HATERS GONNA HATE, FFX style

And I will hate.

I tried to play FFX recently (maybe I'm still playing it, I dunno) and it just seems to suck. The menu sucks and the voice acting sucks and the character design sucks (Lulu, whachoo doin' wearing that fur dress in Besaid? Girl.), the weapons suck.

Most importantly, the beginning sucks something fierce. It's so slow, and it's just a bunch of swimming around random ruins with the worst controls and camera control. Even the HUD seems way too proportionally large, making rooms look bigger than they really are by making every little fallen pillar visible on the HUD.

Let me rant about the camera some more: When you are in that little Besaid village, there are THREE smurfing screens before you enter the temple, which just seems so unnecessary and disorienting. First, there's the camera on the village itself. Then, as you approach the temple, the camera moves and the screen changes. Then, as you near the door, the camera and screen change again to zoom more in on the steps/hallway before you enter the temple. What the hell is the point of that?! When you walk quickly into the temple it's like FLASH FLASH FLASH. I probably explained that horribly, but maybe someone will know what I mean. And they do this everywhere!

This may be temporary hatred. Maybe I'll reach a point and I'll be like, "Oh, I remember this, I love this, this game isn't so bad!"

But right now it's a huge suckfest. Haters, hate with me.

I bought a PS2 back in 2002 solely to play this. Everyone I knew was raving about how great it was. After three hours of not having an ounce of fun I just rode my bike to Hollywood Video and rented Devil May Cry instead. I've been picking it up on and off since then. Can't kill Sin, don't care, Tidus dies (thanks #eoff).

I also hate this game.

Hey, dude, me too! I started playing again recently as well! Let me share my hate with a small little story.

Crew Member: Holy trout, Sin's attacking our ship! What do we do?!
Wakka: Let me take a crack at him!
Crew Member: With what?
Wakka: My Blitzball!
Crew Member: ... We're so smurfing boned.

Just so many stupid things about this game now that I go back and play through it all again. How did I fall in love with... THIS? I'll never really know... Hopefully, like you said, I'll remember later on.

Yes. YES. It's about time people realize just how insipidly stupid this game's plot is. It's filled with cliched, gimmicky, unlikable characters, an incredibly pretentious theme in a convoluted plot that ceases to make sense if you think about it after like 5 minutes of thinking about it, and some of the worst character designs ever. Tidus and Wakka in particular. Oh, and the Sphere Grid is the worst character advancement mechanic ever. At least with the Crystarium you had multiple roles to advance.

The voice acting, location design, and battle system are good though.

I was loving on the FFX hate until Laddy said the voice acting was good.

No. Tidus and Yuna make me want to just stop playing, hearing them speak alone. I will put down the damn controller and walk away.

i just left the room and made lunch during the part in moonflow where they were making out or whatever. and that awkward laughing scene is cringe worthy. the cutscene before you have to fight Lady Yunalesca is pretty cool the first four times you see it though.

smurf yunalesca so much, man. that's the worst boss fight ever.

Final Fantasy X is amazing. It has terrible voice-acting but the battle system, Sphere Grid and storyline is bloody fantastic. So emotional and beautiful. I love Yuna's huge crush on Seymour at the beginning and her friendship towards Tidus and then when Yuna finds out that Seymour has killed his own dad she gets all emotional and Tidus tries not to get upset about the wedding idea, then Yuna stands up to Seymour when he plans to use her like a chess piece and Tidus kissing Yuna in the lake aaand then Tidus finding out that Yuna is on a serious suicidal mission and just all the cries.

And the ending. So many cries.

And it has Rikku in it. One of the best Final Fantasy females. She's cheerful, but not annoying cheerful. She's naive, but not annoying naive like Yuna. She's intelligent and wise and is a good friend to even Wakka who is incredibly racist towards her.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clo

No. Tidus and Yuna make me want to just stop playing, hearing them speak alone. I will put down the damn controller and walk away.

---

Haha. I usually turn down the volume unless it's a good song coming up or playing and just rock out to Bruno Mars or something. The only one who has a good voice is Auron.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clo

I was loving on the FFX hate until Laddy said the voice acting was good.

---

OH GOD NO I COMPLETELY MESSED UP THERE. I meant the music. The music is some of the best in the series.

The voice acting, with the exception of Rikku, Auron, and Jecht, was either flat (Yuna, Seymour, Kimahri, Lulu) or obnoxious (Tidus, Wakka). So yeah, the voice acting was embarrassingly bad.

I'm going to have to go and get Pete and we'll have to educate you all on why you're wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clo

I tried to play FFX recently (maybe I'm still playing it, I dunno) and it just seems to suck. The menu sucks and the voice acting sucks and the character design sucks (Lulu, whachoo doin' wearing that fur dress in Besaid? Girl.), the weapons suck.

---

Her dress is made out of belts. It's a Nomura thing, just run with it.

Quote:

---

Most importantly, the beginning sucks something fierce. It's so slow, and it's just a bunch of swimming around random ruins

---

Final Fantasy VII's beginning sucks. It's just a bunch of running around Mako Reactors. Final Fantasy VIII's beginning sucks. It's just a bunch of running around Balamb Garden. Final Fantasy IX's beginning sucks. It's just a bunch of running around the Prima Vista and then Alexandria. Please note that all the while there are tutorial battles and character introductions.

Say you were transported to a foreign world after coming into contact with a demonic whale. Would you wake up and immediately start fighting something? Or would you bust out your phone and have a rock concert right there on your own? It's slow because that's how pacing works. Final Fantasy X is not simply a game, it is a story telling experience.

Quote:

---

with the worst controls and camera control. Even the HUD seems way too proportionally large, making rooms look bigger than they really are by making every little fallen pillar visible on the HUD.

---

The HUD is pretty bollocks and sometimes the controls aren't quite what I'd expect. Oh well. There's a million other games that do it worse. Kingdom Hearts has atrocious camera control.

Quote:

---

Let me rant about the camera some more: When you are in that little Besaid village, there are THREE smurfing screens before you enter the temple, which just seems so unnecessary and disorienting. First, there's the camera on the village itself. Then, as you approach the temple, the camera moves and the screen changes. Then, as you near the door, the camera and screen change again to zoom more in on the steps/hallway before you enter the temple. What the hell is the point of that?! When you walk quickly into the temple it's like FLASH FLASH FLASH. I probably explained that horribly, but maybe someone will know what I mean. And they do this everywhere!

---

I know what you mean. Hey, next time you watch a movie, tell me if they use one camera angle. Final Fantasy X wanted to create absolutely breathtaking environments, and it did. Could you imagine if it was just 2D and you didn't get to see the intricacies of the environment? While, yes, three screens is Besaid seems a bit excessive, you have to remember that previously these three areas might have had actual loading transitions. When you walk through Narshe, the screen pans up. When you walk through Corneria, the camera pans too. Other locations like, say, parts of Midgar, have entirely separate screens for different parts of the same Slum area.

Once again I reiterate that FFX is not simply trying to be a game. It was trying to infuse a rich storyline with detailed environments to create an experience. I mean at least you're only fresh to the game. You can't possibly be wrong forever, unlike the rest of these haters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Red Mage Coffman

Hey, dude, me too! I started playing again recently as well! Let me share my hate with a small little story.

Crew Member: Holy trout, Sin's attacking our ship! What do we do?!
Wakka: Let me take a crack at him!
Crew Member: With what?
Wakka: My Blitzball!
Crew Member: ... We're so smurfing boned.

Just so many stupid things about this game now that I go back and play through it all again. How did I fall in love with... THIS? I'll never really know... Hopefully, like you said, I'll remember later on.

---

So the mechanic of Wakka's physical attack is a bit iffy. Have you ever been smashed in the face by a basketball before? Because I imagine it to be similar to that. But, let's take a look at some of the other strange weapon types before we start calling this one out.

Final Fantasy IX's rackets. What do they even do? Flings light balls at people. Sure. Next time I'm playing tennis I'll be sure to give that a go. Eiko also uses flutes. Yeah, way to beat something with an instrument, I'm sure that's going to help. Let's not forget that Quina uses forks as a weapon either.

Several games make use of books as a weapon. I know Jason Bourne can kill a man with a magazine and a hardcover but I think you'll find the true lethality is in the fact that it is magic. What happened last time you tried to play Blitzball? It's pretty hard to get it to work considering the game relies on physics and technology not present in our world. Who's to say that Blitzballs themselves don't have strange qualities.

I'm not even done with examples yet. Gunblades. Rinoa's Blaster Edges. The smurfing recurring boomerang which, despite the actual function, still manages to return after every throw. Barret's Gunarm which is fired...how? Where does the ammunition enter it? Nanaki's hair clips? What the smurf? Megaphones? There are numerous more examples of stupid weapons. You seem to have more complaints though, so lay 'em on me and I can tell you why you're wrong ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Laddy

Yes. YES. It's about time people realize just how insipidly stupid this game's plot is. It's filled with cliched, gimmicky, unlikable characters, an incredibly pretentious theme in a convoluted plot that ceases to make sense if you think about it after like 5 minutes of thinking about it, and some of the worst character designs ever.

---

Let's deal with the characters first. Clichéd? Perhaps. They do fit into some archetypes. But then, they're meant to. The point is to have a group of people working together who complement and clash with each other. But they're not 2D carbon copies of archetypes either. Tidus is a whiny douchebag? Okay, but he's also got severe childhood issues with his father and mother. Plus, he stands up to everything when he decides that the woman he loves isn't going to die. What about Tidus being the egomaniac sports star? Again, he's got a bunch of insecurities because he's always living in his father's shadow. Then he gets transported to a completely different world and is still living in his father's shadow, only this time his father is a giant smurfing whale monster who is hell bent on destroying everything. Then he has to come to terms with his own mortality, a complete existential crisis because he's not even real and does it all while still maintaining his flaws; that is, he's still a fish out of water and completely clueless on how to act in Spira.

Should I write essays on all of the characters or will that suffice for now?

Quote:

---

Tidus and Wakka in particular.

---

Ugh Tidus and Wakka are two of the better characters.

Quote:

---

Oh, and the Sphere Grid is the worst character advancement mechanic ever. At least with the Crystarium you had multiple roles to advance.

---

At least with the Crystarium you had no options. Oh wait, that's not a positive. You can do whatever the smurf you want with the Sphere Grid. You can nerf yourself for crying out loud. The Crystarium is just like FFXIII itself in that it pretends to give you options but it is really a lengthy corridor.

Quote:

---

The voice acting, location design, and battle system are good though.

---

Well we're in agreement on this then.

I'll be back to respond to the inevitable wrongness that this thread breeds soon :aimsun:

EDIT:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Laddy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clo

I was loving on the FFX hate until Laddy said the voice acting was good.

---

OH GOD NO I COMPLETELY MESSED UP THERE. I meant the music. The music is some of the best in the series.

The voice acting, with the exception of Rikku, Auron, and Jecht, was either flat (Yuna, Seymour, Kimahri, Lulu) or obnoxious (Tidus, Wakka). So yeah, the voice acting was embarrassingly bad.

---

The music is good. The voice acting is not amazing, I'll give you that. Keep in mind that it was the first outing for SE on voice acting. Yuna is probably my least favourite voice because she just makes me tired but I would say the rest are still passable. Well I mean Kimahri doesn't really even count as being voiced.

The only thing I really truly enjoyed about X was the CTB battle system. It was new, fresh, and it was to play around with.

That said...
The Sphere Grid system is my biggest gripe and makes me cringe. It gives you the false impression that you have the ability to develop your characters with a hands-on approach. It does not do that. You are basically railroaded in to one line of growth for each character with only minor pit-stops along the way. You can't open the sphere grid to really do anything you want until you're almost done with the game. And then what's the point? Everyone is pretty much already set in their ways and it's no use to change it.

The characters were meh. Archetypes that aren't even new for the series. I had trouble caring about any of them.

Much like XIII, this game is extremely linear and does not leave much for a second playthrough.

Quote:

---

Let's deal with the characters first. Clichéd? Perhaps. They do fit into some archetypes. But then, they're meant to. The point is to have a group of people working together who complement and clash with each other. But they're not 2D carbon copies of archetypes either. Tidus is a whiny douchebag? Okay, but he's also got severe childhood issues with his father and mother. Plus, he stands up to everything when he decides that the woman he loves isn't going to die. What about Tidus being the egomaniac sports star? Again, he's got a bunch of insecurities because he's always living in his father's shadow. Then he gets transported to a completely different world and is still living in his father's shadow, only this time his father is a giant smurfing whale monster who is hell bent on destroying everything. Then he has to come to terms with his own mortality, a complete existential crisis because he's not even real and does it all while still maintaining his flaws; that is, he's still a fish out of water and completely clueless on how to act in Spira.

---

I don't doubt that a lot of Final Fantasy X's ideas are intentional. But intentional does not equal well-executed.

I never doubted Tidus' situation with his father and his home being genuine, I never doubted that his reaction was deserved. My issue is that it was handled with all the subtlety of a nuclear bomb. Tidus dislikes his father, yes, but this is rarely explained in ways other than him talking about constantly.

I understand it's an important aspect of the plot, but they really should have used a "show, don't tell" storytelling mechanic. Tidus really only has one method of displaying his dislike for the guy: talking about it. And while I can understand the need for such dialogue, going through 40 hours of less-than-stellar voicing about his poor relationship with his father eventually gets a bit tiring.

And again, I realize Tidus' situation in being an unfamiliar world is significant as well. But again, this is handled with little subtlety. He blatantly disrespects people's beliefs and customs from the get-go (and even as wrong as they are, he had no reason to believe this at that point). I realize he wants to go home and doesn't fit in, but after 40 hours of him speaking about this it eventually loses its sympathy.

In short: Tidus as a character isn't a problem, it's the lack of subtlety in the writing that causes him to be unappealing as his desires and insecurities either become a topic of long conversation or handled in a way in which his motives are not well-defined. I think the character's struggles should have been weaved in to the story more through his unspoken reactions and hints rather than multiple speeches.

Clo,

If you're having trouble wanting to continue already, just wait until you get to Luca. It's one of the biggest trolls designed by a big-name company.

I think FFX is overall a pretty ill-conceived game (not necessarily a bad one). I like it in a way, despite the game itself really not wanting me to.

Whoever said Yuna starts the game off having a crush on Seymour is just WRONG.

>>> lol, all your complains about this game are exactly what I love the most on it..:luca:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by My Little Pokey

The only thing I really truly enjoyed about X was the CTB battle system. It was new, fresh, and it was to play around with.

That said...
The Sphere Grid system is my biggest gripe and makes me cringe. It gives you the false impression that you have the ability to develop your characters with a hands-on approach. It does not do that. You are basically railroaded in to one line of growth for each character with only minor pit-stops along the way. You can't open the sphere grid to really do anything you want until you're almost done with the game. And then what's the point? Everyone is pretty much already set in their ways and it's no use to change it.

---

I'm going to assume you have never used the expert sphere grid. In that, all the characters are in the centre and you can choose them wherever they wish. The whole point of the standard grid was to people who didn't really wanted to be bothered with planning their route.

I didn't event mention the monologue.

It turns out monologues in video game don't feel right.

But the music is good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Formalhaut

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by My Little Pokey

The only thing I really truly enjoyed about X was the CTB battle system. It was new, fresh, and it was to play around with.

That said...
The Sphere Grid system is my biggest gripe and makes me cringe. It gives you the false impression that you have the ability to develop your characters with a hands-on approach. It does not do that. You are basically railroaded in to one line of growth for each character with only minor pit-stops along the way. You can't open the sphere grid to really do anything you want until you're almost done with the game. And then what's the point? Everyone is pretty much already set in their ways and it's no use to change it.

---

I'm going to assume you have never used the expert sphere grid. In that, all the characters are in the centre and you can choose them wherever they wish. The whole point of the standard grid was to people who didn't really wanted to be bothered with planning their route.

---

Yeah I never have. But that's because all America got was the troutty hold-your-hand edition of the Sphere Grid. :(

I'd like to try out the other one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tifa's Boobs

Whoever said Yuna starts the game off having a crush on Seymour is just WRONG.

---

Err. Me.

How am I wrong ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by My Little Pokey

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Formalhaut

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by My Little Pokey

The only thing I really truly enjoyed about X was the CTB battle system. It was new, fresh, and it was to play around with.

That said...
The Sphere Grid system is my biggest gripe and makes me cringe. It gives you the false impression that you have the ability to develop your characters with a hands-on approach. It does not do that. You are basically railroaded in to one line of growth for each character with only minor pit-stops along the way. You can't open the sphere grid to really do anything you want until you're almost done with the game. And then what's the point? Everyone is pretty much already set in their ways and it's no use to change it.

---

I'm going to assume you have never used the expert sphere grid. In that, all the characters are in the centre and you can choose them wherever they wish. The whole point of the standard grid was to people who didn't really wanted to be bothered with planning their route.

---

Yeah I never have. But that's because all America got was the troutty hold-your-hand edition of the Sphere Grid. :(

I'd like to try out the other one.

---

I do feel sorry for the Americans. They got left with such a vanilla version of the game!

There are a lot of things I dislike about FFX, but in the grand scheme of things I still think it's a good game. One of the weaker in the series? Absolutely. A game that I enjoyed playing? Certainly. A bad game? Definitely not.

I think for a start we need to establish what we're going to judge the game against. I'm going to assume, for the sake of the argument, that part of the reason people dislike the game is because they judge it against the likes of VI, VII, IX. Also I'm going to assume that as we're on a Final Fantasy message board that people generally like those games and hold them in high regard. Is FFX a bad game in its own right? No, it is not. Is it less good than many other entries in the series? Yes, in my opinion it is. There are many, many terrible games I can point you to but I can assure you that FFX is not one of them. To indulge in a bit of motoring hyperbole, judging a BMW 6 series against an Aston Martin, a Ferrari and a Bugatti Veyron, there's an obvious weak link there in a very skewed sample. If you add a Fiat Panda, a Reliant Robin and a Ford Ka into the mix, the BMW doesn't look too bad. I think that's one reason why the game is judged harshly. And I say this as somebody who would much rather play VI, VII and IX. We're comparing FFX against some very good games.

FFX does an awful lot of things well - to an extent I would say it's does them better than many other games in the series. For my money, the battle system is surpassed only by FFXII. The music is excellent, graphically it's very pretty and the environments themselves are pretty impressive. I'd probably go so far as to say that Spira is probably one of the better and certainly more memorable worlds, if only for how vivid it is.

As I've alluded to, FFX is not one of my favourite entries in the series and I tend to rank it pretty lowly. I'm not a big fan of the voice acting, but I think that's partly because I've seen it done much better since, not least by FFXII. The sphere grid I can see people's objections to it - certainly if you didn't get the PAL version (as I did).

One of my major criticisms, and something that has come out in this thread, is Tidus. In spite of some hilarious send-ups, he isn't that bad. I agree, his voice acting is annoying, his character is pretty tedious at times, and he is whiny. I did and do find him annoying. But let's face it, he's not exactly alone in the category of annoying protagonists, is he (cf. Squall Leonhart)? And actually, I think Jiro did a pretty good of showing that he isn't as one dimensional and terrible as people make out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by maybee

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tifa's Boobs

Whoever said Yuna starts the game off having a crush on Seymour is just WRONG.

---

Err. Me.

How am I wrong ?

---

You're wrong in that Yuna's feelings toward Seymour are not romantic. She is, however, attracted to his power and respects him highly as a Maester of Yevon. He's also kind of oddly charming, in a way, which might have interested Yuna at one point or another. I don't think true romantic feelings ever develop, but Yuna certainly likes him at the beginning of the game in much the same was that people like (and show reverence to) the Pope without actually knowing him personally.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Heath

FFX does an awful lot of things well - to an extent I would say it's does them better than many other games in the series. For my money, the battle system is surpassed only by FFXII. The music is excellent, graphically it's very pretty and the environments themselves are pretty impressive. I'd probably go so far as to say that Spira is probably one of the better and certainly more memorable worlds, if only for how vivid it is.

---

This is a lot like how I feel, and it's why I can't come out and say I just hate the damn game, even though on the grand scheme of mainline FF games I put this one as about third to last.

I wouldn't like it either if I was playing the useless NA version. The endgame/dark aeons and alternative sphere grid are half the fun.

I'd probably even consider buying the HD version if it came out as the International Version.

Games I don't like, yet buying more than once. Final Fantasy, everyone.

I will say this, Final Fantasy X's atmosphere is one of the best of any game, ever.

FFX's soundtrack is one of the Top 3 in the series, imo. The world design, lore, and races are interesting and draw you in. The culture is very fleshed-out as well. And while the gameplay and plot are underwhelming, the world, battle system, and production values more than warrant the HD purchase for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flying Arrow

I'd probably even consider buying the HD version if it came out as the International Version.

Games I don't like, yet buying more than once. Final Fantasy, everyone.

---

Pretty much this. The gameplay was one of the few things I liked about the game, and being able to play a version that provided much more possibility for challenge would strike me as quite enjoyable. (Though there are some parts where the gameplay just gets annoying - Yunalesca is one of the more annoying boss battles in the series).

The story has a lot of good ideas, but it was executed with all the subtlety of a bag of hammers. Most of the characters had little nuance and the voice acting was almost uniformly trout (which is particularly disappointing since I've heard several of these people in other works and I know they can act).

Things that were actually well done: Once the sphere grid opens up it becomes possibly the series' second-most interesting customisation system after the job system. The game also does a good job of convincing you you're actually in a real place that exists; there are a lot of interesting and diverse cultures and the world looks and feels real. And, of course, the soundtrack is great (although I wouldn't say it's top three material in a series that includes FFV, FFVI, FFVII, and FFIX).

as long as the Chocobo in FFX HDRemix isnt near as retarded as the one in the original release, wow, endless hours of frustration trying to get a time of 00:00:00 with that idiot bird... not sure id ever try again without a cheat device of some kind, lol...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elly

as long as the Chocobo in FFX HDRemix isnt near as retarded as the one in the original release, wow, endless hours of frustration trying to get a time of 00:00:00 with that idiot bird... not sure id ever try again without a cheat device of some kind, lol...

---

Or that blasted dodging 200 lightning bolts, or that blasted butterfly catching game. Or that blasted Blitzball game which I can't be arsed with...

The gameplay was awesome. The story had its flaws, but I still thought it was an great game.

Looks like this thread is slowly turning into an FFX-love thread :p but no worries, I'm already in that zone and it's good!

I just wanna say... I think a lot of weapons in the Final Fantasy series are retarded. Blitzball, I like to pick on though :D

As for every other weapon Jiro mentioned, I hate them all too. Great minds think alike, mind you.

I thought Jiro's epic rant was pretty good. I can respect a good rant, I do it all the time. But...

OBJECTION!

I agree with mostly everything you said... However, bad writing can ruin anything. ANYTHING. Laddy makes this a good point above. There is a lot of bad writing is this game. I'm not saying that every other FF game has super epic writing, I'm just saying this one, along with some infamous others, have bad writing and thus destroys, what could have been, a really good character.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Man

Things that were actually well done: Once the sphere grid opens up it becomes possibly the series' second-most interesting customisation system after the job system. The game also does a good job of convincing you you're actually in a real place that exists; there are a lot of interesting and diverse cultures and the world looks and feels real. And, of course, the soundtrack is great (although I wouldn't say it's top three material in a series that includes FFV, FFVI, FFVII, and FFIX).[/theman]

---

My issue with X is that no matter how tweaked the Sphere Grid is, I'm still going to end up running through hallways with a large encounter rate and the same enemies over and over again.

I'm sure the game becomes more interesting, but I'm still hitting armor with armor piercing and magic-casting on blobs, etc.

I don't know a whole lot about X International, so I may be totally wrong on how the experience plays out.

That's a fair point; the encounter rate is rather ridiculous.

And the enemies you do face are just palette swapped with the odd new move or whatever. The monster designs for this game for me was just slightly dull. There's no "Whoa, that's a scary/interesting/innovative" monster.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Red Mage Coffman

I thought Jiro's epic rant was pretty good. I can respect a good rant, I do it all the time. But...

OBJECTION!

I agree with mostly everything you said... However, bad writing can ruin anything. ANYTHING. Laddy makes this a good point above. There is a lot of bad writing is this game. I'm not saying that every other FF game has super epic writing, I'm just saying this one, along with some infamous others, have bad writing and thus destroys, what could have been, a really good character.

---

Oh, you might notice that his post has been repped. That was me :greenie: His post is good, I just haven't had a chance to provide a counter argument yet. I guess I'll do that now!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Laddy

I don't doubt that a lot of Final Fantasy X's ideas are intentional. But intentional does not equal well-executed.

I never doubted Tidus' situation with his father and his home being genuine, I never doubted that his reaction was deserved. My issue is that it was handled with all the subtlety of a nuclear bomb. Tidus dislikes his father, yes, but this is rarely explained in ways other than him talking about constantly.

---

I'm glad we're focusing on Tidus, because this is by far the easiest to explain. You see, the game is from Tidus's perspective. Not just that, but he is the narrator for the first part, up until you actually reach Zanarkand. There are definitely didactic elements, I'm not going to deny that, but I think you are overstating how "bad" the writing is. We're given a pretty decent insight into the split personality Tidus has going on - his quiet, reflective internal dialogue vs his completely inane and boisterous personality shown to the others. He's blundering around like that as a cover for the fact that he is terrified of being in an unknown world. It's similar to that situation where people are nervous and so they talk too much.

Quote:

---

I understand it's an important aspect of the plot, but they really should have used a "show, don't tell" storytelling mechanic. Tidus really only has one method of displaying his dislike for the guy: talking about it. And while I can understand the need for such dialogue, going through 40 hours of less-than-stellar voicing about his poor relationship with his father eventually gets a bit tiring.

---

There aren't a lot of alternatives. The fact that he doesn't bring up Sin is Jecht to his companions is a good demonstration of him trying to deal with the problem himself; later, when it is revealed, he tries to rely on his friends to pick him up. Talking about something is a good way to explain and understand something.

Quote:

---

And again, I realize Tidus' situation in being an unfamiliar world is significant as well. But again, this is handled with little subtlety. He blatantly disrespects people's beliefs and customs from the get-go (and even as wrong as they are, he had no reason to believe this at that point). I realize he wants to go home and doesn't fit in, but after 40 hours of him speaking about this it eventually loses its sympathy.

---

I addressed this above. He's out of his comfort zone and this is when his insecurities show through strongest and require gross covering up. He tries to be hyper social to make people accept him but it just goes really really badly.

Quote:

---

In short: Tidus as a character isn't a problem, it's the lack of subtlety in the writing that causes him to be unappealing as his desires and insecurities either become a topic of long conversation or handled in a way in which his motives are not well-defined. I think the character's struggles should have been weaved in to the story more through his unspoken reactions and hints rather than multiple speeches.

---

You are accurate, and things are not flawless. But I still think you're overstating it. This will be one of those times where our subjectivity puts us at odds, I suppose!





Also:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Formalhaut

And the enemies you do face are just palette swapped with the odd new move or whatever. The monster designs for this game for me was just slightly dull. There's no "Whoa, that's a scary/interesting/innovative" monster.

---

I think you'll find that every single Final Fantasy game does the same thing.

I am not reading any of the other posts in this thread besides Clo's original, which I agree with. FFX is the worst.

FFX-lovers, I appreciate that you have come to defend your game en masse, but I will continue to tote my FFX hating ways in this thread. Jiro, I also pretty much disagree with everything you said. Still love you though!

I have begun playing FFIX, which is a much better game and so much more entertaining and, oh, I dunno, fun. The difference is astounding.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shorty

I am not reading any of the other posts in this thread besides Clo's original, which I agree with. FFX is the worst.

---

Says the person who loves FFVIII.

I do love FFVIII, and I recognize it for it's mediocrity. Never have I claimed that FFVIII is a fantastic game. :aimkiss:

(but yes, it is better than FFX)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tifa's Boobs

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shorty

I am not reading any of the other posts in this thread besides Clo's original, which I agree with. FFX is the worst.

---

Says the person who loves FFVIII.

---

Uhm, DON'T EVEN START. That game is better than FFX. Showty, got yo back girl.

Sistas for LIFE

FFVIII is better simply for the fact that those damn characters didn't have voices.

This I will back up exponentially. Had to put the damn game on mute because I hated the voices so much.

Granted, the FFVIII characters suck. And the storyline is actually weaker than FFX, but to be honest, the overarching storyline is one of the few things about FFX that had a modicum of decency to it.

I have an excuse to post this again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sephex

I have an excuse to post this again.

---

This. This is exactly how I feel about Tidus. And the ending of that is beautiful.

That's another HORRIBLE point for Tidus: his unlived desire to tell his dad he hated him. What kind of teenagery emotional garbage is that, smurf that.

SO CUT MY WRISTS AND BLACK MY EYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES
COS MY HEART IS IN SPIRAAAAAAAAAA



I can just imagine Tidus in a darkened room listening to Hawthorne Hights by himself.

Notwithstanding Jiro's painfully forced FFX apologetics about other games sucking just as much, FFX does suck. Terrible characters, terrible voice acting, terrible plot points (with a decent overarching story), terrible cutscenes, and an overrated leveling system in the sphere grid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jiro

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Formalhaut

And the enemies you do face are just palette swapped with the odd new move or whatever. The monster designs for this game for me was just slightly dull. There's no "Whoa, that's a scary/interesting/innovative" monster.

---

I think you'll find that every single Final Fantasy game does the same thing.

---

I'd say FFX's lengthy hallways, frequent encounter rate, and rock-paper-scissors combat system exacerbate the issue, more than any other palette-swapping the other games do. Every area is designed to have a wolf, a blob, an element, a bird, etc, and they're all palette-coloured based on the environment. And really, there aren't that many unique locations in the game to begin with, so the samey-ness of it is a lot more noticeable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raistlin

painfully forced

---

God your posts must be excruciating to write if you think mine was painful or forced. :greenie:

It takes practice.

Tidus is still a terrible character. :colbert:

Also, regardless of how well made the battle system was, it is such a piss easy game it doesn't matter.

To make it worse, at the very beginning they give you the stratagy on how to beat every monster in the game. Literally, they walk you through how to not try in the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tifa's Boobs

COS MY HEART IS IN SPIRAAAAAAAAAA

---

Why did I read this as Sparta lol ? :jess:

I like Tidus. But then again I disagree about most things in this thread. :mad:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jowy

Tidus dies (thanks #eoff).

---

He does not.

Also, I actually like this game, a bit.

I liked FFX because it was the first game for Playstation 2 I ever got, and I loved playing it when I was 12-13 (I think...)

I loved Rikku the most because she was so cheerful and full of energy, as for the game itself it was really enjoyable for me, I loved the designs and the magic and the Sphere grid and the monsters! Ahh except that.. thing erm that thing you fight on the Airship Evrae? He gave me some major trout.

I like Rikku the most too.

Not saying much.

Lulu is so useless I just want to poke her in her fricking eye

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clo

I like Rikku the most too.

Not saying much.

Lulu is so useless I just want to poke her in her fricking eye

---

But boobs. :(

And cute animal robot toys :jess:

they werent robots, they were plushies powered by black magic, lol... but yes Lulu=awesome, no way around it, she was the first Black Mage i actualy found useful in the series...
untill Lulu i always shelved my Black Mages for a simple reason, a few hits and theyre the first ones dead, they fire off a couple spells and theyre out of magic untill you can get to an inn or a super expensive restorative item (when compared to all others) Ether...
i found in early game Black Mages are too weak and expensive to maintain, when FFX came around Lulu had plenty of MP to use early game compared to her predicesors, and to make it better her magic actualy did damage and it maintained it throughout the entire game, so out of all the Black Mages of FF past, Lulu was the first one done right...

Things I Liked About Final Fantasy X

- Some of the music was fantastic
- Blitzball was reasonably fun



Things I did not like

- everything else

I'm exaggerating, there were other enjoyable things about it but it wasn't great and it wasn't terrible

It's unfashionable but I've still had the most fun of any FF, playing Final Fantasy IX. Still the worst was FFVIII, I swear to smurf that was so emo i nearly pissed tears.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cuchulainn

Still the worst was FFVIII, I swear to smurf that was so emo i nearly pissed tears.

---

I'm the opposite. I love the Junction system so much I cried piss.

FFX is a good game.

Unlike FFVIII and IX, it didn't throw the majority of the party under a bus. It gave each character their own arc and conflict to overcome and they remained relevant from start to finish. It also avoids the common flaw of FF games - the flaw of "why the hell are they even in the party?" - by having a common objective from the start of the game.

The voice-acting is passable and even good in some points. It's not up to Metal Gear Solid 2 or Xenosaga to be certain but it's far from awful. The direction is the problem.

The game does a fabulous job with atmosphere, establishing this bright and colorful world that is simultaneously also the darkest and most depressing world ever seen in an FF game.

Seymour was a good villain. He didn't have the menace of most other FF baddies but he obviously wasn't intended to. When there's a giant doomwhale that might attack, it's hard to find anything else intimidating.
No, Seymour was intended as an evil counterpart to both Yuna and the party as a whole. His overall goal or motivation was in essence the same as the party's - liberation from the Spiral of Death.

I felt the "big important scenes" were also executed absolutely perfectly. Yuna is gonna die might have been obvious as hell but that didn't make the reveal iN Home any less emotionally charged.
Facing down and rejecting Yunalesca was also one of the best scenes ever in the franchise.

The soundtrack was fantastic and contains some of the best pieces ever heard in the series.

There is no defending the costumes though... Well, I defend Rikku's because I like staring at her.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flying Arrow

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cuchulainn

Still the worst was FFVIII, I swear to smurf that was so emo i nearly pissed tears.

---

I'm the opposite. I love the Junction system so much I cried piss.

---

This.

Minus the..... crying to piss bit.... :erm:

Yeah I don't know what's with liquids being dispersed from the wrong orifices but you should probably get that checked out

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flying Arrow

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cuchulainn

Still the worst was FFVIII, I swear to smurf that was so emo i nearly pissed tears.

---

I'm the opposite. I love the Junction system so much I cried piss.

---

Jecht
"You'll cry. You're gonna cry. You always cry, see? You're crying."

Everything about FFX is goddamn magical, it is the best FF game, I hope those of you who disagree enjoy being wrong because you COULD NOT BE MORE WRONG.

Milf is the kind of guy who would have been in support of Mao during WW2.

Just sayin.

(SPOILER)I"VE BEEN DRINKING!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF

Everything about FFX is goddamn magical, it is the best FF game, I hope those of you who disagree enjoy being wrong because you COULD NOT BE MORE WRONG.

---

Goddammit, MILF. How do manage to breathe will being so goddamn wrong lately?

Okay. I don't find FF X to be completely awful, but the best Final Fantasy ? The best of the best ? .... no.

Too many flaws holding it back.

psst whisper voice. voice acting.

Tidus " HA-HA-HA-HA HA HA -HAH " ! " HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA--HAH " ! " HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HAH " !!

Yuna. Oh god. Please stop. You're raping my ears.

The voice acting isn't what made that scene bad. Square Enix's writing is what made that scene bad.

The Japanese version is a million times worse.

What's wrong with the scene exactly? It establishes their personalities, shows them growing closer together, and is a rather believable exchange between two people just trying to ignore how much their lives suck.

It's meant to be obnoxious. Have you ever tried to fake laugh before? It's not easy to sound natural, especially that loud.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover

What's wrong with the scene exactly? It establishes their personalities, shows them growing closer together, and is a rather believable exchange between two people just trying to ignore how much their lives suck.

---

Well for starters, their personalities suck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover

FFX is a good game.

Unlike FFVIII and IX, it didn't throw the majority of the party under a bus. It gave each character their own arc and conflict to overcome and they remained relevant from start to finish. It also avoids the common flaw of FF games - the flaw of "why the hell are they even in the party?" - by having a common objective from the start of the game.

---

Yes yes yes. All correct. I'm really enjoying my current playthrough of FFIX, but having played FFX earlier this year I can see the distinction between FFIX's and FFX's party make-up.

Quote:

---

The game does a fabulous job with atmosphere, establishing this bright and colorful world that is simultaneously also the darkest and most depressing world ever seen in an FF game.

---

Yes, the world is fabulous and some of the small details really bring it to life (so to speak). For instance, the city sunk under the Moonflow or Maechen's history lessons really add a lot of intrigue and tone. Coupled with the soundtrack, FFX is bliss at times.

Quote:

---

The soundtrack was fantastic and contains some of the best pieces ever heard in the series.

---

FFX is probably my favourite soundtrack in the series. It's magic.

Man, the thing is is that I simultaneously love and dislike FFX. I don't know what it is. The world is beautiful and immersive, but at the same time playing through the actual stages (ie: running in a straight line or solving awful sphere puzzles) is pure tedium.

The battle system is my favourite of the 'real' FF games (the first ten, FYI) but the game itself doesn't throw a lot of challenges at the player to really make it shine, outside of a few bosses.

The adventure is focused and relatively short, but the areas and random battles draaaaaag out so long to make what is effectively 20-25 hours of content into 40-50.

It all makes me think of the Mi'ihen Highroad area. I love the look, the style, the music, the chillin' atmosphere, running toward the horizon while people go about their business, etc, but the actual part of my brain that's parsing it as gameplay is just raging at how uninteresting it is. I'm bored as a player, but once I move on to the next section I think about how enjoyable it was (even though it wasn't).

I realize I've stopped making sense. It's just that I don't think it's possible for me to be more ambivalent toward a game and not be able to put coherent words to what I'm thinking.

I actually just finished a game of Darkest Hour where I led Communist China under Mao from the Long March to global domination so um yeah fair point.

More importantly FFX is the best FF and y'all're gonna have to deal with that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF

More importantly FFIX or FFVI is the best FF and y'all're gonna have to deal with that.

---

Thanks MILF. Totally agree with you. ;)

I cannot even fathom FFX being one of the best FFs. Talk about a difference in perspective! I just was so annoyed with it!

FFX is certainly not the best, but is top 5 in my opinion.
The only problem of course is the voice acting, however, if you were to examine their lines and read them without thinking about the voice, you could notice that their personalities are not all that different from older FF characters.

Lenna from FFV or even a little bit of Celes from FFVI could have easily become annoying characters with bad voice acting (like it happened for Yuna in some scenes). Think about the opera scene in FFVI. That cutscene right there very easily could have become bad with the wrong voice acting (similar to the laughter scene in X).

Some of the voice acting parts of the game are the only drawback for me. I enjoyed the gameplay a lot. I actually enjoyed filling up the Sphere Greed with many characters, and end up changing jobs for my characters (like having Auron kill birds).

I fell in love with the battle system of FFV and FFVI/IX too , so I can see why some people might not like it after coming from those games.

Oh well. This is still a great game. The golden years of Final Fantasy will always be FF 1-10.

I'm kind of middle of the road with X.

Things I liked:
-The story. I like how they threw the corruption in there and how there were religious aspects. Most of the people of Spira believed wholeheartedly in the teachings of Yevon to help them get rid of Sin and they found out that Yevon was the problem all along. I also like the talk with Yunalesca about false hope. It made me reflect on things. I like how they decided that they were going to risk everything by going a different route than the other summoners that just said "Oh, one of us becomes the new Sin. That sucks. Well okay."
-I like how summoners got a large role in this game. In games like VIII for example, everyone can pretty much summon. In tactics it's like, heeey I did some time as a black mage now I can summon mystical beasts, kay awesome. Oh so can the enemy party. Darn.
-I liked how the summons came to be. Especially at the end when you got to go and speak with them.
-The game play was not bad. I prefer the ATB gauge but for what it was it was good.
-The sphere grid I am torn on. I wish the characters were more customizable, but I also liked how they had their roles. Like if you sent Yuna down Auron's path and Auron down Yuna's, it would be a bit weird when her rod did more damage than his sword.
-The music was good.
-The scenery was pretty. I liked the calm lands a lot.
-Kimahri.
-The summons themselves.

Things I disliked:
-Voice acting. Especially Yuna. My goodness was it bad.
-The sphere grid. See above.
-The characters. To me, characters are a very important part of the game. I know a lot of people who disagree but I can easily forgive bad gameplay if I like the characters (not saying it had bad gameplay, just making a point) but I did not like the characters, other than Kimahri. Tidus was not my type of guy, Wakka was an annoying racist who said ya know to much, Rikku was annoying, Auron was a drunk dead guy. Lulu didn't bother me. With that being said, I do like how there was character development.
-Seymore. I cannot tell you how much I hate Seymore. I killed you. You are dead. Go away and leave me alone. I don't want to keep fighting you. I don't. Why do you keep looking weirder and weirder. (Also, my boyfriend insists he looks preggers.)
-When you find out about Tidus near the end. I don't even...
-Blitzball, what? I mean fine, for a mini game, but they make me play at one point. It's like mini-game rape. I say no, but they force me to do it.
-How uncommon Ability/Speed spheres are at the very beginning. Why do I have like 30 power and mana spheres and 1 ability and 2 speed sphere? Why?

Well I think thats the gist of it for me for now. It was still a good game and I would replay it. One of the best Final Fantasy games? Not by a long shot.

>The story is compuluted
>The character design is terribly bad (Worse than XII's... yeah, that bad)
>The voice acting is, for the most part, cringe worthy.
>The cloister of trials is pointless and obnoxious
>Tidus and Yuna tie for the most annoying protagonists in an FF game
>It spawned X-2
>Wakka sucks ya

BUT I still love this game
why?

~I love the combat system
~I love the music
~I love the setting
~I love the music
~I love auron as much as I love balthier
~I love the music
~And for other unexplainable reasons, I still get a lot of joy from playing this game.
~Did I mention the music?

Sure, I have a ton of problems with the game, but I still have fun playing it. That's what matters to me. If you hate it, I sure as hell don't blame you, but to each their own.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by maybee

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF

More importantly FFIX or FFVI is the best FF and y'all're gonna have to deal with that.

---

Thanks MILF. Totally agree with you. ;)

---

I enjoyed X at least twice as much as VI or IX, so I don't really have to deal with anything. IX was tedious and the graphics were gritty. Not many more faults with it, except the wtf bad guy. Ya just didn't like the environment very much either. I just know I would never pick it up and play it again it left that little of an effect on me.

I've stated before that VI may now be the most overrated game (not FF. Game.) in the history of videogames. VII took a back seat a long time ago. Even the fans of VII have realized its faults but the fans of VI acts like it has none. To act like VI is the epitomy of FF would make me give up on the series. Stereotype crazy bad guy with little to no backstory comes in and betrays his master (man that's original). Characters are given hardly any room to be customizable, basically making it as straight-lined of a growth chart in the essence of XIII (that's right XIII). Just because you don't physically spend your points in a crystarium in VI doesn't mean the narrow "you gain this level you get this skill" didn't exist. Many more faults too. The where do we go from here World of Ruin? Talk about writers block. "Ok so like just have everyone end up in different places and let the player waste 3 hours of his time re-collecting them so it feels like their doing something productive."

Feel whatever opinion you want. But people don't really have to deal with anything. I like what I like and a lot of people agree with me too. So I'll deal with your OPINIONS and you can deal with mine. But you don't have to agree.


EDIT: Haha just realized you changed what MILF actually said. Good one, but my points are still valid although without as much malicious intent. But don't I feel like an arse :roll2

Not many FF characters from FFVII on are really very great...they're either annoying, emo, or pissy.

I actually though the characters in FFX were slighlty more redeamble than their predecessors because at least most of them had a reason to be that way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shiny

Not many FF characters from FFVII on are really very great...they're either annoying, emo, or pissy.

---

Did you actually play FF 7 ? :roll2

I'm wondering if Shiny ever played any games before VII because there's plenty of annoyingness and pissiness there too.