So I have successfully watched the midnight premiere of all 3 movies in the Dark Knight trilogy.
Once you guys watched, discuss how much of an epic ending to a series this movie was.
So I have successfully watched the midnight premiere of all 3 movies in the Dark Knight trilogy.
Once you guys watched, discuss how much of an epic ending to a series this movie was.
I can't recall the last time I found a movie ending that satisfying. I've never been a Bane fan, and it's hard to connect with a character whose mouth you can't see, but it worked well enough, and Selena Kyle was enough of a distraction. Once they revealed Talia, though, I was sooo excited. From the first movie I've wanted to see her but never actually expected her to show up.
I thought Officer Blake's real name being Robin was adorable, and I'm glad that Batman and Catwoman finally ran away together.
Joker will always be my favorite, but I have no complaints.
P.S. I added the word "unmarked" to the title 'cause I wanted it to be super clear that this was for people who had seen the movie, since we already have another thread.
Actually, I think Batman died. When Alfred sees him at the end, I think it was supposed to be a symbolic sign that Alfred felt accomplished and Bruce did the right thing.
I think you're full of haggis.
It was alright.
Except for the fact that Bruce fixed the auto-pilot in the bat, went back for his mothers pearls, and at some point after the movie ended left the coordinates to the Batcave for Blake.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkBahamut
Seriously, between all of that and them outright showing him alive it's pretty clear that they're not trying to leave things ambiguous. He is alive.
As for my thoughts, I'm still processing everything a bit and plan to see it again on Tuesday once it's all sunk in, but my initial reaction is that that was my favourite of the three. Excellent way to end the trilogy.
So do he and Catwoman bang?
So next movie won't be Batman 4 but Robin 1? This is supposed to be the end for Batman, right? I think he survived, too, I don't think that was any symbolism they were trying to show in that last scene with Alfred. I mean, come one, auto pilot; it was literally foreshadowing something there when they first mentioned that.
I think I liked the second one better though; I'm sticking with the Joker-Batman dynamic as the best in the series.
I loooooooooooooooooooooved this movie. I hope anne hathaway and joseph gordon-levitt decide to make a sex tape together or something because they were so smurfing hot, but I won't refuse any of the chemistry hathaway had with christian bale.
oh my smurfing god. I cannot begin to describe how delighted I was throughout this entire film.
First and foremost, smurfING CILLIAN MURPHY'S FACE WHO I WANT TO KISS showing up on the screen as a complete and smurfing surprise nailed the movie for me. Nailed it. That made me so incredibly happy, especially his psychotic self-appointed role as ruling judge for the people's court. smurfing loved it.
Also, Littlefinger and JOSEPH QUINN, anyone? anyone? My jaw dropped when I realized that it was Quinn screaming back at Tommy (SPOILER)(see: Joseph Gordon-Levitt) from across the bridge near the end. Loved it.
Talia. Nooo smurfing inclination whatsoever that Ra's al Ghul's daughter would show up and be behind all of this. None whatsoever. I knew there was a daughter involved in the comic but I'm not a Batman expert and it never once crossed my mind that she would appear. Well-played, Nolan. After she exposed herself, though, I wished that there had been some twisted love affair between her and Bane. I thought that's what it was at first, but he was major friend-zoned with the way she said goodbye to him. When she was explaining the backstory and fixing Bane's mask and tears were coming from his eyes, that just broke my heart.
Bane was amazing. For some reason, his accent and the way he spoke really surprised me. I'm not sure what I was expecting. He seemed almost cheerful the way he says things. I expected him to have a deep, gruff, hoarse voice the way Bruce changes his when he becomes Batman. It sounded to me that without his mask, he would almost sound the way Han Landa did from Inglorious Basterds. I am so happy at how his character was executed, though. He was a terrifying villain because he seems to outmatch Batman in every way and nearly kills him. I thought that Nolan could have picked better villains at first when I heard he was using Bane but it couldn't have been more perfect.
Hathaway was a pretty good, albeit pretty typical Catwoman with her sleuthy one-liners, but I guess that was to be expected. I honestly thought she would have more to do with plotting in the downfall of Gotham and then turn near the end - I thought it was those two in a duo instead of her being used to get what she wanted. She reminded me very much of Faye Valentine.
I feel like Albert really opened up the most in this movie. Every film, cartoon, whatever it's like, "yeah Albert, sure sure" even though Bruce clearly loves him. He finally broke through his typical "I care about you and I don't want you to get hurt but I know what you'll do what you want anyway so just be careful" attitude and took it where it needed to go. I found it profoundly heart-wrenching both when he was saying goodbye to Bruce and at the funeral.
Gary Oldman was as great as ever as the Commissioner. Marion Cotillard was excellent. Joseph Gordon-Levitt did indeed steal the show for me, though. I loved him. I had heard some rumor that he was supposed to be a "Robin-like" character, but the way they threw his real name in at the end was pretty gratifying.
And, of course, Christian Bale. The way he portrays fearsomeness and humility and the willingness to do what is right is so incredible to me. You can see it in his face. He completely convinces you that he cares so much for Gotham. He spent so much less time in this movie pretending to showcase who he thinks Bruce Wayne is supposed to be to the rest of the world and completely focused on Batman and what needed to be done. I seriously doubt that anyone will be able to top him if there are any remakes in the future, as I'm sure there will be.
This is one of my favorite - if not the favorite - series of all time. Don't love love Batman Begins, but I can tolerate the last half of it. The Dark Knight is a smurfing gem and this last film was so perfect and ended it all exactly the way it needed to be ended. No strings were left undone. Nolan just leaves you wanting more because it's so, so good.
A bit of a sidenote - I'm incredibly excited that he's doing Superman next. He killed with Batman. And although Superman isn't as dark, I have confidence that he can do a remarkable job with that story as well.
I loved every minute of this film. I wished it had gone on forever. I want to go see it a dozen more times in theaters. (Also, there were previews for Oz that excited the tit out of me and I can't wait for that series to come out, either.)
I doubt they'll do a Robin series. Though, in the extremely unlikely chance Nolan did continue with that universe, I imagine he would skip Robin and just make him Nightwing. I doubt either will happen though.Quote:
Originally Posted by LFC
I agree that the Joker-Batman dynamic is impossible to beat, but I felt like this movie came as close as it was going to get and it was better in some ways, which I found really impressive. I had such a hardon for Dark Knight for the longest time, but Dark Knight Rises was just lovely.
He briefly raised her. That's, like, gross.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacific hagfish
I thought it was sweet, cause he clearly loved her :( It doesn't have to be gross!
But I felt like it would've been a better movie in the end if he died.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi22Except for the fact that Bruce fixed the auto-pilot in the bat, went back for his mothers pearls, and at some point after the movie ended left the coordinates to the Batcave for Blake.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkBahamut
Seriously, between all of that and them outright showing him alive it's pretty clear that they're not trying to leave things ambiguous. He is alive.
As for my thoughts, I'm still processing everything a bit and plan to see it again on Tuesday once it's all sunk in, but my initial reaction is that that was my favourite of the three. Excellent way to end the trilogy.
My initial impressions is that it is my favorite of the three Nolan universe Batman movies. This may change as more time passes, but either way it was THE most satisfying conclusion to a trilogy I have ever seen. The movie isn't perfect, but I didn't expect it to be. At the end of the day, it was one of the best movie experiences I ever had. Thank you Christopher Nolan and everyone else that worked on all three movies!
This was a great film, and the best ending to the Dark Knight trilogy that could have been possible. Probably the best third movie in a series since Last Crusade. I really loved the movie. Bane was great, and Catwoman was actually not crappy like I would have thought. Hathaway did a really good job.
I thought 'Blake' was actually 'Drake' the whole time so it didn't surprise me when they called him Robin.
The Dark Knight is still the best because of Joker. That movie really stands on its own, while The Dark Knight Rises is more of a conclusion to the trilogy.
I'm half asleep but I finally saw this tonight, and well *fangasm* OH MY GOD IT WAS SO AWESOME!!!! Much like The Dark Knight, it is just really satisfying to get hyped up for a movie and actually have the film pull through and be as awesome as you hoped it would be. A truly great finale for the trilogy and OMG! Liam Neeson came back to play Ras'Al Gul!!! The plot twist with his daughter was amazing and Bane finally got the fanfare he truly deserved. If I had one complaint, it's that I wish Bane had gotten a more climatic ending. He is such a big force in the film that I felt his conclusion was a bit anti-climatic.
The Dark Knight is still my favorite of the trilogy but this film is a very close second and I really felt every character pulled through on this film.
I think one of the main reasons it's so well liked is that Rachel Dawes was dead through the whole thing.
I would have gone with Anne Hathaway's butt in that catsuit. To each their own I suppose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shlup
Saw it again this evening. Definitely my favourite of the 3 I think. Except when I'm feeling psychopathic and want to watch the Joker.
forever and ever amenQuote:
Originally Posted by Tifa's Boobs
If I go see this movie, I want to see Anne and Christian getting horizontal.Quote:
Originally Posted by krissyforever and ever amenQuote:
Originally Posted by Tifa's Boobs
He only gets horizontal with Talia, who is much hotter imo.
I thought the movie was thoroughly entertaining and a really great way to end the trilogy. Surprisingly, I thought Anne Hathaway did a good job with what she was given. I also liked Bane with his crazy cartoon voice and JGL's Robin.
But I don't think the movie was balls out amazing like a lot of people are hyping it up to be.
So much just didn't make any sense. I thought Marion Cotteiard was wasted in her role, and her death scene was just the silliest. I could not get over how bad that was. What gives?
I also really really hate it when female villians in movies sleep with the guy that they're intending to kill. Yeah, I hate you but I'm totally going to let you smurf me anyway. Ugh.
I thought the villains motivations were kinda far-flung. Joker was obviously insane, was Bane insane too? Throughout the movie it made it seem like there was some deeply rooted hatred of Gotham's police/infrastructure/culture in his motivations but at the end we find out he's mostly just doing this cause he loves the girl? Or am I getting that wrong? Is he just crazy and wants anarchy? I wish they had made that more clear.
I know it was a bit cheesy but I LOVED that Batman got a happy ending. Most of the film was so dark, it made me heart go awwww to see him all sunshine and happy.
Well technically in the books, Talia and Bruce have a complicated romantic relationship that is disturbed by Ras' Al Gul being Batman's enemy and Talia's dad. I'll admit I felt the relationship could have used a bit more development.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miriel
He's the figurehead of the new Brotherhood of Shadows from Batman Begins, though Talia is actually the leader, Bane is the face of the organization. Going by how they operated in Batman Begins, they oppose the police and government which they felt is corrupt and they are trying to finish Ras' Al Gul's goal of destroying Gotham to serve as an example to the rest of society that they need to shape up and restore the proper balance before they fall like Gotham. Bane is simply a servant to Talia, but seeing how he's also a former criminal, I'm sure he revels in the anarchy and destruction of the establishment as well.Quote:
I thought the villains motivations were kinda far-flung. Joker was obviously insane, was Bane insane too? Throughout the movie it made it seem like there was some deeply rooted hatred of Gotham's police/infrastructure/culture in his motivations but at the end we find out he's mostly just doing this cause he loves the girl? Or am I getting that wrong? Is he just crazy and wants anarchy? I wish they had made that more clear.
I wish the movie would have explored Talia/Batman's relationship better. It was probably the worst thing about it. In the end it seemes like she hated him though for some reason she smurfed him before anyway.
I hope we get some deleted/extended scenes with Talia and Batman. I guess I was projecting what I knew about their relationship in other storylines into the movie, but thinking about it their relationship in the movie was really underdeveloped. I was still happy to see her though.
So I finally got around to seeing this the other day, now that I have my life back. It is overall a really great comic book movie, and a worthy conclusion to the best super hero film series ever made.
The good: Bane. I loved how Bane was portrayed so much. He was so imposing and menacing and brilliant all wrapped into one. I will concede that nothing can beat the Joker, but this version of Bane came closer than I would have ever thought possible back when the second film ended. Other good parts included Catwoman (especially the outfit), Talia's overall story, and the epic plot.
The bad: Ok, there were some awful plot points that the movie rushed through (there was so much in this story that a 2:45 movie could still feel rushed). The point where Robin revealed his Batman knowledge was so, so bad. It makes sense that he could tell Wayne's smile was fake, but that he was Batman? Wtf? It was like the writers finished the script but forgot they had to include somewhere that Robin knew Batman's identity, so made up so last-minute bulltrout.
Like others have mentioned, I also didn't like how the Bruce/Talia "relationship" was developed. It was very perfunctory and meaningless, and so the ultimate reveal did not have the impact it could have.
But still, a great movie and fitting ending. I might even argue that the Batman trilogy contains the three best super hero/comic movies ever made. Iron Man is probably the only viable competitor Marvel has put up, which could arguably nudge out Batman Begins.
I agree with you about Bane. How many movies have the hero look like he's about to die from some bad guy to just be saved just in time? I left to go to the bathroom when Bruce and Talia interacted with each other the first time, except I just got to see them laying in the covers together.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
I would also agree about Bane's ending. Getting blasted out of the way by Selina did seem a bit anti-climactic to his role.
yes i expected him to show up after that
didnt think he was dead
(SPOILER)Robin/Arthur was the dreamer
Batman was the subject
Alfred/Miles was the architect
Talia/Mal was also along for the ride
Scarecrow/Fischer was a projection
The Idea: Shut down Wayne Enterprises
Anyway I loved all the the 2 second flashback moments. As was said Bane's death felt very anticlimactic (unless it's meant to imply he survived as comic villains tend to do). I wouldnt have prefered Batman died but I wouldve prefered implication and ambiguity of his survival rather than outright 'there he is, he's fine and Frenching it up'. I also felt Robin was rather underplayed during the end of the climax when he was trying to get everyone across the bridge, seeing as he failed and didnt really contribute to the victory after his part was done at the start of the climax
I finally saw it. It was soooooo good.
So... I will now admit the truth: I didn't like this movie very much.
Sure, there were parts that were very enjoyable. I very much liked the characters and especially enjoyed Bane's voice being exactly the opposite of what I expected.
HOWEVER, there were some plot holes that completely and utterly took me out of the movie, to the point that I could no longer suspend my disbelief.
Chief among them:
1. How exactly did Bruce get back to Gotham after escaping the Pit? Isn't he bankrupt? Did he walk to the nearest airport and sneak aboard a plane? And wouldn't someone kind of notice that he'd escaped? And isn't Gotham under a severe siege? So, he just escapes and magically is back in Gotham seemingly overnight?
2. Why did they wait to detonate the bomb? This was bugging me for the entire second half of the movie. It really always bugs me when an action movie introduces a bomb because you know that it will come down to someone either defusing it or detonating it with literally seconds to spare. And somehow, Bane and company decide they will just wait months before detonating it? Why? Wasn't their goal to destroy Gotham?
Now, don't get me wrong. I get that it's a superhero movie and I'm supposed to go along for the ride, which I normally am willing to do. However, these moments seemed so illogical to me that I couldn't stop thinking about them and thus was taken out of the movie completely. I appreciate that Nolan was going for more realism with these superhero movies and in the bigger picture, he was a wild success. I really enjoyed both Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. In a way, this was sort of a no win movie since The Dark Knight had a now timeless performance from Batman's most iconic nemesis and on top of that, that film felt so epic that raising the stakes again seemed impossible. But to me, this movie was a let-down because I wasn't able to get past the moments I mentioned.
So, bring on your explanations of my above spoilers and maybe you can help me make sense of this.
Take care all.
1) haha it's batman. there are versions of the story where he gives up all his money before leaving gotham the first time and by the time he gets back he is rich again. also ninja.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Captain
2) giving gotham time to destroy itself, and more importantly, to allow bruce to suffer as he watches his city take itself apart before being utterly destroyed. there's an aspect of vengeance here too, that wasn't present in batman begins and the original league of shadows.
edit: additionally for number 2, it must have been delicious to know that gotham's demise was originally a wayne corporation project. but i suppose this was also the intended case in batman begins.
Yeah, it's basically revenge but also I would argue that it falls into the League of Shadows ideal of resetting the balance by making a part of humanity serve as an example to the rest. Batman suffers for watching his own city fall apart but also to horrify the world by watching it also fall apart into chaos and violence and rattle the cages of normal society.
As for Batman's 24 hour trip, yes it's a plot hole created to add tension, but even if he is broke, he's still smurfing Bruce Wayne, I bet that local warlord who owns the pit owed him a favor.
I was wondering about how he was going to get back too but the scene before he gets back they say something about there being 2 weeks left before the bomb goes off and when he gets back theres only 24 hours left or something (massive paraphrasing and ad libbing there) which means there was a large timeskip between when he got out of the hole and when he got back to Gotham, and I think 2 weeks is a reasonable timeframe for him to steal some money, get a plane and parachute into gotham or whatever the hell batman does.
Also as said they wanted Gotham to destroy itself before the bomb finished them off and force Bruce to watch it all
What I dont get is why everyone in the prison hole was hating on Bane
Everyone else kind of covered it, but yeah, there was a longer period of time between when he escaped and when he got to Gotham than it seems if you aren't paying attention. Plus, he's Batman. Finding a way to get himself back into Gotham probably isn't that hard for him. Hell, he may even have had plans in place for getting in and out of the city undetected if he ever needed to. As for someone noticing he escaped, there aren't any guards there. You throw people in the hole and they never get out. Maybe they drop them food and water now and again, but that'd be the extent of it. Not to mention Bane had basically dislocated a disc in his spine. He probably didn't figure he was going anywhere after that.
And I've seen other people confused with why they don't detonate the bomb right away but I'm not sure how the movie could have been clearer in that they wanted Bruce to suffer from watching his city fall before it was finally destroyed. Hell, Bane pretty much outright says that's his goal when he leaves Bruce in the prison.
Part of Bane's motivation was his love for Thalia, but moreover they both sincerely believed in the mission of the League of Shadows and in exacting vengeance for Ras al-Ghul's death.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miriel
I also loved that Batman got a happy ending, and that Alfred (YOU PEOPLE. HIS GODDAMN NAME IS ALFRED) got closure knowing that he had successfully raised Bruce and that Bruce would, finally, be content in life. Alfred is so, so important to Bruce's identity. He's his guidance, his moral compass. He's his history.
1) It's best to kind of refer back to Bruce's previous life. He eschewed all of his possessions as a young man, fled into the unknown and became a master criminal and thief. After he escapes from certain death, he becomes the greatest ninja in a gang of the greatest ninjas. He's good with limited resources and he had weeks to get back to Gotham.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Captain
2) The League of Shadows wanted Gotham to be a symbol to the rest of the world that "crimes" will be punished, no matter how long ago they occurred. What better way than to hold the city in spellbound terror for months on end. What crueler punishment exists than long, drawn out, imprisonment with the knowledge that you are bound for death but also with an inexorable hope that may, just maybe, you won't. It makes my stomach twist just thinking of it.
A bunch of dudes in prison forever, a female who will someday grow into a woman. I wonder.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackmage_nuke
I saw this on my birthday and I loved every minute of it. I was really nervous about JGL's character, not because JGL can't do whatever the smurf he wants, but because the addition of another goodguy was concerning. I also felt it was unrealistic that he figured Bruce out from one meeting.
But damn that man is pretty.
I think Christian Bale was excellent, as always. He perfectly marries the obscure and darkly funny Batman of Michael Keaton with the gritty and hyper-realistic detective storylines I expect from Batman. He's dark. He's wounded. He's vengeance for all of those who can't exact vengeance. For me, Bale can do no wrong with this role.
For the last week I've been on a Gary Oldman kick because of his performance of Gordon. I don't keep up with the comics, but I've never seen a Gordon portrayed as such a fatalistic, tortured guardian of a city who will never appreciate him for what he is or what he's done. All of the previous Gordons are by-the-book, two dimensional old cop stock characters, but Oldman brings him to life. He's a person who partners with the Batman, not a patsy who relies on him. Nolan/Oldman's Jim Gordon has so much more in common with Bruce Wayne than most people understand. He sacrificed family, love, and personal honor in order to make Gotham a better place. I was a little disappointed that this film didn't keep him in focus as the last one did. The Dark Knight will remain my favorite of the series, and one of my favorite films of all time, in part due to Heath Ledger's performance as The Joker and due to Gary Oldman as James Gordon.
Tom Hardy was astounding. Absolutely astounding. So much of his performance relied exclusively on his ability to convey emotion through his body and his eyes. I was impressed.
Anne Hathaway was great as Selina Kyle, even though I always loved Catwoman as a vigilante activist from the animated series, I liked that she was a hard girl who just wanted a second chance to be something else. Who hasn't wondered and wished what they could be if their life had taken a different path? I think her presence in the film is so necessary. If it hadn't been for Selina Kyle, Bruce would've died as a savior instead of getting to find contentment.
And Michael Caine was, as always, able to deliver a performance with such emotion that I just wanted to cry and cry and cry.
Awesome, awesome, awesome movie.
PS: IT REALLY DID FOLLOW THE PATTERN OF A MAGIC TRICK IN THE PRESTIGE. I was like "lol that's a good theory" but then it totally happened.
I assumed they somehow hid the gender of the child from everyone but now that I try to think about it I cant remember if they said that or notQuote:
Originally Posted by fire_of_avalon
Thanks for your responses, though my counterargument to that would be that the POINT of Christopher Nolan's Batman was that everything would be grounded more in reality then just the "Well, he's Batman, he can do anything!".
If the League of Shadows is such a big over-reaching group, one capable of laying siege to an entire city, one capable of hijacking a plane in 5 minutes, then I would believe they'd have left some guards to you know, watch their one true nemesis and make sure he doesn't escape. North Korea and South Korea employ guards that just WATCH each other all day long on their borders for crying out load.
As for the bomb, ok, they wanted Bruce to suffer BUT, if there was a two week or so gap between his escape and return to Gotham, wouldn't they have probably heard he escaped and if so, why didn't they just detonate the bomb then?
If I wanted to make someone suffer by withholding something but then they escaped, why would I then continue to withhold? I would just do the thing at that point, since either A) The person is dead or vanished and won't see it, or B) They are on the way to stop me, so get while the gettings good.
To me, that is the difference between The Joker in The Dark Knight and these villains. The Joker's goal was mayhem and panic which he accomplished. Plus, he didn't just leave everything up to the last minute. He set things in motion and essentially used himself as the distraction. Sure, Batman "Won" in that movie too, but at a price and not on his own terms. That is a powerful villain that can do that.
Take care all.
I think it was more that there was any number of ways he couldve gotten back and in the end knowing how he returned to Gotham wasnt important to the story, the same way we dont always see them eating breakfast.Quote:
though my counterargument to that would be that the POINT of Christopher Nolan's Batman was that everything would be grounded more in reality then just the "Well, he's Batman, he can do anything!".
Maybe it's what Bane said about hope. he wanted to leave that little glimer there to make it all the more painful when they destroyed him. Infact it's possible Talia expected Bruce to escape, if I recall she was not really surprised, only Bane was surprised as he himself was unable to escape the hole. That or it's just plain hubris.Quote:
As for the bomb, ok, they wanted Bruce to suffer BUT, if there was a two week or so gap between his escape and return to Gotham, wouldn't they have probably heard he escaped and if so, why didn't they just detonate the bomb then?
^ Mostly this, and technically there were guys watching over Bruce in the prison but they were other inmates, and he kind of won them over with his determination to leave. Also once again, I felt they wanted Bruce to suffer, so even if Talia knew he was coming, she would have not set off the bomb, just so she could have her wonderful moment where she stabs him, explains her true identity, and watch Batman's horror when he realizes the person he finally opened up to and handed over his company and project to was counting on all of this to happen so she could get her hands on a Bomb he made. Of anything, she's devilishly calculating here. You need to focus on the idea the villains motive is revenge, not idealism. Blowing up Gotham before Batman returned would not be as satisfying as making him think he could stop it and then learning the hard-way they underestimated him.
As for the other issue of how he got to Gotham, honestly, I feel you are making too much of a big deal about something most people probably don't care about. It still took him nearly two weeks to travel to wherever he was and sneak into Gotham so it wasn't like he just summoned his flying Bat ship and got there (though he could since he did fix the auto-pilot) and we are talking about a paranoid vigilante whose part time alias gives him way too much free time. He could have thought of a way to get in and out of Gotham secretly, especially since I don't think Bane's goons were terribly worried about one or two guys they would eventually notice and gun down like the CIA agents who went AWOL on their delivery. One guy who has the same training as the bad guys for sneaking around, and this guy happened to be good enough to win against the founder of the order twice? The man has more than enough in-movie credentials to let it slide that we didn't get to see every intimate detail. The film was nearly 3 hours long, I don't think it needed an extra 10 minutes to watch Bruce travel home and sneak in, just so we can make sure everything is absolutely grounded in reality. You need to chillax and just enjoy the ride bro. :cool:
The League of Shadows ultimate goal was to make an example of Gotham, correct? Isn't that stated in Batman Begins? Beyond making an example of one man, they wanted Gotham to be an example, like Rome. So, really, it goes against their inherent and stated motives to now swing to revenge against Batman versus their over-reaching goal. At least from Bane's perspective. Talia is out for revenge partially, but that's not her biggest goal. Her goal is to finish the job her father set out. Getting Batman is the cherry on top, but why would you just let the entire sundae melt if you can't have the cherry?
I also refuse to believe that Bruce Wayne could just magic his way back in to Gotham. He is over-coming a broken back, with no identification and what happened to that horrible limp from early in the movie? Did they just give him back the brace he created so he could walk out of the desert? That is a plothole too big to just "enjoy the ride" with. It was so unbelievable to me that I couldn't enjoy the movie.
Does he have the training to do it? Yes, but the film should have shown this. At least show how he got out of the desert. Yes, with a film, you don't need to show every detail of life, but a quick little shot or montage of him maybe hijacking a plane of his own or sneaking aboard something would have sufficed. Once he escapes the Pit, it's obvious he is going to make it back to Gotham, but after establishing how hellish and out of the way this pit is, to just say 'and then he returned', seems cheap, both for the set-up and for the degree of difficulty that Bruce actually had to overcome.
Almost every movie, no matter how well written, will have plotholes and some of my favorite ones certainly do, but the glaring ones in this kept me from enjoying it.
To give an example:
Something that always bugged me in The Dark Knight: How did the Joker get away after he crashed Harvey Dent's party? Remember, he tosses Rachel out the window and Batman dives after to save her. But, if my logic is correct, isn't the Joker still in the penthouse? How did he and his men get away? In plain sight of all the guests? Watching it again, this really bugged me too.
Take care all.
In response to the Joker getting away, he just walked out. :p
WHo the hell is going to try to stop him?
And With Batman crashing pretty hard, he probably wasn't in good enough shape to give chase.
To savor the vengeance of the death of her father, that she didn't get to love or even know until she was much older? I definitely think she would. Besides, if you make an example of Gotham but Gotham's symbol of hope survives then the world is not taught it's lesson, which is the entire point of destroying Gotham. To make an example to the rest of the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Captain
While I agree about the leg thing, my guess is there might be something we'll see in deleted scenes during a special edition release.Quote:
Does he have the training to do it? Yes, but the film should have shown this. At least show how he got out of the desert. Yes, with a film, you don't need to show every detail of life, but a quick little shot or montage of him maybe hijacking a plane of his own or sneaking aboard something would have sufficed. Once he escapes the Pit, it's obvious he is going to make it back to Gotham, but after establishing how hellish and out of the way this pit is, to just say 'and then he returned', seems cheap, both for the set-up and for the degree of difficulty that Bruce actually had to overcome.
Those people weren't going to do anything to stop him. A bigger plothole, in my mind, is how Gordon was kept a secret until he showed back up to take-in the Joker. Obviously MCU knew he was still alive, but there were at least two dirty cops there. It doesn't make sense they wouldn't inform on him. That one bugged me a little, but the payoff is Jim Gordon in full SWAT gear with a shotgun at the Joker's throat. Sometimes suspending disbelief gets you cool prizes.Quote:
Almost every movie, no matter how well written, will have plotholes and some of my favorite ones certainly do, but the glaring ones in this kept me from enjoying it.
To give an example:
Something that always bugged me in The Dark Knight: How did the Joker get away after he crashed Harvey Dent's party? Remember, he tosses Rachel out the window and Batman dives after to save her. But, if my logic is correct, isn't the Joker still in the penthouse? How did he and his men get away? In plain sight of all the guests? Watching it again, this really bugged me too.
Take care all.
Cause even Ras' Al Gul did the same thing when he fabricated Gotham's destruction using Wayne Corp technology to do it, just so he could get revenge as well as serve his more idealistic goal. Talia's out for blood and Bane is her most loyal servant and hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, so I can see how her revenge ultimately trumped the Leagues goals. Her old man did the exact same thing since he probably could have destroyed Gotham a myriad of ways but chose the most elaborate and time consuming method just so he could get back at Batman.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Captain
Well actually, if memory serves me correctly. if you pay attention to the background, you'll notice the Pit is located not far from what I'm guessing is the Warlord's palace, so I don't think he had to walk terribly far to get back in touch with civilkization, as for the leg brace, remember that Bane said he wanted to give Wayne the feeling of hope so he could crush him? So I don't think it's far fetched that they would let him keep it. As for the back, he is in decent shape, and he was trapped there for months, not a few weeks, he had time to recover from a back injury that didn't flat out paralyze him. Besides the whole point of the scene is also just showing the power of the human spirit, so chances are he's still in very bad shape all the way up to the end of the movie but kept going like nothing was wrong on sheer willpower alone.Quote:
I also refuse to believe that Bruce Wayne could just magic his way back in to Gotham. He is over-coming a broken back, with no identification and what happened to that horrible limp from early in the movie? Did they just give him back the brace he created so he could walk out of the desert? That is a plothole too big to just "enjoy the ride" with. It was so unbelievable to me that I couldn't enjoy the movie.
Does he have the training to do it? Yes, but the film should have shown this. At least show how he got out of the desert. Yes, with a film, you don't need to show every detail of life, but a quick little shot or montage of him maybe hijacking a plane of his own or sneaking aboard something would have sufficed. Once he escapes the Pit, it's obvious he is going to make it back to Gotham, but after establishing how hellish and out of the way this pit is, to just say 'and then he returned', seems cheap, both for the set-up and for the degree of difficulty that Bruce actually had to overcome.
Also, Bruce spent 7 years wandering the world without his fortune in Batman Begins. I think he knows how to get some where without relying on his fortune, or Bat-tech. I feel with that knowledge from the first film, it's pretty trivial to think of this as a plothole and more of just the writer hoping the audience could piece it together themselves.
A bunch of rich socialites are not really going to stop a group of armed thugs who were good enough to get past their security in the first place. Yeah, they just walked out.Quote:
Almost every movie, no matter how well written, will have plotholes and some of my favorite ones certainly do, but the glaring ones in this kept me from enjoying it.
To give an example:
Something that always bugged me in The Dark Knight: How did the Joker get away after he crashed Harvey Dent's party? Remember, he tosses Rachel out the window and Batman dives after to save her. But, if my logic is correct, isn't the Joker still in the penthouse? How did he and his men get away? In plain sight of all the guests? Watching it again, this really bugged me too.
Take care all.
Talia wasn't a surprise for me. When she first appeared I leaned over and said, " watch it, she's Talia al ghul" "who?" "Ras al..""...""his daughter..... Ah just watch the movie."
I didn't like bane's death though. It was anticlimatic.
I saw this movie again yesterday and came here to reiterate this. Completely anticlimactic, and he deserved more for the villain that he was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freya
Can't stop loving this movie, though.
We're picking nits here frankly, but the inherent lack of logic villains employ in movies, especially superhero movies is really flooding back to me now. This is just the latest and greatest example of such. It just makes me kind of annoyed that someone would have such an elaborate plan and then not just execute it but instead wait to see if the superhero is going to return before following through.
I long for the day when a villain is actually ruthless. I think it would make for a much more interesting series and would raise the stakes for the heroes.
I was actually planning to overlook all of this for The Dark Knight Rises if they had actually done the unthinkable and let Bruce Wayne die, but by then hedging their bets, I felt the film didn't fulfill its actual promise and what I still believe to be wildly inconsistent plot points soured me.
If we want to wave away all of this and just say Bruce Wayne was too determined to be stopped fine, but once again, the fact that he was still injured, and that no one left look-outs to, I don't know maybe shoot him on sight if he escaped the Pit, takes a lot away from this film for me. Again, I'm not asking for a complex re-working of the plot here, but if they included a few more scenes to just ground this in a reality that THEY HAD ALREADY SET UP, I wouldn't have much of a problem. I guess I will have to see if their are deleted scenes.
As for the Joker escape, yeah, I didn't expect the guests to stop him, but surely someone would call the cops? He's the most wanted criminal in Gotham, someone who has been attacking from the shadows and now appears in plain sight. I would figure someone would notify the police. Maybe Senator Leahy could've called someone?
Take care all.
Someone may well have called the cops, but who really wanted to watch a scene of Joker running from cops with no batman involvment?
I frankly would have taken as many Joker scenes as possible.
But, your point is well-taken. I just felt it was odd, that they just sort of left this tense location to move on with no closure. Obviously he got away but with all the build-up, it seemed like a strange edit to just jump to the next scene which was several days later.
Take care all.
I would have punched you square in the nose. I love surprises.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freya
Being horrifyingly depressed at the end of a movie does not necessarily make it better. Hollywood's latest trend of fated-falls can be too much. Batman dying would've been a crime.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkBahamutBut I felt like it would've been a better movie in the end if he died.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi22Except for the fact that Bruce fixed the auto-pilot in the bat, went back for his mothers pearls, and at some point after the movie ended left the coordinates to the Batcave for Blake.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkBahamut
Seriously, between all of that and them outright showing him alive it's pretty clear that they're not trying to leave things ambiguous. He is alive.
As for my thoughts, I'm still processing everything a bit and plan to see it again on Tuesday once it's all sunk in, but my initial reaction is that that was my favourite of the three. Excellent way to end the trilogy.
Overall I think the movie and series Nolan made was amazing, it brought a much more emotional level to Batman is pretty unheard of. And I don't remember who posted about this, but I felt that whatsherface smurfing Bruce early on in the film was because how smurfing crazy she was. I didn't bat an eye at it.
I think it's a much better story that Bruce Wayne is able to go through an awful life event that haunts him for years, turn that turmoil into a positive thing for the people in his community and survive his ordeals ultimately content with life and able to find happiness without remaining a violent vigilante. That is a great ending to an amazing story.
The messianic martyr trope would've been absolutely disappointing in this case.
If I was your friend I wouldve hated you so muchQuote:
Originally Posted by Freya
edit: what shlup said
Thank you. Very tired of the "downer element in an ending automatically makes it a great movie" attitude. It's Batman. Not Requiem For A Dream.Quote:
Originally Posted by fire_of_avalon
I knew she was Talia because under her casting on imdb it said 'Talia al'Ghul'. I thought everyone knew it.
I stayed away from IMDB and Wikipedia for fear of spoilers. I would have been so pissed if I had read that beforehand.
Bane stole the show for me. He was like The Joker in that whenever he wasn't on the screen, I wanted him to be on the screen. A real menacing and enigmatic presence. His death was a travesty though. I also thought it went a little bit south towards the end, with Talia running away in a truck or something, and then repeated and unnecessary lengthy shots of Blake on the bridge. Blah blah he's the new hero and so dreamy and BOOOOOOOOORING, there is a smurfing nuke and batman and chases! I don't care about some kids being told to get back on a bus to give them hope or whatever.
I knew it just from looking at her. Also could it be possible that the ending was just a part of alfred's imagination?Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Murder
No, you shut up. Bruce Wayne lived out a happy life and Blake turns into Nightwing and takes on protecting Gotham and everybody is just happy in the end. :colbert:
Maybe if it had just been the bit with Alfred at the cafe, but the lines about the autopilot and the missing necklace pretty much shoot down that theory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Depression MoonI knew it just from looking at her. Also could it be possible that the ending was just a part of alfred's imagination?Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Murder