Ivalice

All right, so Ivalice (the continent/world area/locale) is in a lot of Squeenix games. It's in FFT, FF12, Vagrant Story, and I guess any spin-off of of of them games there.

Why do you think there's been such a connection to the place that it gets revisited so often? Usually, the unnamed (and sometimes named) worlds in RPG's don't connect like this. It's actually pretty interesting, and I hope it leads into some sort of giant MMO thing eventually.

Mostly I just want to chill with Ashley Riot again I mean is this so bad to ask?

Reusing Ivalice was cool when it was just FFT and Vagrant story. Then they let FFTA2 and FF12 in on the party and I don't think so highly of it anymore.

In all honesty I really don't see what setting FF12 in Ivalice accomplished other than pissing me off.

I want more Vagrant Story. :mad2:

A lot of the stylistic elements were the same in the games; the non-hume species for example, or the style of music, and most importantly, the lack of noses.

Edit: perhpas it's an evolutionary thing. Maybe Ivalice just stinks really friggin' badly, so the residents had to evolve. Except for the banthas or whatever they are. Maybe they like the smell.

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Originally Posted by krissy

the lack of noses.

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Vagrant Story had noses! :)

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the non-hume species for example

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Which is interesting because FFT & Vagrant story featured neither of these, yet they have become central to the mythos of the Tag-Alongs. (Which is what I will officially be referring to FF12 & FFTA2 as from now on.)

I have really enjoyed all entries that involve Ivalice, most notably Vagrant Story and Final Fantasy 12. I hope they can make more games involving it.

I don't really notice the connection between the games, except for XII and the TA games since they feature similar races.

I think theme wise, a lot of the locales and music is very similar. Maybe it's because (with the exception of FF12) it is a rather medieval environment with magiks sprinkled throughout. If I remember right, Balthier shows up in the recent FFT editions, right? Him and Mustadio get into a fight on who's a cooler gun-guy?

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Vagrant Story had noses!

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Obviously VS took place before the War of the Skunks, after which the evolution began.

Tip your waitress ever'b'dy!

I can't see their deeper rationale behind it but maybe it's just laziness so they can borrow elements and put it down to common settings.

Balthier didn't really show up in FFT:WotL as anything other than an extra party member (much like Luso). He had a few lines of dialogue when you first encounter him, but he has zero bearing on the actual game. They just threw him in to add another aspect that made WotL worth purchasing if you already own FFT.

I see Ivalice as more of a thematic setting, where a mindset of moral ambiguity has lead to massive corruption and suffering. The main characters usually start off as a part of this mindset, but are eventually able to overcome its trappings and do the inherently right thing.

Personally I always love how a mythology carries over to other entries, especially if they're divided by hundreds or thousands of years. Like how the Magicite is very similar to the Zodiac Stones, of which there are also Zodiac Stones in the Ogre Battle saga. A lot of names and concepts also co-exist in both series, along with the theme I mentioned above, so I wouldn't be surprised if in Matsuno's head, all these games (Ivalice and Ogre Battle) existed on one world map, and we're just getting newer episodes of the latter under the guise of "Final Fantasy."

Ivalice would feel more correct if they didn't claim that inbetween ta2 and tactics all the non humes die.

Also it would be better with ponies.

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Originally Posted by Hypoallergenic Cactuar

Ivalice would feel more correct if they didn't claim that inbetween ta2 and tactics all the non humes die.

Also it would be better with ponies.

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Agree on the ponies, but I think genocide is completely feasible in the world of Ivalice.

Also what happens to all the technology?

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Originally Posted by Hypoallergenic Cactuar

Also what happens to all the technology?

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Tehnology goes all "poof"!

^ No, it gets lost, and Mustadio begins uncovering guns and you see sunken airships towards the end of the game. Western Ivalice in FFT is obviously supposed to be Dark Ages Europe, a culture not far separated from barbarism who just began uncovering the technology of foreign cultures which were far more advanced.

Is not the area in tactics supposed to be the same area that rosaria is in?

No, Rosaria's to the East, in between Tactics's Ivalice and FFXII's Ivalice. The rumors/menu notes that FFT's Ivalice had just lost a war to Rosaria, in the East. Which is a big reason why everything's so messed up.

so it's likely that tactics ivalice hasn't even seen any modern technology since the dynast king? is that right?

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

^ No, it gets lost, and Mustadio begins uncovering guns and you see sunken airships towards the end of the game. Western Ivalice in FFT is obviously supposed to be Dark Ages Europe, a culture not far separated from barbarism who just began uncovering the technology of foreign cultures which were far more advanced.

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Just messing around. :kakapo:

My, I just read through the entire 'chronological' history of Ivalice and now I am more convinced than ever that it is just part of SE's new mission to shoehorn as much of it's development into existing IP as possible. I don't see any possible justification for tying these games together other than the fact that they can. It almost feels like a fanfiction author thinking they are extra clever because they can put pen to paper for an extended length of time.

I kind of feel the same way. the stories have very little in common, and there is no visible linking between tactics and 12

Matsuno doesn't appear to be that kind of developer and at the very least, Tactics, TA1, XII, and Vagrant Story were all done under his supervision. They exist in the same world because that setting is a manifestation of his creativity and a mechanism through which he can tell the kind of stories and themes that he's known for. It seems you guys want a smoking gun, some kind of 1:1 connection to blatantly pop up in your face to feel more comfortable with the connection, which is asking for a bit much when one of the installments takes place thousands of years before the latter ones. And even then you kind of get that, with the Lucavi/Espers, Magicite/Zodiac Stones, Light of Kilitia, Rosarian empire, and how the technology of FFXII Ivalice starts popping up again in Tactics at the same time the Zodiac Stones/Lucavi do.

If you want to make that argument about TA2 and Revenant Wings, I'd be totally with you. Obviously that was a part of the "Ivalice Alliance" campaign which sought to create yet another Compilation series and did not have much input from the main Ivalice team. But when we talk about those four core games - it goes back to my main argument that all these games share common themes of corruption and moral ambiguity, with a unified art style, writing voice, and musical approach. Matsuno's not a sell-out - these are some of the absolute best games of the last 15 years, and this progression of the installments is just his artistic preference when telling a story. Ogre Battle was the same way. There were some characters and plot threads that carried over from March of the Black Queen to Let Us Cling Together, but for the most part the games had completely distinct settings and stories. But there's a common trend, and if you put them all together (and I feel the Ivalice games are in fact episodes of the Ogre Battle Saga) you get one unified picture of what human beings are capable of, the consequences of our actions, and the enormous question: can the ends truly justify the means?

So while the last two games may have been cow-milkers, I just think it's sad that you guys want to take arguably the greatest series in gaming of the last twenty years, with such diverse gameplay in its installments, and lump it together with SE's materialistic corporate policies.

Shame on all of you!

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Originally Posted by cactuar

so it's likely that tactics ivalice hasn't even seen any modern technology since the dynast king? is that right?

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Maybe, or they just never had it. Europe was the pimple on the ass of the world while the eastern Mediterranean civilizations flourished with great scientific, architectural, and religious achievements. There's definitely a direct correlation there, with XII actually being based on that region, specifically Turkey, while Tactics was obviously similar to Medieval Europe with Knights, Great Houses, and a centralized Church with political pull. Notice how when Europe began discovering those texts and technology, they began to move onto the world scene, whereas in Tactics, the Zodiac Stones, guns, and other technology are started to reappear.

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Originally Posted by Gamblet

Just messing around.

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I feel you my g.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

They exist in the same world because that setting is a manifestation of his creativity and a mechanism through which he can tell the kind of stories and themes that he's known for.

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Now that's a statement I can get behind.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

Maybe, or they just never had it. Europe was the pimple on the ass of the world while the eastern Mediterranean civilizations flourished with great scientific, architectural, and religious achievements. There's definitely a direct correlation there, with XII actually being based on that region, specifically Turkey, while Tactics was obviously similar to Medieval Europe with Knights, Great Houses, and a centralized Church with political pull. Notice how when Europe began discovering those texts and technology, they began to move onto the world scene, whereas in Tactics, the Zodiac Stones, guns, and other technology are started to reappear.

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That's quite an interesting comparison, thanks. :)

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

So while the last two games may have been cow-milkers, I just think it's sad that you guys want to take arguably the greatest series in gaming of the last twenty years, one excellent game, one mediocre game with superb writing, one wholly mediocre game and two cash cow spinoffs with such diverse gameplay in its installments and lump it together with SE's materialistic corporate policies.

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Fixed that for you. :p

I didn't really have a big problem with the FFT->VS connection, as it was sooo minimal and played down. It was more of a 'fun fact' type of thing. It was when they tried to add a compilation of games that I by and large wasn't impressed with onto the great work they did with FFT/VS that the effort seemed increasingly strained. I don't think it adds anything to any of the games other than to give the later installments more 'credentials'.

^ Well, just IMO they don't need credentials. The License Board could have been designed just a tad better, but I think Final Fantasy XII was in fact a perfect RPG.

And while Tactics Advance wasn't really my cup of tea as the game wore on, I know a lot of people here hold it in very high regards for its story, and even I'll admit the art design, music, and combat was very fun (even if the amount of items and abilities supporting it was ludicrous).

Revenant Wings and TA2? I don't know. I've never played TA2, although I do want to. I know I'm in the minority here, but I thought Revenant Wings was a great game, probably one of the most fun and well put together original DS titles I've played. I'm a huge FFXII fan and an RTS veteran so I'll confidently stick to my opinion that the story and gameplay aren't abysmal like everyone makes them out to be.

But I was also including Let Us Cling Together and March of the Black Queen in here, since artistically, visually, and thematically they really are the same series, not to mention how many things in Ivalice are actually in the Ogre Battle games. And given how many episodes Ogre Battle was supposed to be, I do think it all exists on one map in Matsuno's mind. Tactics Ogre was one of the best RPGs I've ever played and Ogre Battle was way ahead of its time, and its hardware.

When you take all of those six titles, yeah, I think it gives Final Fantasy and Metal Gear a run for their money.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

When you take all of those six titles, yeah, I think it gives Final Fantasy and Metal Gear a run for their money.

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Don't Listen to Bolivar's Lies~! :kakapo:

It might give Metal Gear a run for it's money. :p

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The License Board could have been designed just a tad better, but I think Final Fantasy XII was in fact a perfect RPG.

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I don't think we can reconcile on this, as I consider it in the bottom of the FF pile. :eep: From my point of view these are all unremarkable titles trying to live up to FFT's Ivalice.

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Originally Posted by VeloZer0

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The License Board could have been designed just a tad better, but I think Final Fantasy XII was in fact a perfect RPG.

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I don't think we can reconcile on this, as I consider it in the bottom of the FF pile.

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That is an uncharacteristically disappointing statement from you.

I suppose we can have it out some time if I ever drop into the FF12 forum again, but for now we just have to agree to disagree. ;)

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Originally Posted by VeloZer0

I suppose we can have it out some time if I ever drop into the FF12 forum again, but for now we just have to agree to disagree. ;)

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No, actually, we don't have to do anything.

You're wrong.













:kakapo:

The fun thing about agreeing to disagree is that I can do it unilaterally and the only thing you can do to stop me is agree with me. :p

i think the next ivalice game should be about two warring factions, one led by bolivar, and the other by velo, but they were originally close friends back in the day

roll intro movie

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Originally Posted by Velo

The fun thing about agreeing to disagree is that I can do it unilaterally and the only thing you can do to stop me is agree with me

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I can choose to fight:

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Originally Posted by krissy

i think the next ivalice game should be about two warring factions, one led by bolivar, and the other by velo, but they were originally close friends back in the day

roll intro movie

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:mwahaha: that sounds epic!

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

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Originally Posted by Velo

The fun thing about agreeing to disagree is that I can do it unilaterally and the only thing you can do to stop me is agree with me

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I can choose to fight:

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But if I remain silent there is no fight, only stalemate. :cool:

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

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Originally Posted by krissy

i think the next ivalice game should be about two warring factions, one led by bolivar, and the other by velo, but they were originally close friends back in the day

roll intro movie

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:mwahaha: that sounds epic!

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Two religious factions arguing about which interpretation of the world's history is the true history.

Cuts quite a classic tale...