Steve Jobs died. Where do you think Apple will go from here?
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Steve Jobs died. Where do you think Apple will go from here?
What in the. I didn't know he was that ill. Poor dude.
Apple will be fine. Bitches love macbooks.
Apple will go... uhm... make more things that start with "i".
This is where I point out that his health has been deteriorating for years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiro
Didn't he resign weeks ago?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cim
I don't see them changing from their "release gadget with very minor upgrades everyone else already has every year" business plan.
The world lost one of its most influential people today. I'd like to think Apple will still continue to innovate the technology market while everyone else just tries to catch up to them.
Within an hour of hearing about his death I'm playing with an iPad. And he'll never know that I take back all the bad things I said about it. Whee, Cut the Rope is a fun game!
Hell yeah that game is fun.
Don't pay much attention to Apple. Paid even less to its (former) CEO. Poor guy. Makes his appearance at that other product release or w/e a few weeks ago all the more inspiring and/or insane.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi22This is where I point out that his health has been deteriorating for years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiro
This situation kind of reminds me of President Shinra in FF VII, when (SPOILER)he was killed by Sephiroth and his son took over and began controlling the people with fear and ruining the planet, etc etc.
But that probably won't happen. Some new guy will prolly take his place and ruin everything Steve Jobs had going and fail.
Is the future of Apple products really the first thought you had when you heard the news?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cim
It's surreal and really striking to think that a man who has had such a staggering list of accomplishments could have died today at the age of 56. Just... really weird to think about. I mean logically I understand that cancer doesn't just skip over the rich and powerful, but it's still strange to see someone with the kind of resources that he had, with so much intelligence and talent succumb to the disease. I'm not a super hardcore Apple fan. But I do love my ipod and my Mac Pro and my iPad. And Pixar is like my favorite studio in the world. Individually, these things are impressive innovations. But combined, wowza. I know almost nothing of his personal life, but his professional accomplishments were extraordinary. I don't think it's hyperbole when people say that he was a game changer.
:|Quote:
Originally Posted by Brunettepudding
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EDIT: Oh yeah, unfortunate to die at 56. But less of the calling him a great inventor and innovator and comparing him to Einstein and Marie Curie. He was a man who was great at was he did, and he was a businessman and marketeer.
But he was those things. :confused: He literally changed (or at least was partially responsible for changing) how people view and interact with the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Manus
I believe he resigned cause he knew he was going to die. His statement was something like because he was unable to operate as CEO of a large organisation aka too ill to function.Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernChaosGodDidn't he resign weeks ago?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cim
I don't see them changing from their "release gadget with very minor upgrades everyone else already has every year" business plan.
No, I'm just terrible at thread topics. Problem?:quina:Quote:
Originally Posted by MirielIs the future of Apple products really the first thought you had when you heard the news?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cim
He died of cancer iirc, so yeah - he was going to die. I'm reminded of NDP tyrant Jack Layton who also passed away due to cancer. Sad day indeed.
Pretty much this. I doubt it was Steve alone who came up with most of the stuff in their new thingies.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShlupQuack
I can understand people being upset from this, but I can't understand people being surprised unless they were completely oblivious in regards to him for the past five years. His health has been very visibly deteriorating for a while now. He kept getting skinnier and paler until his frail body couldn't do the press circuits anymore. I can't say I'm shocked, but I am at a loss. What he brought to Apple was something that cannot be easily replaced. Either way, I think Apple will continue to thrive with the staff that backed him.
Until then, I'll be waiting for hologram Apple products.
Great at what he did, and what he did was invent and innovate. I didn't think he was the 2nd coming of Jesus or anything. I didn't ever watch his Apple presentations or join the Steve Jobs cult. But the dude ushered in the age of the personal computer, and then he ushered in the age of mp3 players, then he helped launch the age of computer animated films, and THEN he brought about the standard for smart phones, and then his last big accomplishment, he introduced a device that will most likely replace the laptop in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Manus
I mean that's such a large chunk of our modern world right there. It's definitely not as noble as scientists searching for cures and vaccines. These are all fancy first world luxuries, but it really doesn't change the fact that he's changed the way millions of people interact with modern technology.
I hope you aren't talking about the iPad because I hate touch screen keyboards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miriel
You might hate it, but it's gonna be a big part of the future I think: Microsoft Sustainability : Productivity, future vision - YouTube
I disliked touch screen at first too. But now I don't even take my laptop when I travel anymore, I just bring my iPad. And after resisting for a long time, I have a touch screen phone that I loooove. Thanks Steve Jobs!
*cries forever*
He was simply a (very good) businessman. This probably isn't the best thread to go into it, but Apple was but one of several other systems that 'ushered in' the age of the home computer, alongside highly successful systems such as the Amstrad PCXXX, the ZX Spectrum, the Commodore 64 and the mothersmurfing IBM PC. Steve Jobs didn't even work for Apple at this point after it almost went bankrupt, and didn't return until over ten years later.
MP3 players and capacitive touch screens had been around for years before the iPod and the iPhone became popular gadgets. Tablet PCs had been tried and failed god knows how many times twenty years before the iPad. Jobs just had the marketing prowess and business sense to find a way of getting Apple hardware into the status quo and turn it into a fashionable brand for the non-techie geek or tie-wearing office worker. That was his greatest success.
I'm not by any means trying to bash the guy, but let's just get some perspective. The fact that his death has hit home to so many is testament to the power of his marketing reach ('cult of personality' would be a bit sharp, but consider, would Bill Gates, a man who achieved just as much in the field of IT, be getting the same response?).
I'm not sure how anything you've posted really contradicts the fact that this guy was an innovator and a game changer. MP3 Players were around, but the iPod was the first truly popular one. Smart phones were around, but none as popular and as influential as the the iphone. Tablets existed, but none of them defined the device as much as the iPad has done. There are other digitally animated films, but none of them as intensely beloved as Pixar's work. The fact that he's been such a driving force behind the popularization of these things is the very reason why people are saying that he changed people's day-to-day lives. Just because something exists, doesn't mean it's important. It only because important when it starts impacting people's lives. Steve Jobs impacted a lot of lives.
You say that he was a good businessman and marketer as though those things and inventor/innovator are mutually exclusive. They're not. He was an extraordinary business man. He was an extraordinary innovator. He was a creative powerhouse. It's not like the guy was there just to market apple products. He was literally the one whose vision was carried out from beginning to end. Design, functionality, marketing, etc.
And yes, I do believe Bill Gate's death would make an incredible impact. For me, Bill Gates is probably one of the best humans on the planet.
I get it if you're someone who doesn't use any of his products, so you're just like, "wtf? He was just a CEO". But saying that he was "simply" this or "simply" that seems pretty dismissive. He took a company on the verge of bankruptcy and then made it one of the most (if not THE MOST) profitable companies in the entire world. Simply good? Damn, talk about an understatement.
Like I said, I never even watched one of his presentations, never stood in line for any of his products, and know very little about him outside of his role as the head of Apple & Pixar. I have no emotional attachment to the guy. But god damn, I do believe the man was a genius.
A unsuitably small reaction to such a great man.
What I think Old Manus is trying to get at is that he didn't invent any of those things. He simply had the marketing skills to recognize uses people may not have thought of, and/or when the technology was ready to roll out with mass market appeal. It made him a great CEO without a doubt, and certainly an innovator to a great extent, but seeing business opportunities others miss doesn't necessarily a great inventor. Not to take anything away from the man by any stretch.
Not to turn this thread into a discussion on the impact of the iPad, but I do not see it replacing the laptop. There are many uses for a personal computer, including portable computers like laptops which require more than just a touch screen. I can certainly see touch screens one day being included standard in every laptop, and perhaps when the hardware is there they will be roughly the size and shape of an iPad with easy to transport keyboard docks and wireless mice, but I don't see a tablet in the vein of the current iPad replacing a laptop for much more than surfing the net while sitting on the couch. More likely we'll see the two devices gradually merge to give people the best of both worlds, though distinct tablets like the iPad may continue to exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miriel
I hate point by point rebuttals, but
Making a device that's more popular than the previous ones isn't innovation. The iPod did exactly the same thing as a regular mp3 player. It took off with the right business model.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miriel
I'll give you this one. Pixar is a good example of innovation in the film industry. Key point: Jobs was a majority shareholder. This doesn't mean he designed any of their systems.Quote:
There are other digitally animated films, but none of them as intensely beloved as Pixar's work.
He's a driving force because of clever marketing.Quote:
The fact that he's been such a driving force behind the popularization of these things is the very reason why people are saying that he changed people's day-to-day lives.
I'm not disputing this!Quote:
Steve Jobs impacted a lot of lives.
I'll agree with creative powerhouse, but inventor? The Apple I was created by Steve Wozniak, a co-founder of Apple, and was encouraged by businessman Steve Jobs to make a personal computer (which would become the Apple II) as a possible money spinner for the company. When it came to the Apple Lisa, it was John Couch's idea to use a (new) windows and pointers interface. I'd credit him with 'inventing' the Macintosh, but everything onwards were largely Apple's versions of products that were already 'invented' elsewhere.Quote:
You say that he was a good businessman and marketer as though those things and inventor/innovator are mutually exclusive. They're not. He was an extraordinary business man. He was an extraordinary innovator. He was a creative powerhouse. It's not like the guy was there just to market apple products. He was literally the one whose vision was carried out from beginning to end. Design, functionality, marketing, etc.
Jobs was fired from Apple when they were on the brink of bankruptcy in the mid 1980s after trying to arrange a managerial coup. He came back later and brought Apple to where it is today. You're right, calling him good at business is an understatement.Quote:
I get it if you're someone who doesn't use any of his products, so you're just like, "wtf? He was just a CEO". But saying that he was "simply" this or "simply" that seems pretty dismissive. He took a company on the verge of bankruptcy and then made it one of the most (if not THE MOST) profitable companies in the entire world. Simply good? Damn, talk about an understatement.
I agree with Miriel, though it doesn't necessarily have to be the iPad so much as it will be touch pads in general. The Cloud has a real potential to limit the number of companies that spends money on building devices with internal storage when there will be seemingly infinite amounts of space in the cloud, for much cheaper. Smart phones are doing many of the things that computers are now with less than half the internal memory because of things like the cloud.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiro
It took off because the thing was beautiful and easy to use. Which pretty much spans across all Apple products. That's not business model, that's design and functionality. And going beyond that, Steve Job's business model WAS innovative. Having products that update every few months and making an event out of that? Super innovative and (although in my mind, greedy as smurf) still supremely successful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Manus
Innovation: The term innovation derives from the Latin word innovatus, which is the noun form of innovare "to renew or change," stemming from in—"into" + novus—"new". Although the term is broadly used, innovation generally refers to the creation of better or more effective products, processes, technologies, or ideas that are accepted by markets, governments, and society. Innovation differs from invention or renovation in that innovation generally signifies a substantial positive change compared to incremental changes.
I'm not sure what definition you're using to define innovation, but by most standards, Steve Jobs was one of the biggest innovators of this consumer technology era.
"Innovation, rehash the same product over and over for years."
The product had to be new at some point.
Wishful thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miriel
The iPhone, iPod et al were not 'better or more effective products, processes, technologies or ideas' in the electronics industry. There were already several alternatives on the market for each of them. Clever marketing on Apple's part made them more accessible to the masses and the brand became something of a fashion symbol. Steve Jobs didn't wave his magic wand and suddenly everyone in the world woke up and realised that they needed an iPhone to make calls instead of their Blackberry.
This is the crux of my argument. Jobs was an entrepreneur who knew how to tap into the public consciousness with his at first glance unremarkable products rather than an innovator of new technology.
You're wrong about that one. Even now with time to catch up, there really isn't a tablet that compares to the power of the iPad. When it first came out, it was far more effective than any tablet out there.
As for iPhone, there are a lot more options, but I don't recall a touch-screen phone that was as useful and sleek as the iPhone.
These products set the standard for the industry and continue to be the metric to which similar products are compared. That's more than just good marketing there. Consider that the announcement of iPad was laughed at by many for the name and for it being an 'oversized iPhone'. If it really was crap then no amount of marketing could have saved it from bombing. But it is now one of the most successful products in the world, due in large part to marketing sure, but also due to its innovation, design, and usefulness.
First of all, it's been a few days and whilst I may have gotten told "too soon" for cracking this one off on the day of Steve Jobs' death, here's a joke:
Apple announced that Steve Jobs designed one last line for them before his untimely demise. A new range of clothing called "iDyed" (now read that out loud)
Secondly to touch on a couple of points made by Del:
Ok Tablets, fun times. Apparently, according to the company I work for and Acer, Asus, Motorola and Apple I'm a tablet expert something I'm not too sure about but hey, they tell me so I must be right? iPad 1, whilst the tablet PC had not been a new thing, sure in this instance the IOS, the app's and the feel of the tablet was pretty ahead of the pack. Possibly because until Windows 7 (optimized for touch screen too according to Microsoft) tablet PC's lacked the functionality to work with touch screens and a tablet PC with a keyboard is in existence, it's called a laptop and no one can deny, the laptop is hugely successful and better than an iPad. However the iPad lacked certain functionality. For example: it had no USB port to provide easy compatibility to existing office machines. The device lacked Flash and still does in the iPad 2, the device was technically limited and from an office workers perspective the apps out there simply do not cut the mustard. In regards to the iPhone, and iPod Touch which already existed on the market, the iPad was simply a gimmick, a larger version of the iPod Touch 3rd generation. So what about the iPad 2? Well it's smaller, faster and has camera's on the front and back just like an iPod Touch 4th Generation. Oh wait what about updates to the software? Sure the IOS has been tweaked and tweaked again to make the IOS ever better (which is a good thing and in terms of operating system, IOS is still ahead of the pack with IOS 5 though not by much when compared to Android 3.0) Unfortunately for Apple and for consumers, the iPad 2 still uses the exact same apps as the iPad which means for the exact same reasons the programs do not cut the mustard with professionals. Though the option of 3G does mean that the iPad 2 as an entertainment device is awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Murder
So what about the iPad's rivals what is there imho what can compete? Well it's quite simple for the professionals out there who require or demand a fully working kit for their work on the go, there's the Acer W500 windows 7 tablet. It works pretty well though I would definitely insist on upgrading the Mcafee pre-installed as because it is a Windows 7 box, you're going to need it and the pre-installed software is optimized for it. Second of all, there is USB support which is awesome but no 3G model as of yet. With 3.0 honeycomb installed it'd be pretty cool. Though personally I'd wait for a more tablet orientated version of Windows to come out, Windows 8 isn't far away and is optimized from the ground up to work on a touch screen tablet.
For the Android alternatives? The Asus EEE Transformer is the best thing out there really. 16 hours of battery with flash leaves the iPad gasping for air before long, it's amazing and the tablet is cheating, it has 2 batteries but if you feel the tablet and look at it, the EEE Transformer is lighter than an iPad 1 and yet no bigger, now that's innovation. Android 3.0 Honeycomb is simply put breathtaking. Apps still need a long way to go but the beauty of the Android marketplace is that 70% of the apps are free and the user has the full range of customization they require from the ground up to tweak everything to get the best set up for them, something impossible on the iPad 2. It also has SD expandable memory (or micro SD but meh whichever) something which is whilst a cop-out in some regards is more useful than the iPad's sealed memory, the memory of the EEE can be filled completely and yet you can simply expand it by changing SD card. A USB slot and an attachable keyboard dock along with the excellent screen of this dock and it's competitive pricing (around £400 an iPad 2 wi-fi only 16gb is £399.99) mean this is a serious contender.
Smaller than the Apple's 10.1" screen is the Acer A100 an android 3.0 Honeycomb 7" tablet, it's brilliant, perfectly sized to fit in a pocket the great quality screen and the responsive controls mean this is far more than a pocket sized e-reader alternative. Though it can of course become one. Really this needs 3G though.
As for the iPhone? Well aside from the obvious Samsung Galaxy and Galaxy S2 (which are essentially a direct rip-off of the Apple iPhone with a different name and Android installed) You could look no further than the range of HTC phones from the Desire upwards, these phones are sharp, responsive, in fact I'd argue that the screen and gyro sensors are MORE sensitive than that of an iPod Touch or iPhone. This can be tested since AR Drones come with an Android app now. The customization options of Android again shine through though it is clear no matter what you do, the iPhone will always provide the better music playing device. A pity though that the entire back panel seals in the battery so if the battery begins to quicken in it's progression from charged to empty the only repair man or replacement park is to go to the same store
I almost read all of that.
I read the bit where he said "I'll touch on a couple points made by Del" then reread the bit where he said "I'll touch on" and then spent an hour scrolling to your post.
Sorry brah :shobon:
I read it xD
The intro to ITT class I'm taking is basically his post for an hour and then the last 2 and a half are so more stuff about how awesome cloud is and some other trout.
Yeah, probably.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Manus
I can see both points of view and would settle somewhere in the middle by listing off what I think Steve is - er, was. =/
Steve was a fantastic businessman, and I do mean fantastic. The stuff he did with Apple was immense. He has a very good understanding for marketing and, with his intelligent charisma combined with the pre-mentioned business mind, innovated in areas that others in the technology business to this day are still catching up in and may be for some time.
Fast? No. Reliable? No. Powerful? No. These are all things which other companies have managed to put into their computer devices for some time. This is not where Apple opts to invent. Actually, it can be said that Apple is still catching up to other devices released long before their Apple counterparts in all three of these areas.
Steve Jobs - and credit must also be given to his marketing team who I can only assume he was heavily involved in - innovated in hype and fashion. They took products that were useful but considered vaguely geeky and turned them into things that people who were not normally into technology would want. While doing this, he did not exclude the 'standard' target audience, either. He was a master of product promotion to the point that long before an item was released, everyone knew about it and a massive number of people wanted it. He was like the technology equivalent of a producer of Pop Idol and X-Factor. In these shows, an individual is paraded in front of people for weeks if not months before they release a single, and that single will likely be a number one hit. Steve does the same thing with products in a way that no other that I can think of has ever done before - well, not successfully, anyway!
I don't know much about his actual inventions. I don't know much about how savvy he is with circuitry. But to my knowledge he has always been the businessman rather than the inventor. I could be wrong, though. I don't know if I would call him a great inventor because of that.
I would definitely call him a great innovator, but not because iPods and iPads are amazing products so much as because he can market a modern technology product to the wider population like no other businessman in history. He can make people want his product despite it being inferior to other products at the same price. He can make people parade his product like a girl shows off her engagement ring. This can even make some other people feel bad for not having his product. Incredible.
I agree with Manus that some things being attributed to him are extremely generous. I also agree with Miriel/Murd that some of the things he has done are incredible and highly innovative. I would not say his products are highly innovative... at least, not the iPod and iPad. This should not be seen as an insult to Steve Jobs, though. This actually makes his achievements all the more incredible.