Once More Unto The Breach: A (Possibly) Unique Position To Be In

Hi, guys. I wanted to stop by and share my experience with FFVII, my current stance and what my feelings about it are. It's something of an odd one. I thought it might prove interesting, or at least amusing to some of you. I'd be interested what you think...


Yesterday, I dropped my ePSXe FFVII folder back onto my HD and booted up the last saved game available, and there was Cloud - standing next to the save marker at the base of the Sister Ray in Midgar - no doubt waiting to ascend the gantries and take on Hojo. I forget how long he must have been standing there, waiting for me to return. Eight months? A whole year? Maybe longer. He's been there twice before, and he knows the score: Soon he'll descend into the North Cave, grab a few cool new additions to his arsenal, and then promptly turn around and head back out for another protracted series of grinding sessions that will inevitably wane. The whole grand adventure will come to a halt. He'll never get around to that final showdown with Sephiroth. He never has done!

• 1st Playthrough: Made it to the City of the Ancients, realised I had missed out on tons of stuff, bought the strategy guide and restarted... (25+ hours)
• 2nd Playthrough: Refered to the guide and made it to the North Cave, grabbed the goodies and retreated, buffed up, got gold chocobo etc... (70+ hours)
• 3rd Playthrough: Done on PC, reached submarine chase, technical issues... (50+ hours)
• 4th Playthrough: Using emulator, much the same as 2nd playthrough... (65+ hours)
• 5th Playthrough: Current save, looking dangerously close to 2nd & 4th playthroughs... (56 hours, and counting)

And there's the truth of it. I've invested close to three hundred hours in this game, but I have yet to take that final plunge and go up against Sephi'. I haven't even been curious enough to watch someone else do the deed on Youtube. After 14 years of sporadic playing and replaying, I realise I might actually be in a very unique position.


This latest game save is so very close to the point where I have always veered off course and gone a-grinding. As I sit here, I know fully well that I could crack on this afternoon, forge my way towards that final goal (my character levels are more than adequate); and be leaning back sipping red wine and watching the end credits as the sun sets over the rooftops. The problem is, I just don't want to. :cry:


I'm currently wandering the map revisiting all those fondly remembered places, battling all the different adversaries, experimenting more with command materia and physical attacks... generally having fun and not going anywhere fast. There's a number of goals I could work towards, items I never got around to collecting in the past, materia I never mastered etc.. I've yet to go up against Ruby and Emerald, although I remember initiating combat in the past just to check them out.


So there you have it. I'm playing FFVII again and doing what I have always done: Making Sephiroth sweat while I potter around having fun! :greenie: Maybe I'll never get around to completing the game. Some of you might suggest beating the game just so I can say I've done it, and then going back to the other tasks at leisure. That certainly seems like the most logical thing to do, but I just can't. The idea of beating the game, that sense of closure... it's a little unnerving - even disagreeable to me. I would much rather start a whole new game than take those last few steps. The strategy guide is very clear on the subject...

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"WARNING! There's no turning back at this point."

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No, I think I'll be staying on this side of the fence - at least for the foreseeable future. It feels warm and safe over here. Comfortable. Sephiroth will have to continue twiddling his thumbs and pacing back and forth in frustration. Maybe I'll head on over to the Underwater Reactor this afternoon. I never did manage to morph a Ghost Ship. :)

Lol I've never beaten Sephiroth either, tbh. In my second playthrough I managed to obtain every single materia, but the grinding required to master them all was far too daunting to do alone. At this point there are so many extra things to do in the game that I can't be arsed. I did almost everything the second time, got all the enemy skills, won all the chocobo races, got all the good Battle Square prizes, bred all the chocobos etc. During my latest playthrough I was trying to beat Ultima Weapon and having trouble finding him, even though I've beaten both him and Ruby before. Speaking of Ultimate Weapons, I only recently learned that they don't allow materia equipped in them to gain any AP. I never even knew before that different weapons have different rates of AP, and I've since sold all the weapons that might have been superior in that regard. You'd think Ultimate Weapons should have great AP rates considering they're so hard to obtain.

But yeah, I may just cave in and forget about the Weapons this time and finally finish the game. I've never seen the ending, and I don't want to watch it on Youtube. I don't think I would have enough patience to master all the materia or do any of the extra stuff at this point. Playing it again I've realized how much smaller the game is than I remembered it, and it just doesn't hold the same appeal anymore. Good on you for finding so much to do in-game, but I would urge you to complete it eventually - as you've said, you won't find closure otherwise.

Vincent: It's kind of pleasing to hear I'm not the only long term player to have not yet bitten the bullet and seen the last moments of the game through to conclusion. Makes me feel less abnormal... Haha.


I hear you regarding the ultimate weapons. I have always been prone to settle on the weapon that I find the most visually appealing for each of the characters. It's usually a far more basic (early acquired) weapon that wins my heart. The uber weapons are cool in principle, and it's certainly nice to know you put in the effort to acquire them, but at the end of the day, they are mostly too obnoxious - at least visually - to warrant their use. Some of the AP double/triple weapons are not bad looking and are worth the odd fling, but I definitely wouldn't want to spend a protracted amount of time with them... Hehe. They don't feel grounded enough. Aesthetically, they are like a bunch of 16 year old girls trying to pass as women and dressing like the idiot pop stars that adorn their bedroom walls: Too much fake glitter and sparkly bits and not enough solid, well thought out purpose. They just look silly. Cloud's "Organics" is a good example. I mean, WTF! However huge and disproportionate his original sword was (forget the name), it looked the biz'. Sure, westerners took the piss at first, but it's become an almost iconic design - form and function!


Anyway, sorry to go off on a rant about weapons. Not sure where that came from.Probably got some deep rooted love/hate that I need to work through on my own. Naked. In my fathers cellar. With leather straps and some kind of crank device with rusty gears... ahem. :greenie:


I do like the fact you mentioned the game feels much smaller than it once did. That has certainly been the case for me over the years. I guess over familiarity has made it shrink somewhat. There was a Time when I was in awe at the moment I left Midgar for the first time and contemplated the breadth of the larger world. There's that first time when you are asked to change disks and you've already been playing for what seemed like aeons. Then you slowly begin to realise the other disks are mostly fmv filler. Still, I don't mean to moan. :)


Just throwing in an update: I quickly realised this afternoon that I had already acquired a guidebook from the Underwater Reactor at some earlier point. Not sure why I didn't remember this fact... maybe it was down to a protracted grind session I had some time last year. I'm currently setting myself up on the Western island and taking on 5 enemies in one round, thanks to a nice use of counters, covers, pre-emptives, and double cut/slash all. I'm going all physical and no magic. I'm killing more enemies in less time, and because of the multiples, I'm raking in more gil, AP, and experience at a quicker rate than I was in the old days when I used to think I was rocking, because I was hard fighting Gelnika Unknowns for protracted periods of time (setting up haste and all that crap) - just because the strategy guide pointed out they have the highest payout rate. How smurfed up is that? :redface:


I'm so glad I came back to FFVII, and did so with a refreshed mind. It feels like I'm playing the game for the first time and actually experimenting at every given opportunity. I'm loving the fast multiple attacks approach. Zero magic. The multiple enemies that attack just south of Wutai seem to offer the quickest ratio of time vs gain (I think) and pump out more x-potions than the item menu can cope with. So, because I'm only using physical attacks, I can cover my ass while I fight - for free. As Bugenhagen would say... "Ho, ho, hooooo!" :roll2


My only question is, why didn't you guys smack me round the head when I first signed up and told me this trout to begin with?! Swines... the lot of yer! :mad: :)

Never beat it either. I had a save file at the end game that just wasn't quite strong enough to win, and I never got around to grinding until it disappeared. The first 20 hours of the game are the most enjoyable for me so I end up replaying it over and over. Going through Midgar is glorious and I don't know why.

Not much to add here, but I just want to say that I always have a ton of fun going back to FF7. 2012 doesn't have any releases that really interest me at all. The last few months have been crazy for me with Deus Ex, Dark Souls, Batman AC, and now Skyrim. At some point next year I'll probably be turning back to the classics, though. I'll be pulling out some of my old discs and more than likely grabbing everything I can from the increasingly awesome PSOne Classics on PSN.

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Originally Posted by Flying Arrow

Not much to add here, but I just want to say that I always have a ton of fun going back to FF7. 2012 doesn't have any releases that really interest me at all. The last few months have been crazy for me with Deus Ex, Dark Souls, Batman AC, and now Skyrim. At some point next year I'll probably be turning back to the classics, though. I'll be pulling out some of my old discs and more than likely grabbing everything I can from the increasingly awesome PSOne Classics on PSN.

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Cheers to that :cheers:

OP >_<, I think you need help. Like serious therapy, and possibly a tad of medication. For a lot of things, not just the topic at issue. Speaking of which, I can just imagine the therapist now...

Therapist: Are you afraid that by beating FFVII it will officially be over?

Seriously, dude. It's like you're stuck in 1997 and the game just came out and you're afraid that by beating the game, it won't be 'new' anymore. Honestly, I kind of envy you man. You still have that curiosity of the unknown, you don't know how the ending sequence wraps everything up, you don't know how the final boss fight plays out, hell you don't even know what some of the environments look like, outside of maybe the glimpses you've seen from screen shots in your guide.

So yeah I'm jealous. But I think it's time to put it to rest man. It's 2011, the game is 14 years old, it's time to see what happens to these characters you've known all this time. Get a little grinding in, do a few sidequests, but head to that crater. Delve deep into its recesses. Find Sephiroth. End the struggle.

As far as me, I love going back to VII. I played it a ton of times after beating it initially, but never quite got far again. Years later I played through every Final Fantasy in order twice after FFIII, the last game to be localized, finally came out. Really enjoyed VII on those playthroughs and it cemented it as best in the series. When I finally got my PSP in 2009 I immediately downloaded FFVII from the PlayStation Store and played through the whole thing on the handheld. Had a blast. Looks fantastic as well. Great game man. But now it's time to finish it.

You can always go back and visit anytime you want!

I've got to agree with Bolivar, take the plunge and finish the game, you owe it to yourself! And then your journey down the path to the dark side will be complete! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Your childhood will be officially dead.

Way to be depressing guys xD

Take the plunge. Delve deep into the crater. Fight and defeat Sephiroth.

Then set fire to yourself.

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Originally Posted by Bubbaforever

Take the plunge. Delve deep into the crater. Fight and defeat Sephiroth.

Then set fire to yourself.

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:hahaha:

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

I think you need help. Like serious therapy...

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Haha, I can see how what I wrote may give you that impression. It's not really about being obsessed with the game or trying to cling to a little fragment of nostalgia though. It's more to do with the fact my interest in the game remains with the world presented, and not much in the grand adventure and saving the world etc... I have given it some thought and decided that it would only be right to finish the game before I go back in and enjoy messing around with my new found love of yellow materia mashups, and maybe taking a spab at Ruby and Emerald. I certainly intend to see the game through sometime this coming weekend, but there are two reasons now that make it feel somewhat of a chore.


Firstly, I have no interest in Sephiroth. None. I really dig the nuances of the plot that has unfolded, but the character of Sephi' just doesn't do much for me. Plus, by the time I started my second playthough, I had already had enough of everyone going on and on about him. I guess in this case, it might be just best to smack him down and then the deed is done.


The second misgiving I have at the moment is that I know it's going to be a major chore to sort through all the materia and re-equip everyone in a manner to my liking. I'll have to keep on phoning characters up and swapping the around, making sure I've got things covered etc... That's probably gonna be a half hour session of pain right there! :mad:

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

...after FFIII, the last game to be localized.

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Could you elaborate on that? I don't quite understand what you mean.

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Originally Posted by Bubbaforever

Then set fire to yourself.

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Now there's a game plan. I could jam a Sephiroth action figure up my butt before I lit the match! :D:greenie::eep::tongue:

So yeah, I think I'll go through with the deed at the weekend. I'm currently dipping into FFIX at the moment as well. Never got very far with that. I also bought a copy of FFX guide and a big hardback XII one on impulse the other day from a second hand bookshop. I thought they would just be fun to flick through at bedtime, but now I'm really rather interested how the newer battle systems seem to work. Might have to multi-task a bit soon. :confused:

Too much over-thinking. Just finish the game and move on to whatever you want to do.

I don't understand why you guys insist on getting every single item and max ot every materia on your first runs through. You might have some sort of obsessibe compulsive disorder.

The last boss gets more boring the stronger you are, so if you want a boring instead of an epic last boss, sure, go ahead. At your current rate, you'll probably kill each of the last boss stages in 2-3 attack rounds. Doesn't that sound super exciting?

Haha OP I was just joking about the therapy, I think I do get that you really love FFVII for its world and gameplay mechanics, but if you care about this setting you should finally try to save it once and for all and see what happens to it! At least for that. And you can also feel rewarded for all the hard work you've done when everything goes down easy from your awesome equipment/abilities.

And definitely play FFIX. It's real fun. I like X and XII a lot too, they're all incredible games IMO.

Edit: and about FFIII being the last game to be localized, I mean it was the last FF to only be released in Japan, to have never been initially launched in the US. FFII and V were never originally released, either, but we got them later on with the FF Origins PlayStation title and the FF Anthology collection, respectively, and then a ton of ports in the future. But FFIII never came, and seemingly out of nowhere it was announced for the Nintendo DS. I remember hearing about it because I was in GameStop and turned around and saw a huge display for it. I'll always remember that as the moment when I realized that I was going to have to buy a Nintendo DS lol....

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Originally Posted by Mirage

I don't understand why you guys insist on getting every single item and max ot every materia on your first runs through. You might have some sort of obsessibe compulsive disorder.

The last boss gets more boring the stronger you are, so if you want a boring instead of an epic last boss, sure, go ahead. At your current rate, you'll probably kill each of the last boss stages in 2-3 attack rounds. Doesn't that sound super exciting?

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Actually I have a question about this:

I recently read that the final boss's stats get a boost if you go into the fight with your characters at level 99 (I can't remember if it's your main three or the entire party). Can someone confirm if this is this true?

For every one of your 8 characters you've leveled up to 99 (Aerith doesn't count) Sephiroth gets stat boosts. Seraph/Sepher Sephiroth also gets an 80000 HP bonus if you used KotR against Jenova Synthesis.

Edit: Found this:

(SPOILER)
Safer*Sephiroth's stats change depending on various factors:
+30,000 Max HP, 2 Att, 20 Def, 5 MAt, 16 MDf per character at L99

Bizarro (main fight, 3 partys):
Main Body's Max HP = 40000 + 5000 * No. of Characters at L99
+ 60000 if Knights of Round was used on Jenova*SYNTHESIS
Head's Max HP = 2000 + 250 * No. of Characters at L99
Core's Max HP = 16000 + 2000 * No. of Characters at L99
Right Mgc's Max HP = 8000 + 1000 * No. of Characters at L99
Left Mgc's Max HP = 8000 + 1000 * No. of Characters at L99


(copied straight out of gamefaqs' Enemy Mechanics guide)

If you have your characters at level 99, despite the stat boosts he gets, it's still way too easy.

Yeah, 8 characters at lv99 adds 40k HP. That's two attacks with double cut. One attack with 4x cut.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

Haha OP I was just joking about the therapy...

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I'm glad someone is... hehe... *twitch* hehe... heh... Iiiirrrrrk! Dung beetle in blue, beetle in blue... no, red. RED! The beetle dung is in red... hehe... dung beetle red... hello, hello, foxtrot delta beetle! :jess: :confused:


Ahem. Seriously though, your point was totally on the ball. I'm not stuck on this game (I have happily left it for years at a time, unfinished and discarded), I just find myself revisiting it every few years in little pockets of playtime. Might as well finish up. After all, I have other FF games I would like to explore.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

And definitely play FFIX. It's real fun. I like X and XII a lot too, they're all incredible games IMO.

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I am certainly enjoying FFIX at the moment. Just playing a bit each night. I also bought X and XII. I figured I might as well buy the actual games because they cost less (second hand) than the game guides cost - and I only bought them on a whim for casual perusal purposes. I've had a little initial tussle with both X and XII. Obviously too early to judge, and I don't want to start waxing on about those games in this sub forum, but... by the gods, I so want to press my very real and corporeal hands into the screen, and wrap them around Tidus' scrawny virtual kneck. My first experience with a FF game and voice acting, and I am in total kung-funking agony!

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

...and about FFIII being the last game to be localized...

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Thank you for setting me straight on that. For a while I thought there were alternate titles for earlier games with extra bosses etc... like the recent western/international releases. A little confusing for skunk brain like me.


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It's interesting to learn that Sephi' alters stats based on player character levels. My understanding is that this is a big part of FFVIII, but I had no idea it was also a part of VII - however small. My questio is, how small? I mean, what other factors throughout the game are possibly governed in this way? The only one I am prone to say I am sure about is the general starting level of new characters when first encountered. They seem to be based off some average of Clouds current level? Maybe other factors such as game time etc... are part of the math.


Makes me wonder what other factors are at work behind the sheen. My question is, how do people arrive at these findings? Is it formulative cross-referencing? Poking around in game code? I mean, I'm not the most savy and/or wide eyed goo-goo-giggly FF fan, but as far as my peripheral glands are concerned, they have yet to stumble upon hard stat readouts of that nature in those stiff smelling game guides, or general staff interviews etc...


The Sephi' stat bumps mentioned above are a nice thing to stumble upon, but having just read the comments it did jog my memory a little about half remembered indepth discussion in various FF games that I read on these forums regarding more finely measured game mechanics. I cannot for a minute imagine collectives of people playing that intently and swapping data to arrive at such solutions beyond the overtly recogisable, like Sephi'. Where do the rest of the aggregates and proposed formula come from? Stat-wanking must surely only get one so far!

Anyway, just a quick upnote: I'm up for a boss/game beat session tomorrow, and will try to post my honest thoughts regarding the ol' grand finale. It's a bit late for an original view (over a decade too late, haha) but maybe my general nonchalant advance will yield an objective slant non the less. Although I will say in advance, if Aerith shows up, I'll start punching my pets in the face!

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The Sephi' stat bumps mentioned above are a nice thing to stumble upon, but having just read the comments it did jog my memory a little about half remembered indepth discussion in various FF games that I read on these forums regarding more finely measured game mechanics. I cannot for a minute imagine collectives of people playing that intently and swapping data to arrive at such solutions beyond the overtly recogisable, like Sephi'. Where do the rest of the aggregates and proposed formula come from? Stat-wanking must surely only get one so far!

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I guess they're mentioned in the strategy guide, like the Zodiac Spear. But even if it wouldn't be - people would've found out. If you check out Qhimm you'll find all kinds of mods for this game. People have coded new enemy encounters and I can only assume that for someone who knows how the game's code works this well, it's easy to figure out how Sephiroth's stat boosts work.