know is that I enjoyed DQVIII a lot more than any other DQ game mostly because I didn't find it boring or tedious much like those games can be. I felt it looked beautiful, had interesting characters, and a decent story that wasn't predicated on 'going to town X and solving its problem, then to town Y and solving its problem, then to town Z...' So it didn't feel like DQ for me, it felt more like the PS FF games since they shared those qualities.

I'm going to have to side with Bolivar and Del on this one. DQVIII brought not only a greater emphasis on graphics and character models (a common trait of the FF series) but it also brought a heavier emphasis on character interaction and reaction. While I generally enjoy DQ plots, its a muted experience compared to more story telling based JRPGs. Your main character is always a blank slate, and even your other party members tend to go completely silent after they join you. Much of the story is often told through NPCs, which FF hasn't really done since FFIII. DQVIII changed that by having more cutscenes and dealing more with your party's feelings about the circumstances that come about. For instance, the little bratty prince you have to help get his rite of manhood for. In DQVIII you know pretty damn well how your party feels about this, and part of the drama and amusement of this story segment is watching your party keep Jessica from killing him. Whereas in DQIV or DQVII, when your party is introduced to story events like liberating the Tsarian Princess' kingdom or the events of Dharma Temple in VII, your party is mostly silent about it, except maybe one or two lines. In the old games, the reactions to the story and events is suppose to be the players reaction whereas the FF model that DQVIII follows is actually about watching the strong characters react to it, cause its a more cinematic experience. The ability to see character models react also greatly helps cause even FFIV's sprites had more expression than DQVII's models do. Once again, this is not a bad thing nor does it mean the story is any worse or better for it, cause the DQ games have tried to stay in a traditional RP mode of play for decades whereas FF went the route being more like watching films. Both have their flaws and merits and it just comes down to personal preference.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover

I remember back in the day a lot of people said Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars was a legitimately great RPG and one of the best on the SNES. (which is saying something)

Never played it myself and the fanfare seems to have died down.

---

This is my favorite RPG of all time, and thus my favorite Square game.

Granted, I haven't played nearly as many RPGs as most of you guys, so I may not be making a fair assessment here. But Super Mario RPG has been my favorite for years.

Re: OP's discussion about people making sweeping assumptions about FF (yes, I know this post is from April :shobon: ) - this happens with pretty much any popular series; it's a resentment issue. If, say, FFVI had been unattached to the series, I bet all the haters would be showering it with accolades.

Can't really think of too many that are actually better than every single final fantasy game in existence, but Chrono trigger are better than most FFs, at least. Maybe Seiken Densetsu 3 too. I would probably rate games like Xenogears lower than most FF games.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mirage

I would probably rate games like Xenogears lower than most FF games.

---

I'm not trolling when I say I'd probably put Xenogears lower than FFX and FFXIII.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

DQVIII brought not only a greater emphasis on graphics and character models (a common trait of the FF series).

---

...no. A common trait of the FF series post FFVII.

This is the problem I was pointing out: most of the pre FF VII games have a lot more in common with the DQ series than does DQ VIII. The issue is only that there are MORE FF games than DQ games. So, sure there have been more full-sized 3D models in FF than in DQ, but that's because there were only seven DQ games prior to a DQ game with 3D models. Just like (well, almost) there were only six FF games before they moved to 3D models. But then FF started pumping them out a lot faster (to their detriment, in my opinion).

>>> Now with FF13, anything is better than FF..:luca:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bastian

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

DQVIII brought not only a greater emphasis on graphics and character models (a common trait of the FF series).

---

...no. A common trait of the FF series post FFVII.


This is the problem I was pointing out: most of the pre FF VII games have a lot more in common with the DQ series than does DQ VIII. The issue is only that there are MORE FF games than DQ games. So, sure there have been more full-sized 3D models in FF than in DQ, but that's because there were only seven DQ games prior to a DQ game with 3D models. Just like (well, almost) there were only six FF games before they moved to 3D models. But then FF started pumping them out a lot faster (to their detriment, in my opinion).

---

Not really, the series has always been about making better graphics, the SNES era FFs are more distinct and graphically better than their DQ counterparts.

DQIII (NES) FFIII (NES)
http://forums.eyesonff.com/attachmen...usa-29_001.jpg http://forums.eyesonff.com/attachmen...obo_forest.png

DQV (SNES) FFV (SNES)
http://forums.eyesonff.com/attachmen...salabona15.jpg http://forums.eyesonff.com/attachmen...asyv_thumb.jpg

DQVI (SNES) FFVI
Attachment 34632 Attachment 34633


You cannot look at these side by side comparisons and tell me that Square's FF titles are not graphically superior. FFIII could almost be a screenshot from FFIV, a console jump. So while its easy to blame VII and the PS1 era for going the graphics whore way, its really been there since almost the beginning.

Wow, you actually took the time to do that. :p Point made. But my point is that because FF puts out twice as many games as DQ, so it would almost be more fair to compare DQ VI with FF III. But by that same token you could compare DQ VIII with FF IV and that wouldn't make much sense... hm.

Anyway, graphic schmaphics. The DQ team clearly STILL doesn't really focus on graphics. Look at DQ IX... it's clearly an intentional step back from VIII and back into familiar territory. We'll have to wait and see what DQ X on the wii is like, but I can be certain it won't aim for anything super fancy. DQ has always held onto its roots and thus has made nearly no missteps. If only FF had charted a similar course...

Well that's exactly why we say DQVIII was the outlier and why it is more like the newer FF games than the prior DQ games (and even DQIX). The way I've always thought of DQVIII is that it was the FFVII of the DQ series. It took it in a new direction with character interaction and a more centralized story, updated the graphics to be some of the most stunning things I saw on PS2, and added more character customization (with skill points) than we've seen (which before was either class change or no customization). I did not feel like I was playing DQ when I played it, which I could not have said for DQVII, or even IX, which, as you admit, took the series 'back' a step (which I'm sure hardcore DQ fans liked but I didn't like). I loved the game. It was progressive, a word that used in the same sentence with Dragon Quest would get you odd looks. I wish IX built on it rather than going back to the 'blank slate' characters and sidequest-based storyline.

I liked a lot of the older titles that came out during the last fifteen years.

One of my favorites was the Chrono Trigger series. Chrono Trigger had a small amount of unreleased content that made it compelling for a number of different reasons, and Chrono Cross was a number of different concepts originally and I think it would be a shame to leave the series on those old notes.

I liked Secret of Mana and Secret of Evermore, too, but Square Enix is not doing a good job with the Seiken Densetsu series and Secret of Evermore will likely never see anything else with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Del Murder

Well that's exactly why we say DQVIII was the outlier and why it is more like the newer FF games

---

That would have made sense, but the word "newer" wasn't in there. It was just "DQ VIII is more like FF" in general.

Quote:

---

or even IX, which, as you admit, took the series 'back' a step (which I'm sure hardcore DQ fans liked but I didn't like).

---

And I should mention that the "back" I mentioned was in context to going back to its roots. Not "back a step" as in being worse than VIII because I liked IX a hell of a lot more than I liked VIII.

We're all making similar points but I think DQ series and its older games don't get enough credit. Whereas Final Fantasy has used tools from other media such as 'the stage' (FFVI) or 'the camera' (FFVII) to tell a story, DQ has been about showing what this medium can do, a kind of "games for games' sake."

There's no better example of this than DQIV: Chapters of the Chosen. You actually play a segment as a dude where you wake up every day and go to work at a weapon shop. People come in to buy some things, some come in to sell some things and at the end of the day you go home to your wife, wanting more out of life. The other chapters aren't as unexpected as that, but playing as dancing sisters on the run, a princess who sneaks into a tournament, and an old knight in a JRPG version of a detective story were all good for their time as well.

I'm playing DQV right now and some of the things that happen in this game are absolutely epic, like we're talking Chrono Trigger epic and then much, much more. I'm finally seeing why so many people on here cite this game as the best in the series. There's a lot of times where I just have to put my DS down because it's hard to go back to fighting Slimes after some of the stuff that happens in this game. I played an SNES fanslation before the DS version and I have to say this was a game that was way, way ahead of its time.

That brings me to the idea that the protagonists before DQVIII were the "blank slate" model. Sure, DQIV's Hero isn't too involved, but there's tons of scenes about how he's been prepared for this his whole life, and heading to Zenithia was a mind trip all its own, especially when the stuff comes up about (SPOILER)your mother. And DQV? Hoo, boy... The things that happen around the main character and the way his life is shaped are really, really, insane. I honestly feel like the silent protagonist method doesn't necessarily diminish the potential for character reaction, because YOU'RE going through the emotions of these things yourself. And even then, you still get some choice, such as (SPOILER)who to marry, and how incredible the build up to that is in itself.

The other characters don't seem short on reactions, either. I don't remember with the original version, but in the DS version, you always have the ability to talk with your party and I've been surprised to find that they have something new to say on almost every screen transition. So I can't verify if DQVIII was the first, but there's been plenty of story involvement and character reaction in the previous games.

And this may not have to due with story, but we may as well talk about the one way in which Dragon Quest has ALWAYS trumped Final Fantasy: Balance. Now, FFV might be the exception to this. But in almost every FF the battles hardly matter at all, it's just spamming the A (or X or O) button and then using potions after battle, which become ridiculously inexpensive because of the horribly overstated amounts of gil you're amassing. In DQ the dungeon crawls have their own mechanics to them and you sometimes have to think when is a good time to stop and head back. Because the medical items lose potency once you're a good chunk into the game, you really have to think about MP conservation and how you're going to heal your teammates. Especially considering MP becomes crucial for figuring out how to suppress larger groups of enemies or different group combinations. When you level in DQ, you notice your party getting stronger, the enemies getting a little easier, and you definitely feel that sense of real accomplishment that you're getting somewhere in that game's world.

Compare this to FFVI with Edgar's machine bow spamming countless hordes of enemies, screaming like Rambo as he's mowing down line after line of foes like this was FFVI: Vietnam! Sure, the game looked pretty for its time and it has some awesome "moments," but where's the GAME? Dragon Quest V has the "moments" and the game to back it up, so where do we get the notion that Dragon Quest has always "lagged behind" Final Fantasy?

That said, I'll always be an FF guy, and I'll probably always love those PSOne FFs a little more, but I just don't think Dragon Quest gets the recognition it deserves, because there's some seriously smurfing ridiculous things that happened in those games.

IMO, FF wins the two absolute top spots, but some other Square games are better than some FF games I've played.

If I were to list all of the Square RPGs I've played, along with how I'd probably rate them on a 100 scale, then...

Final Fantasy VI (100)
Final Fantasy VII (99)
Chrono Trigger (96)
Secret of Mana (95)
Final Fantasy VIII (95)
Secret of Evermore (94)
Final Fantasy X (94)
Seiken Densetsu 3 (90)
Kingdom Hearts 2 (88)
Final Fantasy IX (88)
Super Mario RPG (85)
Kingdom Hearts (82)
Final Fantasy V (80)
Legend of Mana (75)
Chrono Cross (72)
Final Fantasy XII (70)
Final Fantasy X-2 (30)

There are a few companies that are now owned by Square that produced some excellent RPGs or RPG hybrid type games in their own time. Among these are a few I'd put in my top games I've ever played. These include Illusion of Gaia (95), Ogre Battle 64 (96), and Dragon Quest VIII (in the process of playing, so far I give it about 94).

I like your taste in games, APolaris. Make a few small adjustments (rank FFIX higher, put FFIV on the list) and you basically have my exact same rankings.

I haven't played FF4, and the issue with FF9 isn't that it's a bad game (it's actually on my top 30 of all games) so much as that the ones ahead of it are so fantastic. 9 does have its own charm though and I've probably played through it 5-6 times. I like its gameplay, or rather I like its relatively grindless endgame and the fact that its optional boss is actually hard instead of just long/preparation-based. I guess it doesn't help that 6, 7, 8, and 10 all have more memorable soundtracks. But mainly it's just that in each FF game I've played, something stands out as memorable: for 5, it's gameplay and to a lesser extent emotional impact; for 6, it's literally everything; for 7, it's character development and its world's parallels to this one (particularly slums, Avalanche, Shinra, Mako); for 8, it's backstory development, particularly with Laguna and his impact on his world; for 10, it's emotion. The other games also: SD3 has actual non-story replay value and party variety; Evermore is the most ambient game ever made. I was asked recently what makes 9 memorable and I realized I couldn't point to anything specific that wasn't its sidequests.

In my opinion the only other Square RPG that is good as FF or even better : Vagrant Story, come on you are your own blacksmith. Experimenting with new weapon combinations and then try your fused weapon against the monsters is lots of fun for me. :D

I like FF IX for its classic battle system (not spamming limit breaks) and that it brings so much from older FFs into one. FF V is simply awesome because of its job system.

EDIT: What? I forgot that CT is made by Square *facepalm* CT simply runs FF over with a tractor.