What does this story mean to you?

Troll if you must, but I don't think anyone bothers asking these kinds of questions.

What does this story mean to you?

In Literature, people come up with their own interpretations of a story, and in this way are active participants in stories, at least in a small way. You read something and it gives you an impression of a larger theme that is going on. One person's impression of what's being said differs from another; this is the basis of all literary discussion.

The nice thing about a forum like this is that we can say all that we wish about a given subject without being interrupted. Coming from a family of seven children, I have to say that this is actually one of the things I enjoy about forums.

Since I've brought it up, I'll be happy to go first.

I feel that this story is trying to explain to you what it means to be an adult, and how one must deal with the outside world as it is today. When we were children, we could get away with a lot more than now, when we are adults. As adults, we are subject to harsh punishment for breaking the rules of society as they exist in our time and place. That is the general theme. Our actions have consequences, and part of being an adult is living with the consequences of your actions in a healthy and emotionally mature way. If we can view the entire human race as one organism (not that hard when there's something like 150 or so people in the world of the game), then we can see that they pursue courses of action that lead to the inevitable consequences of the game's half-way mark. They then must resolve these consequences in the second half of the game.

This is the progression from innocence to experience; one must learn to deal with a changed world, to adapt properly, and to be inventive and resourceful, to think on one's feet.

So what's your interpretation?

I am somewhat ardently opposed to the concept of 'theme' in literature, but I will bite anyways.

What the game always seems to be stressing is that no matter how bad things get you can always continue on.

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Originally Posted by VeloZer0

I am somewhat ardently opposed to the concept of 'theme' in literature

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I think most of us who were subjected to 'What was the author thinking/symbolising here?' in English class agree with this statement.

I thought it was mostly about cheesy friendship

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Originally Posted by blackmage_nuke

I thought it was mostly about cheesy friendship

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Oh, you guys're no fun!! :p

Well FFVI isn't anywhere on my list of favorites in the series, so I don't have much of an emotional connection with the game's story and gameplay. I didn't see it as having some kind of deep underlying message I just saw it as someone who basically just created a story that would fit with type of game and to change it up a little from the other ones.

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Originally Posted by I Don't Need A Name

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Originally Posted by VeloZer0

I am somewhat ardently opposed to the concept of 'theme' in literature

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I think most of us who were subjected to 'What was the author thinking/symbolising here?' in English class agree with this statement.

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In fairness some of us writers do in fact go crazy and make everything symbolize something and stuff stories to the brim with themes.

Not naming names on who among us might do this :shifty:

Anyways, I'm veering dangerously off-topic! I haven't played FF6 in so long that I can't think of an overarching theme at the moment. I do remember a sort of sidetheme being the whole "accepting what happened in the past and moving on" thing, which I remember distinctly because it helped me get through a particularly tough time in my life.

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Originally Posted by Spooniest

In Literature, people come up with their own interpretations of a story, and in this way are active participants in stories, at least in a small way. You read something and it gives you an impression of a larger theme that is going on. One person's impression of what's being said differs from another; this is the basis of all literary discussion.

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The key words being -literary discussion.-

I guess if you aren't interested in the story, you might as well ignore me. I played this game cuz the story was cool.

Oh well.

I think the fundamental problem here is that not everyone thinks a story has to mean anything.

Apparently every FF title is designed with a theme in mind, the PS era FFs being the most well known (VII=Life, VIII=Love, IX=Meaning of Life), but if I were to state what I felt was FFVI's theme, I would say its the theme of Hope.

The first half of the game deals with Terra being the hope for he Returners to turn the tide against the empire and later its Terra again whom everyone turns to as a beacon of hope to stop the Espers. In the WoR, each of the major cast members has to do a little soul searching to find what gives them hope in their dying world, from Celes learning Locke is alive, Terra and her orphans, Sabin and Edgar have each other and their Kingdom, Cyan comes to term with his families death and lives on helping another who has lost a loved one from the previous war, Strago has Relm, and so on and so forth. I feel its pretty obvious from Kefka and the parties final exchange with each other that the theme was hope and cherishing the little things that make your life a little nicer.

In terms of different literary meaning and symbolism, FFVI in my opinion is designed to be viewed as an opera, the story is split into distinct Acts, the cast on several times acknowledges the players being there (something rather common in Renaissance Italian Operas) the ending is one giant curtain call, and not to mention the sheer amount of melodramatic moments in the game and most of the cast has Italian surnames. Kefka being a harlequin itself is a reference to the opera theme as the figures originated from Italian operas in the Renaissance and later historical periods.

Its soundtrack is also very orchestrated and utilizes musical elements like Arias, specific and distinct themes for every character, and leitmotifs. Dancing Mad, Kefka's final boss theme, is designed like a Romantic Era compostiion piece with four movements including a Fugue, a pipe organ solo, and several more leitmotifs that connect the music to the games opening track Omen, Catastrophe, and Kefka's Theme.

I would say VI was the first FF that really had some serious thematic elements interwoven into the world design of the game which continued on for the later FFs.

I was hoping I could get here before Wolf Kanno so at least I could say something before he said everything :p

If it was going to boil down to one thing, it would have to be Hope. There are a lot of points throughout the game though. The experimentation on Espers is a good example. Obviously portrayed to be an evil act done under terrible conditions, but it did have its benefits (there was something regarding Celes and her gifted Magi abilities, but I forget). Anyway, you can draw connections between that and modern science, minus the whole murder thing. Unless of course you look at cloning using embryos and then there's a question to be discussed elsewhere!

There's also a bit on "What giving in to jealousy can do to you" with Vagras and Sabin.

I could probably continue on minor points but I'm sure WK can do that for me :p

My own personal take would be that the game is about community and loneliness. Each of the characters start off doing their own thing, some have different connections to the returners, but for the most part you come across them in the middle of their own journey. You link up for a while and form bonds but once that big event in the middle comes around, you're all splintered a part. Each person has to kind of fend for themselves in a hopeless situation where they may never see their comrades again. When they come back, it's not out of a pure need to feel community, they've each resolved a personal conflict and are able to come back as an autonomous unit. They realize the whole time they were alone, that they've really taken the lesson they've learned with their friends a long with them. So the influence others have on you is something you take with you into your own life, when you face trials by yourself, so you're never really alone.

Also the game focuses on a lot of outsiders such as Locke, a solo treasure hunter, Terra, the only hybrid, Celes, the shamed general, Shadow, the haunted mercenary, etc.

This thread is really making me want to replay the game so I can actually give a good, thoughtful answer.

Well, I could write a lot about this game, but I'm lazy to do so right now (..eer) so in a nutshell, I think I'd have to agree with you OP; it's about obstacles that change you as a person, 'force' you to grow up and inevitably you have to stand up and face them. /then again, I suppose this could not get more generic, but anyway.

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Originally Posted by I Don't Need A Name

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Originally Posted by VeloZer0

I am somewhat ardently opposed to the concept of 'theme' in literature

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I think most of us who were subjected to 'What was the author thinking/symbolising here?' in English class agree with this statement.

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I don't understand either of these comments. Are you saying that you're simply not interested in analyzing stories or do you saying that there are no themes or messages in stories? If the former, that's cool, but if it's the latter I have to counter that stories are told/presented in very specific ways (chosen by the author(s)) which give meaning to what you're hearing or seeing. Most stories that are sensibly written have a 'theme' - in fact, I'd argue that the theme is the story. In the case of FFVI, one of the themes is that a country which allows its ambition for expansion to get out of hand inevitably causes ruin for themselves and those around them.

In the end, anyone who tries to grab Ultimate Power just ends up wrecking trout for everyone else, and outright destroys their own humanity. Note how most of the towns manage to scrape by, but Vector itself (the center of the imperialist ambition) is nothing but a tower of garbage.

I think theme is a poor way to convey a concept. Not only is it easily open to misinterpretation it also focuses the attention on determining what exactly the theme is rather than if the idea had any merit in the first place. For instance we are all about to embark on a conversation of how FF shows "In the end, anyone who tries to grab Ultimate Power just ends up wrecking tit for everyone else, and outright destroys their humanity" when in reality it is just a story someone wrote to show whatever the hell they wanted, completely groundless in any actual real world fact. Thematic study is essentially the triumph of emotional opinion forming over ruling reasoning.

(Yes that is right, I am sidetracking and I don't care.)

You say it's a story 'to show whatever the hell the writer wanted'... and yes, that's exactly it. That's what a story is, though. A story is just a guy's ideas put into the form of fiction. Whether or not it's based on real world fact is beside the point. Analyzing a story is to analyze the craft of the ideas in that story: how they're put together, what context they provide for one another, etc. The theme or message could be utterly absurd or groundless, yes, but that's just the nature of ideas. I argue that most stories are put together in such a way so that events convey a line of thinking or identification for the reader/viewer/player to interpret. In VI's case, the theme I brought up was something I traced across the game's plot arc. The game directors put the story together in a certain way, which may have been because they sincerely believed in the message or because they were paid to make something meaningful out of the toy they were building. A message is still a message though.

I get what you're saying about stories being a poor way to convey ideas, but stories are also art and entertainment. I don't think any writer really thinks that his or her story is clearer than an essay or something on the subject. The writer puts it together, and we as players determine what it means. We could determine that analyzing it is pointless and silly and then go ahead and dodge interpreting it, and that's fine, but then we're still ignoring the craft that has gone into the telling of the story.

And I'd also disagree that thematic study is simply emotional opinion overruling reasoning. Thematic study based entirely on 'emotional opinion' is problematic in that it may suggest an agenda the interpreter is projecting onto the story. One can be very reasonable in looking at the cogs of the story and how they function together and then make a claim about what it means.

If you're saying that interpretation like this is more or less just playtime for huge nerds, I wouldn't disagree though. I just disagree that interpretation is inherently fruitless.

Hm... As soon as people start talking about what a work of art or fiction means, my hackles rise. (My stubble seems to itch, too.)

BUT: I'll bite. But while I can't say the story 'means' anything to me, I just feel/felt it's a moving account of the 'little guy' (you need to be swedish for that to translate as intended) simply fighting tooth and nail, and to the hilt, for a cause they believe in (Gau, Mog, and optional characters excepted). Of course, the story itself has a whole lot more going on (Cyan = ouch...), but that's it in a nutshell. The little sprite-ies keep on going, so what if the world comes to fiery end along the way? (Uh, should I have marked that as a spoiler?) Mostly, though, I play through it to get to the end credits - though the 'instruments' aren't of super fidelity, that's some way gorgeous music taking place, right there. Oh, and the esper world - 7/8 magic! (Most underrated gaming tune in history?)
The rest of the game is... well, just so much fiction, like any other book/movie/game. I can't say I reflect too much on any of its 'finer points' - spares my sanity for Ultros' displays. I'm probably not japanese enough.

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Originally Posted by Flying Arrow

If you're saying that interpretation like this is more or less just playtime for huge nerds, I wouldn't disagree though.

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I find it necessary at this juncture to point out that we're all posting in a forum that is entirely centered around Final Fantasy, so, um...yeah? This whole forum is playtime for huge nerds, which we all are. So I agree with said point as well.

The big kicker for me is that around the time this game was released, the very idea of "thematic content" in the story of a video game was beginning to gain ground. Super Mario World notwithstanding, games like A Link to the Past, Mega Man X and even a relatively low-budget game like Lufia and The Fortress of Doom were starting to have some kind of statement of thematic content, an over-arching message in the story, rather than just "there are bad guys, kill they ass."

The themes of these particular stories tended toward the bittersweet, probably because it was the general thread running through most popular fiction of the time. The question I wonder about is, "Why?" Why is the general tone of Final Fantasy 6 so desperate? What is this inherent longing that is being put forth, and where did it come from?

I suppose that if enough people ask such questions, someone will try to find out (presumably from the writers of said stories). The problem is that we've continued to write video games off as "mindless" even though they've proven to us, since that time, to be thought-provoking. When Symphony of the Night started with an (albiet horribly acted) intro where Richter and Dracula have the beginnings of a philosophical/theological argument, I started asking questions.

So more on topic, what questions and thoughts does Final Fantasy 6 raise in your mind? I know this is all very purple and "deep," but see exhibit A (quoted above) for an explanation of that.

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Originally Posted by Spooniest

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Originally Posted by Flying Arrow

If you're saying that interpretation like this is more or less just playtime for huge nerds, I wouldn't disagree though.

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I find it necessary at this juncture to point out that we're all posting in a forum that is entirely centered around Final Fantasy, so, um...yeah? This whole forum is playtime for huge nerds, which we all are. So I agree with said point as well.

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I find it necessary myself to point out that what you quoted from wasn't meant in a disparaging way against this thread. Reading it over again I feel like it comes off as holier than thou, but it's not really how I meant it at all. I was just trying to distinguish where I differ from Velo's objection with regards to interpreting themes in fiction.

But just so I can add something more relevant:

FFVI tells us that a weird purple octopus can rise above his nature as a mischievous and creepy stalker by landing a cushy ticket taker job after the world ends. It's inspiring, really, if you're a sea monster.

But of course. All Final Fantasy nerds here, don't be shy now, is all I wuz sayin'.

I for instance, think that what this game majorly says to anyone who identifies with Kefka (you know you're out there, you complete monsters) is an object lesson in honor.

Don't stab people in the back to grab power or two Hot Magitek Knights, a Painter, a Samurai, a Moogle, a Yeti, a Treasure Hunter, a King Mechanic, a Kung-Fu Master, an Old Blue Mage, a Ninja Assassin, a Gambler, a Feral Child and a Thing that can do all that stuff by itself will scale your debris-infested tower and beat the living turds out of you till you are stone dead.

And once again, I'm just sayin'. We've all played this game and know exactly what I just said is true about it.

EDIT: And another thing!

This game can be played with the idea that it's all about the fact that the character sprites are now as big as Super Mario. Two Italian brothers, one a fighter and the other an engineer, who hop on turtles, throw fireballs and beat bad guys. A Princess, in the Opera scene. Heck, Mog is even just a little bit like Toad. And Setzer's starting to look a fair bit like Geno to me...

EDIT EDIT: And don't get me started on the "Jump" attack granted by the Dragoon Boots.

Fiction's Upper Limit

-Satisfying a fan base.

There's something and someone new to learn in this series. Also, fiction is an escape from reality. And a way to inspire new ideas or for something to enjoy.

Everyone has their reasons.

I'm pretty sure it's about diversity and acceptance.

Simply, I feel the basis of the game is to convey a message. By subjective measure, the very essence of the game is—with more desire comes distraction, thus forming a disconnect from reality, which is the contrived narrative running the game seeking to embroider the inevitable epileptic turmoil, having cotton soaked in this clothing to give the story clout. So, a story of fulfillment, but actually empty (I believe what I described is hopelessness). What really folds my mind to wedge into this, are the episodic memories of Kefka's unrelenting prowess of manipulation, which consisted of ulterior decay, by his own self-centered admission, led everywhere to ruin. Kefka, to me, is the epicenter of the game, inasmuch of him bearing influence on every part of the story. So it is this, what led me to whetstone my comprehension of the story at the time I played through it. With that, to simplify, desire causes perilous disconnects.

As a throw-in, I acknowledge my point is whisper-thin, but hey, my two cents. How can you live without my two cents?