Just the tip.

So, I don't get tips all that often, and if I do, it's usually a dollar or a few quarters, so today when I saw someone put a 5 in the tip jar I was really happy. Then the person behind him in line came up to the register, realised he didn't have enough money, and took the money out of my tip jar. With me standing about 4 feet away. After paying he then proceeded to put the change in his pocket, and walked out without leaving a tip.

Am I justified in feeling disgusted? I think so.
This guy now officially tops my list of bad tippers, right above the old lady who told me I reminded her of her no good son and then dropped a penny in the jar.

Anyways, topic is tips, both great and terrible, and your favorite and least favorite customers.

I've gone back to my job as a bagger last month. My job is basically tips only, so I don't get any hourly wages. However, I have to say that the customers usually tip pretty good. Most of the time, I get about 3 dollars, but every so often, I'd get $5, or more. One time, I took someone out, and they tipped me $20 for several bags. It's pretty awesome, and I'm glad to be making some money. I usually don't like it when customers don't tip me, but it doesn't happen very often. :P Also, bugger that dude that took the money from your tip jar, he had no right to take it. :mad:

I'm pretty sure what that man did was called stealing.

I am, typically, a good tipper so long as you deserve it. I do not subscribe to the notion that a tip is always necessary because in some situations it is not. If you do your job and deserve some extra money, then you will get it. But do not act like a complete ditz or fail in a specific aspect of your job and still expect to garnish a tip from me. The highest tip I left was while I was at a restaurant with a friend of mine. The waitress was attentive, attractive, and knew what she was doing. I think we left her a $40 tip on a $25 bill.

And you didn't kick him in the balls? :p

smurf that trout.

I would risk my job over five dollars if some one straight-up stole it... you should have.

I tip 15-20% for adequate-excellent service respectively.

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Originally Posted by Tifa's Boobs

I think the highest tip I got once was $40.

On average, when I was a server, I'd walk out with $100-120 for 5 hours of serving a night.

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Geeze, where did you work? I typically walk out with about $5.

I got handed at $100 bill on Christmas Eve-Day when I worked at Sonic. I asked the dude three times if he was serious or not cause I couldn't believe it.

Worst tips were the bitches who ordered the 98 cent 44 ounce drinks and told me to "keep the change." Wanted to throw it at their stupid BMW SUVs as they were pulling away.

Also, as a barista, it pissed me the hell off when people would order four stupidly elaborate drinks and then rush off without leaving tips. Tip your barista, dammit!

I tip everyone, even if they didn't give me great service. I tip when I pick up to-go food. Usually the restaurant service is okay and not spectacular, but I don't think my server needs to polish my shoes in order to receive a tip.

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Originally Posted by Hypoallergenic Cactuar

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Originally Posted by Tifa's Boobs

I think the highest tip I got once was $40.

On average, when I was a server, I'd walk out with $100-120 for 5 hours of serving a night.

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Geeze, where did you work? I typically walk out with about $5.

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You are not a girl.

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Originally Posted by Hypoallergenic Cactuar

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Originally Posted by Tifa's Boobs

I think the highest tip I got once was $40.

On average, when I was a server, I'd walk out with $100-120 for 5 hours of serving a night.

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Geeze, where did you work? I typically walk out with about $5.

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I think we all know the answer to this.

Tipping is weird. Why don't we just pay people the wages they're entitled to?

That's a question bigger'n this thread.

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Originally Posted by Jiro

Tipping is weird. Why don't we just pay people the wages they're entitled to?

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Because AMERICA.

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Originally Posted by Jiro

Tipping is weird. Why don't we just pay people the wages they're entitled to?

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WHAT. Pay people enough money so that they can survive on their troutty jobs alone and don't need to prostrate and degrade themselves for the enjoyment of arsehole customers? ARE YOU INSANE?!

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Originally Posted by Jiro

Tipping is weird. Why don't we just pay people the wages they're entitled to?

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Maybe it's not the same anymore but to my understanding waitresses get paid below minimum wage in some areas.

I tip 10%, more if the service is awesome at restaurants. For services (hair, or spa treatments) I tend to tip between 15 - 20%

I tip 20% as a standard if you do your job. If you don't do your job, I don't leave you trout. If you piss me off I will say something to you about it. If you do an awesome job and I have money I will sometimes tip double my bill.

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Originally Posted by Tifa's Boobs

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Originally Posted by Bunny

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Originally Posted by Hypoallergenic Cactuar

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Originally Posted by Tifa's Boobs

I think the highest tip I got once was $40.

On average, when I was a server, I'd walk out with $100-120 for 5 hours of serving a night.

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Geeze, where did you work? I typically walk out with about $5.

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You are not a girl.

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I actually find this a little insulting.

I made a ton of money because I worked hard, was friendly and talked to my customers, and gave them good service.

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You can find it as insulting as you want, it doesn't change the fact that we live in a society that bases success on levels of attractiveness and gender.

Yeah, taking money from the tip jar is definitely theft.

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Originally Posted by Tifa's Boobs

I actually find this a little insulting.

I made a ton of money because I worked hard, was friendly and talked to my customers, and gave them good service.

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Good service can obviously increase tips, but being an attractive girl can too. :p

EDIT: I also generally tip between 15-20%, depending on the service and the closest round dollar number for the total.

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Originally Posted by Tifa's Boobs

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Originally Posted by Faris

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Originally Posted by Jiro

Tipping is weird. Why don't we just pay people the wages they're entitled to?

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Maybe it's not the same anymore but to my understanding waitresses get paid below minimum wage in some areas.

I tip 10%, more if the service is awesome at restaurants. For services (hair, or spa treatments) I tend to tip between 15 - 20%

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Dude. 10%? troutty tipper alert.

Also, yes. Servers get paid less than minimum wage. I think I've given the "how servers get paid" post like 5 times of EoFF. x) There's a lot that goes into it, actually.

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Okay, I lied. I usually tip $5. 10% is the "average" tip around here :p

Edit: Now that I think about it, the person who I learned the "10% tip" thing is cheap.

I am an excellent tipper :bigsmile: I usually just leave $20 no matter how small the bill, but if it's over $100 I'll tip 20-25% of the total. Depending on service, of course :monster:

Sarah and I always have to eat out together, because I can't eat out in public alone and she can't tip because she was raised in a place where tipping is considered an insult :freak:

Yeah sam, even if you find it insulting It's still how it goes. Men just tend to give cute girls more. You working hard does help but yah.

Oh, we give them more alright..:jokey:

I prefer it when the tip is included in the wage and additional tipping is optional, for reasons Quin mentioned and because it should not be the customer's place to determine whether the server gets paid minimum wage this month.

But yeah, when I'm in functioning countries I tip ~10% standard, with extra depending on how awesome the service was and how low cut her blouse was. :shifty:

If I ever find myself in America, I'll go 15% for standard service, though I usually chuck in extra when I'm served by kids just trying to pay their way through college. Fortunately, America is repulsive. xD

Not everyone wants you for your body, Sam. Don't be so shallow. Plenty of people just want to love you, and feel loved in return. So they pay you money, because they're shy, or are embarrassed about being such a raging lesbian.

Obviously.

I actually don't mind the custom of tipping itself--mostly because I overtip (20% minimum unless I literally can't afford it or the server has done something horribly wrong such as summoning Nyarlathotep) -- but I can't abide how it's dealt with socially, at least in restaurants.

Bars and coffee shops, no problem, but restaurants are the devil's jizz.

For one thing there's no clear-cut custom of where and how one is supposed to tip. Leave it on the table? At the counter where you pay your bill? Is there a jar somewhere? And if you ask, you get that look like you're something they've scraped off the bottom of your shoe, because apparently, you're supposed to pretend that tipping isn't happening. That rather than being a time-honoured, accepted, and expected part of our society, it's supposed to be some big secret. Like if it was known that tipping was happening, the shade of J.D. Rockefeller would *poof!* pop into existence, snatch up the tip, and caper between the tables chanting "mine mine it's all mine."

You know what I was told once, by a server? "Hide the tip"

http://www.bastardly.org/whywouldyoudothat.jpg

Brilliant plan! Hide the tip! So the server's first impression of you is "that cum-guzzling thundertwat didn't leave a tip!" Good. Well done. Then, when they find the tip, even if it's a 100% tip, the best you can hope for is to be upgraded to "pretentious jackass."

People. Stop being twats. Tipping is not a secret.

I like bars and coffee shops. They have a jar. Sometimes even labelled "tip jar" because let's face it, people stiff bartenders and baristas a lot more than they do waitstaff and sometimes need a gentle reminder. The bar I go to even has a groove in the back of the bar with several holes in it, and people make it a game to try to get coins into the holes. Bigger tip == more coins == more shots. It becomes a matter of pride when you continue being able to get the coin in the holes as you become progressively more blitzed. Nobody gives you dirty looks for failing to pretend the custom of tipping doesn't exist. These people are doing it right. Restaurants need to learn from this.

I think hiding might be more along the lines of the fact that some restaurants and coffee shops, etc pool their tips together and then split them out evenly. If people hide their tips, though, they can't go into the pool!

Citizen Bleys--

Leave it on the table, and 20% as the minimum.

10% tip is the standard here in my area, so I always try to include that at the end of every meal.

When we visited America that one time, we did tip way more. Don't know the exact amount, because I was younger and the parents dealt with money, but I like to imagine they gave at least 20%. :3

Also, tipping bar staff? Tipping hairdressers?

smurf off. :colbert:

Tipping a bar staff member in certain situations is a good idea, can guarantee you getting service fast throughout the night. Not so useful in clubs where literally you're one face in hundreds or thousands but on a busy night down the pub a tip can go a long way. But then so can simply being cheeky and memorable. I know I've never tipped one of the girls in the Acorn which is usually packed on a friday night but because I've shared a few jokes with some of the girls who work there I get served almost immediately.

When I worked as a waiter I was working 7 day weeks permanently some 60 hours a week and every weekend I would make between £70 and £130 in tips. Now consider I'm a bloke and that was my tips and I often earnt the highest tips of all the waiting staff in there I think you just need to realize it doesn't matter what gender you are. It matters how you make customers feel if they have a good time you'll get some good tips. I always viewed it as being a waiter is like being self employed, you own your section and if you make the customers in that section feel good then you'll earn more for doing so.

The biggest tip I ever got was from a party outing where I earnt a £70 tip. There was like 20 of them and I'd managed to keep it going with exception of some assistance carrying initial drink trays and food to the table on my own. Normally parties like that would take 2 - 3 waiters to manage but we were short staffed and busy, I volunteered to go for it and at the same point had to manage another few tables that were in my section. I bloody earnt every quid in that tip with a lot of hard graft.

i tip well, at least I think so. 15-20% in a restaurant as long as you deserve it, more at bars and for people who do a personal service such as a barber. that's how i was raised so i'm not gonna change that

This thread continues to perplex me. I reject the idea that I should be forced to tip. If you rock up and give me troutty service then I should not feel entitled to give you any more money than you already receive from your boss who pays you from the money I spend there. But the concept of minimum tipping can only really exist in places where people feel compelled because staff are grossly underpaid. Nobody ever tips me for selling education well. Nobody ever tipped me for doing a smashing job as a referee. One guy tried to bribe me once but that's unethical. So I don't understand why tipping is necessary. Pay your workers real money and be done with it.

Minimum seems to vary by reason; around here conventional wisdom says 15% is base, so I go 5% higher as base, and more if there's a reason.

I tip a minimum 25% at the bar because I go there every week, usually on the same day of the week (work schedule permitting) so I almost always have the same bartender and I don't want them to micturate in my ale.

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Originally Posted by Jiro

Nobody ever tipped me for doing a smashing job as a referee. One guy tried to bribe me once but that's unethical.

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Seriously? That's hilarious. I wish someone would try to bribe me.

There's this picture I've seen a couple of times of a twenty in an upside-down water glass, but I can't find it.

How would some of you feel about this?

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Originally Posted by Bunny

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Originally Posted by Jiro

Tipping is weird. Why don't we just pay people the wages they're entitled to?

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Because AMERICA.

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Pretty much this.

It has it's ups and downs. If you get a bunch of nice customers you'll make more than your usual - but the flipside is also true.

When I worked in a restaurant in London we just got paid a flat wage and any tips went directly to the restaurant itself and more than likely into the managers pockets. We did get bonuses occassionally from head office if we had good quarters etc.

I had no idea how much tipping was a major thing in the US when I went over but generally used to just leave 15%-20% (depending on service/how much loose change we had etc) of the bill as a minimum.

TWENTY. DOLLAR. MINIMUM.

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Originally Posted by Tigmafuzz

TWENTY. DOLLAR. MINIMUM.

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What is your angle here? To brag about your implied generosity, twice in the same thread? I'm going to find where you live, become a waiter, and prove that you're lying. I'll also covertly take a picture of your "perfect" belly (what does that even mean? from your pix you look like a beanpole) and beat you at Connect 4 without a computer next to you to tell you the next move. I guess it's easy to be a pathological liar on the internet.

15% is my minimum, generally speaking. If I was extremely please with the service, I can go up to 25%. However, now, I'm in China, where the concept doesn't exist and everything is cheap. I'm digging it, but I'm a bit afraid that I'll go back to the U.S. in a year and accidentally forget to leave a tip :aimx:

do think its silly the ridiculously low amount that waiters make here (like $2.50ish) and I'm going to have to get used to tipping more because in Ontario they still make less than minimum wage ($8.75 as opposed to regular minimum wage which is $10.25) but still a decent amount. In fact in Ontario they make less than minimum wage but still more than the minimum wage I earn here which is like $7.50. I'm not happy about this. I get that you can make good money from tips which is why they make less but I still think earning that little should be illegal.

Anyways, what I used to do was either leave the change or round up. So for example, my bill was $20, I would leave $30. There's the tip. If my bill was $29 I would leave $40. In some cases it's cheap, in others it isn't. Unless the service was particularly good or bad I would leave more/less.

I have never been in the position to be tipped, but I am usually a good tipper. You have to REALLY screw up for me to give a bad tip. That has never happened before.

However, when I was really young, I was with my cousins and their girlfriends. They were being typical teenagers and thought it was cute to somewhat mess up the table and leave two pennies as a tip. I felt very uncomfortable with that, and just walked out ahead of them since I already put in my share of the bill (did not have enough to tip or I would have done something about it).

They later asked why I walked out, and I told them they were acting like dicks. My story awkwardly ends there.

The thing about working in the service industry is that these people are generally hired because they are experienced and good. There are usually two ways I see someone being a troutty server: 1) they are having an off day, 2) they are new and don't know what the smurf they're doing but are trying.

Either way, to deny them a tip that is typically expected just because they didn't provide top-tier service-to-the-Queen waiting on you is just plain kindof cruel. It is a part of American culture to tip. I guess I usually look at it that someone else is going to need four or so bucks more than I am, and it's probably going to ruin their day if I skip out on that.

Be nice and leave tips!

I hate to be all Mr Pink, but smurf that, Shorty. xD

:aimmad:

I agree completely with what Shorty says.

And, (at least in American culture) if you can't tip, you shouldn't be going out to eat. If you don't have the money to leave $2-5 dollars YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE GOING OUT TO EAT. You should be factoring in your tip as part of your restaurant cost as soon as you walk through that door.

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Originally Posted by I Took the Red Pill

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Originally Posted by Tigmafuzz

TWENTY. DOLLAR. MINIMUM.

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What is your angle here? To brag about your implied generosity, twice in the same thread? I'm going to find where you live, become a waiter, and prove that you're lying. I'll also covertly take a picture of your "perfect" belly (what does that even mean? from your pix you look like a beanpole) and beat you at Connect 4 without a computer next to you to tell you the next move. I guess it's easy to be a pathological liar on the internet.

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I don't think you quite understand what "bragging" is. We don't go out to eat often, and we have quite a bit of extra money. Why shouldn't we be generous tippers?

And I think a better question would be, what exactly is your angle here? How exactly do you benefit by calling me a liar? Are you trying to cover up jealousy? Do you need to belittle others to feel better about yourself? smurf off.

Also, Connect 4 is simple memorization of algorithms, it requires no more skill than Tic Tac Toe, solving a Rubiks Cube, or tying your goddamned shoes.

Don't attack my integrity.

Wow, some of you seem cheap, but I don't know what the norm is in other places, so don't take that the wrong way. On the other hand, some of you seem very generous!

BBL, gonna finish my story.

I'm in the back so I don't get tips :cry:


Actually they have some "tip-out", $30-$40 each month or 2.

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Originally Posted by shion

do think its silly the ridiculously low amount that waiters make here (like $2.50ish) and I'm going to have to get used to tipping more because in Ontario they still make less than minimum wage ($8.75 as opposed to regular minimum wage which is $10.25) but still a decent amount. In fact in Ontario they make less than minimum wage.

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I think the waitresses where I work make min. wage (the 10.25) while I was making min wage for 3 years ~,~

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Originally Posted by Tifa's Boobs

I honestly think tipping out is wrong in most cases. Most cooks make extremely good money. In most restaurants they start at like $10 (min. wage here is 7.25) and get consistent raises because being a cook is really hard work.

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Yeah, I thought the same thing too but my boss even told the one girl before they make min wage($10.25), the same I was making until I threatened to quit:)
There are only 2 cooks where I work plus my boss and his 76 yr dad...his dad actually helps out a lot too compared to him -.-

The waitresses don't get as many hours but on a good day they'd probably make $50-$100 (probably depends on the girl though because I don't think the newer ones we have now make as much). So pretty much they'd make the same in 5 hours that I made in a 9-12 hr day.

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Yeah, cooks get busy. And it's important to be nice to the line. When you make a mistake on food, and you're friends and respectful of them, they will be a hell of a lot more inclined to help you out. But at the same time, waitresses work for their tips. And a lot of times in one night, a cook will still be making the same, or even more.

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Yeah...when a mistake happens I try to let it slide, they pretty much do the same...ugh my boss gets so pissed off and yells so easily, pretty much everyone feels like quitting all the time lol.

I've decided i'm going to start tipping Sam for everything she does. Because she's super perfect at absolutely everything so she needs tips for it. Cause you know, she's amazing at doing everything. TIPS EVERYWHERE!

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Originally Posted by Freya

I've decided i'm going to start tipping Sam for everything she does. Because she's super perfect at absolutely everything so she needs tips for it. Cause you know, she's amazing at doing everything. TIPS EVERYWHERE!

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:colbert:


Someone's being catty.

Pot, kettle, black. xD

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Originally Posted by Harle-y Davidson

Pot, kettle, black. xD

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goddammit quin

I was told tip used to stand for, to insure promptness. That's my definition if someone should get a good tip usually.

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Originally Posted by Jiro

Tipping is weird. Why don't we just pay people the wages they're entitled to?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jiro

This thread continues to perplex me. I reject the idea that I should be forced to tip. If you rock up and give me troutty service then I should not feel entitled to give you any more money than you already receive from your boss who pays you from the money I spend there. But the concept of minimum tipping can only really exist in places where people feel compelled because staff are grossly underpaid. Nobody ever tips me for selling education well. Nobody ever tipped me for doing a smashing job as a referee. One guy tried to bribe me once but that's unethical. So I don't understand why tipping is necessary. Pay your workers real money and be done with it.

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Originally Posted by Goldenboko

I was told tip used to stand for, to insure promptness. That's my definition if someone should get a good tip usually.

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Now by that definition the premise of tipping at the end for quality service is wrong, you should be tipping in advance of service received.

The only time I might throw a tip in advance in is if I'm chatting to a barmaid and say "oh throw one in for yourself" or something when ordering shots.

I loathe the whole concept of tipping.

Especially based on percentages. Why should I pay MORE for service, because I ordered a steak, versus ordering a salad? It's still one plate. Is there something I'm missing here? If there was like a standard service fee, I would be fine paying it. It's just so weird to me that how much a server gets tipped is directly reflected, not in the service itself, but the cost of the items you're getting. Whyyyy??

Also, in California, everyone gets minimum wage. So the whole, making-up-for-less-than-minimum-wages-thing doesn't really apply.

It's so nice and easy to deal with bills while traveling in Europe or Asia. No need to fuss over 10% versus 15% versus 20%. Everything is just laid out for you, how much you're supposed to pay. You pay it and leave, done. I love that!

And why does the percentage keep going up? I remember when 15% was the standard and 20% was really generous. And now it's like 20-30% is the standard. WTF?

Plus, I really really really hate the fact that even when you get terrible service, you're still expected to leave SOMETHING. And societal pressure on this is so strong, that I have only skipped out on tip like twice in my entire life. Even though I've had plenty of bad experiences. It's like some bizarre compulsion to leave extra money, when I shouldn't have to.

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Originally Posted by Shorty

Either way, to deny them a tip that is typically expected just because they didn't provide top-tier service-to-the-Queen waiting on you is just plain kindof cruel. It is a part of American culture to tip. I guess I usually look at it that someone else is going to need four or so bucks more than I am, and it's probably going to ruin their day if I skip out on that.

Be nice and leave tips!

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But WHY? I seriously don't understand. I am nice. I'm also, I think, fairly generous with the money that I have. The thing with tipping is that logically, I can't comprehend it. I don't care about that extra couple bucks, honestly. But why exactly am I leaving extra money to people who are being paid already? Because they work hard? Because they don't get paid that much? Isn't that true for plenty of people, even if they don't work in the service industry typically associated with tipping?

I get tipped sometimes and it's baffling to me. I've tried rejecting tip before because I don't need it, I don't expect it, and I don't know why people would want to give me EXTRA money. It's so freakin' weird.

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Originally Posted by Tigmafuzz

I am an excellent tipper :bigsmile: I usually just leave $20 no matter how small the bill, but if it's over $100 I'll tip 20-25% of the total. Depending on service, of course :monster:

Sarah and I always have to eat out together, because I can't eat out in public alone and she can't tip because she was raised in a place where tipping is considered an insult :freak:

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Jeez are you a millionaire?

I usually tip with whatever change I have in my purse. Can be between £2-£3, that being said tipping is different in UK

I always give my hairdresser about £4 tip

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Originally Posted by Iceglow

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Originally Posted by Goldenboko

I was told tip used to stand for, to insure promptness. That's my definition if someone should get a good tip usually.

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Now by that definition the premise of tipping at the end for quality service is wrong, you should be tipping in advance of service received.

The only time I might throw a tip in advance in is if I'm chatting to a barmaid and say "oh throw one in for yourself" or something when ordering shots.

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I always took it as "to insure promptness... again." So if the person was prompt, I will tip well, so they are prompt next time I am there.

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Originally Posted by Goldenboko

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Originally Posted by Iceglow

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Originally Posted by Goldenboko

I was told tip used to stand for, to insure promptness. That's my definition if someone should get a good tip usually.

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Now by that definition the premise of tipping at the end for quality service is wrong, you should be tipping in advance of service received.

The only time I might throw a tip in advance in is if I'm chatting to a barmaid and say "oh throw one in for yourself" or something when ordering shots.

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I always took it as "to insure promptness... again." So if the person was prompt, I will tip well, so they are prompt next time I am there.

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That relies upon the waiting staff member or person you've tipped remembering you or even working there next time you swing by. As a former waiter I speak from experience when I say the odds of being remembered unless you go to the same place 2 - 3 times a week or for many, months or years on a consistent basis is pretty slim. Most people accept the tip and forget the customer's face before the customer has even left the building.

I'm a creature of habit that tends to go to the same places anyway a lot of times I actually do get recognized.
Then there's the philosophical side that a good waiter or waitress will get a lot of good tips (ideally) to insure their continual promptness giving motivation to keep up their efforts.

It seems obvious to me that the principle refers to the expectation of a better tip improving the manners of the person serving you, as well as the speed with which they tend to you over others. For example, if someone looks megabucks*, they will usually get better service due to the expectation of higher tipping.

*"Megabucks" didn't get the squiggly red line indicating a misspelled word. smurfing hell.

Oh boy a tipping thread. These are always fun. It always amazes me how passionate you guys in the US get about the tipping subject, and also the proud thingie-waving of "I always tip x% at the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM" that always go on :p

What I find odd is, it's treated as absolutely vital, as in probably more important than paying the bill itself, but it's not included in the bill. You'd think it'd be easier to just add a "service charge" - I've seen it done here sometimes. If everyone should be tipping anyway, then just make sure it happens.

Anyway I can understand why it's done in the US, with waiting staff not being paid, or being paid less than minimum. What irks me a little is the system being transferred directly to the UK without any regard for the difference in circumstances. They're already paid at least minimum, so no one here should be villainised for not tipping (unless they had the waiter running around changing things for them, customising set meals etc.)

Me, I fit in with whoever I'm with, and I think that's really the system that people use. My parents can't stand the concept so with them no-one tips (and like heck I'm tipping 3x to make up for them!). My friends are fairly loose about it and we'll just leave whatever's convenient by the time we've shared the bill, which is a faff already - sometimes it's decent, sometimes it's just a pound or two. With colleagues things are naturally a bit more formal and it becomes the universally (well, regionally) agreed ~10% no matter what. On my own, I'd often tip 10% but don't feel that I should be obliged to, and treat it as a system of "you're paid already. If you gave me polite and helpful service I may well tip".
If all you did was point at a table then let me go and help myself from the buffet, and you're already paid, then sorry but why. In the US though it'd be completely different, I know the system works differently there and would do the 20% minimum thing.

Today I made a whopping $7 in tips. SUCK IT.

I'm talking to my bills, they sucked it all away, and are still hungry.

To those implying a service charge is better than tips. It isn't. Ok lets look at the two and how they work...

A tip is a generosity towards the waiter/waitress who served you. In 85 - 90% of cases this waiter is not obligated to place tips in a communal tips jar to be shared out, the server may keep the full tip (unless of course they come up short on the end of the night cash up, anyone who ever ran out on a cheque ought to be smurfing ashamed of their behaviour because that comes out of the waiter's pocket no one else looses. I had one customer ever attempt it with me, they got as far as the curb and I had their ass slammed up against the restaurant window and they got forced to pay their bill I don't give a smurf if it was £500 or 5p you pay your smurfing bills) this means a good waiter will take home a healthy pay packet, they will be encouraged to continue to provide good service because it earns them more money.

A service charge however goes to the restaurant, the restaurant management then get to divide it after taking a cut for the restaurant itself. This means, when in a quiet period the restaurant is not hitting target the money taken from customers as a gratuity is in fact used to make up the short fall and not passed on to the waiting staff at all. This is equally true of communal tip jars, meanwhile the waiters have no individual incentive to provide you with better service. They also still have to pay for any bills that are run out on. This means the waiting staff are often under-paid, with no incentive to do better and more likely to abuse the customers food. This is worse for everyone customer and staff member alike.

The only places I've seen inclusive service charges work better than tipping is countries like Iceland and Japan where you pay a service charge yes, but the service charge is the tip the waiter receives. It is in fact considered offensive in both countries to leave a tip for a waiter or waitress.

Goldenboko's "To Ensure Promptness" makes perfect sense. It's an incentive scheme. The quicker you are, the more you're going to receive. If I tipped you up front, there would be absolutely nothing except your own sense of decency to make you provide me good service.

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Originally Posted by Tifa's Boobs

Iceglow--Not all restaurants hold staff responsible when a customer skips a bill.

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Over here pretty much every restaurant I've enquired about jobs in or known people to work for the chain it's standard to make the waiter pay. It got to the point that I would often ask in interviews about that policy because it can be such a big important policy to know.

Thankfully in our branch of Pizza Hut we used to break the rules let alone bend them, if you had a table run and we were still open depending on who was managing the shift you could distribute items to other tables and thus "clear" the cheque and get rid of it. Essentially if Table R4 ran and table R2 then ordered 2 Pepsi's you'd move the 2 pepsi's over to the other bill by paying them on one cheque then entering them printing the cheque and then voiding them on the R2 cheque so it shows on the receipt since customers query it but they won't be giving the cash for them. Amount of times I would have to take care of doing that for staff members was seriously unreal. Still try to run when you're a snot nosed 15 year old on me and I will smurf your trout up.

That system in Iceland etc is the kind of system I was thinking of and would like if I was over there - not one where the management wins (I agree, that's unfair) - just basically one that enforces the tipping system as it stands so that you don't have all the awkwardness or the contradictory thing of "it must be secretive with the pretence of not doing it but you must do it" or people being hated for not leaving something that is technically discretionary etc etc.

One where everyone just pays the tip and it goes directly to the server as it would've done before. Not the management. Not the cooks. Not the tax man. Just a formalisation of what's already happening (or in the cases people complain about, not happening)

Even down to the level of, you could have a mandatory 20% tip but people can tip more if they're feeling generous, on the understanding (somehow, in the culture) that it would never become an expectation.

Side note, in most restaurants I've been to here (cheap ones not fancy ones) while there is usually a named "you were served by" on the receipt, usually a number of people get involved, no doubt for maximum time efficiency. You can easily have one sit you down, another come and take the drinks order, another come and take the meal order, another bring the drinks over, another bring the meal over, another take the plates and another bring the bill over. That can be a different person every time in the biggest extremes in heavily staffed places, or more often 2-3 people.


Oh also, according to a mug I had not so long ago with some little "facts" written on it, TIPS is actually an acronym. To Insure Proper Service.

(Still, promptness works)

And in countries where tipping isn't culturally enforced, good service is incentivised by not getting fired hehe. Or more often, from the person generally having a nice attitude towards others and work ethic in the first place :) Especially when you think about somewhere like Japan where that kind of thing is ingrained into the culture.

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Originally Posted by Iceglow

To those implying a service charge is better than tips. It isn't.

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Um, that's because they're not doing it right. The whole point is that people should be paid decently enough, whether by flat out paying them the required minimum wage, or adding an additional charge on the bill that goes towards paying the wait staff.

Whenever someone argues in favor of tips, it seems to boil down to two things. 1) People in the service industry aren't paid enough and 2) People in the service industry work hard, therefore you should give them extra money.

The less than minimum wage thing is stupid and the laws should be changed so that employers can't get away with that anymore. As for the second thing, a lot of people work hard and do their jobs well and don't get tips. Just because you deliver food to people doesn't mean that you are somehow eligible for MORE money than what you're already being paid (we're talking about situations where people are being paid a proper wage already).

My best friend works selling shoes to people. She actually helps people put on shoes, which when you think about people's feet... it's a pretty heroic endeavor. And she's on her feet for like 8 hours a day. Plus she deals with a lot of stupid people and puts up with customer abuse. She doesn't get tips and she doesn't earn that much money. Why exactly should a waiter get tips when she doesn't?

Well, Miriel, that's the thing, isn't it? Why are restaurants allowed to pay their employees less?

Is there some law about this? I really don't know.

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Originally Posted by Cloudane

Side note, in most restaurants I've been to here (cheap ones not fancy ones) while there is usually a named "you were served by" on the receipt, usually a number of people get involved, no doubt for maximum time efficiency. You can easily have one sit you down, another come and take the drinks order, another come and take the meal order, another bring the drinks over, another bring the meal over, another take the plates and another bring the bill over. That can be a different person every time in the biggest extremes in heavily staffed places, or more often 2-3 people.

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There's an explanation for 2 of these things; the most junior (often a trainee) or short straw waiting staff member must do host duties, this person has to seat every customer. The drinks being ordered by someone different to the food could be because of a dedicated drinks waiter/waitress, though this is rarer and most will let you know drinks are paid for separately to food.

Edit for Miriel noticed her post after posting mine...

Well 1st point no one should ever be allowed to pay less than min wage. I disagree with that if it's a damn min wage legally speaking then in my mind any employer who argues tips make up for wages below that is nothing more than a criminal and ought to be treated as such. In the UK you must pay min wage to all staff.

2nd point: Well why don't retail staff get tips when waiting staff do? Well honestly it's because a waiting job even in the UK is a min wage job even at top end restaurants it's hard to get more than that, why? Because employers aren't expected to pay much for non-skilled labour, despite the fact that maintaining the standards these companies expect means the waiters have just as much skill as any retail employee and even most professionally skilled workers such as office workers. It doesn't make much sense that I can work in retail and earn up to £20,000 as a retail supervisor or department manager but yet I could work as a restaurant shift manager and earn less than £15,000 despite having far more responsibility! It makes less sense that as an office worker who has a far easier job I could earn potentially double what the retail supervisor earns despite the fact that in terms of real world skills a retail manager would have far more skill than the office worker. However that's capitalism for you so smurf it, can't beat it at this point so might as well embrace it else you're just going to get a headache.

Respectively though as someone who has been retail, been waiting staff and now office staff... Min wage makes no sense what-so-ever for any job it simply isn't enough but I've only ever been offered min wage in restaurant work (like 6.05 an hour) in retail it's like £8 an hour and in office work I took a voluntary pay cut to start out in it which put me on 7.56 an hour but my pay is guaranteed to go up with cost of living.

Drinks are always paid on the same bill here, but, I am fairly certain that in some restaurants whoever serves the drinks makes commission on them. In said restaurants I've had on occasion up to 3 different servers come over and ask if anyone's dealing with drinks yet. (And they don't look happy if you ask for water!)

Ah right so they're not running around trying to steal drinks orders from each other, that's good and makes sense :)

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Originally Posted by Jiro

Tipping is weird. Why don't we just pay people the wages they're entitled to?

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Because then the only restaurants that would exist would be giant corporate chains.

Also, nobody is "entitled" to a wage. The employer decides how much he wants to pay for a given task and you can either accept his terms or not. People don't just "deserve" better pay because they need it.

As for the topic itself, I tip based on the service received. If I spend ~$10 the server is probably getting $1 unless they actually do something they didn't have to. Yesterday at lunch the restaurant I sometimes go to was pretty busy, so I asked the server if she thought I should go somewhere else. She put my order in before the party of like 10 even though they had already ordered before I had even got there. This time my tip was pretty close to $3 for a sandwich that cost me only $9.

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Originally Posted by Tifa's Boobs

Well, Miriel, that's the thing, isn't it? Why are restaurants allowed to pay their employees less?

Is there some law about this? I really don't know.

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I have no idea. It seems obscenely stupid. I did a quick google search and found this: Minimum Wage For Restaurant Servers Remains Stagnant For 20 Years Under Industry Lobbying

It looks like Alaska, California, Guam, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, and Washington are the only ones who require the same minimum wage for everyone.

It is such a horrible idea to have customers, rather than employers be responsible for the bulk of a person's wages.

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Originally Posted by nik0tine

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Originally Posted by Jiro

Tipping is weird. Why don't we just pay people the wages they're entitled to?

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Because then the only restaurants that would exist would be giant corporate chains.

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Tipped employees get paid at least minimum wage in California and we have tons and tons of non giant corporate chains. One of our biggest fast food chains in California is actually family owned and pays their employees (even part time employees) several dollars ABOVE state mandated minimum wage, as well as provides health care.

I have never tipped at this fast food restaurant. See, it works! Everyone is happy.

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Originally Posted by Tifa's Boobs

Well, Miriel, that's the thing, isn't it? Why are restaurants allowed to pay their employees less?

Is there some law about this? I really don't know.

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I knew there was something along the lines of a "tipped wage" that was essentially a loophole for minimum wage with service jobs so I googled it.

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Originally Posted by http://www.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm

The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) requires payment of at least the federal minimum wage to covered, nonexempt employees. An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 an hour in direct wages if that amount plus the tips received equals at least the federal minimum wage, the employee retains all tips and the employee customarily and regularly receives more than $30 a month in tips. If an employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages of at least $2.13 an hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference.
Some states have minimum wage laws specific to tipped employees. When an employee is subject to both the federal and state wage laws, the employee is entitled to the provisions which provides the greater benefits.

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Interestingly, you could go to your employer and have him make up the difference if you don't make minimum wage with the tipped wage and tips. You'll probably get fired for some non-related reason, but still! lol.

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Tipped employees get paid at least minimum wage in California and we have tons and tons of non giant corporate chains. One of our biggest fast food chains in California is actually family owned and pays their employees (even part time employees) several dollars ABOVE state mandated minimum wage, as well as provides health care.

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The key words here are 'one of our biggest' and 'fast food'. Of course one of your biggest chains can afford to pay their employees that wage, but what about one of your smallest? Should they cease to exist simply because they aren't a big company?

Also, as I understand it, fast food has the same standards for paying their employees as everyone else. I have never heard of someone working in fast food who was paid less than minimum wage. I've also never heard of someone in fast food receiving tips.

We're talking about locally owned sit down restaurants. Not corporate chains, big or small. I find it very interesting that Californian restaurants are able to sustain themselves and pay their servers minimum wage, however I also have to wonder how many of those businesses wouldn't have gone under when the recession hit if they had the option of paying their employees less. I also have to wonder how many employees at these restaurants lost their job and haven't been employed since.

Paying everyone better wages isn't necessarily a good idea if it means less people have the opportunity to work.

[QUOTE=nik0tine;3148848]

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Originally Posted by Jiro

As for the topic itself, I tip based on the service received. If I spend ~$10 the server is probably getting $1 unless they actually do something they didn't have to. Yesterday at lunch the restaurant I sometimes go to was pretty busy, so I asked the server if she thought I should go somewhere else. She put my order in before the party of like 10 even though they had already ordered before I had even got there. This time my tip was pretty close to $3 for a sandwich that cost me only $9.

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Tables of one take up space you could use for other people so they try to rush them out :)

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Tables of one take up space you could use for other people so they try to rush them out

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Then expect a crappy tip :)

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Originally Posted by nik0tine

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Tipped employees get paid at least minimum wage in California and we have tons and tons of non giant corporate chains. One of our biggest fast food chains in California is actually family owned and pays their employees (even part time employees) several dollars ABOVE state mandated minimum wage, as well as provides health care.

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The key words here are 'one of our biggest' and 'fast food'. Of course one of your biggest chains can afford to pay their employees that wage, but what about one of your smallest? Should they cease to exist simply because they aren't a big company?

Also, as I understand it, fast food has the same standards for paying their employees as everyone else. I have never heard of someone working in fast food who was paid less than minimum wage. I've also never heard of someone in fast food receiving tips.

We're talking about locally owned sit down restaurants. Not corporate chains, big or small. I find it very interesting that Californian restaurants are able to sustain themselves and pay their servers minimum wage, however I also have to wonder how many of those businesses wouldn't have gone under when the recession hit if they had the option of paying their employees less. I also have to wonder how many employees at these restaurants lost their job and haven't been employed since.

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I only mentioned that this is a fast food company is because fast food companies are notoriously troutty with their employees. While In-N-Out is widely recognized as treating their employees extremely well.

And it wasn't always as big as it is today, they were based strictly in southern California because they didn't want to freeze any of their products to ship. It's a great example of a small family run business (it's still family run today) that succeeded and was able to become a powerhouse in a super competitive fast food market while maintaing the quality of their food, satisfying customers, and keeping employees happy.

The point being, a company can become really successful and expand while paying their employees a living wage.

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I find it very interesting that Californian restaurants are able to sustain themselves and pay their servers minimum wage, however I also have to wonder how many of those businesses wouldn't have gone under when the recession hit if they had the option of paying their employees less. I also have to wonder how many employees at these restaurants lost their job and haven't been employed since.

Paying everyone better wages isn't necessarily a good idea if it means less people have the opportunity to work.

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Whaaa? I am absolutely surrounded by local non-chain restaurants. More pop up all the time. They're doing fine. I literally have a list of like 100 restaurants in the area that I've been meaning to eat at (hello, Yelp bookmarks!). Yes, restaurants go out of business but there's a lot of factors why, not just paying that extra couple dollars per hour per server.

And yet the tipping culture in California is still prevalent. I once had a server actually TELL me to please tip well. I wanted to punch him in the face.

It doesn't make sense for people in other states to have to subsidize people's wages based on how generous they're feeling. And it doesn't make sense for me to tip people here in California where they're already being paid for their work. Super good service, yeah, I get it. You want to say thank you and you add a few more bucks. But what's with the idea that I have to pay like 15% extra even if the server did nothing but perform their job adequately?

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Originally Posted by nik0tine

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Tables of one take up space you could use for other people so they try to rush them out

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Then expect a crappy tip :)

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All about the money.:|

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Whaaa? I am absolutely surrounded by local non-chain restaurants. More pop up all the time. They're doing fine.

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That's kind of a broad generalization, don't you think?

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Yes, restaurants go out of business but there's a lot of factors why, not just paying that extra couple dollars per hour per server.

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There is, ultimately, only one reason why any company ever goes out of business; they earns less than they spend. Of course, many factors are at play as to why that happens but in the end it always boils down to the same thing.

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All about the money.

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Can't I say the same thing about the servers who are rushing me out just so they can earn more in tips? :|

If a restaurant can't afford to pay the employees it has working then clearly there is an issue. You either fire some staff, up your prices, or get more custom. Customers shouldn't be paying more on top of their meal because they're good people who don't want to see other good people starve to death because their boss doesn't think the job they do is worth paying them more for. Stop paying everyone their wage and expect them to get by on tips; it won't work.

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All about the money.

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Can't I say the same thing about the servers who are rushing me out just so they can earn more in tips? :|[/QUOTE]


Yeah :)


It may not necessarily be the reason why but most likely.

You can transfer that entire post to pretty much every other job a person can do.

Personal or not, people do get rushed out so that wait staff can get more tips. It happens because they need money because they're working in America. xD

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Originally Posted by Harle-y Davidson

Personal or not, people do get rushed out so that wait staff can get more tips. It happens because they need money because they're working in America. xD

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It happens. But probably not as often as people think. Which was my point.

Yesterday I had to ask some people to leave because they'd been there for over two hours and there were no tables left.

On the speeding people up thing, I find it interesting in one of the pizza restaurants here that they play very notably fast-paced music. Subconsciously you find yourself eating faster - it's a neat tactic.

It's understandable in there as it's a popular place. Often there are people in the waiting area until a table is free, so tables taking their sweet time = potential profits just sat there waiting and sometimes walking out. It's just interesting.

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Originally Posted by Tifa's Boobs

Maybe so, Quin.

I just got tired of seeing several times "I HATE WAITERS WHO RUSH ME OUT SO THEY CAN HAVE MORE TABLES TO GET MORE TIPS."

It's not always a personal thing.

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There's definitely one place I went to where that was the case though, because it was all you can eat and they'd always be mad when I'd order desert. If you don't want me ordering desert, don't have it on your all you can eat menu :monster:

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It happens. But probably not as often as people think. Which was my point.

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It's actually never crossed my mind that a waiter might rush someone out of a restaurant to earn more tips. That's probably because it's never happened to me as far as I can remember.

If it did happen, though, I'd give a crap tip and never come back.

I don't tip when at home, because this is the UK so I don't feel the need.
When I'm in the US I tip 10% max. Just call me Mr Pink.

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Originally Posted by Tifa's Boobs

Not to say there aren't cases. But most cases I've witnessed of this are when people sit at a table an hour or more after they've eaten. I've seen customers sit at table for 3 hours. One restaurant I worked out, when I clocked in at 4p, I took over the table from someone else, who had also taken over the table from someone else. They'd literally been there 7 hours. That's just being a bad customer. And while I know that most people don't do that, some do.

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I would've outright told them to leave. Seriously, I would have walked over asked them if they wished to order anything else when they said no, I would have said "well whilst I understand you're a paying customer, I really have to ask you to leave or else order something else because at the moment you're not a customer." If they refused to leave then insist or ask the manager to kick them out.

For me whenever I was doing the waiting tables as I cleared the main course I'd ask if they were interested in anything else, if yes I would order it there and then before clearing the table that way with coffees or cold desserts I could take them over right away or with hot ones it'd be in the kitchen preparing. When serving desserts I would also take the cheque to the table and leave it with the customer with the polite phrase "Just for when you're ready this is the cheque, if you require anything else just let me know" no customer I ever served took that as rude or got huffy about that. I wasn't pressuring them to leave I was merely multi-tasking and when it comes to a group of friends splitting the bill, giving it to them at that point will let them decide who is paying what over their desserts.

I ordered a sandwich almost two hours ago and it isn't here. Do I still tip the delivery driver?

There was a problem with the order so they had to remake it. They only told me this after I called them an hour and fifteen minutes after placing the initial order. They comped it and told me it would be delivered in about 10-15 minutes. 30 minutes later I called them and they told me the delivery driver hadn't left yet and was leaving right now (again). They gave me $10 store credit for my troubles.

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Originally Posted by Bunny

I ordered a sandwich almost two hours ago and it isn't here. Do I still tip the delivery driver?

There was a problem with the order so they had to remake it. They only told me this after I called them an hour and fifteen minutes after placing the initial order. They comped it and told me it would be delivered in about 10-15 minutes. 30 minutes later I called them and they told me the delivery driver hadn't left yet and was leaving right now (again). They gave me $10 store credit for my troubles.

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NO. You throw that sandwich in his face. :colbert:

They should have brought you two sandwiches as well. I would've been doubly hungry by then, at least.

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Originally Posted by Bunny

I ordered a sandwich almost two hours ago and it isn't here. Do I still tip the delivery driver?

There was a problem with the order so they had to remake it. They only told me this after I called them an hour and fifteen minutes after placing the initial order. They comped it and told me it would be delivered in about 10-15 minutes. 30 minutes later I called them and they told me the delivery driver hadn't left yet and was leaving right now (again). They gave me $10 store credit for my troubles.

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I would say yes, only because it probably isn't the fault of the driver in any way.

I wish I got tips at work.

Sometimes I haul my ass round the entire store looking for an item of clothing for a customer at a busy time when I should be doing something else. They'll then ask me to go up to the stock room, call other stores in the region, and sometimes I can be with one customer for a good 30 minutes when I have about 20 other tasks to do, but I do it with a smile on my face because that's my job, and usually the best I get is a forced 'Thanks' and sometimes not even that.

Pretty much, that. Whatever tips waiters feel they are entitled too, retail staff are entitled to double.

I'm actually going to not tip out of spite now. smurf you and your piss easy jobs. :colbert:

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Originally Posted by Tifa's Boobs

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Originally Posted by Bunny

I ordered a sandwich almost two hours ago and it isn't here. Do I still tip the delivery driver?

There was a problem with the order so they had to remake it. They only told me this after I called them an hour and fifteen minutes after placing the initial order. They comped it and told me it would be delivered in about 10-15 minutes. 30 minutes later I called them and they told me the delivery driver hadn't left yet and was leaving right now (again). They gave me $10 store credit for my troubles.

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I would say yes, only because it probably isn't the fault of the driver in any way.

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I didn't give her a tip because I ended up waiting almost two and a half hours for my sandwich, they did not call me at any point to update me on what was happening, and the person in charge of making the sandwich is also usually the one who delivers it to me.

I was fully prepared to give them a tip unless I had a call them a second time to figure out why my food wasn't there yet.

You seem to have a "tipping is always 100% necessary" rule going on that I don't really understand.

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Originally Posted by Lockharted

I wish I got tips at work.

Sometimes I haul my ass round the entire store looking for an item of clothing for a customer at a busy time when I should be doing something else. They'll then ask me to go up to the stock room, call other stores in the region, and sometimes I can be with one customer for a good 30 minutes when I have about 20 other tasks to do, but I do it with a smile on my face because that's my job, and usually the best I get is a forced 'Thanks' and sometimes not even that.

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Probably just as hard for most people too :)


My boss gets me to be both a dishwasher and cook two nights of the week. So annoying when we get really busy (and that's mon and tues so if we're open on a holiday there's no dishwasher ~.~). Then only a few waitresses know how to do the cash register so my boss (who is the only other person at the back) has to go out front for cash =/

Poor waitresses get screwed over a bit too because the other ones keep quitting

Interesting and relevant article.

Common Tipping Mistakes | Financially Fit - Yahoo! Shine

I tip way, way too much. Like 30% sometimes. Maybe because I feel all "oh noes this person might have a dog that needs surgery" or something.

Sigh.

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Originally Posted by Tifa's Boobs

Interesting and relevant article.

Common Tipping Mistakes | Financially Fit - Yahoo! Shine

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For Christ's sake, woman, get over it. We get it; tipping makes you wet. That's fine, just stop doing it all over the carpet! :colbert:

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Originally Posted by Jiro Jaggins

Tipping is weird. Why don't we just pay people the wages they're entitled to?

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Seriously. And why is it just in restaurants that people get tips? Do I not work 8 hours aswell and serve customers? Oh sorry, I work in a shop and people don't tip us. Tipping infuriates me :colbert:

Apparently, in Italy, no one tips very much because their wages don't suck near as bad as ours. :bigsmile:

i try to tip generously, but if the service sucks and there isn't a good reason for it, you're not getting a tip.

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Originally Posted by Nikki

Apparently, in Italy, no one tips very much because their wages don't suck near as bad as ours. :bigsmile:

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And the customer service is much better. Goes to show what happens when you pay people properly. :monster:

OOC:	The more I read about Italy, the better it sounds.

Have you seen Italian tv? Tits, everywhere.

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Originally Posted by Jiro Jaggins

Have you seen Italian tv? Tits, everywhere.

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Let's move to Italy.

There're tits everywhere on French TV too, it's weird.

Psh... EUROPE, AMIRIGHT? :bigsmile:

We haven't had many tits on British TV since Richard & Judy stopped airing in 2009.

Not that her tits were any good. I mean we're not exactly talking the tits of someone attractive.

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Originally Posted by Quinter Wonderland

There're tits everywhere on French TV too, it's weird.

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But they're French tits. And not Italian tits.

Italian anything > all other anything

Tips not tits here, people.

It's worth noting that the majority of tits on French TV are found on ads for Cancer Research. If you have no shame, you could enjoy it here.

Yeah, this has gone waaay off topic.

This discussion is not appropriate for EoFF. Let's get back on topic.

The other day I caught my boss stealing from the tip jar. I indirectly confronted him about it to give him a chance to fess up, and he said that a customer must have taken the money.