Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance
Despite it's weird new title I'm really looking forward to this game :bigsmile:
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Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance
Despite it's weird new title I'm really looking forward to this game :bigsmile:
Not at all really. Raiden's role in 4 was sorta the annoying "Japanese people need to put a Katana in things" effect. I was able to ignore it because they made him a badass, but not enough to give him a stand alone game. :/
MGS2 was basically his game as well.
Edit: Watched the trailer. Looks like the bomb-diggity and Platinum is behind it which a sign of good quality. I hope there is at least a little bit of stealth. The stealth would be fast I assume. It would cool taking out a room full of guys without any of them knowing what the heck is going on.
That was probably the most ridiculously overdone ending to a trailer I've ever seen.
On to the subject: I think it feels like whoring out a franchise and it's characters. Even Ray is bending over now. This game looks like all-flash and doesn't show any in depth link to the MG universe. This easily could and should have been a new IP (heck, it even sorta feels like one), and that contradiction is a dealbreaker for me. I'm no longer interested.
I wasn't interested before but now seeing that Platinum Games is making it and after seeing the trailer, I'm getting more and more excited the more I think about it.
This was always going to be an action game, and frankly, I don't think Kojima Productions could ever make on half as good as they can. Vanquish was easily one of the most undeniably fun games I've played this year (I was a little late to the party). Everything I saw in that trailer looked delightfully over the top and exciting. I could care less if they drop a hard link to the regular MGS universe. Let Platinum cut loose and do what they do best.
Omfg this is soo f**king pathetic. Let's be honest, 2 years from now Kojima is going to start sprouting that this was non-canon and not what he wanted to do. If you follow his twitter he already seems to be leaning in that direction from early response to the trailer. It's gonna be like "Snake's Revenge" or the "Acid" titles on PSP. If a game not made by Kojima is good (ie. Portable Ops) he'll boast of how it's canon and was part of the plan all along. But when it sucks he denies his involvement in the project. Kojima you've been down this path before!
The old Rising from E3 was actually really interesting. I liked how they were using the MGS4 engine and how it allowed for stealth gameplay with a 'no human death' play through. Revengence doesn't seem to have any stealth what-so-ever. I also don't like how they're doing the story. The original story of how Raiden became a cyborg between MGS2 and MGS4 would've been a really great addition to the series (seeing how much fans hated him in 2 and loved him in 4). At the end of MGS4 Raiden was good and had a family (Rose and the kid), but now he suddenly back in armor as a Mercenary?....WTF! Also why is Vamp back? How many times do we have to kill his ass?
I hate to shoot this project down without any real hands-on, but I was one of those people who were geniuely looking forward to the Kojima studio's version of MGS: Rising. Platinum is an amazing studio (loved Bayonetta and Vanquish was pretty cool), but this isn't the direction I wanted this project to go. I'll probably still end up buying it, just based on Platinum's pedigree for over-the-top amazing action (the scene where Raiden lifts up MG Ray looked pretty insane). They seem to be using a variation of the Vanquish engine and Kojima already reported that the game would be running at a solid 60 fps. We'll see how thing start to pan out, but all in all I really wish the Original Rising would continue in some form. If anything, just to fill in the gap between MGS2 & 4.
Here's the thing about the original Rising that Kojima Productions was working on (if they actually were seriously working on the game), aside from the fact that I can't recall them ever saying it would be a stealth game (I'm fairly certain Kojima was saying from the beginning that it was going to be an action title, and frankly, doing anything else with cyborg Raiden after MGS4 would have been silly), I don't think Kojima Productions could have pulled it off. And I'm willing to bet the entire reason they're just producing it now and Platinum have come in to do the actual heavy lifting is because they either knew they couldn't do it or didn't want to have to do it. And frankly, the trailer they showed last year didn't look a whole lot different from what they showed now. The only real differences I saw being that this one seemed to be faster paced, and looked like it controlled better than what they were showing in 2010. Neither of which is a bad thing if you ask me.
As to why Raiden is back to being a cyborg mercenary nirojan, I would assume it's out of necessity to fight the enemies in the game. Technically, he never stopped being a cyborg after MGS4. He just got a more human looking body.
I Bolded what my responses address. They clearly stated the original rising would be a mix of Stealth and Action. The 'No Human Kill' was supposed to be in the original Rising. Actually (according to the Konami Podcast) they were well into development and Kojima was the one to stopped production citing "it wasn't what his vision was going to be". Even though Kojima is listed as Executive Producer, Kojima Productions is only in charge of the story and cutscenes. Platinum requested that the story be changed to post-MGS4 so there wouldn't be any paradoxes with MGS4. I'm fairly confident KP could've finished the original project had it continued development.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi22
Also the look is very different to me.
Original:http://andriasang.com/comzbb/images/22ho5/full.jpg
Revengence:http://andriasang.com/comzbb/images/23m70/full.jpg
The Original Rising had used an updated MGS4 engine and felt like a Metal Gear. whether it was the aesthetic or the way the characters looked it felt more closer to the series. Revengence is using a palette of bright colors and Ninja Gaiden-ish blood sprays. It's alot more action oriented and it looks like an over-the-top Vanquish with Cyborg Ninjas.
I don't see a lot of difference between the current trailer, and the one that was shown at E3 (last year I think?) gameplay wise. I'm not talking about visuals, though with that said, while the colours may be brighter than MGS4, the art style is still very much Metal Gear to me. Not only that, but Raiden just looked like he controlled better to me than he was in the E3 trailer we got some time ago.
As to it originally being a stealth game, I hadn't heard that from them, especially since it always seemed their marketing and the things they talked about were pushing the action side of things heavily. And frankly, I think if they had made stealth an option it would have simply been a waste. Nobody who played MGS4 and enjoyed watching Raiden slaughter Geko's or knife fight Vamp honestly watched those cut scenes and thought it would be cooler if he were sneaking around. The new trailer looked a lot more like we were getting to play Raiden as he appeared in MGS4, but taken to a whole other level in terms of intensity.
I guess maybe I shouldn't have said Kojima Productions couldn't have pulled it off. We're talking about the guy who created Zone of the Enders after all. But I don't think they could have done this particular type of action game as well as Platinum can. I mean, we're talking about the guys who made Devil May Cry, Viewtiful Joe, God Hand, Bayonetta, and Vanquish, among a host of other titles for Capcom and Clover (seriously, name a major title Capcom released in the last 15 years other than Street Fighter 4 and these guys basically created it). Action is basically what they do.
http://i.minus.com/ihhDnP9FOgPcR.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Vivi22
http://i.minus.com/iERbWaj5zMuZi.gif
I thought it would be really intriguing to meld opportunity of one hit kills and stealth aspect of MGS together. Now, One hit kills are just cut-scene finishers after XXX + YYY.
Yes that is true. The original director of Rising was commenting on how fast decisions get made at Platinum. Like someone will say 'lets's try this' or 'this would be cool' and bam they're implementing it. The scene I was alluding to before, where Raiden lifts Ray up, is something that KP would never have done because that's the type of studio they are. <- Now even though he said all that, I'm guessing he's still crying inside for having the project taken away from him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi22
They had Raiden hold back Outer Haven with one arm by stabbing through his foot into the ground and, somehow, lifting Ray would have been too much for them? Interesting.
I will give them one thing: I'm actually really feeling the whole 80s-metal style to the logos, soundtrack and overall vibe. I think that's actually a pretty cool art direction to utilize.
But I was never really into Rising to begin with. It was kinda hard when it was announced alongside a full, co-op Metal Gear starring Big Boss. It was pretty much the game they gave Microsoft for their "Level the Playing Field" initiative this generation, but like other titles in that category, it's devolved into a confused concept lost in development hell before it just gets released as something we've seen before.
About the setting... I do think it's dumb to change it to after MGS4. For a game with so many brilliant moments to close that chapter of the series with a heartwarming ending in which every character finds peace after decades of hell, it's completely undermined for it being "time for Jack... to let 'er rrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiip!!!!" LOL. And I do think him flinging RAYs as if it's nothing is silly, because it cheapens that moment at the end of Act 4 that you guys have brought up already.
Despite my concerns of the original, as Nirojan's said, it still looked like a Metal Gear, with all the bizarre-ness of the art design, the high quality graphics engine, and new innovations for the series like destructible environments. But this looks like every action game that's been released every three months since this generation started, with the magnet-mechanics dragging you towards enemies to boot. I mean, damn, even graphically it looks pretty generic.
I'm a fan of Metal Gear, I play them because of Kojima's vision and his genius, that unpalpable signature feel he brings to his games, and I just don't have interest in something like this. I'll wait to see how Project Ogre materializes, keep unlocking items and completing side missions in Peace Walker, and continue clamoring for a new iteration of Metal Gear Online (which the switch to Platinum Games undoubtedly killed any chance of...)
Realistically though, if he could hold back Outer Haven while it was moving, then he can pick up a substantially smaller Ray while it's not only standing still, but slightly off balance from putting it's weight into trying to crush him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
But more importantly, the only way I could see any of this as cheapening stuff that happened in previous games is if you treat it as a serious sequel. And frankly, if you're coming at it from that angle then you're kind of doing it wrong. It's clearly intended to be an over the top action title, and viewing it as anything else, at least for now, is a bit premature.
Since Kojima is working on MGS5 I wouldn't bother treating this as a serious sequel to MGS4. I'm guess the plot to Rising is still going to deal with how Raiden became a cyborg & how he rescued Sunny from the Patriots. It would be odd if that wasn't the plot to be honest!
Hate to break it to ya. MGS5 is not confirmed to be in development. Project Ogre and the new Fox Engine may be a sign of the next MGS entry, but as of now Kojima still stands by MGS4 being the last game for Solid Snake. The plot from Rising has changed significantly. It will no longer be between the second and fourth game. It's now post MGS4. I would very surprised if Sunny returned for Rising.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shattered Dreamer
It's post MGS4? Oh that's just wrong........Quote:
Originally Posted by nirojanHate to break it to ya. MGS5 is not confirmed to be in development. Project Ogre and the new Fox Engine may be a sign of the next MGS entry, but as of now Kojima still stands by MGS4 being the last game for Solid Snake. The plot from Rising has changed significantly. It will no longer be between the second and fourth game. It's now post MGS4. I would very surprised if Sunny returned for Rising.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shattered Dreamer
Metar Gear: Advent Children
So they decided Metal Gear Rising should become No More Heroes without the tongue in cheek satire? You know, I wasn't interested to begin with but now after watching that trailer, I'm going to just pretend it doesn't exist. Please Kojima, and Konami, and all the MGS fans out there in the interweb, just let MGS rest in peace... :cry:
I suppose you're right. Like I said, the whole 80s metal direction is pretty fun and I guess with an over the top title just meant to be fun, there's nothing wrong with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi22
I don't mean to hound you, Wolf (no pun intended...originally) but I just don't get why people say this. The man's done five main entries of the Solid series in 13 years... there's less deserving series that have been far more diluted, yet these have all been amazing; a credible argument can be made that they're the best games on their platforms. I suppose some people want him to direct in different franchises, but that's kinda moot when there's so many fresh ideas in each new game. I can't speak for anyone else but when you have a series that consistently puts out the best games in town and they don't release on that repetitive of a schedule... I can't help but celebrate every time a new one's announced. I don't think you have a claim considering you haven't played Peace Walker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Word.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
I just feel bad for the guy, he's been trying to duck out of the franchise since MGS2 and even tried to kill Snake off for good in MGS4. Why can't fans just accept there is nothing else to tell and just let the series end on a high point rather than risk the chance of overextending the franchise and allowing it to finally fall from grace. Besides, we both agree Kojima's a great game designer, so does it really matter if he's working on something that isn't MGS? He's still going to bring those fresh ideas he would have in an MGS title to any game he works on, so why can't we let him move on and perhaps make sequels to some other high profile franchises he's made like Snatcher or Zone of the Enders. I mean for smurf sake, even Nomura and Sakeguchi got to make and direct non-FF games over the years. Outside of being called in to finish up Castlevania Lord of Shadows and finally producing the third Boktai game Lunar Knights, he's been doing nothing but MGS for the last several years. Let the poor man move on, he's only been asking fans for ten years now. :roll2Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
I've played the demo, the Japanese one to be exact, so its not like I don't know anything about the game. Personally, I feel I've been hesitant to play it because I'm afraid it will play overall like MGS4 and be more of a third person shooter than a high stakes stealth title. The demo, and my second round with MGS4 kind of killed my interest back when I picked it up, but I guess it's collected enough dust if you're going to pick on me for it :pQuote:
I don't think you have a claim considering you haven't played Peace Walker.
He's not writing this game, or directing it. Another developer entirely is actually making the thing. How is that not letting him move on?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
And honestly, here's the problem I have with fans crying out to let him move on at this point: he can move on at any time. He doesn't have to make another MGS title for he rest of his life. Konami can certainly ask him to, but he's one of the only well known Japanese game designers who could go off on his own and be swimming in investors to start up a new developer who hasn't already done it. If he's sick of doing MGS games, he certainly has the clout to outright tell Konami he's going to do something else or walk, and probably have them bend over backwards to keep him if only because they have no one else. Kojima is the only one over there who has been consistently putting out titles that are actually worth playing for years.
Considering how good ZOE 2nd Runner was I'd love if Kojima did ZOE3! I will agree the MGS universe has little story to tell, Ocelot is dead, Liquid & Solidus dead, Snake with very little time left, FOXDIE dies along with Snake & the Patriots are gone. But then again Raiden, Otacon, Meryl, Johnny & Sunny are alive if they really wanted too they could possibly be another MGS game. A possible route can they take is that another of the Les Enfant Terribles didn't die & you have a ready made villain right there (Liquid mentions to Snake in MGS they were originally Octuplets). It also wouldn't be beyond Kojima to retcon some part of the story to bring a villain back I mean the series is full of retcons already!
My only problem with MGR:R is that instead of sticking with a gamestory that bridges MGS2 & MGS4 together, which is the game I for one really wanted, we're potentially getting something new. I guess we'll just have to wait & see!
Y'all are missing the point here, and the point is thus:
Revengeance?
Oh Japan, you so crazy
Hate to break the news here, but apparently there will be another MGS title. Sorry WK looks like he won't be making anything other than MGS for awhile.
Stealth Will Return in Next Metal Gear Solid Sequel
When asked about the stealth in rising, he responded that there'll be no stealth mechanics, but not to worry since the next MGS sequel will have stealth. Bummer MGS4 was such a great highnote to end the series on.
1. I'm not sure why people are saying Snake/Otacon/Raiden/Sunny all had their stories wrapped up and there's no more stories to tell after MGS4. You make it sound like MGS3 and Peace Walker don't exist.
2. Wolf, I hate to say it, but it's been confirmed: You're not a Metal Gear fan. Not being interested in buying a PSP is one thing, but if you actually own the game and can able to resist playing it, you're just not a fan of the series. Privileges revoked!!!
3. Don't tell me about "poor Kojima." Poor Kojima is on the board of directors of one of the largest video game publishers in the world. He's stated in many interviews that since MGS3 he's always intended to hand the games off to one of his proteges, but once development gets started he can't help but jump back into the hot seat. Considering how far out of left field Peace Walker came, it seems like that was something he really wanted to do himself.
Extended Trailer coming in:
METAL GEAR RISING REVENGEANCE - VGA TRAILER Website Ver.
@Vivi: found the article i was taking about:
Word for word from Shigenobu Matsuyama:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...sing-interviewQuote:
However, with MGS Rising, the key word is zan-datsu. "Zan" means to kick and cut and "datsu" means to take. We will have the stealth element as well. It's not the stealth you normally have played in MGS. It will be purely based on action. I call it the Hunting Stealth. You will be the hunter. You will hide because you don't want to be spotted by the enemy.
What wasn't wrapped up from MGS3, admittedly I've never played Peace Walker (I have to wait until February 2012 for the HD collection European release)? Seriously enlighten me because I can't think of anything they missed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
I did however think of a loose end from MGS4, Doctor Madnar conveniently fixes Raiden & this is seemingly passed over in the story . I get a feeling from the new Rising trailer with all the cyborg enhancement flying about he's probably involved in some way.
Personally I'm more concerned about the complete change in story and time period. The game play looks wonderful and the trailer is ridiculous, almost to the point of self parody. I love it. I am excited for this game. :bigsmile:
Dunno about the title really either. Revengance? Oh well, at least it's not Dream Drop Distance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shattered Dreamer
What caused the rift between Big Boss and his comrades.
Why he chose armed resistance and non-hegemony as his interpretation of the Boss' Will.
Why the bipedal design for a nuclear-equipped tank came back into prominence.
Through what means did Outer Heaven start.
What did Big Boss do after the events of Operation Snake Eater?
What was the deal with The Boss' space mission.
How involved was Otacon's grandfather with his research hinted at in Snake Eater.
Peace Walker deals with all of these things. I don't think the issue is hanging plot threads, though. Certainly you don't need loose ends to make a sequel, and it usually damages the overall quality of the plot when there are gaping unanswered questions. My issue with continuing MGS4 is that all of the characters have finality to their stories. Furthermore, the mindset that caused the world to be the way it was in MGS was at an end. There will probably still be wars, but there's no longer a need for soldiers like Jack and David. With Big Boss, you got a lot of history and material developers can really get their hands dirty with. And there's overall a lot more that can be done with the Cold War, Call of Duty: Black Ops and Peace Walker being great examples of that.
It's Kojima, if it has Metal Gear in the title he's involved on some level, same as when Portable OPS and Ac!d were developed, he still overlooked the product for quality assurance since he is still fuming over Snake's Revenge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi22He's not writing this game, or directing it. Another developer entirely is actually making the thing. How is that not letting him move on?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
He does it because the fans and staff beg him to return. Yes, he could walk away whenever he wanted and tell the fans to "suck it" but he's too nice and MGS is his baby and he can't quit it. That's why we love him because he's not some total self centered "artist" creator who whines when he doesn't get his way like the RE creator or DoA's creator, and ridicules the fans for not appreciating their work. He wants to quit but he won't because the fans keep demanding, so who's really being selfish here?Quote:
And honestly, here's the problem I have with fans crying out to let him move on at this point: he can move on at any time. He doesn't have to make another MGS title for he rest of his life. Konami can certainly ask him to, but he's one of the only well known Japanese game designers who could go off on his own and be swimming in investors to start up a new developer who hasn't already done it. If he's sick of doing MGS games, he certainly has the clout to outright tell Konami he's going to do something else or walk, and probably have them bend over backwards to keep him if only because they have no one else. Kojima is the only one over there who has been consistently putting out titles that are actually worth playing for years.
Considering they are prequels and one was pretty much answered pretty well with MGS4, that's really lousy evidence for a post MGS4 story. Also Sunny and Otacon are pretty boring on their own and only work as foils to Snake and Raiden. Snake's days are numbered and most fans whined when Kojima hinted about killing him in MGS4, so I can't imagine anyone would let him do Snake's final days unless the twist is that Snake reverses all of his problems through the magic of nanomachines.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
Raiden is getting a game and I don't care about that, but I was never interested in Raiden so if the franchise wishes to continue with him, that's fine but I'll probably stop paying attention. Yet seriously, Big Boss' story is already getting convulated with Portable OPS and Peace Walker. How many more Prequel/interquels does the man need? It's kind of hard to make them compelling when you know how it all ends. I can see him finally doing some remakes for Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake, but I believe he's already said he's not interested in doing anything like that.
Says the man who won't play Portable OPS and has never talked once about Ac!d or Ghost Babel. I'm calling your credentials out. :p Besides my reluctance to play Peace Walker stems from my lukewarm feelings about MGS4's gameplay. I love MGS, but I'm not sure if I could deal with another semi-3rd person shooter entry, especially dealing with my fave character. Whereas you rejoice with every new entry, I see it as another entry that holds the potential to tarnish the franchise for me.Quote:
2. Wolf, I hate to say it, but it's been confirmed: You're not a Metal Gear fan. Not being interested in buying a PSP is one thing, but if you actually own the game and can able to resist playing it, you're just not a fan of the series. Privileges revoked!!!
As I said to Vivi22, he does it because he's asked to. He's tried unsuccessfully to move away from the series before. Does he still love MGS? Hell yeah, I won't deny that, but he's also voiced that he wants to make something new (Project Ogre certainly has me intrigued, especially since its supposedly very different from his other games). This isn't about him being unhappy with MGS, this is just about him being bored and probably realizing like some of us have, that MGS as a narrative has run its course, and unlike other long lived franchises, is actual an awesome roller coaster ride from beginning to end. Why risk running a great franchise into the ground? Just let MGS4 finish Snake and Big Boss's stories, and let MGS take its place as one of the greatest franchises to ever grace gaming. Its played its course as a story and as an innovator in gaming, now its just about self-indulgence. I mean Peace Walker may be a fantastic game, but it doesn't change that it really didn't have to be made.Quote:
3. Don't tell me about "poor Kojima." Poor Kojima is on the board of directors of one of the largest video game publishers in the world. He's stated in many interviews that since MGS3 he's always intended to hand the games off to one of his proteges, but once development gets started he can't help but jump back into the hot seat. Considering how far out of left field Peace Walker came, it seems like that was something he really wanted to do himself.
George Washington was asked to become President for life, but he chose to step down, which set him apart from any other president the U.S. ever had, why can't MGS be the "George Washington" of gaming and bow out on a high note, instead of running the risk of being run into the ground?
[QUOTE=Bolivar;3042083]
What caused the rift between Big Boss and his comrades.[quote]
MGS4 pretty much says this and so does Portable OPS to some extent
Quote:
Why he chose armed resistance and non-hegemony as his interpretation of the Boss' Will.
MGS4 covered that...
MG, MG2, and MGS1 could tell you that. MGS4 revealed why Big Boss wanted it.Quote:
Why the bipedal design for a nuclear-equipped tank came back into prominence.
Portable OPS, MGS1, and MGS4 tell you enough about this to get the hint.Quote:
Through what means did Outer Heaven start.
Portable OPS, MGS1, MGS4, and MG2:SS all tell you what he's been doing since Snake Eater.Quote:
What did Big Boss do after the events of Operation Snake Eater?
I honestly don't think anyone cared about what was ultimately a throw away statement in MGS3.Quote:
What was the deal with The Boss' space mission.
Enough to spawn MGS1 and other MGS sequels, not to mention enough to kind of retcon Dr. Madnar as the original creator of Metal Gear but then again Portable OPS did this as well. http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/eoff_smilies/wink.gifQuote:
How involved was Otacon's grandfather with his research hinted at in Snake Eater.
So why did Peace Walker have to be made again when most of these questions can be answered by other entries in the franchise? As I said, it's just self-gratification at this point from a story standpoint. The series has answered most of the questions and at this point we're simply just fleshing out stuff and littering the franchise with more retcons.
I look forward to Peace Walker ! I am not however sure they should explore Big Boss any further. Big Boss has gone from being "the elephant in the room" as regards Solid Snake's past to within 2 games being painted as in fact the hero all along who stood up for what he believed in. When you consider this, diving further into Big Boss is only going to do more bad then good, he went from Hero to Villain & back to Hero.Quote:
Originally Posted by BolivarQuote:
Originally Posted by Shattered Dreamer
What caused the rift between Big Boss and his comrades.
Why he chose armed resistance and non-hegemony as his interpretation of the Boss' Will.
Why the bipedal design for a nuclear-equipped tank came back into prominence.
Through what means did Outer Heaven start.
What did Big Boss do after the events of Operation Snake Eater?
What was the deal with The Boss' space mission.
How involved was Otacon's grandfather with his research hinted at in Snake Eater.
Peace Walker deals with all of these things. I don't think the issue is hanging plot threads, though. Certainly you don't need loose ends to make a sequel, and it usually damages the overall quality of the plot when there are gaping unanswered questions. My issue with continuing MGS4 is that all of the characters have finality to their stories. Furthermore, the mindset that caused the world to be the way it was in MGS was at an end. There will probably still be wars, but there's no longer a need for soldiers like Jack and David. With Big Boss, you got a lot of history and material developers can really get their hands dirty with. And there's overall a lot more that can be done with the Cold War, Call of Duty: Black Ops and Peace Walker being great examples of that.
Even though Big Boss was fighting against Major Zero & the Patriots at the back of it all along the way he became a power hungry ego maniac who sought to create a haven for soldiers. This point in Big Boss' mythology should stay a black spot to the MGS fan base! Like it or not Kojima & co, in light of the hero created through MGS3 & MGS4, wouldn't present Big Boss as a straight up villain & would try to go the anti-hero route. If they do that the end result would cheapen the life experience that made Solid Snake the man he was in MGS & instead make him into basically to put it bluntly an emo with major Daddy issues. It would also damage the moment at the end of MGS4 when Big Boss admits his mistakes.
Regardless of what direction the MG series goes next I think Solid Snake & Big Boss should play no further active part.
Side bar: I thought the story telling in COD: Black Ops was very poor. All the Cold War setting did was lead to interesting levels to play from that period of history. The story telling in the Modern Warfare series is alot better.
Truth behind Rising Video Released:
INTERVIEW : The Truth Behind RISING - YouTube
Pretty interesting watch. Kinda long though.
That interview now has me very very worried about this game. One of Platinum's people said it best, Platinum focus on making things look cool & Kojima & Co go for realism. Putting these 2 together screams clustersmurf to me. On the bright side, if it's terrible Kojima will definitely make MGS5 :lol:
That's not really what I took from that comment at all, especially since they were talking specifically about how they go about making cutscenes if I'm not mistaken (which admittedly I may be after a 14 hour work day). But they were also pretty clear about saying that Platinum Games is not only out to do what they do best, but that they have the support of Kojima Productions in that regard as well. Considering everything in the trailer was basically classic Platinum Games style, I'm really not too worried. They're definitely on my short list of developers that I would trust completely to make something mind blowingly fun these days.
The comment was indeed made about cut scenes but after watching that I think it rings true from top to bottom. I applaud Kojima for approaching Platinum Games when his "winning team" creatively hit a brick wall. But, trusting the MG series to a development team without a big series of their own merit is a Grand Canyon sized leap of faith & I hope it doesn't blow up in Kojima's face.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi22
I know I've said this before but you know the guys who founded Platinum Games worked on, among other things, the Resident Evil series, Devil May Cry, Viewtiful Joe, Okami, and a bunch of other titles, not to mention that Bayonetta and Vanquish were quite well received, and while Bayonetta isn't my thing I'd say it was still great at what it did while Vanquish is ont of my favourite games of this console generation.
Not to even mention that a lot of people who worked for Clover before it was shut down moved on to Platinum Games as I understand it. I don't think you can have a better resume than basically creating some of the most popular and acclaimed series that Capcom put out in the last 15 years. These guys are definitely not new to the industry and have a lot of experience working on great franchises.
My buddy Gus was invited to chat with Kojima at Konami earlier this week about this game. Here's his writeup.
He also thought there was stealth in MGS4, when in practice it turned out to be a ho-hum third person shooter which let you press X to lie on the floor.Quote:
Originally Posted by nirojan
But stealth is still the most effective way to play and the game rewards you the most for that style.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Manus
I guess I should've clarified my first point. I actually expressly say I don't think there should be post-MGS4 stories because all those characters have finality in that game, and there's a limited amount to their "fill in the blanks" tales, although Raiden in Area 51 rescuing Sunny is one to see. I'm just saying the comments that we should give MGS a rest because Snake/Otacon/Sunny have their stories wrapped up ignores the other timeline in the franchise, arguably the better one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf
But Modern Warfare doesn't have storytelling! It's a collection of random missions loosely tied together by dialogue on loading screens. The "twist" in the second game had no justification at all, but even if you read between the lines for its explanation, it's still not plausible. And by "series" I hope you mean 1 & 2 because 3's campaign is horrible.Quote:
I thought the story telling in COD: Black Ops was very poor. All the Cold War setting did was lead to interesting levels to play from that period of history. The story telling in the Modern Warfare series is alot better.
Black Ops, on the other hand, had a long of awesome moments from the Cold War setting and they weren't afraid to allow the main character to speak. It was a story much more revolved around its main character, and even his comrades each got epic moments of their own. I'm not saying it's on par with Coppola or Stone, but it was certainly a fun adventure that showed how much you can do with this source material.
How would you know?Quote:
Originally Posted by WK
Again, how would you know how difficult it was to make Peace Walker compelling? Also, are you saying MGS3 wasn't compelling!?Quote:
How many more Prequel/interquels does the man need? It's kind of hard to make them compelling when you know how it all ends.
I play MGS because of the vision, quality, and trademark style Kojima brings to his games. It's why it only took me about 4 minutes to realize Twin Snakes is not for me.Quote:
Says the man who won't play Portable OPS and has never talked once about Ac!d or Ghost Babel.
I really don't think so. As I've mentioned, he's said in interviews that he jumps in after his staff already have the project going. Also, I think I speak for most MGS fans that I was legitimately surprised when Peace Walker and Rising were announced.Quote:
As I said to Vivi22, he does it because he's asked to.
That sounds like you think a game needs a reason to be made in order for you to accept its existence. But again, like I said at the end of my response to Shattered Dreamer, I don't think it's an issue of hanging plot threads. After all, questions might be better left unanswered, as that was how a lot was supposed to be left in MGS2. But Kojima's proved through SE and PW that there's a lot of awesome things you can do with that back story. Do I want there to be 5,000 games about Big Boss? No. I agree that David should get some rest, but I would absolutely love to see another BB title. I mean the last game can be played in its entirety co-operatively, that's a pretty huge deviation for the franchise. And I'm craving a new Metal Gear Online outing because of just how good it was in MGS4, especially with their post-launch content.Quote:
So why did Peace Walker have to be made again when most of these questions can be answered by other entries in the franchise?
Because George Washington was a free mason who worshipped satan and wanted to create a doorway to hell. Obviously.Quote:
George Washington was asked to become President for life, but he chose to step down, which set him apart from any other president the U.S. ever had, why can't MGS be the "George Washington" of gaming and bow out on a high note, instead of running the risk of being run into the ground?
Well that certainly makes more sense, and we could have had that Raiden plot had they decided not to change Rising.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
Cause I played Portable OPS and despite your feelings and the fact Kojima did work on the title, it is canonical. The MGS Database that came with MGS4 could also tell you if you did enough reading and its not like MGS4 giant reveal about the Patriots and the rise of Big Boss speech by Eva didn't certainly complicate matters. So I guess my answer is that since I've played most of the series, my evaluation is that a twist boss from the first game suddenly being transformed into a tragic hero figure that is largely been fighting a secret covert war against the ideals of a former friend all based on the memory of a mentor who died tragically, is kind of a big leap, especially when you consider its mostly been introduced in the last few years of the franchises lifespan.Quote:
How would you know?Quote:
Originally Posted by WK
Its not about MGS3, its about the fact these games are being made in-between other entries and pieces to a narrative that is mostly complete. I'm pretty damn sure Peace Walker's story is fantastic but seriously, how much more tragic and badass does BB need to be? We got the point with MGS3 and MGS4, we really don't need MPO or PW to spell it out for us. For the most part, the console entries have pretty much left the player with more than enough knowledge about BB's life and reasoning. At this point were making sequels for the sake of it, but we forgive the MGS team and Kojima because the quality is superb.Quote:
Again, how would you know how difficult it was to make Peace Walker compelling? Also, are you saying MGS3 wasn't compelling!?Quote:
How many more Prequel/interquels does the man need? It's kind of hard to make them compelling when you know how it all ends.
So you're just going to ignore an entry that is canonical because Kojima didn't personally create every aspect of it? Tells me you're more of a Kojima fan than an MGS fan. Where was this sentiment when the Compilation of VII was being built without Sakeguchi?Quote:
I play MGS because of the vision, quality, and trademark style Kojima brings to his games. It's why it only took me about 4 minutes to realize Twin Snakes is not for me.Quote:
Says the man who won't play Portable OPS and has never talked once about Ac!d or Ghost Babel.
Not from what I've read, he usually mentions the team asks him to come back or check things they've done cause they ask for advice, and before he knows it, he's now taking over the project because everyone wants him to and he's given so much advise and helped craft so many elements he's practically directing the project anyway. As I said, it's not that he hates MGS, but he's more than once said he would like to move on, and has even mentioned that he's tried to kill Snake off for good so he wouldn't have to make any more. His tune has changed lately as he's accepted his fate to be the "MGS Guy" which is nice, but yeah, I'd rather see what else the man can do. He's a very innovative thinker and it would be interesting to see him apply his quirky sense of style and innovation to other genres or new IPs rather than watch him to continue to reinvent the same series over and over again.Quote:
I really don't think so. As I've mentioned, he's said in interviews that he jumps in after his staff already have the project going. Also, I think I speak for most MGS fans that I was legitimately surprised when Peace Walker and Rising were announced.Quote:
As I said to Vivi22, he does it because he's asked to.
Not so much a game, as much as a story. Part of the reason I've always been against direct sequels to FF titles stems not just from my belief of what FF means, but also just the rational realization that there really is no reason for a sequel because the original actually covers it all. My feeling is that MGS4 really did close the franchise, yes their is a lot of potential for prequels but I also feel they will dilute the franchise as it becomes just the episodic misadventures of everyone's favorite tragic hero, as opposed to a strong narrative that continues to expand the characters in meaningful ways. Making sequels for the sake of simple demand, is not the same as making a sequel because there is more to say. While I'm sure Peace Walker will easily expand BB and the cast in more meaningful ways, it is more likely due to Kojima's craftsmanship rather than there actually being something relevant to say.Quote:
That sounds like you think a game needs a reason to be made in order for you to accept its existence. But again, like I said at the end of my response to Shattered Dreamer, I don't think it's an issue of hanging plot threads. After all, questions might be better left unanswered, as that was how a lot was supposed to be left in MGS2. But Kojima's proved through SE and PW that there's a lot of awesome things you can do with that back story. Do I want there to be 5,000 games about Big Boss? No. I agree that David should get some rest, but I would absolutely love to see another BB title. I mean the last game can be played in its entirety co-operatively, that's a pretty huge deviation for the franchise. And I'm craving a new Metal Gear Online outing because of just how good it was in MGS4, especially with their post-launch content.Quote:
So why did Peace Walker have to be made again when most of these questions can be answered by other entries in the franchise?
As for MGO or another entry with amusing gameplay, I'm not actually opposed to it. I'm not so much against the MGS game series being expanded, as much as I'm against the MGS narrative being expanded. MPO and MGS4 kind of brought in some stuff I didn't care for about the world or some of the characters and it's this elements that have made me hesitant to see the world of SS/BB be expanded, because I feel it occasionally slips into some bad ideas that kind of undermines the story.
Someone has been watching the History Channel ;)Quote:
Because George Washington was a free mason who worshipped satan and wanted to create a doorway to hell. Obviously.Quote:
George Washington was asked to become President for life, but he chose to step down, which set him apart from any other president the U.S. ever had, why can't MGS be the "George Washington" of gaming and bow out on a high note, instead of running the risk of being run into the ground?
I've never played nor did I approve of any game in the compilation!!! But still, even you have to admit that FFVII was not the vision of a single creator. Sakaguchi only co-wrote the original story, in addition to his oversight as a producer. But in the PlayStation underground preview he very much stressed that this was Kitase's game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
You know man I really understand where you're coming from, I feel like this is definitely what happened to the Song of Ice and Fire series and it's a real shame. I will admit my thing is partially for selfish reasons, I really like these games, the stories always make me go "holy smurf" and I enjoy them from a gameplay perspective as a game I put back in the tray as soon as I'm done; I like going back and trying new equipment, new play styles and new difficulties. But that's really been something that I started doing with 3 and 4. I would do it with Peace Walker but the game essentially has an entire VR missions-like game packed inside, and I'm still not done with them.Quote:
My feeling is that MGS4 really did close the franchise, yes their is a lot of potential for prequels but I also feel they will dilute the franchise as it becomes just the episodic misadventures of everyone's favorite tragic hero, as opposed to a strong narrative that continues to expand the characters in meaningful ways.
But I'm sick of the group of elitists who hated MGS4 so much that they argue that it was never supposed to be made. I don't think you're like this, but The Snake Soup recently released an awesome video about MGS2 and reality, but they devote a big portion to how MGS3 and later 4 were never meant to exist and kind of ends in a way that makes you think that it was the entire point of the video.
Yeah, and that's another thing that was cool about MGO: Kojima has stated he doesn't like multiplayer games, so this effectively was a younger team's chance to take Metal Gear and do something different. It didnt' encroach on the story and, oddly for a Japanese developer, brought a lot of cool things to multiplayer that Western shooter devs are just implementing now. They did a real good job.Quote:
As for MGO or another entry with amusing gameplay, I'm not actually opposed to it. I'm not so much against the MGS game series being expanded, as much as I'm against the MGS narrative being expanded.
IT AIN'T HISTORY, IT'S STILL GOIN ON TODAY, G!Quote:
Someone has been watching the History Channel ;)
Rising's lead platform is the PS3!
Metal Gear Solid Rising Lead Platform is PlayStation 3 -- Andriasang.com
If you guys remember back to Bayonetta when the 360 was the lead platform the PS3 version was the WORST PORT EVAR and since then Platinum has been developing with PS3 as their lead platform (see Vanquish). Seems they'll be continuing their trend.
^ Good move, it seems like a lot of the big devs have switched over to this model. It's nice to know if I ever pick this game up on the cheap, it won't be a shoddy port.
Also wanted to say in that "Truth of Metal Gear Rising" video, it really seems like Yoji Shinkawa had a big "WTF is this Bullish!?" moment when he saw the changes with Rising.
I do agree its not the vision of a single creator, but I do feel that Sakeguchi's touch is what is largely missing from Kitase's games over the years. Kitase never did quite get the hang of making games charming like the 'Guchi" could. The contrast of charm between VII to VIII to IX is kind of astonishing. With VII being true to form for the franchise, VIII being devoid of charm and played more straight, and IX cranking the charm up to 11. :vivi: :steiner:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
No, I'm definetly not one of those people. I mean MGS3 s not only my fave MGS game, its pretty much tied with Chrono Trigger as my favorite game of all time. I may not have liked MGS4 as much as the rest of the series but I felt it did a better job than imaginable of actually tying up most of the loose ends, and it still has some fantastic gaming moments like Prague, the Metal Gear fight, and the final boss fight with Ocelot, I just felt the improvements to the gun play undermined the games stealth roots but its not like its a deal breaker, it was just another element that kept it from usurping MGS1, MGS3, and MG2:SS as my favorite games in the franchise, though I do feel Peace Walker has a fairly good chance of joining said ranks.Quote:
You know man I really understand where you're coming from, I feel like this is definitely what happened to the Song of Ice and Fire series and it's a real shame. I will admit my thing is partially for selfish reasons, I really like these games, the stories always make me go "holy smurf" and I enjoy them from a gameplay perspective as a game I put back in the tray as soon as I'm done; I like going back and trying new equipment, new play styles and new difficulties. But that's really been something that I started doing with 3 and 4. I would do it with Peace Walker but the game essentially has an entire VR missions-like game packed inside, and I'm still not done with them.
But I'm sick of the group of elitists who hated MGS4 so much that they argue that it was never supposed to be made. I don't think you're like this, but The Snake Soup recently released an awesome video about MGS2 and reality, but they devote a big portion to how MGS3 and later 4 were never meant to exist and kind of ends in a way that makes you think that it was the entire point of the video.
I do understand most fans sentiments that "as long as they are the same fantastic quality, who am I to argue?" because the man is good at his job, but I feel the continuation of the story will dilute the narrative and in the case of Portable OPS, undermine some of the story elements. It's a shame what MGPO did to Grey Fox's character, which was a shame cause the game did a lot things right.
And I feel that is fine to do, its only when they start talking about adding real chapters to the series that I get bothered cause I feel the narrative is great and rather complete.Quote:
Yeah, and that's another thing that was cool about MGO: Kojima has stated he doesn't like multiplayer games, so this effectively was a younger team's chance to take Metal Gear and do something different. It didnt' encroach on the story and, oddly for a Japanese developer, brought a lot of cool things to multiplayer that Western shooter devs are just implementing now. They did a real good job.
History Channel: We know that Kojima is the creator of the stealth action series Metal Gear, but were those games so good, because Kojima recieved help from aliens and their advanced technology? Find out tonight on Ancient Aliens, right after American Pickers and followed by Monster Quest. ;)Quote:
IT AIN'T HISTORY, IT'S STILL GOIN ON TODAY, G!
I like 9 as much as next guy but by no mean it was more charming or VII and VIII were devoid of charm, I think VII and VIII have far more engaging worlds while 9 in the second half become more dungeon oriented(desert and such).Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf KannoI do agree its not the vision of a single creator, but I do feel that Sakeguchi's touch is what is largely missing from Kitase's games over the years. Kitase never did quite get the hang of making games charming like the 'Guchi" could. The contrast of charm between VII to VIII to IX is kind of astonishing. With VII being true to form for the franchise, VIII being devoid of charm and played more straight, and IX cranking the charm up to 11. :vivi: :steiner:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
Different taste, but I never said VII was not charming, I said it was standard in charm for the series and VIII was devoid of charm, being more serious and with less humor than the other titles in the franchise. FFX, XII, and XIII are not exactly charming to me either but I still love XII and I actually like VIII, I just don't find it charming.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinGundamI like 9 as much as next guy but by no mean it was more charming or VII and VIII were devoid of charm, I think VII and VIII have far more engaging worlds while 9 in the second half become more dungeon oriented(desert and such).Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf KannoI do agree its not the vision of a single creator, but I do feel that Sakeguchi's touch is what is largely missing from Kitase's games over the years. Kitase never did quite get the hang of making games charming like the 'Guchi" could. The contrast of charm between VII to VIII to IX is kind of astonishing. With VII being true to form for the franchise, VIII being devoid of charm and played more straight, and IX cranking the charm up to 11. :vivi: :steiner:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar