Is FFXIII-2 better than FFXIII?

I say yes. Here's why:

The Battles
Better by default, since it's an enhanced version of the same thing. I personally don't care for this system because I prefer slower battles with more control over character action, but I can't argue that this is improved over the original.

The Characters
FFXIII's cast was stronger and deeper, so it's hard for a two person cast to top that, especially when one of them is Serah. However, I think Noel was a great character and up there with any of the FFXIII six. Caius with his overly-dramatic voice and cheesy dialog was still a far better villain than crappy Barthandelus. As NPCs go, Hope in XIII-2 was far better than anything XIII had to offer (I can only remember Jihil and Cid in that game and both of them were horribly under developed). Yeah, Snow and Alyssa suck, and Yuel is kinda weird, but some of the people you interact with in the Fragment quests were kind of cool and there was none of that in FFXIII. The main thing that the original did better was that it had more Lightning and less Serah.

The Story
FFXIII-2 had a bad story. Bad for even a time travel story. And the ending did it no favors. I didn't think FFXIII's story was all that great either, and it's ending had some bad moments, but it wasn't the train wreck money-grubbing attempt that this one was, so I will have to give it the edge here.

Experience System
I thought FFXIII-2's Crystarium was worse than XIII at first, but it grew on me and now I like it better. It's also easier to max out your characters, which I appreciate since grindfests are dumb. The monster aspect also adds a nice variety, and it is a surprisingly deep system. One thing that bothered me was that the abilities for each role were in a set order while the original allowed a bit more flexibility if you were gunning for one particular ability.

Sidequests
Another default win for XIII-2, since FFXIII had only one sidequest and it was boring thoughtless monster hunts (I guess farming gil for hours to upgrade weapons counts too). XIII-2 has all the Fragments (which require different things), a casino level with Chocobo races, monster collection and enhancement, secret worlds, multiple endings to find, and tons of hidden treasure.

General Gameplay
I feel as though the goal of FFXIII was to get to the end, to experience the story. Problem is, the story wasn't that great. Certainly not on the same level as other 'interactive movie' games such as the Uncharted series. I feel FFXIII-2 was different. The goal was not simply to get to the end, the goal was to play the game. You could go in different directions if you so chose. You can go back and replay areas, find new worlds with separate storylines, work on your monster collection, etc. It felt much more like the older FF games where you are embarking on your own adventure, rather than someone else's carefully scripted one. I really liked playing the game, and even having beat it I want to go back and find what I missed (which I had no such desire to do in FFXIII).

So yeah, other than story, and possibly characters (though I say that one is even), FFXIII-2 beats the original in every way. I hope SE builds on what worked in this game (freedom, sidequests, more whimsical), and improves upon what didn't (story, DLC-baiting).

I'm not that far into it yet, but I am in love with this game! I didn't like XIII at all; it's probably one of my least favorites.

I say yes! Love it. This is what XIII should have been.

I'll use Murd's format with a few 'extras' at the end.

Battles: FFXIII-2 is, as Murd mentioned, an enhanced version of FFXIII. It gets the marks for this one by default. Although not having Haste and Hastega, not to mention only a handful of monsters having one of the En-[element] spells... I don't like that at all. I miss buffing, and there is very little to do for a Synergist in FFXIII. So I wouldn't say that FFXIII-2 stormed it, because I loved having those skills so much in the previous game. It's close, but XIII-2 takes the point.

Characters: FFXIII's characters were far more interesting than Serah ever was, for me, and Noel is not good enough to keep up with the number of characters we saw develop in XIII. With that in mind, FFXIII wins this one.

Story: Erk, FFXIII-2 is not strong here at all. FFXIII wasn't generally strong here, either, for many people - but I think it still easily beats FFXIII-2. The (initial) endings for each game were both average at best, but I liked XIII's overall. It felt right, and despite there being a bit of deus ex machina going on, this is something I would say is not new for the Final Fantasy series.

Crystarium: I don't think either is that much better than the other, actually. You had a little more choice involved in XIII, but not much. The system for monsters, though, is pretty fantastic. So it's hard to say. I'll call it a draw.

Sidequests: Massive win for XIII-2. Goes without saying, it's that big a difference.

Gameplay: Since XIII was fight & watch cinematics, there just isn't enough to compete with XIII-2's fight, watch cinematics, race chocobos, take on a general knowledge quiz, explore for fragments, etc. etc. XIII-2 wins this easily.

Final score? XIII with two points, XIII-2 with three. Close, really, and shows that the two games - while similar in some ways - are incredibly different, and the strengths of each game reflect this well. It should really have been 2-2 and a draw over which is the better game if I'd made Battles an even thing over the lack of buffs, but the monsters addition is more valuable than speed.

Oh, and I'll add in that the music is a draw, too. Sound effects go to XIII-2, because I don't have to put up with overly-loud footsteps like I did in XIII. Seriously, some of those footsteps just made you forget there was even music playing. It would be easy to give the music score to XIII-2 because the songs are more memorable, but I think this is almost purely down to the fact that the music is overpowered by the sound effects in XIII.

I don't understand how you can seriously call FF13-2's ending "average". It sounds like you have extremely low standards when it comes to storywriting.

In my opinion, FF13-2 beats 13 in every area except story, where it fails so hard that i want to give it a negative score. I pretty much agree with all of Loony's points except characters and story. I thought most of FF13's cast was a bunch of unrealistically written douches, while Noel actually sort of feels like a real human being.

Oh, and the music is better. I liked the music in 13 too, but 13-2 is just that much more awesome.

FF13 is a game I don't have any reason to play more than once. FF13-2 is a game with lots of replay value, even if the ending leaves me with a taste of feces in my mouth.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

I don't understand how you can seriously call FF13-2's ending "average". It sounds like you have extremely low standards when it comes to storywriting.

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That's fair. Edited to 'Average at best', and that's more referring to the better of the two, not the worse.

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In my opinion, FF13-2 beats 13 in every area except story, where it fails so hard that i want to give it a negative score. I pretty much agree with all of Loony's points except characters and story. I thought most of FF13's cast was a bunch of unrealistically written douches, while Noel actually sort of feels like a real human being.

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Oh, don't get me wrong, Noel did feel like a real human being. But this is a fantasy storyline. There's a good reason I don't watch soap operas on TV. :) Not to mention that in XIII, they took the three of the four characters I liked least out of XIII's "Team L'Cie & Friends" and gave them the most screen time in XIII-2, and had poor writing for Snow & Sahz, the two I loved most - who had all the best lines in XIII. In fact, now that I think about it, there are no standout quotes I remember in XIII-2. I loved a massive amount of lines in XIII and I can't remember bugger all in this one. Maybe a couple of Mog lines.

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FF13 is a game I don't have any reason to play more than once. FF13-2 is a game with lots of replay value, even if the ending leaves me with a taste of feces in my mouth.

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Technically I'd say that once I'm finished with XIII-2, it will have no replay value left, but that's only because you can close/open gates and all that, allowing you to do everything in a single playthrough and on a single save in XIII-2. If you've missed anything, you can go back and get it. Which is a great thing, it has to be said, and makes the lack of replay value a mute point because this is a better way of doing things. I seriously can't state just how much I love that you can simply redo any specific area pretty much whenever you want.

Well, timegate closing in 13-2 is basically an enhanced new game plus. You get NGP, but the ability to choose exactly where in the storyline to start.

It's hard for me to say. I do think FFXIII-2 was better in a lot of ways. Okay pretty much all of the ways besides plot and characters, and the music is definitely a draw. Noel is great, and Hope is pretty bad ass scientist. "Oh are you guys gonna go hop around in magic time gates? That's cool, I'll just build my own capsule and meet you there no prob."

I can't really decide which one was better overall, but I do think I'll clock more hours into FFXIII-2.

Battle System - about equal
FF13 pros - You could advance stats much further from crystarium and weapon customization, there was a lot tougher boss battles that took some serious strategic planning unlike the sequel where normal mode is still easy mode practically(I'm not counting dlc). You had summons. shrouds was cool.
FF13 - cons - gil was ridiculously hard to come by making weapon upgrades take forever and once your party leader died it was over. You couldn't switch party leaders during battle. Fights were slower. Crystarium cap limitations throughout the game was retarded.
FF13-2 - pros - quick battles and super quick battles after you obtain all fragments. Having the advantage to switch leaders during battle. actually being able to obtain gil from battles like you should have been able to on FF13.
FF13-2 - cons - mog clock feature and monsters materializing only when your near, not much challenge, not able to expand stats as much as FF13. I liked weapon upgrades opposed to monster upgrade even tho the gill and components was hours of grinding on FF13 . no summons and no shrouds.

they both should have an auto-battle customize feature to where you can organize their priorities of auto-battle sorta like FF12 so your medic don't use esuna instead of cure when your almost dead or synergist cast buffs in a certain order


Sidequest - for obvious reasons FF13-2 takes the lead. I kept hoping you would go to the past before AF timeline and not just further in the future, but at least there was more to do than just mind numbing missions and endless grindfest like FF13.

Storyline - for obvious reasons FF13 takes the lead. I never thought I'd say I appreciate and respect FF13's storyline until I played FF13-2 all the way through and I noticed how empty the storyline is on FF13-2. Neither of them are great, but at least FF13 was consistent. Only real advantage FF13-2 had over FF13 is Serah made a much less annoying narrator than Vanille. Yeah I know, I judge these games harshly.

Soundtrack - About even only because some of the best tracks from FF13 are carried over to FF13-2. Music was the best quality of both these games.

Ending - FF13... no spoilers but I think most would agree ff13-2 ending made you go "WTF?" FF13 ending wasn't great but it was at least complete.

Overall - Tied only because FF13-2's sidequest makes up for the rest. They both really sucked in opposite areas but they sucked equally. They are both games worth playing all way through once and then move on to the next game. They both are a disgrace to the Final Fantasy series imo. I am still bitter over time and money wasted on incomplete games and want Squaresoft back to how they use to be before the merge of Square Enix.

>>> Hard to believe but XIII is better..:luca:

FF13-2 ruined almost everything that XIII had:

Cristarium ruined, the music suck, the story suck even more, random battles? WTF??, play with Noel is boring, the game is just ugly compared to XIII (was the art direction the same?), DLC crap, etc....

The battles are... a bit more entertaining than XIII`s. I guess I can give you that.

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Originally Posted by black orb

>>> Hard to believe but XIII is better..:luca:

FF13-2 ruined almost everything that XIII had:

Cristarium ruined, the music suck, the story suck even more, random battles? WTF??, play with Noel is boring, the game is just ugly compared to XIII (was the art direction the same?), DLC crap, etc....

The battles are... a bit more entertaining than XIII`s. I guess I can give you that.

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The crystarium was never good to begin with, so there is little you can ruin. It might as well have had a linear leveling system for all the good the crystarium did.
Both stories sucked quite a lot to be honest. In 13 you had to read an entire encyclopedia to even understand the basic vocabulary in the writing, and the story was just an overall mess. In 13 the characters were unrealistic, whiny, and just bland with a ton of forced character development that felt all but natural.
The DLC had gilgamesh, and he was still awesome in 13-2, so I have to disagree just because of that.
The music wasn't for me at all though, I do agree with you there.

>>> I have not beat FF13-2 yet but from what I have seen this game doesnt have an story at all, is just time travels > beat a boss and an ugly guy called Caius who like to mess with my party ("Time Bokan" anyone?).. Atleast XIII had the whole fal'Cie stuff. This game has absolutely nothing..
The crystarium is pretty much the same, it was very limited in XIII I dont know in 13-2.. I just like XIII`s more because it was prettier.
Oh yeah
I dont care how wonderful a DLC is, the reality is that a DLC cost money, something I dont have so it suck by default to me..:luca:

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Originally Posted by TrollHunter

Both stories sucked quite a lot to be honest. In 13 you had to read an entire encyclopedia to even understand the basic vocabulary in the writing, and the story was just an overall mess.

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I never had trouble with the vocabulary of FFXIII. :confused: Do you mean the l'Cie/fal'Cie/Cie'th thing, or...? I agree the story was a mess, though. It was clearly more focused on the story of the individual characters than the overall "world" plot.

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In 13 the characters were unrealistic, whiny, and just bland with a ton of forced character development that felt all but natural.

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They felt more realistic to me than any FF I've ever played. So... :confused:

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The DLC had gilgamesh, and he was still awesome in 13-2, so I have to disagree just because of that.

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I'm with black orb on this one, which is a change. :p DLC doesn't count if you're comparing two games (unless it's free) as it's not part of the actual game, but an add-on that costs extra.

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The music wasn't for me at all though, I do agree with you there.

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I liked the music a lot in both, but Danielle seemed to enjoy XIII-2's more. XIII-2's was much more noticeable, that's for sure, as I rarely ever noticed the music in XIII. Opinions on game music is a much more subjective thing, though, so some people will always dislike it.

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Originally Posted by black orb

>>> I have not beat FF13-2 yet but from what I have seen this game doesnt have an story at all, is just time travels > beat a boss and an ugly guy called Caius who like to mess with my party ("Time Bokan" anyone?).. Atleast XIII had the whole fal'Cie stuff. This game has absolutely nothing..
The crystarium is pretty much the same, it was very limited in XIII I dont know in 13-2.. I just like XIII`s more because it was prettier.
Oh yeah
I dont care how wonderful a DLC is, the reality is that a DLC cost money, something I dont have so it suck by default to me..:luca:

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But you had money to buy the game. What a crazy world we live in.

In either case, I'm not sure how much attention you could have been paying if you think the graphics are worse than in FF13. The music was great too, probably my favourite soundtrack of any of the 4 last games (except FF11).

While I agree that the story was terrible, you should probably not comment too much on it when you didn't even play through it.

To sum it up, story sucked, everything else was an improvement over FF13.

I liked FFXIII-2 better in just about every way besides the story.

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The music wasn't for me at all though, I do agree with you there.

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I liked the music a lot in both, but Danielle seemed to enjoy XIII-2's more. XIII-2's was much more noticeable, that's for sure, as I rarely ever noticed the music in XIII. Opinions on game music is a much more subjective thing, though, so some people will always dislike it.[/QUOTE]

Oh FF13 has one of my favorite soundtracks actually. For some reason I never noticed the music in the game though... weird.
Final Fantasy XIII - Barthandelus Battle Music "Fighting Fate" with translation - YouTube
Final Fantasy XIII Music Extended - Blinded By Light (Long Version) - YouTube
Final Fantasy XIII OST: Disc 4 - Nascent Requiem - YouTube

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I never had trouble with the vocabulary of FFXIII. :confused: Do you mean the l'Cie/fal'Cie/Cie'th thing, or...? I agree the story was a mess, though. It was clearly more focused on the story of the individual characters than the overall "world" plot.

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If I remember correctly, the game never actually explains to you what a l'cie, fal'cie or any of the other cies are/do. On my initial playthrough, I had to read the in-menu descriptions to even understand any of the words that came out of the characters mouth. It drove me insane. It isn't hard to explain these in cutscenes rather quickly, and it was just a lazy and poor choice they went with.

The actual story was an absolute mess though, same as 13-2. The characters pretty much bounced from place to place saying the same things over and over again. It felt really padded to me at least, and I lost interest in it by the time I hit pulse.

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They felt more realistic to me than any FF I've ever played. So... :confused:

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Yeah, for me they felt fake as hell. Snows constant screaming of the word "hero" is a pretty good example for that. In a life-threatening scenario, I don't think anyones going to keep such a romanticized view of the world for long... yet he never shuts up about it.
Hope was... he was close. He bugged the hell out of me, but at least his being annoying as crap made some logical sense.
FF12 had far better character development and far more realistic characters than 13.

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I'm with black orb on this one, which is a change. :p DLC doesn't count if you're comparing two games (unless it's free) as it's not part of the actual game, but an add-on that costs extra.

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Can't disagree there, fair enough.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

But you had money to buy the game. What a crazy world we live in.

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>>> Obviously all the games need to be bought or rented atleast once to be played, DLC is just extra stuff..:luca:

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Originally Posted by Mirage

In either case, I'm not sure how much attention you could have been paying if you think the graphics are worse than in FF13. The music was great too, probably my favourite soundtrack of any of the 4 last games (except FF11).

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>>> I was talking about Art Direction, not graphics..

I wont argue about other people`s terrible taste on music..:luca:

And in the process of saying that you won't, you go right ahead and do it. Congratulations.

Story: NO.
Music: NO.

Everything else: Yeah, pretty much.

So what's wrong with the music?

Opinion on music will always vary from person to person. Not really worth the debate. :p

Actually, I'll take on the music question.

How is XIII-2's music better than XIII's?

The best piece of music I can remember from XIII-2 was one of the variations of XIII's battle theme, played when Serah was thinking of Lightning, and wasn't actually from XIII-2.

Not that there's anything wrong with XIII-2's music, but does any of it actually surpass XIII's? The question was, is it better? Or is it merely "as good as"?

Many may have been based on (there were definitely some notable new songs. :p) but they were still different, and therefore will inevitably be held in different view. This is normal. It's like when you hear a cover of another song and like it more/less. I loved Snow's Theme in XIII and I loved Crazy Chocobo in XIII-2, for example. Different!

I liked the music in XIII-2 because it felt far more notable and fitting to the scnearios than anything did in XIII. I barely noticed the music at all in XIII most of the time, which is a shame because if you actually stop and listen then it's really good. Too many sound effects and constant talking really overshadowed it, however I feel they got it right in XIII-2 with clear and memorable tunes mixed in with good voice acting.

Synchrodrive, Augusta Tower+ remix, New Bodhum + remix, Worlds Collide, Ruined Hometown + remix, the Coliseum track (it's not named on my soundtrack), Chaotic Labyrinth, Historia Crux, Run, those are all tracks I like a lot.

On to the list of tracks that I don't like well enough to actually put on outside of the game, but that still work very well within the game itself, there's Book of Prophecies, Parallel World, Interval of Time, Plains of Eternity, Last Hunters, Paradigm Shift, Paradox, and a bunch others that I don't feel like spending time checking the names of and writing down here.

I don't think there's more than 2-3 tracks that I actually don't like, and those would be fighting pudding with pudding, crazy chocobo and... maybe one more.

Too bad the story sucks as much as it does. I really want to listen to all these things while playing again.

The Battles
Battles I think are about as fun as last game. The liked the monster-building part of this game and therefore it gets the nod because although you can only have three in your paradigm pack, it gives you many more options of the skills and passive abilities your character gets to have.

The Characters
I got to go with XIII-2 on this one. Characters who once annoyed me in XIII (Hope, Snow, Lightning) actually changed their ways and became actual real people that I found myself to enjoy. In fact, Hope was my least favorite FF XIII character and he is my favorite XIII-2 character. He's helpful, upbeat, smart, and when he popped onto my screen at the end, I was actually happy to see him. In the original game I was hoping Vanille was gonna pull him into the crystal with her :p
Noel is a great character and I felt his pain. The story may be shoddy, but I don't think it's enough to not care for this character. I mean, that character went through some shiz. So, his "soap-operaish-like" tendencies actually don't bother me because I find his motives and feelings to be a legitimate reaction of what's happened to him. The best example of this not happening correctly is Hope wanting to kill Snow in XIII. No legit reason for doing so in my mind and therefore became an immediate dumb story arc. Ruined his character for me in that game.

The Story
FFXIII-2 had a bad story. XIII's has a story that I believe to be a little underrated due to the fast pace of the game. I played through the entire game my first playthrough without looking at Datalogs and knew exactly what was going on when the game ended. Don't know why people have that problem. But the story itself was just a little too "reaching" I guess is the way to put it....Still better than XIII-2, which is a letdown. It's also too bad we all hold FF stories to the caliber of IV, VI,VII, VIII, IX, X, Tactics, and XII (that's right, I said it).

Experience System
Win for XIII-2 again. I don't even think it's close. People have to realize that while it wasn't laid out great, in XIII-2 you do have a high customization value with your 2 mains and a hundred different options of what you want for your monsters. You just have to know to only spend synergist and saboteur levels on the large crystals. Gives you the HP + Magic/Strength bonus.

Sidequests
Serendipity, alternate dimensions, Ultimate weapons, fragments/fragment skills vs. Monster Hunt
I mean, it's a complete beatdown.

Music
XIII-2. It's a general opinion. Just find it to be tons more memorable.

General Gameplay
XIII-2 again. More exploration, more NPCs to interact with giving you information on what is actually going on. Not just be randomly screaming, "Whyyy are they doing this???!!!" As stated above, the replay value is in the first playthrough with closing and reopening gates. Finish the game, wait for the credits to roll, then have fun hunting.

Conclusion: Save for the WTF ending in XIII-2, I completely thought XIII-2 was a step in the right direction. Just a little more customization value, someone who can actually write a story, and a world map and we're almost back.

That's a good post, Omni Odin. I agree with almost all of it.

Yeah it is.

Storyline. Better, told through the game and not through a silly guidebook.

Character Development. Much better.

Villains. Much better.

But then there's the music...

:eep:

Yes, then there is the music <3.

Music's always subjective. I liked both OSTs, and have my favourites from both, though I'd lean towards XIII. Just personal "guesswork". I fully respect anyone else supporting XIII-2 though, because that was very very close.

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Originally Posted by Loony BoB

Opinion on music will always vary from person to person. Not really worth the debate. :p

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This could be said for anything, which makes you wonder why anyone debates anyone on any topic.

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Originally Posted by Tifa's Boobs

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Originally Posted by Loony BoB

Opinion on music will always vary from person to person. Not really worth the debate. :p

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This could be said for anything, which makes you wonder why anyone debates anyone on any topic.

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Because some topics actually matter in terms of what particular view a significant number of people hold toward it, the possibility of said views to be changed by others, and how it affects things in the world. These are usually topics of a political and moral nature.

Music, on the other hand, is purely a matter of taste as an entertainment/art medium. Everyone likes different kinds of music and hates different kinds of music, and it doesn't really matter or change anything, making the debate pointless.

Debating why a piece of music is "good" or "bad" is like debating why the color red is better or worse than the color purple.

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Originally Posted by DMKA

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Originally Posted by Tifa's Boobs

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Originally Posted by Loony BoB

Opinion on music will always vary from person to person. Not really worth the debate. :p

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This could be said for anything, which makes you wonder why anyone debates anyone on any topic.

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Because some topics actually matter in terms of what particular view a significant number of people hold toward it, the possibility of said views to be changed by others, and how it affects things in the world. These are usually topics of a political and moral nature.

Music, on the other hand, is purely a matter of taste as an entertainment/art medium. Everyone likes different kinds of music and hates different kinds of music, and it doesn't really matter or change anything, making the debate pointless.

Debating why a piece of music is "good" or "bad" is like debating why the color red is better or worse than the color purple.

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Yes, I understand all of this.

My point was sarcastic.

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Originally Posted by DMKA

Debating why a piece of music is "good" or "bad" is like debating why the color red is better or worse than the color purple.

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yeah well purple is clearly the better color and if you like red better you are obviously insane