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Not including Ramza. Also possibly excluding Orlandu, because he is too badass.
I always use generics and ignore most of the story characters, but I often like to use Mustadio after you first get him, because guns are just cool. He quickly falls behind everything else in terms of effectiveness, but it is fun to occasionally disable enemies with one shot.
Do you regularly bother with the story characters? Who's your favorite?
I usually lay out any conditions for what classes/characters I am using right at the start of any given playthrough. Usualy I am trying to handicap myself to spice things up, so special characters are the first thing to go. Though I do enjoy to just power through the game every once and a while.
But even if I go for a 'no special characters' playthrough I allow Mustado because he doesn't offer all that much more than a generic. And theoretically Raffa and Malak, but I think leveling them up from the point you get them in the game makes them significantly worse than generics.
I've always used generics before since they're usually farther along in their job classes once you start getting story characters worth using. Orlandu was always the exception of course. On my current playthrough I made the conscious decision to start using as many story characters as possible. Some of them certainly have some neat abilities.
Most of my playthroughs have been with generic crews, whether they be all chocobo, ninja, or whatever because you get a lot of control over a unit's evolution that way. When you get those unique guys, they have a strange original job that you have to work into your battle plans and that throws off everything. It can be hard to decide where Mustadio's Snipe or Rafa's Truth is best played into your style, and I found it simpler to ignore them initially.
Nowadays, I do enjoy the unique characters and their jobs. Other than occasionally rolling with a crew of generics named after crews of friends, I use story characters when they appear (but not Orlandu, that cheap bastard) and start phasing out my generics; goodbye, Wulfhilda, and hello, Rafa. This makes the game more varied and forces the player to fight in ways they may not have. I like that.
I like to use the story characters and a single black mage.
I for some reason always read Mustadio as Moustachio.
I always use the story characters. When I get Agrias I use her until I eventually upgrade with Orlandu. I also use Reis, Beowulf (third best character in the game, maybe second best), Meliadoul, even that bastard Cloud. Balthier in the PSP version is pretty awesome as well. My party typically goes with Ramza, two generics, and the rest story characters.
:greenie: I always use the story characters because they matter with the story, while generic units are just "soldiers", no matter how strong they could be... The PSX version is also very limited in unit slots and you can't keep all the story characters/monsters and also the starting generic units!
There are Rad, Lavian and Alicia that are both story and generic and I give them the classes I can't avoid to have in any Final Fantasy: Thief/Ninja, Black Mage/Time Mage and White Mage/Summoner...
I'm used to combine the other generic classes with the story character classes!
Agrias is also a common Knight with Battle Skill for example... The Knight command goes as the secondary command...
For Mustadio I apply the usual Machinist/Chemist combination I usually apply when I have a gunner (also Vincent, Irvine, Balthier, etc.) and Chemists use guns even here...
I don't know if it's suited or not but I setup Malak to be also a Monk, making him actually strong... His Hell Knight class has a somewhat oriental feeling and his "spells" resembles more KI moves than magic...
It's not to be even mentioned that Reis is also a Dragoon with spears and Jump... :p
But always as a secondary command inside their natural class...
Beowulf and Cloud are both cool to use. Worker 8 and Balthier if I'm feeling cheap.
Worker 8 is basically an anti-caster! XDQuote:
Originally Posted by Jaffer
Balthier of the PSP version is Engineer and Thief fused together if I remember correctly...
I'd always put so damn much into my units by the time I start getting Story Characters, my smurfs could not be lower for raising them up too. :p
Edit: Which is sad, cause I'd always intended to use the Heaven and Hell Knights, cause their abilities are awesome.
I use them a lot! More Malak than Rafa though but still...Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoCracker
Their original classes abilities are cool but quite unpredictable! They seem to have an oriental look, so I give them support basic classes that are both oriental...
Malak to be also a Monk (with Punch Art and Martial Arts he starts to really kick ass) and Rafa to be also an Oracle that is a Mage with oriental attire...
The physical one that benefits low Faith and magical one that benefits high Faith... This makes also their original skill to be maximized...
Yes, I actually play the game outside of Chapter 1 with only characters provided by the story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
I like Rapha and Marach a lot because they are the first provided characters aside from Ladd who have magical skillsets, finally giving me a chance to play around with more command sets.
Actually Marach benefits from low Faith so he could be more a warrior than a Mage but sub-classes like Monk or Geomancer works great on him...
Ladd could be made a Mage but he is almost like any generic unit!
The Faith status allows him to bypass his low Faith when spellcasting while still allowing Nether Mantra to work properly, at least.
Holy crap, I didn't know the 'Faith' status effect worked in reverse for Malak's special abilities. This makes him almost worth considering using on par with generics.
EDIT: That sounded snarky. I mean that he still isn't as good as other special characters, but now isn't worse than generics.
Yes but don't you think it's quite too intricate?! He can even give the Innocent status to opponents (with Gokuu Rod) before using Hell Knight skills on them but again it's abstruse to have to give a status to deal damage!Quote:
Originally Posted by Roogle
Isn't it wiser to give him a sub-Job that benefits from low Faith rather than a casting class?
That's why I gave him Monk class... It's a class that works well with low-Faith, characterization-wise it seems fitting to Malak's attire and it's also independent from White Magic to receive heals, it has it's own heals often more effective than magic itself...
Also Geomancer works well with Malak because it's a form of magic based on Mag stat but unrelated to Faith!
Not exactly, some melee classes can benefit from low Faith with magic immunity and this is Malak case! He can be a sort of caster with magic immunity and another class, may it be Monk that is perfect as not-magic-dependent character, or Geomancer, another sort of caster that uses the Mag stat but not Faith!Quote:
Originally Posted by VeloZer0
Of course you can give him simply two generic classes and he is equal/better to/than generics, but his special class works well with low Faith and another class not magic dependent!Quote:
EDIT: That sounded snarky. I mean that he still isn't as good as other special characters, but now isn't worse than generics.
Ah, but no special characters get to use Accumulate, which makes leveling them much more of a pain in the ass. So if I don't get something good in trade off for loosing the squire job class then I consider them worse than generics.
The main problem is that the best classes to pair him with are stuff like Monk / Geomancer. However neither of those are all that great on their own right. Monks suffer from their lack of ability to equip equipment, and while Geomancers aren't a bad class they are also very difficult to tweak out and make good. Sure you can make him to suck, but it just seems like a lot of extra work and run around to get something not appreciably better than a generic.
Yeah, perhaps you have a point on this! Of course you can unequip weapon and hit your tank to gain JP (exp is really not needed, it's better to stay low with level like in FFVIII) dealing small damage but nothing can match Accumulate (that is also useful to deal more damage for melee classes)...Quote:
Originally Posted by VeloZer0
Well, I find Monks to be actually very strong even on their own! They deal consistent damage and the Punch Art command has some really useful skills! Oh well, maybe I'm a Monk fanboy but...Quote:
The main problem is that the best classes to pair him with are stuff like Monk / Geomancer. However neither of those are all that great on their own right. Monks suffer from their lack of ability to equip equipment, and while Geomancers aren't a bad class they are also very difficult to tweak out and make good. Sure you can make him to suck, but it just seems like a lot of extra work and run around to get something not appreciably better than a generic.
I also tried Malak with Elemental sub command and giving him a caster staff! It works also well as a low-Faith mage paradox! XD
What I mean is not to turn him into Monk/Geomancer, just to clarify! I leave him Hell Knight and I give him Martial Arts support ability... He keeps the Hell Knights equip set but fights unarmed like a Monk with Punch Art as sub command! I leave every special character with their original class and I give them other classes just by sub commands and support abilities! :)
With Punch Art and Martial Arts he gets to be really good! With low Faith he can be a good melee with also healing skills, independent from magic and immune to it and with his Un-Truth that is effective thanks to low Faith!
He can be also a good Monk if you give him poles that he can equip as Hell Knight but they are also Monk traditional weapons! As you can see, everything fits well! :D
If you compare unarmed attacks on a monk to what you can do with end-game weapons the monk comes up severely lacking. Even worse is the fact that a ninja can do more damage unarmed without the 'Unarmed' skill, and have higher speed and move to boot. Also the 'Punch Art' skills scale very poorly at higher levels. Unarmed damage takes off exponentially as PA rises, but growth of the actual skills slows to a crawl.
It isn't a bad skill to compliment Malak's ability, but it is being used in a sub-optimal way in order to justify using Malak in the first place.
Yes, you're right, although Monk remains more than decent, he tends to suffer the overgrowth of weapons like also Mages do in every Final Fantasy...Quote:
Originally Posted by VeloZer0
That's why I organize things to keep weapons power low and valuate both fists and magic/skills at the same time... I opened a thread about this aspect and I link it for you if you want to discuss this aspect:
http://home.eyesonff.com/general-fin...amage-cap.html
I can just say here that leaving weapons low in power unarmed attacks stay strong and also spells (but this advantage Monks and Mages have on armed characters it's balanced by me by the fact that Mages are physically weak on their own and Monks are left unarmored and thus very exposed to harm being melee units)...
About Punch Art... It's true that without the initial weapons strategy it gets poor damage wise but its true power lies in its healing skills... Chackra, Stigma Magic and Revive are great considering their effect/cost relation...
Yeah, of course, if someone whats to give space to story characters! You can even turn him in the Ninja/Monk killing machine if you want him to be strong but I prefer to give him the Hell Knight/Monk combination since his attire and main skill are very oriental and suited to be associated to Monk... But also Hell Knight/Geomancer works well and makes him more oriented on the magical side, although without the need of Faith...Quote:
It isn't a bad skill to compliment Malak's ability, but it is being used in a sub-optimal way in order to justify using Malak in the first place.
I don't think we will ever see eye to eye in a thread as you prefer the aesthetic aspects of the fantasy whereas I view 'class' as a purely mechanical concern to be exploited. :lol:
Aesthetic eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by VeloZer0
:eek: Oh God!!!!!!!! You're absolutely right!!!!!!! That's how I am!!!!
I'm an estimator of the aesthetic side of the whole thing and I want to bend the game mechanics to satisfy my tastes of having the traditional fantasy tropes represented...
Even when mechanics are against me, I work to bend them to my aesthetic fantasy desires!
You got it really right!!! :jess:
Honestly, I am not sure what to do with Marach most of the time because his design looks to me to be a type of spellcaster. Rapha and Marach have the same type of skill that works in different ways, and their special classes have the same equipment pool. Yes, I could turn Marach into a warrior type, but I don't think it fits the character. I will admit that I am not sure what Rapha and Marach are supposed to be as they are described as elite assassins yet completely lack the means of securing kills easily; their skills don't even have a set hit rate! Could you imagine sending an assassin out and then the target gets away because a giant magical crest appears beside them a few times without harming them?
Actually, even the story defines him as a type of wizard for that matter and this probably makes him suited to have the Geomancer sub class...Quote:
Originally Posted by Roogle
Rafa is perfect to be a mage because she actually benefits from an high Faith...
It could be said that Monk has KI power and in a medieval western setting these spiritual abilities can be often misjudged as magic...
Monk is the type of melee class that could fit him, its Punch Art has some skills that use KI but resemble magic and even his special class casts spell like skills that seems to be made of KI...
Rafa could be an Oracle/Mystic... The attire is that of an oriental mage and it fits her I think...
About equipment... Beside giving Malak the unarmed Monk damage, they can be given Malak a pole (very monkish) and Rafa a staff (typical of mages)...
:D You are definitely right! XD That's why making Malak to be similar to a Monk could improve his assassination skills greatly! His KI-like skills are too unpredictable to represent their main mean of killing! Also Rafa seems far from the idea of an assassin in any way she can be viewed...Quote:
I will admit that I am not sure what Rapha and Marach are supposed to be as they are described as elite assassins yet completely lack the means of securing kills easily; their skills don't even have a set hit rate! Could you imagine sending an assassin out and then the target gets away because a giant magical crest appears beside them a few times without harming them?