I was just thinking about that moment in FF3 when you realise the "world map" isnt "THE world map" and was wondering how many world maps you guys like to have in your FF
Printable View
I was just thinking about that moment in FF3 when you realise the "world map" isnt "THE world map" and was wondering how many world maps you guys like to have in your FF
0 is how many is needed, amirite, guys? :chuckle:
I've only played FFs with a single world map, so I suppose one. The danger with more than one world map is that places can be unrevisitable, for example in VI where the WoB turns to the WoR, the entire WoB is gone. Meaning all those places you could go to are gone. With one world map it's simpler and most places are revisitable.
Only one, please. So vexed the first time I played both FFV and FFVI. Not sayin', just sayin'. :(
I absolutely loved the changing world maps of the FF3-6 days. And I guess FF9 also kind of did that as well.
As for an absolute number I don't know that I can really comment, but 1 is way better than 0 and 2 is even better then one.
EDIT: Is it intentional that I can vote for 2-5 simultaneously? Because I just did.
I thought that FFV's three-but-really-just-one world map was pretty cool. Plus if you count the underwater world that is another map :D
I really have no preference. If you have just one map, do it right. If you have more, do it right.
I always wondered why so many SNES games started using multiple world maps, like if they were able to put a lot more story in the game, but their world maps could only be so large without overloading the system RAM...
While some games made it awesome, I suspect developers would have rather preferred to just tell one awesome story over a large world map.
I voted for 1, although I think RPGs may have evolved past the need for any world map at all. Dragon Quest VIII and Final Fantasy XII did such an awesome job of making every area to scale, which opens up a lot of possibilities for designers to incentivize exploration and hide away little secrets.
More than 5.
I can't think of any console JRPGs a large world map.Quote:
I always wondered why so many SNES games started using multiple world maps, like if they were able to put a lot more story in the game, but their world maps could only be so large without overloading the system RAM...
I'm going to disagree with you on the scale aspect of non-world map games. I don't exactly feel engaged when the entire game world exists in an area the size of my Saturday morning run.Quote:
although I think RPGs may have evolved past the need for any world map at all. Dragon Quest VIII and Final Fantasy XII did such an awesome job of making every area to scale,
Hmm, I thought the RPGs after that generation did a good job of having larger world maps, hence why they stopped the whole multiple world mechanic.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinGundam
Oh come on, you can at least give those two more credit than that! Especially DQVIII's, with how beautiful the change of day was...Quote:
I'm going to disagree with you on the scale aspect of non-world map games. I don't exactly feel engaged when the entire game world exists in an area the size of my Saturday morning run.
I like 2 or 3. I love exploring and once I explore the entire map I get a sense of disappointment like Alexander the Great. So when a whole new map opens up it makes me really happy.
Change of day still doesn't have any barring on how small a non-scaling world appears. I can only do so much when walking from Dalmasca to the heart of the Archadian empire is considerably less distance than an average weekday afternoon hike.
2 is my limit before the game just gets annoying.
Thing is, I don't think those world maps would often take up a lot of space really. Especially something like FFVI where, while the layout changed between the WOB and WOR, much of the art could simply be palette swapped in to save on space. It was a pretty simple way to save on storage space so they could have a larger world really, and without it feeling as visually repetitive as if you kept one world with one predominant art style.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
Say what you will about the older games, but they knew how to work within their limitations to get the most out of a game.
As for how many world maps I prefer, I prefer as many as the story requires or can justify. /cop out answer
I like lots of world maps. However, it's not really the several world maps that is important, it is how you constantly are shown things that you have no idea how to get to, and when you get to them, you suddenly realize that the entire world you thought you knew was just one small part of a much larger thing, and then you're shown even more places you have no idea how to get to there, etc.
It really gives me a desire to explore and go on a real adventure, and it is something I really miss in the later games. Take FF13 for example: for 95% of the game, if you can see something, it is either your next destination or just stupid background graphics that you can never ever actually travel to. There is no excitement, no wonder, no build-up. It just feels like a big ball of meh.
I want the game to tease me with exciting looking places that I can't get to until way later. It feels so rewarding when you can finally get there and the game just showers you with awesome stuff and the long wait just feels like it was so absolutely totally worth it.
Take FF7 as an example. At first, you have a huge city which feels really big and cool. Then you get out of it and you notice that it is just one small place in a huge world. As you travel to Junon, you see distant continents and islands as you travel the shorelines, and places on the other side of the mountain and all you think is "man i wonder what's up there, I can't wait to get there and find out". As you get to the other side of the ocean and get the buggy and drive to cosmo canyon, you see the ancient forest and have no way of getting there and really wonder what's up with that thing. You also notice a seemingly isolated waterfall with something that looks like a dock. What could that possibly mean? Could there be something up there? How the heck do I even get there? This is so exciting!
Most Final Fantasy games do this, until we ran into the PS2 ones. There's not a whole lot of this sort of excitement in FFX. There is some in FFXI and XII though, but not as much as on PS1 and earlier. In FF13, it's almost entirely gone again, and there's not a whole lot of it in 13-2 either. It's a shame, really.
Yes. This is what the world map's all about. The only thing I have to add is that I like being able to gauge my progress based on how much of the map I've been to. I always like knowing I'm making progress towards something, rather than just following a story. It's why Zelda games are so fun, because you know how many stones you need to find and each new one becomes a step to the ultimate goal of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
X didn't really have a world map, but I did like the actual map the game gave you to look at. Since the main objective in the game is to get to Zanarkand, I like the way you could look at your map and know how much closer you're getting to your goal. The only thing X didn't have map-wise was the feeling of awe and curiosity seeing places you can't reach yet but eventually might.
I thought XII did the 'world map' thing neat, too. You have a region map so you know where you are in relation to other locations, but the actual zones you cross through are areas themselves rather than just in-between areas. The big desert felt like a big desert, the coast felt like a coast, etc.
XIII just sucked, period. Even the menu map rotated North so I ended up getting lost so much on Pulse. How do you screw up a smurfing map? That's how.
I could just never really feel attached to the worlds that changed around. I'm happy enough with one, but I don't mind little changes like an island appearing from water or something. I just prefer having to take longer to explore the one world.
I don't mind changing worlds, and I must admit I really love the idea of having two worlds at once a la FFXIII, but with traversable world maps and a method of traveling between the two worlds. That would be funky.
If you count the underwater environs, then FFVII would actually be quite a good example of a world map. It's got one map, with a traversable smaller map which is useful in a couple situations. Because of the single map, the developers could add hidden secrets on the map, like the materia caves, that mythril man and the KoTR island. I loved VII's world map. And even with a huge meteor about to impact on you, you could still roam around doing stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
The main reason why I didn't like FFVIII's map is that after time compression you basically can't do anything. You're trapped. XIII also did this by making sure you could never get back to the locales in Chapter's one to ten. I liked the Sunleth Waterscape!
Yeah, underwater areas are sort of like an extra world map in the same world, so that counts towards several world maps for the purpose of this discussion, i would say.
VII's map is my personal favourite from I-IX. Like you guys, I like having a single, detailed map vs. two or three (IV and V) or one that changes drastically (VI).Quote:
Originally Posted by Formalhaut
VIII and IX have maps much more like VII's, but yeah they locked you out at a certain point. I also find that they feel a bit emptier (maybe this isn't the word for it?) than VII's. They're huge and all, but especially with VIII's it feels like there's a ton of ground to cover and you'll be traveling across entire countrysides with no actual locations to enter.
I haven't answered the poll yet, so I guess my answer is 1.
Despite speaking out for the end of world maps, I gotta say Mirage nailed the whole myster/wonder factor. I can't say every world map FF gave me that feeling, but I totally relate to FFVII having the other continent and certain places you can see but just can't quite get to yet. Being able to change the camera from top-down to over-the shoulder probably had a little to do with that.
I do think it's possible for non-world map games to do it, though, particularly with DQVIII how there were so many nooks and crannies, many of which resulted in awesome equipment or memorable side content.
I like having more than one, mostly for the reason Del gave. Once you get to the point where you've discovered everything there is to discover on a world map, that takes a lot of the excitement out of the game, so finding out that you have a lot more of the game to go is an awesome feeling. At least if it's a game that's worth playing. FFV's use of (SPOILER)two world maps that eventually merged to form a third was awesome and one of the best uses of world maps in the series. Wish more RPGs did things like that.
Mirage also nailed the way a good JRPG should unfold, which is the main reason I like games like FFIV through VII a lot more than games like FFX, where the progression was almost entirely linear until you got to the end of the game. In FFVI, for example, once you get the airship the WoB allows you to do a lot of cool sidequests, and that's only about a quarter of the way through the game. The WoR is even more non-linear.
Of course, none of these can compare to the sheer ingeniousness of the world design of something like Super Metroid, but the early FF games and the Chrono series did a pretty good job regardless.
>>> I would like to say lots of maps, but my fav game has only one and it was more than enough..:luca:
I feel sightly dirty for saying this, but I voted 0 based on the experience of FFXII. Of course, I miss the flying around in an airship looking for places to explore and running and coming across new locales and such, particularly in FFIX, but I preferred the exploration in FFXII. I liked seeing how places linked up, exploring each nook and cranny to find different things and the travelling between towns just felt so much more of an adventure.
Having said that, I really liked how FFV dealt with world maps. Genuinely innovative and a really clever way to inject life into a tied and tested format.
I voted for 0 and 5. 0 based on FFXII and 5 because Chrono Trigger is basically one of the best RPGs ever, in part due to how it dealt with world maps.