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>>> Are this series dead or something?..
I never had the chance to play one of these games (with any luck i just played some Xenogears).
All I know is that became fairly popular because of that Kos-mos girl and their good FF like graphics.
Since I never played it I`d like to see a new Xenosaga game for the PS3 or something..:luca:
I'm not sure either, as I lost interest after the second game. I thought, though, that the series was wrapped up between the games and anime. Am I wrong in thinking that?
Namco decided the series wasn't making enough profit around the second game, and let them make the third just so they could end the story in a proper way or something. They initially planned to make 6 games.
Not the biggest loss in the world, in either case.
Yes it is! It's a catastrophy of massive magnitude! =(Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
It was all because the second game was such a screw-up. If they only hadn't changed the character designs in such a dumb way... and if only they had kept the same (or a similar) battle system. The first and third games are both absolutely brilliant, but the second one is pretty bad and something I played only because of the story.
But yeah, the series is pretty much finished. It's, sadly, very unlikely that we'll ever see anything more of it.
I tried the first game and the battle system was terrible. I hear the second is even worse, but the third is actually sort of good. The entire series was a huge loss for Namco anyway, it's prefectly understandable that they didn't want to spend money on three more games which could potentially make them lose even more.
Totally disagree about the first game. I loved its battle system. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
And if they hadn't wasted money on changing the graphics and such for the second game, it would have been a lot cheaper to produce that title... plus the game would most likely have made more money. So I still blame Xenosaga 2 for ruining everything.
I was all hyped and excited to buy the first one because I loved Xenogears. But then I went to my friend's house, who had bought the game already, and started to play...and well...those freaking CUTSCENES! I mean come on. Final Fantasy X had some long cutscenes. Metal Gear Solid 4 had some really long cutscenes, but Xenosaga Episode 1 was just mind boggling with how far it took cutscene length.
Even still, I had planned to play them all anyway one day but then they changed the way everyone looked and then announced that they were only going to do three games instead of five so I just lost interest.
Speaking of which, did they really have nothing to do with the story of Xenogears? I remember beating Xenogears and at the end it saying "End of Episode V" which made me like to think Xenosaga would fill in those prior episodes, tee hee.
>>> Monolith Soft work for nintendo now right?..:luca:
Well, the cutscene-length is a turn off for some. But as long as you don't mind that (I certainly don't), the first and third games are both great.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKA
And no, Xenosaga doesn't really have anything to do with Xenogears. Well... there are some referrences and a few similarities, actually. But the story itself has nothing to do with Xenogears.
As far as I know, there were actually plans for prequels and sequels to Xenogears too. But they were also canceled.
I'm pretty sure they do, yeah. Or else we probably wouldn't have seen KOS-MOS as a character in Super Robot Taisen og Saga: Endless Frontier.Quote:
Originally Posted by black orb
Unless I'm mistaken, it all stems from the developement hell xenogears went through. Fom what i've heard, xenogears was forced out the door because it was taking far too long to finish, thus the infamous second disc of cutscene hell. Square shut em down for the sequels, and the majority of the team left and formed monolith. Problem is, the original story line for xenogears was supposed to be a six parter, and with the break from square the legality of them doing direct sequels or prequels was questionable to say the least.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKA
It seems like they chopped up the lore from xenogears so they wouldn't have to start from scratch, but the storyline itself bears little resemblance to the initial game. I always looked at it like two kids playing seperately with the same action figures. Might be the some of the same names and locations, but it's a different plot altogether.
I haven't played Xenosaga ep 1 but from what I've read the overall structure of the plot closely parallels the early events alluded to in Xenogears and elaborated on in the Perfect Works compendium (way before Cain and Abel). The devs seem to claim it was a "reimagining" of the original six episode timeline. It would've been crazy to see how they pulled off Episode V.
I've only played the intro of Xenosaga ep 3 (long before I played Xenogears) but I was a little impressed. I want to get to these games eventually, just really hesitant because of the ep 2 backlash.
While they made 3 games I think it was suppose to be just the first two parts of their original vision. In the original trailer for the first game they showed some cut scenes that never made the game. Those did make it somewhere in the middle of the second game though.
Overall the biggest problem with the games was that they had no clue how to make a game. They kept changing graphic models, battle systems and pretty much everything instead of sticking with something and building on it for the next game. Xenosaga 1 had an insane amount of cut scenes up front for the story and then towards the end the trend became damn near the exact opposite. I liked the battle system for the first game as it was very free to let me create the characters how I wanted. It was probably too much for most though. There was also a lack of dungeon music if I am not mistaken (I didn't mind or notice).
The second game they went totally insane and jacked up every single aspect. I almost think they had meetings with the topic of "How can we make this worse?" Horrible music, worst graphics, worse voice acting, God AWFUL battle system and probably some other stuff.
The third game finally got it all right. It struck the balance of story to gameplay. It had a nice simple battle system and leveling system. They had a supplemental database to fill in the details in the background instead of wasting money with expositioning it all through cut scenes. Also for the first time in the series the Mechs were useful and fun. I think they were used in the second game but I am pretty sure it was annoying and bad like everything else. In the first game you never had to use them and I never did.
A great example of how to do this whole thing correctly is the .hack series. Multiple games using the same engine and just building off of each other to reduce costs/spread costs over the production of multiple games. They probably spent more time upfront planning to make sure everything they wanted was set in place first then went to work. Humorously enough, both series were published by Namco-Bandai games :/
Many dungeons didn't have any actual music - just some background sounds, or completely silent. As unusual as that is, I also didn't mind at all. In fact, I sometimes prefered it that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by edczxcvbnm
It's been years since I have been a regular video game player but since this thread is about a group of games from when I was a regular video game player I figure I'll make a reply.
As others have said xenosaga came about because square did not want to continue the xenogears series so the people who made the game left so they could make the series they wanted.
Xenogears and Xenosaga take place in separate universes but they both have similar story points because they both originated from the same idea.
Think of it this way. Xenogears was the first attempt at creating the story they wanted to tell and Xenosaga was just the second attempt at telling the story they wanted to tell.
People can try to blame the xenosaga ep. II for the failure of the series but the real culprit was Takahashi himself (or the guy who created the series).
Takahashi should of been an author instead of a video game creator. He had great ideas but at the same time was a terrible businessman. He was not able to meet deadlines in any of the games he made and with the graphics that xenosaga had he went way over budget as well I believe (which is why he was removed from the project).
The xeno series could have worked if Takahashi had decent business sense. But since he didn't both his attempts at telling his grand story failed.
>>> They should have made a book instead of a game then ..:luca:
Or an animated series. Not a game, in either case!
They made the first Xenosaga game into an adapted series and it was smurfing terrible.
Yep. Basically all that was was them taking all the cut scenes from the game and putting them together to make a show. It's not spoken in English either. I'm sure there are tons of people who have put the English version of the cut scenes up on you tube to form the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by edczxcvbnm
Thread topic aside, I don't think Xenogears would have worked as well if it were a novel, and not a video game with all the artwork, the music, and the overall presentation. I know you can do a lot more with novels, as it taps directly into the imagination, but I think the uniqueness of games as a medium is what made my playthrough of Xenogears so special.
>>> If stuff like Harry Potter became a sucess, anything can..:luca:
No, anything can't become a success because Harry Potter did.
Never played Xenosaga. Is it good? It must be to get edczxcvbnm and darkcrono to come out of hiding to post in this thread about it.
I personally love Xenosaga; it is one of my favorite video game series. The shift in graphics and voice acting from game to game kind of stinks with the second game being a low point in that respect. However, I think the story and the characters in all three game were amazing, and that's what I look for most in an rpg. The cutscenes (especially in the first game) are extremely long and frequent, but I personally don't mind that in a game as long as the content is good, and I never felt bored from the cutscenes in the game. I also liked that you could see your enemies wandering the area, and depending on how you walk into them or they walk into you, certain conditions and advantages are set. I can see why many people don't necessarily like the games though.
It's one of those "you either love it or hate it" kind of games. Personally, I love it. Episode 2 being the exception - I only endured that game because of the story. The battle system and change in graphics are kinda terrible in episode 2, sadly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Murder
But the series is still playworthy, no doubt, if you ask me. Despite the second game, I can honestly say that it's one of my personal favourite series.
The main factor that will decide whenever you enjoy the series or not, is whenever you can enjoy really long cutscenes or not. Because these games have a lot of them.
The Xeno games are 90% story and 10% gameplay for the most part. Those who play rpg's for the gameplay will probably want to pass on the xeno games because the gameplay is average at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Murder
However if story is what you mainly like to focus on in an rpg than you should definitely check both xenogears and xenosaga out. Both have stories much deeper than pretty much any other rpg out there (though the xenogears story is a little better than the xenosaga story in my opinion).
If both the gameplay and story are important to you in an rpg you should check the games out as well. You may like it or you may not but it is worth a look.
Well, I just replayed Xenosaga Episode III a few months ago so I have a fresh brand new perspective on it. I really like the story but the worst part of the game is easily the main protagonist. WTF you might ask? Well let me break it down for you:
Shion is in an eternal abusive relationship. She desparatly seeks the approval of some guy. Why they had a relationship in the first place I couldn't tell you. They clearly explain the motivations of the guy but Shion? No such logic can be found. The fact that he is dead never stops her from pinning over him for YEARS. She wants to make this guy happy. Every motivation she has ever had is to that specific end and it is never anymore complicated than that until literally the final fight of the game. She is so smurfing annoying in this game as well. She plays a vital story role but I can't figure out why we are forced to endure her as the main character. She is everything wrong with how female characters in media are written.
Now that I have that out of the way, the story is awesome and the rest of the characters, secondary characters, antagonists and mythology are all very well developed and likable. Having said that the writing is kind of bad or symbolic for no real reason in an annoying way (I refer to the end as my prime eye rolling example where the ship, Elsa, grew wings making some reference to Wagner's Knight of the Swan which they blatantly tell us for no good reason ruining the intense moment). The writing is probably about average for a game and would have been fine if they didn't speak everything. Somethings are suppose to be internal monologue but there is nothing to indicate that it is...either that or everyone around these characters is deaf.
The first one I have played the first one multiple times (I really enjoyed the battle system for some reason...probably because I could abuse it during leveling). This game is very cinematic in its presentation. It can be a bit long and drawn out at times but over all it was interesting and provided a good set up for the final game.
Skip the second game. It is an abomination. Graphics are a step back from the first game, music is hideous, replaced voice actors with worse ones (they got the episode 1 cast back to do episode 3 because they realized how badly the smurfed up), a terrible battle system that was boring as hell (after about 1/4 of the game you get an ability to where you can win any battle by following a certain pattern...as long as your characters don't die in a hit and even then it would probably work). The story was more like a side character story than anything truly integral to the over arching plot. In episode III they give you a huge encyclopedia to fill you in on things as you go along that were never told in the games because Episode 3 was probably suppose to be more like episode 4 or something and the missing stuff sounded way better that what we got in 2. Skip this game and watch the cutscenes on youtube or something.
Episode II was so bad that Sephex still has never played the third one due to II leaving such a bad taste in his mouth.
Despite the short comings of the games, I thought the story was pretty good and rather engaging. I think the third game is the easiest to get into but they all have a long start up time and by that I mean it is an hour or two before you REALLY get to play the game. I think you also get more out of the series if you really enjoyed Xenogears.
Story wise the biggest issues all came up do to back stage bull trout. So much was going wrong in production, crew kept getting shuffled in and out, and it shows from game to game.
However, despide that, it still delivers an excelent story, and wraps up all that it needs to by the end, (even if there is still a lot to be explored). Episode 2, oddly enough, fixed the worst part of episode 1, it's Boost System for combat, despite the rest of it being pretty damn bad. (For the record, it's a game in which I liked teh story enough to keep going. The main focus is on two of the party members introduced last game, and the back story of one of the three big forces at work in the game, Dmitri Yuriev and the likes.) There is plenty very relevant to the main story of the three games, but on it's own not enough to warrent just that. The end of that game was a bit heart wrenching though. :p
But yes, spectacular series. At the very least check out 3 and read through their synapsis of the first two games when you have a smurf ton of time on your hands. :p
Despite the voice changes, I actually really liked Xenosaga 2. I thought the story was still great, and I really didn't mind the battle system. I understand why people don't like it, but I have never understood the utter hate people seem to have for it. I'm pretty sure I have never met anyone else that likes that game. Maybe I'm just easy to please when it comes to rpg's, haha. Oh well.
But... but I liked the episode 1 boost system! =OQuote:
Originally Posted by NeoCracker
Oh, and before I forget to mention it: Xenosaga 1 has the best and most awesome card game ever. It doesn't get much attention or any big role in the game - you can only play it in one place. But it's much cooler than the FF card games. It's more like an actual TCG. :greenie:
This. While I do slightly like Triple Triad more (but more for nostalgia reasons), the Xenosaga card game is really addicting and fun. (I also agree about liking the boost system, though I enjoy exploiting things like that in a game anyways.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultima Shadow
The boost system in one wound randomly smurf you at any given time. It was way more advantagous to the enemy then it was to you. It was 'use it the moment you have the opprotunity' or the boss smacks you twice.
2's added actual strategy to the game play. :
True that.Quote:
Originally Posted by black orb
That's what I was thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Murder
If you like human-like robots in your games, it doesn't get any better than Phantasy Star IV.
I just tried to play this again yesterday because it had been a while and I couldn't remember the combat very well. I'm definitely with the opponents of the boost system. It's worthless. And the pacing is so bad...ugh
I never really had any trouble with the boost system the 3 or 4 times I've played through the first game. For me it added a sense of strategy, saving up your boosts and knowing when to use or not use them. Really the exploitation of the system comes in when you save up those boost packs and wait until the final battle. Boosting plus the giant robot thing you can get (I can never remember it's name) make the final battle painfully easy. Once you start attacking you can make it to where that thing can never get a hit on you before it's dead if all goes well. I also enjoyed the little slot machine mechanic thing in battle (can't think of what to call it) made things fun. Maybe I'm just strange but 1 had my favorite battle system in the three games. Part of that could just be that it's my favorite of the series in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoCracker
The robot is Erde Kaiser.
The only time boosting was a problem is when I was under leveled and that is a result of me not understanding how to abuse the leveling up system. You give all of your points to the stats and keep boosting them. The only limit on the stats for each character is they cannot go higher than the highest in the overall party. By level 20 you can practically be a GOD in this game.
I took on the final boss at level 32 or 34 or something, doing this and he never got a turn. I obliterated him that fast because of my reckless abuse of the leveling system...that and I had Erde Kaiser which deals 9999 damage and the final boss only has 16000 HP. So I only need 6000 more damage before he could go and I accomplished that.
The boost might not have been all that strategic in one but it made it more fun and abusive for me. I used the boost system in two because it was part of my master strategy. Everyone at full HP and full boost? Good now lets all attack non-stop using the break that we learned. Battle didn't end? Start saving up the boost again and do it again. SSOOOOOOOOO Boring!
That was all of the other inherent problems with 2, not problems inherent in the Boost system. :p
I mean hell, it was virtually unchanged in from 2 to 3, they just fixed all the other problems. :p
That's right! I always want to call it Ehrgeiz for some reason. Well, I may have to play through these games again when summer hits in a few months and I'm out of school. I'm getting excited thinking about them again, haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by edczxcvbnm
I'm coming of out hiding too. And I am intoxicated right now! So here we go.Quote:
Originally Posted by edczxcvbnm
When I was skinnier and stuff, I actually bought Xenosaga II and tried to convince myself it was good. I knew this fact before purchasing the game, but I really was let down that Mitsuda's music wasn't in the game. The person who made the music in general was alright, but her stuff is better suited for what she normally does--anime.
But as for the game, the gameplay made no sense, and the story kind of derailed and made no sense to me. I don't remember it now because I haven't touched it since I beat it in 2005, but what I do remember is being seriously depressed while playing episode II. If I had a gun I would have blow my brains out. Okay, that's too harsh. But the fact remains that after I finished it, I never wanted to see a Xenosaga game ever again. edczxcvbnm let me borrow episode III after he beat it.
You know what I did with that game? I put in on top of my TV and scowled at it everyday until edczxcvbnm showed up at my apartment and admitted that I would never touch the game because I still felt like someone pissed in my mouth. Goign back to episode II, why did Momo's bow and arrow overpower KOS-MOS? Seriously. Why? That battle system sucked.
Anyway, I don't want to overstate my welcome, so here's my final thoughts:
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...5736678038.jpg
Episode 1 is still my favorite installment in the Trilogy. Cal it nostalgia or whatever but I recently went back and played Episode III and it's far from the masterpiece I used to think it was. Oh sure, upon your first or second playthrough it is pretty good. But I have the perspective of a guy who's played both EP1 and EP3 at least five times through and then several times part way.
Episode III is still a pretty good JRPG. It just isn't nearly as good as I had thought it was.
Episode II...well, Episode III gives you a complete summary of all the important things from there so just skip it.