Just a minor update blurb...
I must say that if the story elements form P4 Arena are hinting to anything, it's that P5 might be something really grand for both the old school fans and new school fans. That or P4 Arena 2...
Anyway, since the dev team is working on the next installment, what are some things you would like to see in P5?
smurf YES MOTHER smurfERS!
And I'm not sure what to ask of this game. If it is indeed a follow up to P4 Arena, I don't know how they are going to pull off the Social Links again since it's all the same characters we've been with.
Really, if we get another game in the same style, I really hope they bring back the three types of Physical attacsk as well as keeping the side effects of each type that were added in 4.
I typically almost all things by Atlus.
Among a select few, Thousand Arms is one game I just couldn't part with when sticking all my other games in storage.
I'm sure it will be an original cast, but I wouldn't be surprised if characters from P3/4 show up in the background.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Big Hands
YES!!! This is one of the few things about P4 tht irked me, it really made several of the arcana not nearly as useful and I ultimately dropped Chie for like 90% of the game cause melee is just not useful for the Press Turn system in that game.Quote:
Really, if we get another game in the same style, I really hope they bring back the three types of Physical attacsk as well as keeping the side effects of each type that were added in 4.
I also want a more forgiving economy system than P4's. It's difficult to really customize when you have to scramble for funds all the time. Though I want to keep P4's shuffle card system, it was much more interesting and strategic than P3s.
I also want more bizarre Social Links. P4s were pretty tame compared to some of the weird nonsense going on in P3.
For the most party I think the social links in each were pretty evenly split, though Sun gives it to P3. That is easily my favorite social link.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf KannoI'm sure it will be an original cast, but I wouldn't be surprised if characters from P3/4 show up in the background.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Big Hands
YES!!! This is one of the few things about P4 tht irked me, it really made several of the arcana not nearly as useful and I ultimately dropped Chie for like 90% of the game cause melee is just not useful for the Press Turn system in that game.Quote:
Really, if we get another game in the same style, I really hope they bring back the three types of Physical attacsk as well as keeping the side effects of each type that were added in 4.
I also want a more forgiving economy system than P4's. It's difficult to really customize when you have to scramble for funds all the time. Though I want to keep P4's shuffle card system, it was much more interesting and strategic than P3s.
I also want more bizarre Social Links. P4s were pretty tame compared to some of the weird nonsense going on in P3.
*pelvic thrust*
I found P4's to be a little tame. The most amusing ones ended up being your more eccentric teammates (Kanji, Rise, Naoto) but I always felt a bit cheated by having your teammates acting as separate social links. I mean the Devil Social Link starts off amusing enough but then takes a 180 in a rather boring direction halfway through, unlike Tanaka who is the epitome of his arcana from beginning to end of your whole ordeal with him. It didn't help that two of P4's social links (Hermit and Empress) are basically taking the place of Elizabeth's requests Side Quests and don't amount to much in terms of meeting interesting personalities, I mean the Elizabeth dates made her a far more interesting and endearing character than Margarete's Social Link did for her. Sun is still pretty cool if you go the acting route, and Death is still amusing but the others are not quite as "OMG we're really going there are we?". There are some high quality social links in P4 (Nanako and Dojima for instance) but I don't feel that the whole package of social links are as good across the board compared to P3 which had maybe two or three really boring social links overall.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Big Hands
Honestly, I would love to see some expansion of the Social Links and perhaps put into account Reverse/Angry as a major factor, maybe have a bad link with someone can grant you some powerful Personas but with side effects. Or how about social links between social links? What happens if you try to hang out with two social links that don't like each other? Maybe do special group meet-ups like the ones in P4 to build camaraderie among all your social links to get access to other bonuses like additional XP bonus multipliers between arcana that are friends. There are some interesting possibilities in here. I also would like to deal with actual cheating since P3 ignored it and P4 made it impossible to do.
Also, fix the Navigator, while Fuuka may be more annoying that Rise to listen to, she's infinitely more useful since she actually scans enemies and tells you info whereas Rise only tells you what you learn through trial and error. :roll2
[QUOTE=Wolf Kanno;3111828]I will agree on Empress and Hermit. Those did seem kind of cop-out ish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Big Hands
And on the note of Devil, I won't say I though she was boring, but Tanaka was vastly superior.
I disagree on your party though. I Loved building social links with your individual group members and how that reflected upon their own persona's strength.
But Yes, there needs to be a bit more complexity to the Social Links.
I would love to have a dual Friendship and enemy paths, perhaps each leading up to a different Persona after the work rather then a stronger one with some side effects.
First, I want to see more Social Links. Give us more than a year, and give us more Links to develop.
Second, I want to see the addition of Battle Fusion. I've been plotting around with a system a little in my head, but I think it would be an interesting twist to the battle system.
Third, I want to see a continuation of the story of the blue haired boy. I really, really don't like the ending of Persona 3 FES, mostly because it feels like a shift from both the original P3 and P3P, where we are pretty much told that the protagonist will survive. Elizabeth is looking for a way to bring him back, and, frankly, after everything I've been through with the various social links, I can't believe any of your party would abandon you. Mitsuru Kirijo especially. The story of P3's protagonist just feels kind of in limbo to me, and I want some resolution. Granted, the character's arc may be complete, with the character having found their Answer, and the sacrifice. But with the soul still in existence, albeit as the seal, and with Elizabeth out questing for a way to free him, and Ryoji's last words, I still feel that we're waiting for something to happen.
Okay, Persona 3 and 4, with only the year in game, are easily the longest turn based RPG's I've ever played. Why, pray tell, would they need to turn around and make it longer? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Skyblade
And I will just say for now I am entirely in opposition to you saying that you don't like the ending of Persona 3 FES. I absolutely adored the resolution given by The Answer. And it was clear why the group hasn't revived him. If they were to do so, it would mean he would no longer be protecting us, thus allowing Nix to come do the thing she was trying to do, ending the world and what not.
Until enough of the world changes, and that Desire for Nyx is lessened greatly, they can't bring him back without causing the death of the world.
I wouldn't mind seeing a two-year duration. You could easily have a mini climax in the first year and then the realisation that things aren't over yet.
You can never have too much Persona!Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Big HandsOkay, Persona 3 and 4, with only the year in game, are easily the longest turn based RPG's I've ever played. Why, pray tell, would they need to turn around and make it longer? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Skyblade
And I will just say for now I am entirely in opposition to you saying that you don't like the ending of Persona 3 FES. I absolutely adored the resolution given by The Answer. And it was clear why the group hasn't revived him. If they were to do so, it would mean he would no longer be protecting us, thus allowing Nix to come do the thing she was trying to do, ending the world and what not.
Until enough of the world changes, and that Desire for Nyx is lessened greatly, they can't bring him back without causing the death of the world.
That's kind of the point. Right now, everything is sort of in a holding position. Erebus is still out there, it just can't reach Nyx, thus Nyx doesn't take humanity's will to survive. It's a stalemate, not really a resolution, in my mind.
Also, after the main character's initial victory, Ryoji tells the team not to worry, that things are going to continue for everyone, including both the main character and Ryoji, which is indicative that this is not the end of the protagonist.
Then too, as far as I can tell, Erebus has always existed, yet a seal was never before needed, because it was never strong enough to do anything. Or, perhaps, the feelings of despair that made up Erebus existed, but were scattered amongst the other repressed feelings of the billions of Shadows, and were only a threat when they got strong enough to unite, in which case it might be possible to break them up again.
I'm not sure. But as long as the main character and Erebus are locked in this eternal stalemate, I don't feel that this story has a proper ending. It has to be broken, one way or another.
The problem here is the battle that is required to 'resolve' that story is not one that can really be adresses by fighting. It's an emotion shared by countless people. A desire for an end. Are we going to be playing a game where the point is to go up to each individual and console them on their problems? Are we going to run for political office and fight to fix what ails the people of the world through better handling of government money?
P3 works it doesn't magically remove the negative emotions of people. Those emotions are still there, and likely always will be. MC was able to use the power of the Wild Card to prevent the world from having to deal with a creature who is constantly fueled by their own emotions, something that is pretty much a never ending source of power.
P4 works for a different reason. Firstly the fight, for the most part, isn't a battle against something so surreal as human emotion, it's a mystery where one individual is doing things for his own individual reasons. (There was more to it if you did the true end, but regardless it was something a bit more grounded in reason.) It was a plot that could, reasonably, have an conclusive end.
Really what I'm getting at is Persona isn't a power capable of saving MC, defeating shadows isn't a way capable of saving MC. The only thing that could do that is to change the will of people, to make the majority of the world feel as this no longer needs to happen. And to be honest I wouldn't want that to happen.
One of the things I love most about P3 and P4, notably P4, is that no matter what one goes through they will always carry around the more negative aspects of themselves. Even with powerful bonds formed, it's incredibly difficult to shake off ones personal demons. It takes a lot of extremes for your characters to overcome those.
Close personal bonds that take that much time and effort to form, and still a person isn't entirely able to let go of those weaknesses. How exactly is it reasonable to pull this off on a large scale?
I like the one year premise as NeoCracker said, the games are pretty damn long to begin with and I feel the pacing of the 1 years (really its more like 9 months for both entries) is pretty much perfect as it is long enough to get a lot done in both the story and gameplay, but short enough to make 100% completion very challenging on a first play-through. I mean the games thrive on New Game +.
As for Minato and the ending to the Answer, I'm with NC, I felt the Answer presented a pretty good conclusion to the P3 cast. Minato (P3 MC) found his answer and made his choice, and I feel the heroic sacrifice he made is fitting. Erebus is pretty much a standard Lovecraftian monster so I can't really see it going down without someone either wiping out mankind or forcing all of it to reach some perfect hive mind status. Considering Elizabeth is trying to stop it for good, I can see her contemplating either as a viable option. ;)
With that said, I don't think it's implausible that he may return in future installments. He's a very popular character with the fanbase and P4, and especially P4 Arena tease the player with the prospect of finding a way to free him, so I think it's very plausible Atlus would cater to the fanbase and find a way to set him free, but I kind of hope he keeps his ending. I am actually hoping that he would be a future DLC superboss for P4Arena, Elizabeth's comments about him in some of her victory quotes makes him sound frightening powerful.
I actually want fusion spells to return, I was pretty peeved that P4 and P3P dropped them for a far more tedious alternative. Though if they bring it back, do it like Persona 2 and have the fusion spells with other party members. If they are doing the party member social link thing still, just have it another convenient upgrade bonus.
I also hope they keep referencing the older games and having walk-on of older characters, though I would to see it expanded to earlier entries like have the party go to an indie band concert and see Ekichi's band from P2. Little things like that would be cool.
I also kind of hope that P3P gave them some ideas on how to utilize and expand the gender option cause I think it would be cool to play-through the game as a guy and then on NG+ play-through as a girl.
Also, remove the dizzy status effect and just return the Press Turn System back to P3 rules cause melee seriously loses its edge thanks to having to critical hit or exploit an elemental weakness twice on an enemy or character to lose a turn.Especially now that the game has implemented the ability for party members to help each other up when knocked down.
Keep the weather skill forecast system, it was neat and keep P4's version of the Shuffle Draw, it's way more interesting than P3s.
I dunno. I mean, Erebus only got so huge and powerful because of the despair of the situation. Ryoji's role as the Appriser, Strega running the cult, those drove people into the despair which fueled Erebus's power. I mean, the entire latter half of Persona 3 is focused on exploring this aspect, and the constant downward turn that the city, then the country, and eventually the whole world is taking. Yet, after the seal, that slows and stops. Yet the seal only prevents Erebus from reaching Nyx, it doesn't change people's feelings. The feelings change on their own, without the looming threat of the End, the preying of the cult, the Dark Hour, and the Shadows, people began to recover. During the two years since, the world has basically gone back to normal, as you can tell in Persona 4. Thus, Erebus too should have gone back to what he was before P3, when he existed, but was never a threat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Despite P4 having more powerful gameplay systems, Minato is implied to be one of the most powerful characters in the Persona-verse. As Yu's story shows, Elizabeth was just testing him, wielding strength greater than his in an attempt to judge his heart and his powers with the Wild Card. However, when she faces Minato, she flat out states that he is more powerful than she is, and that she never expected to find someone with greater strength than her.Quote:
With that said, I don't think it's implausible that he may return in future installments. He's a very popular character with the fanbase and P4, and especially P4 Arena tease the player with the prospect of finding a way to free him, so I think it's very plausible Atlus would cater to the fanbase and find a way to set him free, but I kind of hope he keeps his ending. I am actually hoping that he would be a future DLC superboss for P4Arena, Elizabeth's comments about him in some of her victory quotes makes him sound frightening powerful.
Yes.Quote:
I actually want fusion spells to return, I was pretty peeved that P4 and P3P dropped them for a far more tedious alternative. Though if they bring it back, do it like Persona 2 and have the fusion spells with other party members. If they are doing the party member social link thing still, just have it another convenient upgrade bonus.
Would be cool, but I'm not sure it's likely to see Persona and Persona 2 in there. They've been treating P3 as kind of the birth of the series (which fits in my mind, as I feel that's when the games became their own series rather than just a spin off of Shin Megami Tensei. I'd like it, but not sure how much we're going to see. Probably just minor things like Maya/Tatsuya from the Hermit Link.Quote:
I also hope they keep referencing the older games and having walk-on of older characters, though I would to see it expanded to earlier entries like have the party go to an indie band concert and see Ekichi's band from P2. Little things like that would be cool.
They definitely need to go back to 3 types of physical attacks. And I would be interested in seeing more female protagonists as well.Quote:
I also kind of hope that P3P gave them some ideas on how to utilize and expand the gender option cause I think it would be cool to play-through the game as a guy and then on NG+ play-through as a girl.
Also, remove the dizzy status effect and just return the Press Turn System back to P3 rules cause melee seriously loses its edge thanks to having to critical hit or exploit an elemental weakness twice on an enemy or character to lose a turn.Especially now that the game has implemented the ability for party members to help each other up when knocked down.
What specifically did you prefer about P4's Shuffle Time over P3's?Quote:
Keep the weather skill forecast system, it was neat and keep P4's version of the Shuffle Draw, it's way more interesting than P3s.
I want to see demon negotiation make a comeback!
I will say the cult didn't help the situation any, no, but the events of Persona 3 were largely unaffected by Strega's activity. Their existance had little to no impact on the events relating to Nyx and the Dark Hour.
Now I get to go into just why they were so awesome.
P3 had a very intangable force the characters were fighting against. It wasn't something with a plot, there were no intricacies to Nyx's plan, only it's coming. Strega, and Takaya most of all, was something P3 using as an antagonist. Takaya symbolized all of the reasons why Nyx was coming, and he embodied that role perfectly. He was a manifestation of what the players were fighting against, and something that would force them to realize the situation and move forward accordingly.
However he had nothing to do with whats happening now. Look at your own statement, the world now is as it was before P3.
It was years before P3 all of this started happening. The world a few years prior to P3 didn't see Strega in action, so we can safely assume they weren't the cause of anything. This shows Strega's utter irrelavance in terms of the state of the worl, regardless of their importance in P3's story.
(I feel that a character like Takaya is what Square enix intended Symore to be, only they failed horribly. :p)
Well put. I agree with what you said, but still have trouble phrasing exactly what I mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Big Hands
However, it doesn't change that as the world and its feelings are now back to the way they were before P3, then Erebus should be as little of a threat now as he was then.
And, man, FFX gets so much better if you replace Seymour with Takaya. You could even let him kill off Wakka or Kimarhi.
I'm afraid I can't answer all of your comments and questions Skyblade, but I can say that Elizabeth's story in P4 Arena shows that Erebus is still very much a threat. Mankind is still subconsciously wishing for the end, and I think a good real world example to show this is how much attention people give to apocalyptic theories like the Mayan Calendar, Nostradamus' Quatrains, and the Book of Revelations.
As for the Shuffle Draw of P4, I like that it gave more options including recreating the randomized upgrade/leveling/mutation system of P2. I also like that the negative effects kept the dungeons interesting. P3's system is practical and good, but I just found P4's to be a little more fun and have better rewards at the cost of some steep risks.
Atlus had better be working on P5, because finally making it to the end of some of the story paths in P4Arena, I get the feeling that the entire game is really just a setup for P5, and hoo boy, has it got a lot to live up to.
Unfortunately, I haven't completed every character's path, or unlocked Elizabeth's story yet, but I have to say, I am getting some very high expectations for the next game.
And it further strengthens my belief that they aren't done with the blue haired boy yet.
This game does too much work to fuse Persona 3 and Persona 4 together. Bringing together the characters is one thing, but connecting the adventures, bringing back the Dark Hour (as well as indicating in Akihiko's story that it may not truly be gone for good, as he talks about a disturbance that can never be fully healed), and the general setup they have that leads everything back to the place where it all began...
(SPOILER)The Moonlight Bridge, where Aigis fought Death, where the P3Protagonist was infused with Death's power, where the final Shadow battle was fought. Now Elizabeth is searching for a way to bring the protagonist back, and both the Investigation Team and the Shadow Operatives are heading there again?
Also, is anyone else wondering if Persona 4 Golden is going to include more hints? Is Maria, the new character, and the events added into the previously blank months going to foreshadow more of the future of the series?
But, yeah, bringing back old characters as playable is going to be hard enough. Bringing together both teams is going to be incredibly challenging to pull off, but I have faith that Atlus can do it. I just wish (probably in vain) that we'll get some save transfer ability, or at least some basic setup manipulation. Because, I have to say, one of the weirdest things about P4Arena in my opinion is how it ignores the relationships of Yu's Social Links. I understand that it probably wasn't worth it for a fighting game that is an intermediate story, but if the Investigation Team becomes playable in a full RPG again, and Yu has to start all over when romancing Naoto, I am not going to be happy.
I can understand, especially from a gameplay perspective, having to rebuild Social Links. It won't even be too hard to work from there if we assume that a single-round, all Social Links maxed playthrough is the canon base, that further relationships are developed on top of the old ones, but the romances were optional, and some indication of them needs to be built into the design.
This is true, but too many things nag at me. First, there's the small reason: I really like the character and want him back. But there are other, more important reasons as well, little things that nag me all around the ending. Ryoji tells us that the protagonist will continue. The protagonist's "true" Persona, Messiah, is mentioned specifically as both Death and Rebirth. The Arcana themes of the story end with Death, which is the midpoint of the story, not the end. Why do we stop at the Thirteenth Arcana? Elizabeth is searching for the Protagonist, and believes that with the Wild Card (which is a couple of times stated to be able to make the impossible possible), she could bring him back. Everything drawing back to Tatsumi Port Island.Quote:
Minato (P3 MC) found his answer and made his choice, and I feel the heroic sacrifice he made is fitting.
I'm not saying that his story wasn't complete from a character development standpoint. Just that, from the standpoint of the story, the conflicts, the world, it all feels like there is more to be told. Yu's development was complete as well. But, as Margaret says, just because you've finished one Journey, found one Answer, doesn't mean that a new one isn't waiting.
As a side note: I thought Aigis's personality module was formed around an item called a "Papillon Heart", not a "Plume of Dusk".
I want to see social links with party members actually having an impact on the in-story relationships between characters. I mean, it was weird in P4 when my MC was romancing Yukiko and she opened so much to him, and yet still behaved completely oblivious during the school festival...
Honestly, I don't see P4 Arena's story falling over completely into P5. I'm betting a sequel to P4Arena itself or more likely, some DLC events that will most likley wrap up most of the P3/4 casts stories. I'm not going to be surprised if the Kirijo group and several cast members make some high profile cameo appearances but I would bet it would be simialr to how P1's cast was utilized in Persona 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyblade
Well there is always the possibility that Yu simple chose not to be romantic with any of the girls. It is an option. I mean P3 MC and Yukari's relationship is technically canon but even looking at a lot of the concept artwork and how much the game really pushed the two of them together it was obvious that the creators meant for them to have a relationship but Yu in P4 doesn't have any of that. So it is very likely that Yu isn't romancing any girls because the creators chose to make thoses choses canon instead. Besides, his relationship with Yosuke is knee deep in Bromance territory as it is, and he is especially affectionate sounding when he talks about him in P4 Arena. ;)Quote:
But, yeah, bringing back old characters as playable is going to be hard enough. Bringing together both teams is going to be incredibly challenging to pull off, but I have faith that Atlus can do it. I just wish (probably in vain) that we'll get some save transfer ability, or at least some basic setup manipulation. Because, I have to say, one of the weirdest things about P4Arena in my opinion is how it ignores the relationships of Yu's Social Links. I understand that it probably wasn't worth it for a fighting game that is an intermediate story, but if the Investigation Team becomes playable in a full RPG again, and Yu has to start all over when romancing Naoto, I am not going to be happy.
I can understand, especially from a gameplay perspective, having to rebuild Social Links. It won't even be too hard to work from there if we assume that a single-round, all Social Links maxed play-through is the canon base, that further relationships are developed on top of the old ones, but the romances were optional, and some indication of them needs to be built into the design.
(SPOILER)Well not really, Nyx ends with the Arcana of death but Nyx is bringing forth death that mankind wishes for. The main character's story goes full circle with the Nyx Annihilation Team being the Judgement arcana and finally Minato pulled all his social links together to form the Universe Arcana when he reaches his Answer which is the same as the World Arcana just from the Thoth Deck instead of the more standard one. Minato did come full circle and he's technically not dead, he does live on as the seal that protects humanity from bringing destruction onto itself. He died and was reborn as mankind's salvation which fits nicely with his Ultimate Persona Messiah.Quote:
This is true, but too many things nag at me. First, there's the small reason: I really like the character and want him back. But there are other, more important reasons as well, little things that nag me all around the ending. Ryoji tells us that the protagonist will continue. The protagonist's "true" Persona, Messiah, is mentioned specifically as both Death and Rebirth. The Arcana themes of the story end with Death, which is the midpoint of the story, not the end. Why do we stop at the Thirteenth Arcana? Elizabeth is searching for the Protagonist, and believes that with the Wild Card (which is a couple of times stated to be able to make the impossible possible), she could bring him back. Everything drawing back to Tatsumi Port Island.Quote:
Minato (P3 MC) found his answer and made his choice, and I feel the heroic sacrifice he made is fitting.
Well there will always be more to be told in the overall story, largely because the people who inhabit the Persona world don't realize they are trapped in a Lovecraftian World where several godlike beings have it out for humanity. :D Still, I can't really imagine P3's MC having anything left to do though. I imagine Elizabeth will save him and simply take him to the Velvet Room with her. Yu has a bit more of an argument of returning but I feel it will be more likely that he may show up in the future as a prominent side character as opposed to starring in a new title for himself. I mean he met Margaret in P4 Arena but Igor is the one you need to make the pact with so likely the new journey is more symbolic than foreshadowing.Quote:
I'm not saying that his story wasn't complete from a character development standpoint. Just that, from the standpoint of the story, the conflicts, the world, it all feels like there is more to be told. Yu's development was complete as well. But, as Margaret says, just because you've finished one Journey, found one Answer, doesn't mean that a new one isn't waiting.
What I can say about what I've learned from P4 Arena (SPOILER)is that I really hope that the Malevolent Entity turns out to be Nylarthotep, I really loved him as a villain in Persona 2 and would love to see him return in all his glory, especially since we're bringing back the whole concept of Shadow sides which was first introduced in Persona 2.
And because I can, a direct comparison of Social links from P3 and P4! Who wins out!?
Magician
Yoske vs. Kenji - In the case of this, I’ll focus just on the social link, since Yoske is a playble, while Kenji is not, giving you a lot more time with him.
Kenji was rather amusing, though admitedly I’m baffled by how a high school student could be quite dumb enough to think a teacher wanted his penis. Kenji is mostly enjoyable for amusement purposes.
Yoske however has a lot more going on, playing off his history with Saki, and a lot more believable personal demons he’s dealing with. In addition he is funnier then Kenji.
P3 - 0 -------------- P4 - 1
Priestess
Yukiko vs. Fuuka
I really enjoy Yukiko. If I were to compare just the characters, Yukiko would win without a doubt. But this is about their social links, so I’ll try to minimize my own bias. :p
To start off though, as much as I love Yukiko, her social link isn’t that great. It’s decent, don’t get me wrong, watching her struggle and feeling as if she has no control over her life is a pretty good concept, but really it’s kind of bare bones.
However, in the case of Fuuka, having played P3 withing the past year, for the life of me I can’t remember a damn thing about Fuuka’s story other then you need max courage to eat her food. So, while neither one is great, I can at least remember Yukiko’s and found it enjoyable.
P3 - 0 _____________ P4 - 2
Empress
Mitsuru vs. Margret
Okay, this one is a no brainer. Margret has no real personal interactions, no lessons, no nothing. It’s just you making Persona’s so she can test your resolve. Kind of a cop out I think.
Mitsuru is fairly typical with her struggling with the her life being pre-determined. Really this resembles the Yukiko Social link a lot in theme, though I found the execution better. This is a clear point for P3.
P3 - 1 ___________ P4 - 2
Emperor
[I]Kanji Vs. Hidetoshi[I]
I’ll start with both of these social links are good.
Kanji has the growing struggle of coming to terms with his less then manly joys in life, and you have Hidetoshi being a rediculously strict law bringer type as the vice president.
For Kanji, you begin to see not only an acceptance of his joys as well as realizing that if he wants people to understand him, he needs to put in the effort to help them understand.
With Hidetoshi, he still holds onto his strong Ideals of Justice, though realizes he may have been trying to achieve them for the wrong reasons.
In the end, I was a lot more invested with Kanji, and he felt more genuine and deeper then Hidetoshi. So another point for P4.
P3 - 1 ______________ P4 - 3
Heirophant
Dojima vs. Old couple
Starting with Dojima, he is one of the best Social Links of P4. He is a man struggling to find his wifes killer, all the while becoming distant from the family he has left in pursuit. While he never finds the killer, he finally admits he was using this case as an excuse to hide from his own lonliness, and the feeling of everything being his fault as he was a cop unable to find the guy. It is very touching.
The Old couple is pretty amusing. The core of their social link Revolves around them having a hard time letting go of the past, and it is also very touching. However the actual problem they fight against feels distant, as you only hear accounts of it from them. It makes it a lot harder to connect with them then it is Dojima, so another point goes to P4.
P3 - 1 _______________ P4 - 4
Lovers
Yukari Vs. Rise
I’m really only going to touch on Rise here. Rise has a pretty mild Social link, pretty much her coming to terms with the Idol life, accepting she has multiple aspects of her personality and what not. Well done, just nothing special.
I’m not touching on Yukari’s social link, because she is a pain in the ass who seems to say tit just for the sake of being contrary and bitchy. smurf her. Point goes to P4.
P3 - 1 ________________ P4 - 5
Chariot
Chie Vs. Kazushi
Yeah, this is another one that’s not all that spectacular either way. I have even done most of Chie’s recently, and have a hard time remembering details. smurf, I don’t even remember raising her up to Social Rank 6. I like the character fine, but she’s kind of boring. Her hilights are more Shennanagins with Yoske then anything.
I remember Kazushi, but mostly because to build his S.Link faster you have to be an ass and encourage him to smurf up his knees for life. I don’t get this.
POINT FOR NO ONE!
Justice
Nanako Vs. Chihiro
The tale of a little girl who comes to realize she’s not as alone as she felt, and a Shy girl who learns to grow a spine and stand up for herself. I know Wolf Kanno before has said Justice was one of the better ones of P4, but I honestly don’t see it. It’s well done, don’t get me wrong, and Nanako is very enjoyable. But it’s pretty basic without any real surprises or unique twists.
That said, Chihiro is even more predictable and basic. As well as being a lot more stereotypical to her role (Boy scared nerdy girl) then Nanako. Nanako, while coming across as more responsible for her age, they never push it to far and she still acts as a naive girl that young should act. Chihiro runs away almost in tears when you ask her out....
Point for P4.
P3 - 1 ________ - P4 - 6
Hermit
Fox Vs. Maya
Alright, I really like the Fox. He amuses the hell out of me. That said all you do for him is random quests to raise the link. There really is no story building, so it’s pretty much a given P3 gets the point.
Maya is funny, especially when you realize who it is (I figured it the moment she revealed she was a teacher. :p) and is basically having issues with work and her own laziness. Mostly this is just amusing though, so it gets the point for having a decent story over no story.
P3 - 2 _____________ P4 - 6
Fortune
Keiske vs. Naoto
Again, ignoring Naoto’s involvement with main plot and focusing on the S.Link, we’ll compare the two.
Naoto’s revolves around her solving a strange theft of her home, and you helping her solve the mystery. You help her realize why she became a detective in the first place, and come to terms with a lot of the stigma’s put on her by being a women in a male dominated field.
Keiske, however, is kind of boring and blatently telegraphs exactly whats going to happen. Nothing comes as a surprise, nothing about the character is particularly interesting, and I’d venture to say it’s one of the weakest links of Persona 3. Point for P4.
P3 - 2 ____________ P4 - 7
Strength
Kou and Daiske vs. Yuko
This is one I enjoyed both of. Yuko fights through her own laziness, not seeing much of a point to put in the effort, and having no real goals. While it can very with strength, depending on which team you join (I’m going with Kou on this one), Kou feels like, since he was adopted and the birth of his sibling puts them in place to take over the family business instead of him, that he may not have a family, like they dont’ need him.
Both are well done tales, but in the end both Daiske and Koe are better develeped characters the Yuko, and the story told is a more developed and better told.
P3 - 2 __________ P4 - 8
[b][u]Hanged Man[b][u]
Naoki Vs. Maiko
I will give credit to P3 for making Maiko one of the best Child Characters in an RPG (Though Nanako I like more. :p). She feels like a kid her age should, and isn’t annoying. Her plight is a very real and understandable one, and her reactions to her parants divorcing feel genuine.
Naoki is struggling with both the death of his sister, as well as the a resentment towards Junes, the store he blames for causing his family so many hardships. As with Maiko, his reactions feel very real and understandable. This is probably the hardest one of these to choose. However it felt a bit contrivied you were able to start the social link with him given his initial reactions, so in the end I vote in favor of Maiko.
P3 - 3 _________ P4 - 8
Death (P4) vs. Star (P3)
Hisano vs. Mamoru
To explain why I am pairing them up this way, in P3 Death was raised by Default according to Plot, as is Star in P4. Star in P3 however is optional, as is death in P4. So I’m pairing the optional ones together.
Mamoru is one of the pretty typical ones of P3. Well written, he is one of the best athletes in Japan, however his family is impoverished. He must make a choice between pursing his goals, or working to help his family. They do a pretty good job and making you wonder how it will end up, even if nothing is really that riviting. Overall enjoyable.
Hisano is an old women grieving over her dead husband, and is one of the more complex and deep social links of Persona 4. She is battling a variety of emotions and is a really depressing story, probably the second most depressing of any social links in both games. It is absolutely wonderful. It’s not really a contest who gets the point here.
P3 - 3 ____________ P4 9
Temperance
Bebe’ Vs. Eri
I don’t like Eri, and I don’t like her kid. Their situation is very real feeling, a step mother raising her step son alone, basically, after having so little time to get to know him. This could have been great, but I really don’t have a reason to care for either of them. The mother is a bit of a dip, and you don’t really spend much time with the son.
Bebe’, on the other hand, is an excitable french foreigner obsessed with the culture, and doens’t want to move back to france. It’s really only enjoyable for Bebe’s amusing personality, though lacks in any real feeling of urgency for his plight. I at least enjoy Bebe though, so Point to P3.
P3 - 4 _______________ P4 - 9
Devil
Sayako Vs. Taneka
Alright, Sayako is a Nurse who has become disconected from her Job as a nurse, struggling a bit with the death she goes through daily that comes with the Job. Tanaka is a business mogel whose practices are Shady at best, who really only talks to you because he is afraid at first you may blackmail him.
So what we have here is a hot nurse who wants in your pants versus a middle aged busnessman who says things at first that make you wonder whether or not he wants in your pants. The winner is clear!
....Middle age business man?
Yeah, his S.Link is a lot more unique in nature, and really covers the description of the Devil Tarrot a lot better then Sayoka. I found his story a lot more intriquing, even if Sayako was enjoyable.
P3 - 5 _______________ P4 - 9
Tower
Shu Vs. Mutatsu
I’m amused that this is a battle between a old Bhuddist monk and a sheltered nerdy kid. Shu is afraid his mother will no longer love him if he fails to be the best, while Mutatsu is drinking away his problems over losing his family by focusing to much on work.
Both are well told, but while your friends are all to welcome to the Idea of crashing a small childs house to throw him a birthday party, Mutatsu never feels like there is a contrived moment. In addition, I always find problems involving children a bit more difficult to connect with. Shu is still very well told, but in the end Mutatsu feels a lot more Genuine.
P3 - 6 ______________ P4 - 9
Moon
Nozomi Vs. Ai
In both cases, they are among the weakest S.Links of their respective games. A fat kid who scams money. and a slightly skanky girl who likes to shop. Both seem to be dealing with some pretty severe low self esteem, but neither character is particularly likable, and it’s hard to give a damn about them.
Nozomi, however, has a massive issue with his S.Link. The whole thing about him charging younger kids money for a kind of Cultish salvation never really feels like it gets a conclusion. It’s just kind of dropped immidiately when you learn of his brother issues and not brought up again.
So Point goes to P4 for at least tieing up the S.Link.
P3 - 6 ________ P 4 10
Sun
Yumi Vs. Akinari
Yes, there is an alternate Sun route, but smurf it. I did it once, and remember nothing of it. So we go Yumi here.
Yumi is a girl whose father abandons them, and shows up while he’s dying to see them again. She struggles with feelings of abandonment, but also memories of her father being a gentle and kind man. This struggle is very well presented, and you really start to feel for the girls situation and want her to come out of it for the better. Absolutely wonderful social link, and I find it to be one of the most depressing, though it doesn’t rank up their with Misano.
However, this IS the most Depressing. Akinari is an ill youth who will inevitabley die. He suffers both from his illness, and feeling like his life lacked meaning. He speaks very poeticly and deep in thought, yet never comes across as pretentios. His illness forces him to suffer through a large array of mixed emotions. The ending to this social link is both sad and beautiful, and is easily the best S.Link in Persona. As great as Yumi’s was, it really can’t compete with this. (And I love the refferance to the Pink Alligator in Persona 4 made by Kanji. <3)
P3 - 7 ____________ P4 - 11
And with a final standing of Persona 3 at seven, and 4 at Eleven, Persona 4 comes out ahead!
Mind you, this is only in side by side comparisons. The score may be different if I scored each social link individually. :p
Edit: For that matter, each link ranked from 1-5, and the totals added up!
(SPOILER)
Persona 3
Magician: Kenji Tomochika - 3
Priestess: Fuuka Yamagishi - 2
Empress: Mitsuru Kirijo - 3
Emperor: Hidetoshi Odagiri - 3
Hierophant:Bunkichi and Mitsuko - 3
Lovers: Yukari Takeba - 1
Chariot: Kazushi Miyamoto - 2
Justice: Chihiro Fushimi - 2
Hermit: Maya - 3
Fortune: Keisuke Hiraga - 1
Strength: Yuko Nishiwaki - 2
Hanged Man: Maiko Oohashi - 3
Temperance: Andre Roland Jean Gérard (Also known as Bebe) - 2
Devil: Tanaka - 4
Tower: Mutatsu - 4
Star: Mamoru Hayase - 3
Moon: Nozomi Suemitsu (Gourmet King) - 1
Sun: Akinari Kamiki - 5
Total - 48
Magician: Yosuke Hanamura - 4
Priestess: Yukiko Amagi - 2
Empress: Margaret - 1
Emperor: Kanji Tatsumi - 4
Hierophant: Ryotaro Dojima - 4
Lovers: Rise Kujikawa - 3
Chariot: Chie Satonaka - 2
Justice: Nanako Dojima - 3
Hermit: Fox - 1
Fortune: Naoto Shirogane - 4
Strength: Kou Ichijo or Daisuke Nagase - 4
Hanged Man: Naoki Konishi - 3
Death: Hisano Kuroda - 4
Temperance: Eri Minami - 1
Devil: Sayoko Uehara - 3
Tower: Shu Nakajima - 3
Moon: Ai Ebihara - 2
Sun: Yumi Ozawa or Ayane Matsunaga - 4
Total - 52
Persona 4 - 52
Persona 3 - 48
Um, during the Sun link, you awarded a point to both sides.
However, new challenge:
Female MC's Social Links compared to those of P4.
I think it will flip your totals quite a bit. First, a number of the Social Links get swapped to your other SEES members.
Magician goes from Kanji to Junpei Iori
Justice goes from Chihiro to Ken Amada
Star goes from Mamoru to Akihiko Sanada
Strength goes from Yuko to Koromaru
Moon goes from Nozomi to Shinjiro Aragaki
However, there are far more changes than that.
Hermit goes from Ms. Toriumi to Saori
Chariot goes from Kazushi to Rio
Fortune goes from Keiske toDeathRyoji Mochizuki
Those are some big changes. Nearly every link you point out as weak or bland gets redone, with good reason and an excellent handling. Furthermore, nearly every Social Link is revamped due to the differing sexuality of the main character.
Basically, they took everything they'd learned from P3's and P4's Social Links, and worked on them to make the Female MC's. They had an opportunity to rebuild them, and they did.
Fuuka's, Yukari's, and Mitsuru's are no longer romances, so the interactions have a distinct change. Rather than Fuuka trying to win you as a paramour as she learns her cooking, she's working together with a classmate to explore and improve herself, leading to a very different feel. And Yukari's is also an excellent exploration of female bonding, rather than dating. Mitsuru's probably stays the closest to what it was, but during Rank 7, I think it is, when she starts to confront the issues of being bound by her sex, she gets to unload on you quite a bit because you're a female character.
The other members of SEES also have really solid Social Links. The guys, with the exception of Junpei (due to his relationship with Chidori), are romanceable, but the romances are optional, similar to P4's, as opposed to the male MC's "I can't be friends with a girl without sleeping with her" approach. And the Links are solid and well done on both paths. Most notable is Shinji's, which is easily one of the best in the entire game.
Check them online, or play through P3P with a female protagonist, but I think you'll find your numbers changing a bit.
Also, when P4Golden comes out, I'll expect another point added to the list, as we compare Aigis's to Maria's (yeah, Aigis wins. Unfair to call it? Perhaps, but Aigis's Social Link was frelling awesome).
I don't see myself playing through P3P, as I've beaten the hell out of P3 FES quite a few times. :p
And unless they change Yukari entirely, I refuse to admit she could be good at all, cause smurf Yukari.
I love the P3P Female social links :3
You should look up the P3P Female Social Links on YouTube. They are well worth watching.
Yay, finally finished Persona 4 Arena's story. Well, 99% of it, I seem to have missed one of the spin off paths. Let's see, I got Chie's, Yukiko's, and Kanji's... Does Yosuke have one?
Doubtful, and I would be extremely upset if this did happen.Quote:
Honestly, I don't see P4 Arena's story falling over completely into P5. I'm betting a sequel to P4Arena itself or more likely, some DLC events that will most likley wrap up most of the P3/4 casts stories. I'm not going to be surprised if the Kirijo group and several cast members make some high profile cameo appearances but I would bet it would be simialr to how P1's cast was utilized in Persona 2.
First, I don't think that the storyline would support DLC additions. Labrys's wishes made sense for things to orchestrate the fighting tournament. Further exploration of the rest of the story would be more difficult to work into the one on one fight structure in a way that would make sense. None of the groups are going to be going after the culprit alone, heck one of the main themes of the story is the power of friendship and how the bonds let you do things you can't do by yourself. Setting up another set of one-on-one fights would be difficult, and feel contrived when added to what we already have.
Second, the story is too big for DLC, or even likely another fighting game. The entire plot of P4Arena is a single event taking place in the TV world. It's a single rescue, the equivalent to one Full Moon challenge or a single character rescue in Persona 4. Important, yes, but only a small part of the whole. The ending gives us insight to a new villainous plan of massive scope, far closer to the much longer plots of the main games.
Third, it isn't the sort of expansion that you get in fighting game DLC or most fighting game sequels. Just a wrap-up wouldn't add in much in the way of characters, mechanics, moves, etcetera. Look at BlazBlue. The average DLC is an addition of a character, nothing more. I don't think we'd be looking at such a massive plot expansion in DLC, or, again, even in a whole other game. On the other hand, if they use this to set up Persona 5, then they have a much broader base of changes to work with when they make Persona 5 Arena.
Fourth, this is Atlus's first fighting game. It's story, awesome though it is, reflects its experimental nature. The story does a lot, but is largely stand alone, and in addition seems to set things up immediately for a sequel. I can't imagine Atlus would be planning to make another P4A game immediately after, no matter how well this one does. I think it for more likely that this game is setting up the events of Persona 5, which we already know they're working on.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it far more likely that this game is a setup for Persona 5 than that they are going to have something this closely tied in, and this experimental, suddenly become its own entirely separate spin off.
(SPOILER)If we bring back Nylarathotep, we have to bring back Philemon as well. And you really think that that is going to happen in just a spin off series? It does make sense though, he is an inhuman shapechanger who uses Shadow selves as his tools... Now we just need to find out what human he is working with. Someone with ties to the Kirijo group, but beyond that...Quote:
What I can say about what I've learned from P4 Arena (SPOILER)is that I really hope that the Malevolent Entity turns out to be Nylarthotep, I really loved him as a villain in Persona 2 and would love to see him return in all his glory, especially since we're bringing back the whole concept of Shadow sides which was first introduced in Persona 2.
(SPOILER)Also, Nylarathotep's voice actor in the PSP rerelease is also the voice actor for P4Arena's announcer.
Well, let's see. (SPOILER)Someone is trying to gather a large quantity of powerful Shadows. When has that happened before? Oh, right, twelve years ago, when the Kirijo Group did the same thing, resulting in the creation of Death and the start of everything that led to the Fall. And, as Elizabeth's story shows, the seal might not be enough to stop Erebus. Elizabeth, after all, moves in every time he reforms to destroy him before he can tear down the seal. Is she just trying to ease the MC's burden, or would Erebus be able to tear through the seal if left alone? In which case there is still definitely something left for him to do. But I don't think we're going to agree on this point, so let's just let it go for now. I do understand your point, after all.Quote:
Well there will always be more to be told in the overall story, largely because the people who inhabit the Persona world don't realize they are trapped in a Lovecraftian World where several godlike beings have it out for humanity. Still, I can't really imagine P3's MC having anything left to do though. I imagine Elizabeth will save him and simply take him to the Velvet Room with her. Yu has a bit more of an argument of returning but I feel it will be more likely that he may show up in the future as a prominent side character as opposed to starring in a new title for himself. I mean he met Margaret in P4 Arena but Igor is the one you need to make the pact with so likely the new journey is more symbolic than foreshadowing.
Incorrect. The pact is made with yourself, not with Igor. Igor assists guests who sign the contract, he does not offer them the contract to sign. "I choose this fate of mine own free will." That is the requirement. It is a pact with your self, to choose yoru future and to accept the consequences of your actions.
Huh, that's interesting. Sorry, was browsing the MegaTen wiki and this caught my eye.Quote:
■In Persona 4 Arena, the file name for the Plume of Dusk image contains the words "nyx_wing".
Damn it NeoCracker, I have limited PC time and you keep making posts that make me need to give you a e-smackdown. :p
It's the dialogue options in Yu's story. Basically you have to see all of them to get 100% so play through his story mode and just choose the top answers, then do another playthrough where you choose his bottom answers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyblade
Not really when you consider that (SPOILER)the malevolent entity can mind control people If it emerges as a the main antagonist then it can easily set-up another premise for a fighting game through its power.Quote:
Doubtful, and I would be extremely upset if this did happen.
First, I don't think that the storyline would support DLC additions. Labrys's wishes made sense for things to orchestrate the fighting tournament. Further exploration of the rest of the story would be more difficult to work into the one on one fight structure in a way that would make sense. None of the groups are going to be going after the culprit alone, heck one of the main themes of the story is the power of friendship and how the bonds let you do things you can't do by yourself. Setting up another set of one-on-one fights would be difficult, and feel contrived when added to what we already have.
You missed the part where I said a sequel may finish the P3/P4's cast major involvement, I never said it would complete the premise of P4 Arena, simply that a sequel to Arena could write the P3 and P4 cast members into playing more minor cameo roles in future Persona installments if it was done right. I'm pretty sure the (SPOILER) Kirijo Group, the Humanoid Anti-Shadow Weapons, and the Malevolent Entity will play a part in future game installments. Ultimately, I am simply hoping that P5 features a mostly original playable cast as I don't feel I would care to play as Yu and the Investigation Team again.Quote:
Second, the story is too big for DLC, or even likely another fighting game. The entire plot of P4Arena is a single event taking place in the TV world. It's a single rescue, the equivalent to one Full Moon challenge or a single character rescue in Persona 4. Important, yes, but only a small part of the whole. The ending gives us insight to a new villainous plan of massive scope, far closer to the much longer plots of the main games.
Except Atlus is calling the shots as the owner of the IP, so we can't really look at Arc Systems' model for proof of a minor DLC. The game has done phenomenally well apparently and I wouldn't be surprised if that alone would convince Atlus, Arc System, and the Persona Team into considering a sequel or possibly more expansive DLC entries. Besdies if Arc System is doing all the heavy lifting, it would be pretty easy for the Persona Team to have them pump out another game while they spend their own resources working on P5.Quote:
Third, it isn't the sort of expansion that you get in fighting game DLC or most fighting game sequels. Just a wrap-up wouldn't add in much in the way of characters, mechanics, moves, etcetera. Look at BlazBlue. The average DLC is an addition of a character, nothing more. I don't think we'd be looking at such a massive plot expansion in DLC, or, again, even in a whole other game. On the other hand, if they use this to set up Persona 5, then they have a much broader base of changes to work with when they make Persona 5 Arena.
Yes but the success can make them change their mind, its not uncommon for an IP to change consoles, genres, and direction throughout its production. For all we know, this game is setting up the plot for a side project in the Persona Universe that could be its own full JRPG as opposed to just being for Persona 5. Though I agree that it is more likely the premise for Persona 5. I simply wish to bring the light that it's possible this story could be going into a side project as opposed to a full numbered installment. Of anything, it's too early to know is all I am saying.Quote:
Fourth, this is Atlus's first fighting game. It's story, awesome though it is, reflects its experimental nature. The story does a lot, but is largely stand alone, and in addition seems to set things up immediately for a sequel. I can't imagine Atlus would be planning to make another P4A game immediately after, no matter how well this one does. I think it for more likely that this game is setting up the events of Persona 5, which we already know they're working on.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it far more likely that this game is a setup for Persona 5 than that they are going to have something this closely tied in, and this experimental, suddenly become its own entirely separate spin off.
Well the director has confirmed that Philemon is still there as the butterflies still serve as his avatar in P3 and P4. So the director has confirmed he's still exists in the later Persona Universe. He's just taking a back seat and I don't blame him after what he did in P2. I'm sure most fans would love to give him another thrashing.Quote:
(SPOILER)If we bring back Nylarathotep, we have to bring back Philemon as well. And you really think that that is going to happen in just a spin off series? It does make sense though, he is an inhuman shapechanger who uses Shadow selves as his tools... Now we just need to find out what human he is working with. Someone with ties to the Kirijo group, but beyond that...
He's also the same voice actor for the (SPOILER)Malevolent Entity according to the MegaTen Wiki. ;)Quote:
(SPOILER)Also, Nylarathotep's voice actor in the PSP rerelease is also the voice actor for P4Arena's announcer.
Yet Elizabeth herself states how Erebus can be stopped for good and mentions that fixing humanity's heart may not happen until the distant future. Even The Answer states its something that will probably not be accomplished in the P3 casts lifetime or even in future generations because we're talking about changing the collective whole of mankind's nature. It is interesting to note that she just hint that Aigis may help her in the future which is interesting since Aigis can potentially outlive most of the human cast.Quote:
Well, let's see. (SPOILER)Someone is trying to gather a large quantity of powerful Shadows. When has that happened before? Oh, right, twelve years ago, when the Kirijo Group did the same thing, resulting in the creation of Death and the start of everything that led to the Fall. And, as Elizabeth's story shows, the seal might not be enough to stop Erebus. Elizabeth, after all, moves in every time he reforms to destroy him before he can tear down the seal. Is she just trying to ease the MC's burden, or would Erebus be able to tear through the seal if left alone? In which case there is still definitely something left for him to do. But I don't think we're going to agree on this point, so let's just let it go for now. I do understand your point, after all.
As for the similarities from P4 Arena and P3 in terms of the villains motive, it doesn't necessarily concern the MC of P3. Of anything, this may just be showing that the (SPOILER)Malevolent Entity was manipulating the Kirijo group even back then. Similar to how P2 retcons P1 Persona 2 spoilersby having it revealed that Nylarthotep manipulated Kandori and the Nanjo Group to create the Deva System. . Of anything, I feel the scenario is simply tying all the games together and serving as another amusing shout-out to the earlier games.
You are right, but it's Igor who helps serve the one who signs the contract and Yu didn't sign anything in P4 Arena like the main protagonists of P3 and himself in P4, of anything Margaret contacts him of her own volition. He found his answer and while his journey may continue he no longer needs the help of the Velvet Room. This is why I feel he will not return as a MC for future installments.Quote:
Incorrect. The pact is made with yourself, not with Igor. Igor assists guests who sign the contract, he does not offer them the contract to sign. "I choose this fate of mine own free will." That is the requirement. It is a pact with your self, to choose yoru future and to accept the consequences of your actions.
Its what I do wolfy. :p
So why do you spend the whole post fussing at me? :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Sorry, I didn't mean to indicate that he was no longer in universe, I know he's the blue butterfly. But he doesn't really exist as a character. And I don't think that you can bring back one of them without bringing back both, which would be a pretty hefty job to load on a spin off.Quote:
Well the director has confirmed that Philemon is still there as the butterflies still serve as his avatar in P3 and P4. So the director has confirmed he's still exists in the later Persona Universe. He's just taking a back seat and I don't blame him after what he did in P2. I'm sure most fans would love to give him another thrashing.Quote:
(SPOILER)If we bring back Nylarathotep, we have to bring back Philemon as well. And you really think that that is going to happen in just a spin off series? It does make sense though, he is an inhuman shapechanger who uses Shadow selves as his tools... Now we just need to find out what human he is working with. Someone with ties to the Kirijo group, but beyond that...
Is he? I thought so, but hadn't gotten a chance to confirm.Quote:
BTW, I'm not saying that we're going to be playing as the Investigation Team again. But I think they're going to be a large part of the game, one way or another. I think their appearance is going to be quite a bit larger than the previous cross-game cameos.
I'm not sure whether I want them to be playable again or not. I didn't like the Investigation Team as much as I liked SEES, but I still liked them. And I would be curious to see how Atlus would handle a game with recurring characters. I could see it going either way. But I'm going to guess, at the very least, that we get some Social Link interaction with at least some characters from both P3 and P4.
I'm also wondering if the age of the playable characters may shift. Because if we aren't playing as the Investigation Team, the next step would probably be to play as the Shadow Operatives... And that could be interesting.
Skyblade - answering speculation is a bit easier than doing a full on analysis of all the social links between three games. Onto other things...
I don't think it would be terribly difficult to re-introduce either of them. (SPOILER)I mean Philemon usually makes about 2 appearances max in all three titles he shows up in anyway. Technically Nylarathotep and the Shadows are synonymous in origin as well. So I don't think it would too terribly difficult unless they were going to try to connect all 4 games together, then it might get a bit complicated.
It will be interesting to see how they write in the Shadow Operatives and Investigation Team into the future titles. I'm also curious to know if the fact the Investigation Teams Ultimate Personas are not canon either(Only Yu has his Ultimate Persona in P4Arena) or if this will become a future retcon as well.
I did think of another thing I would like to see, more gameplay benefits from the social link choices, specifically when you choose a sport team. Think of it like this. Your character chooses to join the Kendo club, so this allows them to use the Katana weapons, but they also get special benefits or items for using the weapon as well like adding strength or Agility bonuses when equipped with the weapon or giving them a higher critical hit rate as the sub-ability for their weapon. Maybe choose to make them join an archery club and get similar benefits from using a bow. Stuff like that. Maybe even find ways to give bonuses and more customization options to your other party members like the new Bike Riding Date mechanic in Persona 4 Golden.
I also want them to finally put in a music player into the game. Both Persona 2 entries had one, and P3 even has a music store that can't be used for anything and got my hopes up. I want to buy CDs again and listen to them in my characters bedroom.
While reviewing the P3 Social Links and ending, I had an interesting idea.
I want the ability to recruit my team based on which Social Links I choose.
Going over several of P3's Social Links, what you wind up doing with them is not that dissimilar from what you do in Persona 4. You work out internal issues the characters have, get them to face things about themselves that they didn't want to address.
The Hermit Link from P3P was the first one I thought about this way, when I was reviewing it on a NG+ playthrough, because Ms Toriumi really does go through quite a large review of her life in that link, reviewing how she acts, why she was complaining, what she really had problems with, etcetera.
According to Elizabeth, that's what the potential is. So shouldn't she have awakened to a Persona at that point?
Imagine if you could actually choose your party members by helping them awaken to their Personas. Social Links aren't just to strengthen your own Personas, but they help build and strengthen your entire team.
It's not going to happen, it'd be way too much trouble, but I think it'd be awesome.
Yeah, but not all of the victims you save actually acquire Persona's after you face them, not to mention Yu and Adachi obtained Persons without facing their Shadow selves. Likewise Strega, utilized drugs to create the potential phenomena, and even the S.E.E.S. members themselves are all pretty screwed up yet still possess the potential. Part of me was actually thinking about this earlier, as to whether the Investigation Team members actually experienced the Dark Hour or not. It's likely they didn't since Junpei himself only manifested the ability to see the Dark Hour rather recently, whereas the game implies the P3 MC possessed the ability to see the Dark Hour since he was a child.
With all that said, I feel it just shows that having the ability to use a Persona is a special gift that goes beyond one being able to come to terms with themselves. The rules from P3 don't quite add up to P4's rules as characters like Mitsuru already obtain their true ultimate form for their Persona before you can even establish a social link with her. So in truth, the recent series haven't really given a very conclusive formula to determine how one obtains the potential.
As for the gameplay idea, my only issue with it is that it would probably slow the game flow or seriously alter how social links. It would really slow down the beginning of the game. Still, its an interesting idea and I can see how it could work as long as it was designed to have a set story party and then have the alternate Persona characters count as special side characters as opposed to full on party members.
I am pleasantly surprised by the way the Persona series carries itself in a fighting game. The game is being picked by the fighting game community and it will be played at fighting game tournaments for years to come, provided that the game is not patched too lightly or heavily. The game does a good job of continuing the stories presented in Persona 3 and Persona 4, too, which is surprising since most fighting games are not heavy on story.
I think, though, because of the success of the fighting game that there will definitely be some kind of update or sequel to Persona 4 Arena -- so are those story elements to be added, possibly, being incorporated to Persona 5? I mean, I guess I'm wondering how much of the story is planned out right now. There are a lot of different directions it can take.
True, but it depends on how it's implemented. I mean, sure if you had to reach Rank 10 to recruit someone, yikes, that would slow things down a ton. But what if someone unlocked their potential at, say, Rank 3, and only unlocked their ultimate Persona at Rank 10?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
And, yeah, you would need a default story party, but I still think it's a cool idea. :)
The other thing I want back is Persona 3's user-friendly dungeon exploration options. I actually liked telling my party to either attack enemies without me (to help level quickly) and to explore the dungeon to cut down on time since the Persona series is a notorious dungeon crawler. Also changing the music to remixed Persona game themes in the dungeons is pretty cool too if you start getting bored with the dungeon theme. Tartarus was pretty bad but I also would have liked that option for Yukiko and Kanji's dungeons in P4.
I also want Persona upgrades for my party to be story based instead of just the Social Links, largely cause the storybased upgrades are just more dramatic and endearing. Yosuke realizing he should stop worrying about his problems is not nearly as compelling as (SPOILER)Akihiko saying his last goodbye to Shinji or Junpei going into a feat of rage after Chidori's death. Now if they want to bring back the Prime Persona's like they had in P2 and have those be the prize for Social Link completion, I wouldn't mind that at all. I know that Persona 4 Golden is kind of playing with the idea.
Also, playing through P3 again with its bizarre harem dating system makes me feel that after doing such a great job with Catherine, it might be interesting to actually allow your character to try to cheat (with obvious bad consequences if caught). I'm just curious to see what a system like that would be like though I know 90% of players would avoid it.
It would be cool if P5 put us in a college or university setting instead of high school. Maybe if the characters were slightly above 18 years old, Atlus would be able to do more... terrible... stuff to them and get away with it. After all, they are adults!
Well hey, now there's an idea. College kids this time!
Considering the series is 18+ in most countries, I can't fathom what Atlus could do to make it more adult without sending it into AO rape/gore/sex simulator. ;) Which would severely limit its sales cause AO titles usually do abysmal compared to other ratings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
College could be an interesting idea though.
But then they wouldn't be able to make the characters wear those fabulous uniforms, which are a serious selling point, at least in Japan. Though personally, I would also rather see an older cast with more adult issues. I believe they could pull it off, but at this point it's probably just wishful thinking...
Persona 2 Eternal Punishment actually has an adult cast with adult issues, so let's pray the PSP port gets released since finding the PS1 copy is a bit difficult nowadays. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by The White Wizard of Fynn
Honestly, I don't mind keeping it in high school cause largely its convenient for the social link system, but it doesn't mean I don't think it would be cool to try to expand the concept to older types of characters.
Yeah, and it can be kind of hard to introduce an adult cast member to the young party without really throwing off dynamics and relationships of the team, especially in a game like Persona. It could be done, but it would be tricky. I think they're actually doing a good job of it by setting up the Shadow Operatives and such. If the entire organization is made up of approximately university-level students, that gives great potential for some older characters fitting in with the situation already.
I hope they follow the trend in 3 and 4, and also that they add a female protagonist.
(IMO 2 was terrible)
I'm curious to know why you dislike it so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypoallergenic Cactuar
Me too. I'm playing Innocent Sin right now and I must say it's pretty awesome.
Yes, I would like to see older characters, too. I didn't like the fact that they played around with the idea of getting the characters drunk in Persona 4 only to back off because they are underage and have them get "drunk off the atmosphere" -- something that I'm not entirely sure is possible considering two of them were turning red akin to alcohol flush reaction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
Yes, that was pretty silly.
IMO, that made the scene funnier. Whether that's actually possible or not, I found it amusing that they found a way to get them self subconsciously drunk, even though no alcohol was consumed :DQuote:
Originally Posted by RoogleYes, I would like to see older characters, too. I didn't like the fact that they played around with the idea of getting the characters drunk in Persona 4 only to back off because they are underage and have them get "drunk off the atmosphere" -- something that I'm not entirely sure is possible considering two of them were turning red akin to alcohol flush reaction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
Catherine made me pretty excited about the idea of seeing more mature themes explored in the Persona series.
I'm not sure what you mean by Mature. Persona's 3 and 4, while they were dealing with High School kids, had very deep and meaningful plots. Hell, look no further then Shinjiro in Persona 3.
On another note, something has changed in my thoughts on Persona 4 in the newest playthrough.
Firstly, I'm some what bothered by the lack of use of Chie. Mind you, even though I like her she's easily my least favorite member of the team. That said, whats the point in her being here? It feels like if she just disappeared from the main plot nothing would change. Yukiko, at least, serves as an important piece to the plot later on. (SPOILER)Namatame reveals she was the first one he threw in the TV.
Kanji, oddly enough, is a voice of reason when the party starts getting flustered, and is able to calm everyone down, as well as being effective at intimidating information out of people.
Really, every character has a purpose except Chie, so she feels like unnescessary filler to your group, and that bothers me a bit.
Another thing, my love of Yukiko is still strong, but she's overshadowed by another in the game. There was something big I had to get over to realize this, big for me at least. It may not have bothered other people. This will involves spoilers about Naoto for those who haven't played the game.
(SPOILER)Naoto is a girl. I knew this the moment I saw the character portrait. The voice is obviously feminine, albeit lower in pitch. And for some god awful reason EVERYONE thinks Naoto is a guy. She is not. She is a very pretty lady. I was smurfing pissed the game kept trying to push that Naoto was a guy when she obviously wasn't. It's stupid. I hate that damned anime trope because it vary rarily passes as male, yet the whole smurfing world in the show is fooled.
Now, the actual Story behind why Naoto does all this is absolutely wonderful, and now that I'm over that damned infuriating aspect of the story, she usurped Yukiko.
She is a strong female character, her worries and concerns are very real, and best of all she is a bad ass. Setting herself up to get kidnapped was just brilliant.
NaotoI could believe Naoto was a guy because I've seen enough girly anime dudes to let it slide. Of course once "he" got thrown into the TV it became obvious right away.
NaotoI watch a lot of anime as well, and seen many a girly boy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessweeee♪
Hell, on a slightly different note, I could buy that The Ouran Host Club Girl could pass for a guy.
Still I can't buy that from Noato. :p
Edit:
more on Naoto
Okay, Ouran is a bad example, as that is a comedy and it's suppose to be ridiculously silly. :p
Though really I hold higher standards in many regards to a game like Persona then a silly, comedy series. (Though it is one of the funniest animes ever. :p)
Chie's main purpose was being the heart of the group, in my opinion. Her relationship with Yukiko is one of the more realistic depictions of true friendship in any video game and she is basically the first to tell you about trying out the midnight channel and all the other fun stuff.
Hopefully P5 will have a battle system more like the second game(s), but also with the One More and weakness systems from 3 and 4.
Social Links I couldn't really care less about. If they put 'em in, fine, if not, no big whoop.
I'd really like to see the Evokers come back, because frankly, shooting yourself in the head to summon a Persona is the best thing ever. :jess:
Also, I also think Chie is kinda useless to the story, but ironically she provides some good comic relief, and is also the most neutral of the group, so it's easier to relate to her because of that.
I prefered the 3 battle system.
She kind of fails at being the 'heart' of the group though. Both Yosuke and Kanji do a better job at helping the team think clearly when they are frustrated. Honestly Yosuke is much more apt to be called the heart of the team then Chie is.Quote:
Originally Posted by The White Wizard of Fynn
NaotoYes, Naoto is awesome. I also jumped to "female" as soon as I saw her, but I didn't really have a problem with the way they portrayed it. I can understand cultural differences or gameplay simplification. And, again, Naoto is awesome, which makes up for a lot.