Final Fan Frustrations

Okay, with a fanbase as divisive as Squeenix's let's be honest; we've all wanted to throttle each other every once in a while. So, let's all come clean in this thread. What irks you about other Square Enix fans/ comments made by them?

1. "Final Fantasy IX was a kid's game."
Holy tit you guys, if I had a quarter for every time I read that comment, I wouldn't have to worry about having enough change to do my laundry. From what little of the game I've played, I can say that FFIX has some of the darkest moments in any FF game I've played. I've felt more loss and sorrow in this one cutscene than I have in any other final fantasy game (excluding a few key scenes in FFVI)

2. "Final Fantasy VII needs a remake"
I'll ignore for a second the argument between recycling genuine creativity against being genuinely creative and instead say this: how would you go about remaking Final Fantasy 7? Would you have it resemble the sequels (God, please no), or would you keep it as campy lighthearted, yet occasionally dark as the original (you know, kinda like what FFIX was)? Would the graphics be like modern Final Fantasy, or would they be a bit more anime style to represent the game's frequently humorous tone. Due to the Compilation, the general public has a different view of what FFVII's tone is, which segues into our next problem.

3. "FFVII Bashing"
FFVII is sorta like a younger brother to me. I'll frequently make fun of it for its flaws, but when someone else outright bashes it, I'll get defensive. It was a great game guys. Overrated? Yes. That doesn't mean you should deride it though.

4. "Who cares about this game? Make Kingdom Hearts 3 already"
Kingdom Hearts, while fun, has a story that has rather declined after Chain of Memories, to the point where I could care less about how it's concluded (my opinion). Be grateful Square is continuing to make games for that franchise that resemble the gameplay of the original, as opposed to what happened to front mission, and parasite eve.

Well that's my beef, guys. What grinds your gears?

Just reiterating the FFIX point. The Atmos and Odin cutscenes. That game is one of the most adult of all the Final Fantasy games. FFIX haters need their heads testing

Graphics - That's the main one for me. I say FFVI is my favourite, and all I get is 'Oh my god, how can you play that game. It's all 2D and looks terrible' Try playing the game for once, rather than getting annoyed because it doesn't have 3D bouncing tits.

Ditto on the VII and IX points.

Things people say that I hate:
FFXII wasn't a Final Fantasy game.
Squall was cool.
Tidus was cool.
The Final Fantasy VII spin-offs improved the storyline of the first.

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Originally Posted by Laddy

Ditto on the VII and IX points.

Things people say that I hate:

The Final Fantasy VII spin-offs improved the storyline of the first.

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... i agree on 3 of them. One of them was a definite improvement.

Mature games don't have to be dark anyway. Who are these people that, as soon as they reach adulthood, they immediately stop enjoying life and having fun?

Judging something by it's appearance and not it's content is a sign of immaturity imo....

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Originally Posted by Edge7

2. "Final Fantasy VII needs a remake"
how would you go about remaking Final Fantasy 7? Would you have it resemble the sequels (God, please no), or would you keep it as campy lighthearted, yet occasionally dark as the original (you know, kinda like what FFIX was)? Would the graphics be like modern Final Fantasy, or would they be a bit more anime style to represent the game's frequently humorous tone.

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I've already remade VII countless times (rescripting and I've also been working on a retelling from the perspective of real-life individuals in the World War II era... I'm not a computer programmer, so I can't do anything people want to look at... Edge7 told me he'd take on the task of reading through my re-script and I haven't heard from him since)...

I am a media glutton. I love the idea of being able to experience something that I love from a different perspective which is why I'm able to enjoy Advent Children, Dirge of Cerberus (seriously, if you think the sounds weird, you need to grow up), and Crisis Core. When Before Crisis is finally released on DS, I'm sure I'll enjoy that too.

However, sequels and spin-offs only grant so much. I want to experience the original the same way. Yes, blasphemy, it's true, heresy, I want to be able to watch FF7 as a movie (or a series of movies) or a short-live TV series. I also want to be able to play through Advent Children (it could be similar to Crisis Core) as unlikely as either of those options are.

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Originally Posted by Hypoallergenic Cactuar

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Originally Posted by Laddy

Ditto on the VII and IX points.

Things people say that I hate:

The Final Fantasy VII spin-offs improved the storyline of the first.

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... i agree on 3 of them. One of them was a definite improvement.

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Crisis Core is a good game. However, it expands on things that aren't necessary to the plot.

What really just gets me is each time something new is about to be announced people keep hoping it will be a final fantasy 7 remake. It is like beating a dead horse lol. I don't think final fantasy 7 needs a remake because of the time and money it would take would just be insane. I think fans should just let it be and move on. Lets say square did come out with a remake and it was not what fans expected to be then the whole game would be ruined. They cannot please everyone so I don't think they should do it. As for final fantasy 9 one of my personal favorites I just don't understand all of the hate for that game. I liked the characters, music, cg, backgrounds etc. I thought it was well made game. Kids game my foot. If you want a kids game go get a wii and play final fantasy mystics quest ha ha.

I think it's kind of cool how divided the fanbase is. There's just so many Final Fantasy titles y'know?

1- Too much demand for remakes and ports, not just SE but almost from any Japanese company.

2- The whole notion of " Let's go back to roots", "make a game like the ones when I thought it was good", Or "take this and this from X game __ and copy/paste it into a new Y game". No thanks. I don't want a new game to become a bunch of copy/pasted things to please one segment of a fandom or bunch of retro wannabes.

There's this ridiculous idea that game, as a whole, should only adhere to one particular Style. There is this nebulous, ambiguous idea, floating around the fandom, of what it should be.

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

I've already remade VII countless times (rescripting and I've also been working on a retelling from the perspective of real-life individuals in the World War II era... I'm not a computer programmer, so I can't do anything people want to look at... Edge7 told me he'd take on the task of reading through my re-script and I haven't heard from him since)...

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Sorry about that, I've been moving a bit recently. Trying to get situated. :-/
In fact, I'm pretty sure this thread was my first in a couple weeks.

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Originally Posted by Laddy

Crisis Core is a good game. However, it expands on things that aren't necessary to the plot.

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I second that statement. Project Gillian was basically Square Enix's excuse to add more One Winged Angels to the franchise, despite Angeal and Genesis lacking the symbolism behind Safer Sephiroth.

Never heard people really say the things you say about IX, usually I just don't hear the game mentioned. I have to heavily disagree on KH3. I can't even play any of the games that they have the spinoffs on, so I've got nothing. They need to make more good trout for consoles in general.

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Originally Posted by Laddy

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Originally Posted by Hypoallergenic Cactuar

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Originally Posted by Laddy

Ditto on the VII and IX points.

Things people say that I hate:

The Final Fantasy VII spin-offs improved the storyline of the first.

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... i agree on 3 of them. One of them was a definite improvement.

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Crisis Core is a good game. However, it expands on things that aren't necessary to the plot.

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As does 7.

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Originally Posted by Hypoallergenic Cactuar

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Originally Posted by Laddy

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Originally Posted by Hypoallergenic Cactuar

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Originally Posted by Laddy

Ditto on the VII and IX points.

Things people say that I hate:

The Final Fantasy VII spin-offs improved the storyline of the first.

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... i agree on 3 of them. One of them was a definite improvement.

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Crisis Core is a good game. However, it expands on things that aren't necessary to the plot.

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As does 7.

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:/ The plot of Final Fantasy VII, while sometimes confusing, is completely fine the way it is. The entire Compilation introduced totally unnecessary characters and subplots, not to mention completely changing the focus from Cloud to relatively minor characters like Zack (who, to me, was always supposed to be ambiguous and by actually delving that deep into his story causes him and his co-stars to completely eclipse the main cast in terms of development), and Vincent (who is totally and easily skippable in the main plot).

In the Compilation, Cloud is basically a wuss in both the prequels and sequels. Which, to me, completely removes the character's dignity. We know Cloud is a phony whether he realizes it or not, so to actually show him being that weak completely destroys any subtlety the character had and plays a huge part in the backlash the character has received in recent years.

The Compilation is an attempt to tie up any loose ends. However, it falls into the all-too-common mistake in fiction: expanding on every detail in the plot regardless if it's necessary or not. Franchises that make this mistake just create more plot holes, destroys any subtlety or mystery in the story, and ultimately take the focus off of the better material that created the legacy that paved the way for the spin-offs in the first place.

It's like the Star Wars pre-trilogy. We know Darth Vader was a good guy gone bad. They even touch on it. However, then The Phantom Menace came out, it gave us details we didn't want (like Anakin being a whiny tit), which destroys the credibility and intimidating nature of the character. No wonder the pre-trilogy is oftentimes mentioned more than the originals.

Also, according to the Compliation, Aerith was a co-dependent waif despite making the biggest sacrifice in the story AND threatening to remove a man's testicles.

My opinion is unpopular, but I passionately feel that the Compilation kind of ruined the original.

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Originally Posted by Laddy

In the Compilation, Cloud is basically a wuss in both the prequels and sequels. Which, to me, completely removes the character's dignity. We know Cloud is a phony whether he realizes it or not, so to actually show him being that weak completely destroys any subtlety the character had and plays a huge part in the backlash the character has received in recent years.

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I would agree with you, but I feel like Crisis Core doesn't focus on him enough that it weakens the character as he is in 7 (maybe with the exception of the "living legacy" bit, ymmv). In fact it just affirms what we knew by the end of FFVII. Every other incarnation of Cloud however (excluding DoC, we don't see enough of him in that game) has characterized him as over repentant which I think completely contrasts the Cloud introduced in 97.

I will agree on everything except CC. Including advent children.

When people say "FFVIII was really bad, it had no story".

No, you're most probably too stupid to realise the story. I know it's a back seater when it comes to people's favourites but it is mine. It was a great game, good length and good story. Personally if any game deserves a remake it's VIII.

FFVIII has the funnest theories to think about while you're playing!

Anyone who says any of the FF games had no story is reaching a bit. A stupid/shallow/uninteresting story could be a valid complaint, but hyperbole doesn't exactly lend credibility to an argument.

"FFVII was actually crap, it's just you being nostalgic because it was your first FF"

No. Don't tell me why I like something.

My first FF was technically II/IV (I hate the US/Japan relation for not having imported II&III and the f-ing useless US branch of Squaresoft for naming IV II in the US just to safe face, f-ing hell how am I supposed to number it correctly when referring back to it?)... anyway. Because VII was the first FF I finished, some may say that is the first FF I genuinely played and therefore that is the reason I fave it. Fact is that the earlier games may have had decent stories, but I could never get past the gameplay. I mean, I once played games like Mega Man, Double Dragon, and Metroid, but I never got far.
Suffice to say, I was able to better enjoy the full story of the PlayStation gen games because the system didn't get in the way.

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Originally Posted by Laddy

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Originally Posted by Hypoallergenic Cactuar

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Originally Posted by Laddy

Ditto on the VII and IX points.

Things people say that I hate:

The Final Fantasy VII spin-offs improved the storyline of the first.

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... i agree on 3 of them. One of them was a definite improvement.

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Crisis Core is a good game. However, it expands on things that aren't necessary to the plot.

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For me it decanonised one of the most chilling scenes in the game. Sephiroth's self-realisation becomes someone showing up and telling him, and the impact of his nervous breakdown, for me, is lost. I think this was the point I decided to pretend the entire compilation didn't exist and was non-canon.

I hate people telling me I liked X, when I know perfectly well I didn't. I played through it to shut up people who accused me of not giving it a chance and who claimed I had no right to criticise it, so I played it to death while I was depressed and unemployed, and had nothing else to play at the time. That last part didn't help matters anyway, but yeah, I don't like X. Stop claiming I do.

Also people bashing Edward from FF4 (he was useful; you just didn't know how to play it) people bashing FF3's scholar, people who rag on turn-based combat in general.

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Originally Posted by ReloadPsi

For me it decanonised one of the most chilling scenes in the game. Sephiroth's self-realisation becomes someone showing up and telling him, and the impact of his nervous breakdown, for me, is lost.

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When I originally watched the scene of Cloud asking Sephiroth if he was different, I thought the mood jumped a bit quick and that Sephiroth concluded too quickly that he was some kind of monster. Sephiroth is the battle-hardened arrogant warrior archetype. A kid's naive question wouldn't be enough to push him over the edge.

Slightly off-topic now... I know what you'll f-ing say too. You have to imagine for yourself the amount of stress and whatnot Sephiroth has endured over the years, obviously this wasn't his first encounter with questions about his identity yadayada, shaddap. If there's room for my head to imagine random thoughts and theories, there's room for the game itself to answer otherwise unanswered questions.

Media: That's the difference between movies/video games and a novel. A novel is a work of art intended to make you think and it begs you to solve the plot before the author reveals it and then you're left wondering on certain other questions that weren't addressed in the book. But in a movie, we expect to be amused on the drama, the comedy, the action; the same for a game but with the added bonus of being more or less in control of the plot's pace.

So, if YOU'RE the TYPE who needs those mysteries to remain mysteries, then by all means AVOID playing video games or watching movies, at least until you've read the reviews and in such a way determined the story lives up to your elite standards.

Why do video games have to have stories written like movies and not like books?

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there's room for the game itself to answer otherwise unanswered questions.

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Sometimes leaving a question unanswered for fans to think about will benefit a story more than whatever actual answer the writer can come up with.

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Originally Posted by VeloZer0

Why do video games have to have stories written like movies and not like books?

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there's room for the game itself to answer otherwise unanswered questions.

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Sometimes leaving a question unanswered for fans to think about will benefit a story more than whatever actual answer the writer can come up with.

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I find it annoying that right now SE seems to only be able to spell things out word for word or just forget about them and leave it as a plothole. It is ok to leave some mystery in a story, as long as it is done purposefully.

Well, I'm sure you'd be happier if more of the theories you developed while the mysteries still existed were made canon.

I think you are missing the point that in some situations the speculation is the interesting aspect, and that any answer will most likely fail to live up to that.

You need only look to Metal Gear Solid 4's constant deus ex nanomachina ass-pulling to see why having an "official" explanation for everything isn't a good thing. That game is a prime example of the creator obviously throwing up his arms and going "fine, the reason is [[crap twist]] are you happy now?"

Speak of the Devil

Yeah, add the people who defend the mopey version of Cloud to my list of fandom peeves. He wasn't like that in the game.

I cannot picture the mopey Cloud saying the "Let's mosey" line right before fighting Sephiroth.

I agree with you guys. Compilation Cloud has no smurfing dignity to him, he's a caricature of himself.

In FFVII, he was an imperfect hero for an imperfect world. That's what made him so great.

Post-FFVII, he just sucks.

I find it hard to let most things people say bother me. I mean after all, I myself am a hater by nature.

Mostly I just get mildly irritated by criticisms that just aren't true, which isn't to often I see it around here.

Okay - People who bash Edward ( FF 4) There is nothing wrong with a sensitive male character, nothing. Plus Edward becomes braver and gains so much courage throughout the game; yet he still manages to get the bash.

- Final Fantasy V has a cliche villain and has no story and cardboard cutout characters. ExDeath has no issue with torturing a ten year old girl and old man; I wouldn't mess with him would you ? Plus Bartz is a refreshing main lead compared to the more depressive Cecil and Terra and Galuf is awesome.

- You only like Final Fantasy VII because of nostalgic memories. No Final Fantasy VII isn't the best game in the world, but it's still fun, deep and really solid and still holds up today.

- Tifa Lockhart is a slut/ whore and only horny males like her character- Tifa is a brave and spirited female character, she can defend herself in battles and she's kind and gives the characters strength when they're feeling down. I think you might be envious Tifa hater.

- Final Fantasy VIII is a horrible game- No. It's unique, risky, refreshing and deep.

- Squall x Rinoa is a terrible couple and Squall all of a sudden loves her- If you focused on the storyline you would know that Squall has trust issues and struggles trusting others. During CD3 he realized that he took Rinoa for granted. Squall fell for Rinoa at the dance, but his fears pushed him from developing a close relationship with Rinoa.

- Kuja is a terrible villian because he wears a thong- Okay the thong is disturbing, but Kuja is a wonderful villian. He's unique, cunning, vain, sees beauty in all things terrible but deep inside he's just a confused, hurt, very angry young man. Unlike say.. Golbez he feels human. Ironic considering well... spoilers.

- Hope is annoying and should die/ be bashed- Okay Hope is a young boy who has just lost somebody close to him. He has to grieve and yet the game gives him NO TIME too. He can't just go to his room and let everything out, he can't get over things just like that. It would be unhealthy and not impossible. Give the kid a break !

- Gau sucks- Okay why ? The poor boy has been through alot of sh*te. His Father rejetced him believeing that he was a demon boy and his Father most likely has a huge mental illness. After trying to impress him, his Father rejects him again but Gau is thankful because he knows that his Father is alive. He's a cute, mistunderstood, and grateful young boy that needs a bigger fanbased and more love.

I think people have Edward because he's useless, not because he's sensitive.

Hell, I loved Edward's character and hated him in battle until the DS version came along and made him GLORIOUS! And the TAY came along and made him take several levels in badass making him one of my most favourite FF characters of all time.

When it comes to what bothers me in the fandom is the treatment FFXII gets. People say it doesn't feel like a Final Fantasy and that the story is weak. Well, in my opinion, it feels much more like an FF than X ever did and the story, while a bit poorly paced, was one of the more complex and thought-provoking in the entire franchise. Why do people hate my favorite FF so much :cry:

Alright, maybee, I understand and respect your opinion, but I have so many issues with Hope.

Lightning continues fighting to reach Eden (the capital of COCOON). Hope follows because essentially, he likes Lightning, or hell, maybe he just likes the fact that they both dislike Snow. The two share their frustrations about Snow, and Hope wants to KILL him?

What would killing Snow prove? That Hope can be a "soldier" like Lightning (indicated by calling his plan for Snow's murder Operation Nora)? Maybe he wants to prove that he has enough semblance of control left in his life to get revenge for his departed mother? If that were the case, Hope is just picking the easier target for his revenge; think about it, Lighting wants to take on Cocoon (the party responsible for detaining Serah, Hope, and Nora) while Hope wants to take on a goofball who considers Hope to be his ally.

Square wanted to create a character who's a young teenager clearly out of his environment, and as a result, he is confused and angry. Now, to be fair, I actually defend Tidus to a certain extent because I find this position interesting (he's a superstar who has to deal with the fact that he's been transported to a world ruled by horrible disasters, and that his father is the reason for it all). However, Hope's actions are so irrational and petty in the face of the main conflict that I can't bring myself to like him. Just because SE wanted to realistically (ymmv) portray a teenager's wild emotional state in a game does not defend Hope from the fact that he comes off as petty, immature and self-centered.

I guess to tie this back into this thread, one of my pet peeves is that fans believe that because Hope is the youngest cast member and he had an extremely rough day (an understatement, I know), he should be excused for his behavior. I understand if you like Hope, please understand why I don't.

(I would like to reiterate that I hold everyone's opinions on this forum in the highest respect, and I am not trying to start a full-heated argument on this thread. Also, I love Gau as a character, but never use him in battle; he's decent, but I like being able to control my units directly)

True Edward was pretty useless in the original SNES but he's really handy in the DS version and he still gets hated. SE has improved his battle skills so why still the hate ?

Also supposedly Edward in the GBA version if you train him up he's a total powerhouse.

About Hope yeah killing Snow would prove and slove nothing but Hope learns that throughout the game and like Edward he learns and gets better, and he gets along with Snow at the end like a older and younger brother relationship.

but yeah, opinions are opinions.

Yeah same I love Gau but never use him in battle either. His monster learning whatevers just take too much time to learn and can't be bothered etc.

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Originally Posted by maybee

True Edward was pretty useless in the original SNES but he's really handy in the DS version and he still gets hated. SE has improved his battle skills so why still the hate ?

Also supposedly Edward in the GBA version if you train him up he's a total powerhouse.

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That's good and dandy except no.

You can never keep him alive long enough in the DS version to let him level, to build him u, to make him useful.

Well, he is useful in the sense that your party is stronger with him than without him. He's just useless in the sense that every character in the game is better than him.

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Originally Posted by Tifa's Boobs

That's good and dandy except no.

You can never keep him alive long enough in the DS version to let him level, to build him u, to make him useful.

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Yeah in the DS version maybe; but in the GBA version you can.

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