Final Fantasy & Religion

As some are aware, I am a Christian. I don’t mean to continually broadcast that, it’s just self-evident that not too many religious people frequent these kinds of boards and so I am something of a black sheep when it comes to certain subjects.

Though I have met a good degree of opposition from a few others on here, I do not want to give an image that I am heralding myself above others. When a man believes in God, something grips them in a way they cannot explain and sometimes it can cause them to be unforgiving or pretentious towards others. This in itself is not Godly, it is rather the object of mere men attempting to climb a level in which they do not belong. There is a great irony in that, I will admit., the Bible teaches humility and militance all at once which is highly difficult to portray. It’s like being asked to chew and not swallow the most tasteful food you can think of.

But on to the subject- FF and religion.

Anyone with an inclination to any religion has come to the conclusion that a lot of FFs have a plot synonymous to religion. For example, FFIX resembles Christianity. Kuja is Satan, and Zidane is Jesus. The Bible states that the least enemy to be destroyed is death., this is none other then Necron, as his name implies.
Kuja grows jealous of his master and tries to conquer all, and Zidane is the saving grace.

The summons are based on actual religious deities as well- take Leviathan for instance. He is the serpent in the water, which aligns with Leviathan in the books of Isaiah and Revelations in the Bible- the twisted serpent and the beast of the sea.

Final Fantasy echoes with religious intrigue. FFVII has Sephiroth, whose name literally represents an order of nine angels in which Christ believing Jews reconciled as being a three-fold Trinity. The Church would later take these three trinities and turn them into one, being God Himself.

Quite the surprise that they would make this image Satan (Sephiroth), who would attempt to destroy the world and become like God. The Bible, after all, states that Satan wanted to be like Most High. If you read Scripture, you will come to a surprising realization that Satan mimics God. In fact, they are almost interchangeable. That is why it is abundantly important for people to know what is and what isn’t holy, lest they become confused of what is righteous and what is merely taking the image of righteousness.

Anyways, I figured this would be a interesting subject for some. There really is no coincidence here., it is virtually certain that Final Fantasy falls on religion in some fashion. Look foward to feedback :)

It actually uses themes from a lot of religious cultures: Japanese myths, Hindu gods, Norse gods, etc.

As for Kuja being Satan...while he disobeyed his "father" (Garland), his "father" was even more evil than he was. Was Kuja really evil? Didn't he repent more or less at the end of the game? Perhaps he was driven mad by the task his creator had given him, and still being seen as a lesser being. ;)

BUT NOW I'M I'M OPENING THINGS UP FOR RELIGIOUS DEBATE, AND THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT. :love:

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Originally Posted by fierytempest

It actually uses themes from a lot of religious cultures: Japanese myths, Hindu gods, Norse gods, etc.

As for Kuja being Satan...while he disobeyed his "father" (Garland), his "father" was even more evil than he was. Was Kuja really evil? Didn't he repent more or less at the end of the game? Perhaps he was driven mad by the task his creator had given him, and still being seen as a lesser being. ;)

BUT NOW I'M I'M OPENING THINGS UP FOR RELIGIOUS DEBATE, AND THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT. :love:

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Mormons are convinced that Jesus and Satan are brothers. This in itself makes for Mormonism being deemed a 'cult' within the general belief in Christianity which makes Jesus God the Son and not a mere angel.

Perhaps this is what the producers thought of when they came up with the plot, as Zidane and Kuja are practically bros. But there is a lot of irony with Satan., in the beginning, God was fixed on what it is to be holy and perfect. Grace did not really kick in until Christ was nailed to the cross. So Satan could be seen as the 'eye opener' for mankind.
The thing about Final Fantasy is that it does not wholly base itself on religion, but it is in fact inspired by such things. We can even go to FFXII- Vayne resembles King Nebuchadnezzar in the Bible.

It's everywhere in FF. I think it's brilliant.

Interesting thread idea! Moved it to the General Final Fantasy subforum.

EDIT: Let's try to keep this focused on religion in FF and not segue too much into long tangents about "This is what I personally believe"/"This is what others believe"/etc.

I believe the FF's take elements from every religion. Much like how every religion takes elements from each other. It's only natural that a fantasy story that often has it's own mention of religions would be influenced by those of the creators worlds. I don't agree with the analogies you've applied to them, such as your IX theory and much of the other ones you detailed, but I do admit that the worlds religions are reflected in the Final Fantasy series. I don't think it all stems from one though, Christianity, as you are implying.

A lot of the weapons and summons are influenced by world religions for sure. I don't really think Christianity in particular is represented in any story, though.

One interesting thing is that the religious group in these games usually turns out to be evil.

From what I remember in the games Del Murder, only X's world had some form of religion.

I think you're right. I was also thinking of Tactics and Xenogears, but those aren't FFs. But X's religion was evil so I technically wasn't wrong!

I was gonna post what Depression Moon said a few days ago, but then I suddenly started to feel unsure about the accuracy of my statement, so I deleted the post. Seems like I wasn't wrong, after all.

Well, there's the physical and the nonphysical.

Beliefs all have something in common. In the case of religion none of the gods have ever showed up to this date to verify their existence. They could be playing some game with people and/or letting you speculate about their motives for unknown reasons.

Not true, Jesus shows up in burnt toast all the time.

Final Fantasy "borrows" elements from other religions like NGE "borrows" elements from Christianity.

They're just name drops.

There is an underlying Eastern spirituality thing going in FFVII, IX and X, what with the souls/Lifestream, but that really isn't reflective of any religion that I know of.

In short, Final Fantasy is not Xenogears and isn't trying to use religion as a way to convey a message. it's just kinda there.

I cannot believe Kefka wasn't mentioned here. His final battle is a sort of mockery of the Divine Comedy with the tiers representing Hell (with Kefka-Satan from waist up, as described by Dante), Purgatory (the tortured naked people, again, Dante) and Heaven (here Kefka is doing a full-blown pieta, complete with Mary). After climbing all of these layers, Dante met God. Whom does the party meet? Kefka, who has attained godlike power. I always thought he raised the whole monument as a mockery of religion, considering his nihilistic views, as he believes his power makes him the only one worthy of being called "God". I kinda like the symbolism of this fight and there's no denying this was intentional.

Besides that, can't really say they made some purposeful allegories to Christianity. Except maybe X. As mentioned before, it's this "evil church" stereotype that's dominant here and which has become pretty much cliched in recent years (and quite clumsilly, IMO, it's like most people there are in there for the evulz, whereas, ie. Xenogears had legitimately good people within it, even if all of it was a facade). Considering all the other references, though, I agree with Forsaken Lover - they're just gratuitous stuff thrown in there for the coolness factor, like in NGE.

BTW, I'm Catholic. Don't flame me :cry:

If I said that religion (what I believe) is a way to "control" people in a sense, would I get hated on? I think FFVII and the life stream has more meaning (scientifically) than heaven and hell. What I mean to say, the earth's gravity is something like "atoms pulling each together" and the human body is a lot of different atoms. So when we decompose, we "return to the Earth" non?

I think I don't know, but it would be worth looking in to. If I knew more about science.

History, of which religion is a major part, is filled with interesting things and events. Most fictional works draw on some part or parts from history because it's so interesting. They're mostly just name drops; the actual meaning of religion is rarely represented. Two brothers of contrasting morality battling it out for the fate of the world is a common tale, for example. The summons are simply powerful entities, and naming them after deities is an effective way to highlight the level of their power. I've played most FFs, and none of them have favoured any religion over another; it is just a matter of taking fascinating and exciting material from other sources and putting them into your own story.

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Originally Posted by Sum1sGruj

Mormons are convinced that Jesus and Satan are brothers. This in itself makes for Mormonism being deemed a 'cult' within the general belief in Christianity which makes Jesus God the Son and not a mere angel.

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Any religion involving daily soulless repetition, lack of independent thought or theory, or self-sacrifice in preservation of the hierarchy is a cult. Catholicism, Mormonism, Christian Extremist... what-have-you.

Much of Final Fantasy's religious undertones can be seen as more or less references to Greek mythology which in itself I believe was the second longest lasting religion beside Christianity. Many powerful men (powerful for being born to kings) claimed more power by proclaiming themselves the progeny of some god. Hercules was a soldier claimed as the son of Zeus. Alexander of Macedonia claimed to be the son of Dionysus. Is it any wonder then that the Romans in power in Jerusalem balked at the idea of a poor carpenter being the son of God? Even the Hebrew people were skeptical.

I think Final Fantasy VII shares this theme the most. Sephiroth thinks he is literally the son of Jenova but he is genetically the son of Hojo and Lucrecia. Having been infused with Jenova's DNA during conception, his body merely developed a tolerance to its power and over time, his mind began to succumb. Even his followers are simple experimental subjects injected with Jenova's DNA by Hojo. But then where does one draw a solid line between scientific certainty and religious faith?

You know what, I don't think you can definitely draw a line, ever. There isn't anything that can prove either of the two exactly. I believe that this religion has great principles, and some really bad ones. But FF seems to have a fusion between science and religion and myths and all the such, down perfectly. What were we talking about? Oooo look BALLOONS

According to the Mayan Calendar, the world is supposed to end this December. I'm holding my breath because I've got nothing better to do this year. I've always thought that people who were murderous or suicidal were idiots. The world ending, on the other hand, is most likely something we can't prevent. But if it is something we can prevent and there's any chance the Mayans were right, we better hope there's someone out there figuring out how the world's supposed to end this year... and that they can succeed in preventing it... yeah...

Now with that rant out of the way... I forgot what I was originally going to say.

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

According to the Mayan Calendar, the world is supposed to end this December.

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Beyond whether or not the mayans could predict the end of the word the fact is that the mayan calendar doesn't even actually say that.

Also, we use a Julian calendar, and it's actually the middle of July or August by the calendar the Mayans used.

I find it far more interesting to look at the religions within the games than the religions from IRL that have inspired parts of the games. FFXIII obviously has a fair bit of religion involved, as does it's sequel (even more so, I'd say). I'm sure somewhere in FFVIII, I think it was Balamb, someone talks about some kind of religion. Are there more?

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Originally Posted by Loony BoB

Are there more?

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*cough* FFX *cough*

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Originally Posted by Karifean

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Originally Posted by Loony BoB

Are there more?

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*cough* FFX *cough*

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Like I said, there is absolutely NO way FFX's Yevon faith was used as a symbol of the Catholic church and all its followers being evil or blind, no siree. :roll2 Talk about anvils...

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Originally Posted by fierytempest

Also, we use a Julian calendar, and it's actually the middle of July or August by the calendar the Mayans used.

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Incorrect. Firstly, we use the Gregorian calender. Secondly, that is not how leap years work. Thirdly, everyone reading this should watch all CGPGrey's videos because they are amazing. :D

. . . whatever.

Have there been any Final Fantasy installments with a religion predicting the end of the world? The closest I can think comes to this is VII because of Bugenhagen telling Cloud's group the world's end is not far off whether in one year or a hundred years. What a pessimist...

If you read the FF7 Comic, you will know that's because Bugenhagen has no arms, just sleeves, so he's really sad.

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Originally Posted by The White Wizard of Fynn

I cannot believe Kefka wasn't mentioned here. His final battle is a sort of mockery of the Divine Comedy with the tiers representing Hell (with Kefka-Satan from waist up, as described by Dante), Purgatory (the tortured naked people, again, Dante) and Heaven (here Kefka is doing a full-blown pieta, complete with Mary). After climbing all of these layers, Dante met God. Whom does the party meet? Kefka, who has attained godlike power. I always thought he raised the whole monument as a mockery of religion, considering his nihilistic views, as he believes his power makes him the only one worthy of being called "God". I kinda like the symbolism of this fight and there's no denying this was intentional.

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I'd call this more of an elaborate literary reference than anything religious on the part of the developers. That said, TDC was a product of heavy religious influence, so there's that.

I'd also disagree that Kefka raises anything as an affront to religion. I played the game recently and I don't recall anything that was direct religious criticism. There's the idea that an all-powerful entity can destroy whatever he pleases at any moment - but all the talk about a "god" of magic and all the religious/literary imagery seems more like an elaborate way of showing his Kefka's tyranny over the population (if the psychic beams of fire weren't enough). His power pretty much does make him a "god" relatively-speaking. It's not like the characters arrive and correct him on what a real god is or how it should behave.

Dun mix serious religion stuff into my games that help me escape reality and cope with this twisted world pls. :(