I've noticed quite a few people dislike her as a character.
Why?
If you're on the opposite side of the fence - why do you like her as a character?
Overall:
Aerith as a character - discuss!
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I've noticed quite a few people dislike her as a character.
Why?
If you're on the opposite side of the fence - why do you like her as a character?
Overall:
Aerith as a character - discuss!
I dislike her in part because of her attitude. She kinda throws herself at Cloud for reminding her of Zack, and just fits a lot of gender stereotypes. She's also physically weak, making her not my favorite character to use in battle.
Lastly, on my first playthrough I just thought Tifa was the best person for Cloud. That seems to be what most of this debate comes down to: whether you like Tifa or Aerith for Cloud.
Never disliked her really, I just never found her character too interesting. I'm supposed to like her because of her happy-go-lucky demeanor and her heritage? She never did anything in the story that made me like her... besides well, casting Holy, but even that didn't make me like her as a character.
Also, as far as the whole Aerith vs Tifa debate, as far as character design goes, even when I was 12 (when I first picked up the game), I thought Aerith was prettier, so I refute any accusations of liking Tifa more because of her boobs.
This. Also she's kind of rude (see things like the gold saucer), although it isn't all the time, but I'm less forgiving of it because I dislike her overall.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lez
I also think that they try to shove her down your throat too much, because you're obviously supposed to like her to get more emotionally invested in the story, which I understand, it was just too much, I think.
And because I dislike her I just find it a nuisance that I'm stuck with this character and trying to keep her somewhat leveled because I'm picky about that stuff, and she just dies in the end.
I'm not fond of any of those three really. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
Give me the semi-abusive husband, Eco-Terrorist, and Rabbi's infested wild dog for for all of my love triangle needs thank you.
She's a weak character with some potential. The problem is she doesn't stick around long enough for anything to really develop.
She's there for the entire first disk, and one of the most prominent and focused on members.
They had ample time to make her a good character. In that short bit where Cid is introduced they built him up with more character and depth then the entire first disk was able to do with Aerith.
Time was not a factor here. :p
Different types of personalities and character traits take different amounts of time to fully develop. A naive and socially inept character like Aeris would have to spend a lot of time in a group dynamic before achieving any real growth.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoCracker
...Socially inept? What? XDQuote:
Originally Posted by chionosDifferent types of personalities and character traits take different amounts of time to fully develop. A naive and socially inept character like Aeris would have to spend a lot of time in a group dynamic before achieving any real growth.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoCracker
But regardless, she's there for most of the first disk. I would still argue that was more then enough time.
I have yet to see a character type that one cannot make interesting and enjoyable within a few hours of game time, at most. True, some are easier to do then others, but that's not an excuse. Especially since they kill her off and intend for it to be an emotional scene.
Now mind you, it was for a lot of people. But it just didn't do anything for me, as I had not yet really cared about Aerith. :p
Any character that can be made "interesting and enjoyable" within a few hours of game time is a shallow and likely stereotypical character, at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoCracker
However, my point isn't really that the time Aeris was on-screen wasn't enough time to develop the character, but given what we did see, had she stayed in the game I think the character would have evolved into something more enjoyable.
Characters that were interesting within a few hours that were much more then shallow an StereoTypical:Quote:
Originally Posted by chionosAny character that can be made "interesting and enjoyable" within a few hours of game time is a shallow and likely stereotypical character, at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoCracker
However, my point isn't really that the time Aeris was on-screen wasn't enough time to develop the character, but given what we did see, had she stayed in the game I think the character would have evolved into something more enjoyable.
Rand (Breath of Fire 2)
Cid (Final Fantasy VII)
Chaos (Xenosaga)
Fei (Xenogears)
Citan (Xenogears)
Melia (Xenoblade)
Bundban (Xenoblade)
Mao (Disgaea 3)
Naoto (Persona 4)
All of these character immidiately caught my interest, not even after an hour. And all of them still get a lot of development past that point, expanding upon their characters. I could actually come up with a lot more examples of characters that are both interesting in the first hour and not shallow, but I'll leave it at this. :p
Getting a person interesting in a character from the get go is a sign of good writing, it invests a person early. Mind you early interest is mostly pointless if it sees no pay off, which can happen. (To use another example of this from Xenogears, Rico is an example of a character starting off interesting and intriguing, but getting no pay off regardless.)
Edit: Well, Rand is a bit stereotypical thinking back on it, but hardly shallow. ;P
I kinda blogged about this on my dA/Tumblr, but I think it is worth sharing it here.
I am replaying FFVII and am really trying to pay attention to the dialogue.
I have to say, by paying closer attention this time, Aeris is spunkier and feistier than I remember as a teenager, and I love her even more because of it. She sounds like a hilarious, fun person I'd want to hang out with. Not perfect, not flawless, but fun and sincere and mischievous.
Stuff Aeris did/said so far in the game I'm playing:
1. Suggests Cloud dress as a woman to save Tifa
2. Tells dressmaker and gym dudes that Cloud wants to be cute
3. Peeks into the dressing room while Cloud is putting on the dress
4. Runs off to save Tifa
5. Says she's used to being in danger
6. Normally sells her flowers for 1 gil each, but when the lowlifes/lechers outside of Honey Bee Inn try to buy them, she charges them 300-500 gil each! I laughed so hard.
7. Tells Cloud she'll pay him with one date to be her bodyguard
8. Beats you to the entrance to Sector 6 after you sneak out of her house at midnight
9. Agrees to trade her life for Marlene's safety
10. Threatens to rip off Don Corneos' balls in exchange for information concerning the Sector 7 pillar incident
So far, I don't see any of that "sweet, innocent, naive" flower girl nonsense yet. Sure, she dresses a bit conservatively, and she chooses to be cheerful in tense situations, but she's a fireball. Not in the b!@#%y sort of way, though. She's strong, flirty, beautiful, street smart, and takes charge of situations to do what's right, no matter what the cost.
I <3 Aeris!
Still remember how helpful her Seal Evil Limit Break was against the Materia Keeper the first time I played the game. Couldn't have done it without!
As a character, well, I like still like her a lot. She never quite feels real, and it almost feels like she's a memory or a ghost.
I don't dislike her at all. She is not my number 1 good side character and number 1 main character without any reason. Aerith is a real angel. In a compliment way like someone would say "you are a sweetie" and all as well as metaphorical with all her characteristics - which is also a reason why I give her the "angel" compliment anyway. After all the characteristics and her nature are the reason why she acts how she acts.
No, it wasn't. Characters are not that one-dimensional. Aerith also had this side and the other side. It was not just a hint. Humans (and in that way Aerith is one) always show their different sides and try to cope with things by showing the fitting one.Quote:
But everything we did see, everything all of you like about Aeris, was just a hint of what she really was as a character.
That is because the Cloud and Aerith you remember do not exist, sorry. That is your interpretation of an actual thing. Actual things will not be interpret, you only make it wrong this way. Cloud is not psychologically too broken and so Aerith does not know it. Cloud is a completely normal guy who has some problems with his own person. That is absolutely normal. Doubts and shame, problems with the person itself are normal and Cloud is psychologically definitely not too broken. And Aerith helps him. Cloud does have a real relationship with Aerith even though he has to solve his own problems. That is also why he feels so much after her death.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyblade
So based on your logic, that is "not the reason why the Compilation sucks" because the characters are like they were always shown and even some added personal aspects are normal for a person because, as already mentioned, a human being is not one-dimensional.
Point taken Neo. I think my problem here is that an "interesting and enjoyable" character, to me, is a character that shows depth and development, and that can't happen in just a couple hours. Obviously, yes, characters can be immediately be so much fun that we want to invest in them and at the same time be characters that develop further, but knowing whether or not the character is going to be deep and not one-dimensional takes time.
I disagree with several of the characters that you mentioned Neo, but I think some of that is personal so I won't get into it. I will mention Cid from FFVII, despite my opinion being probably tantamount to blasphemy here at EoFF.
Cid is not nearly as deep a character as people make him out to be. The grouchy foul-mouthed man who's really a softy underneath is a centuries old literary trope. And he doesn't grow any. Don't get me wrong I like Cid, it just has nothing to do with an imaginary depth of character.
As far as Aeris goes, I did like the moments DrAssenov mentioned which showed Aeris to be kind of a tease, flirty. Those were moments that showed her sense of humor. But everything we did see, everything all of you like about Aeris, was just a hint of what she really was as a character. To be fair though, I don't think ANY of the FFVII characters got the development they needed. And obviously, if the full game doesn't provide enough space to develop a character, 1/3 of it certainly doesn't.
Cid I think is an interesting one to discuss, because I agree with you that it's a bit of a trope, and that he doesn't really grow as a character all that much, but I still feel he has quite a bit of depth, but that's a discussion for another place. :p
I guess it's easy to take a stab at Aerith. She just opens herself up to it, you know?
I actually really like Aerith as a character, and I think a lot of the backlash she received in recent years is due to her Flanderization in the Compilation. Have I mentioned I hate the Compilation?
In the game, she's got spunk and sass. She's not the delicate flower she was portrayed to be in the sequels, yet was still essentially an ordinary chick in many ways. That's one thing I like about her. She starts of the game with little to no fighting experience and adapts to the whole process very quickly.
I'm not really a fan of her character because as soon as she sees Cloud she automaticly flirts with him, only because he reminds her of her ex-boyfriend Zack. It wouldn't be so bad, if she wasn't so obsessed and fangirly over Cloud and is even acts really " girly and " giggly " when around him. It reminds me of Quistis's failed attempts at flirting over Squall in FF 8.
However it just seems really fake and annoying. It seems like she only likes Cloud because he seems like that 1st Solider class hero, that Zack was. However he's not. Before she dies, she desires to meet the real Cloud while on the Gold Saucer date, however while looking up to Cloud right before Sephiroth kills her she stills has that " Oh my hero Cloud is here to save me " ! look on her face. It's just really annoying.
Then there's the whole thing in the Gold Saucer after Barret has just told and vented out his past to everybody and she basically rubs in his face that she's having a great time and then she grabs Cloud's arm and goes and flirts with him again- because trying to get into that " 1st Solider's pants " is more important that what poor Barret has suffered and gone through and his guilt for Dyne's death.
To be honest she seemed really selfish and arrogant to me. Hence why I really dislike the girl.
Aeris was the stereotypical type of girl that a lot of guys tend to like. She is the one that if put in a school setting would probably be one of the more popular people in school and the one that a lot of guys would like to date (you know Square created her this way on purpose with those things in mind). And to top it all off she was given one of the more memorable tunes ever created for a video game as well.
That is probably why a lot of people liked her while at the same time a lot of people disliked her. And as a whole became one of the more popular characters in video game history.
They did that to a lot of characters in the Compilation, and it's one of the reasons it sucks so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laddy
Yep, I like her as a character. I just don't like her as a love interest, it never seemed to fit for me. I hate the people who go "OMG, Aeris is Cloud's twoo wove". The potential is there, but Cloud is way to psychologically broken to be part of any real romantic relationship, and Aeris knows it.Quote:
In the game, she's got spunk and sass. She's not the delicate flower she was portrayed to be in the sequels, yet was still essentially an ordinary chick in many ways. That's one thing I like about her. She starts of the game with little to no fighting experience and adapts to the whole process very quickly.
Plus, I always have to think of this. Aeris abandoned Cloud to save the world. Tifa abandoned the world to save Cloud. Aeris would never have given up the quest to spend time waiting on a guy in a coma.
I think Dr. Assenov has covered the majority of what I would say about her with his list.
When I was a kid and first played the game, I thought Aeris was a boring do-gooder scrub. Exactly the sort of thing an edgy kid hates. Hell yeah give me some of that Vincent badassness :aimcool:
The last couple times I've played the game, including my current one, I've come to appreciate her a lot more. She's a hell of a lot more forward and awesome than I used to appreciate, and she's actually snarky as hell when she wants to be. Also bear in mind that she's able to tell the Turks to smurf off for years and whilst they are constrained from doing her serious harm, there must be a million ways they might get a hold of her otherwise. If you smurf up the barrels in the church she turns around and stoves in the Shinra mook's faces, which is pretty hardcore.
Also saying she doesn't undergo development is just... u wot m8? She gets more development in her single disc than most of the rest of the cast get in the whole game. Compare how she acts in, say, Kalm with how she acts when everyone's sitting around the fire in Cosmo Canyon, and then again when you're in the Temple of the Ancients. She grows more serious and more introverted with every step of the journey, as she is become more aware of her nature and the role she believes she's destined for and, ultimately, as she can begin to physically feel the Lifestream and Planet.
I'm hesitant to portray it like this, but as an adult I think Aeris is totally awesome whilst Vincent is pretty much an emo waste of a party slot that should be filled by Big Bro or Mukki or Dio or Ester.
I didn't mind her. She was the happy-go-lucky one of the group... an interesting point there that she's kind of insensitive to Barrett when he's down about the Dyne stuff, but I would say that's also her strength in that she's that kind of person who was always trying to stay positive and cheer people up where possible. I think those can be useful people in a group - the morale raisers.
Cait Sith was good at that as well and kind of takes over that role I guess.
Although she's "that character" that so many FFs have shoved into them, I don't find her annoying like some of them can be (Selphie and Penelo for example). Can't quite put my finger on why, but I didn't find other iterations of The Happy Go Lucky Character (Eiko, Rikku) all that annoying either.
Raistlin's post summed up my thoughts pretty well. I actually liked her in Crisis Core. It's her relationship with Cloud that makes me dislike her. I also agree with DrAssenov in that she is not some innocent little fairy but is infact rather different to that description.
great gospel and/or planet protector completely trivialize any boss fight where they can be used along with overpowered ass fury brand. i admittedly keep her around as a crutch through all of disc 1 solely because I know I can't take her along for the entire ride.
Yeah that too, her limits are completely broken.