By which I mean the Nibelheim Flashback scene, why does everyone hate one of the most important scenes in the game? I just don't get it? :confused:
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By which I mean the Nibelheim Flashback scene, why does everyone hate one of the most important scenes in the game? I just don't get it? :confused:
Just because something's important doesn't mean it's not stupid or that it is good.
But it's one of the highlights of the game!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tifa's Boobs
I fail to see how its stupid and not good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tifa's Boobs
BURN.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tifa's Boobs
Then it comes down to a matter of opinion?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf KannoI fail to see how its stupid and not good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tifa's Boobs
The flashback scene is dull and quiet. And it's basically the equivalent of any FFX cutscene. Except you can't go make yourself a sandwich while it plays. You have to be an active participant for half an hour.
From my understanding, most people don't hate the scene itself on a first playthrough. They hate it on a replay because they know that part of the plot already, and yet they have to go through and actively play it. It is rather slow-paced.
I think the flashback scene is great, but as others have mentioned it gets a bit dull the nth time through the game.
This. There's nothing bad about it. But it's between an hour and half hour long, really slow paced and there isn't much to do but read text.Quote:
Originally Posted by VeloZer0
Why don't I remember this scene?! xD
oh i get it... it's hated by people that don't like to have a story interfere with their game... it's because they can't just hit Start and skip it or walk away and "make a sandwich"... instead, they have to manually advance the text which means endless mashing of Circle repeatedly 'till it's done, or you know *gasp* actually read the text...
Why are you so hateful about EVERYTHING?Quote:
Originally Posted by Elly
It just happens that some people find THAT PART OF THE GAME boring. In case you forgot, the entirety of Final Fantasy VII is reading smurfing text.
Ironically if you had taken the time to read and understand the text in this thread you would realize that most people aren't expressing issue with the reading of the text, only that it is significantly less interesting after being read multiple times. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Elly
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by VeloZer0
The first and second time around it's really amazing and seeing Sephiroth walk through those flames so casually with a nasty smirk on his face and then watching Cloud work out who he really is, is really deep and awesome to see.
ninth or eight time round ? We know this already. We know that Cloud is telling fibs in Kalm, we know that Cloud isn't real Cloud. So it's lost it's impact.
Plus it's a huge lie, so it's almost pointless.
He is the real Cloud. His consciousness is just a bit different since it changes based on experience and influences his behaviour. However, one consciousness, or call it "ego", one person. He is like a person whose consciousness is all about false memories while he still has the true memories. And he knows that something is wrong but Sephiroth and his own shame hold him back. And I love the Nibelheim scene.Quote:
Originally Posted by maybee
I had no idea everyone hated this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
How many are you talking about, really?
i'm sorry, i'm not trying to be hatefull, especially considering i love FFVII, look around the FFVII forums i have plenty of nice things to say and help others when they ask so i'm not hatefull about anything, youre just reading my posts with hate, just chill...
anyway in this particular case i'm being sarcastic because when i see threads about some of my favorite games, usually people have to complain about the existence of cutscenes, especially great games like FFX, FFXIII & Xenosaga... there's always someone that says "i hate those stopping me from playing the game just get on with it"... and someone will reply "i just make a sandwich when they're playing"... it totally blew my mind that that same complaint string could be leveled at FFVII, so i went into pure sarcasm mode... some may agree, some won't, but i'm far from being hatefull... if my words seem harsh or whatever, just read it in Ben Steins voice, that should make ya laugh...
I enjoyed the flashback scenes, it gives you a better knowledge of the story.
The thing elly, is that, sarcasm or not, your post clearly showed that you only skimmed the thread before posting. Your post was overly aggressive when it didnt need to be. Reading it in a sarcastic tone isnt funny because i dont believe you ever intended for it to be funny, and it isnt a rant with any humor present.
Also, id recommend not telling others to chill as it usually has the opposite effect.
ANYWAY: i never played ff7 so i dont have an opinion on this, but replaying rpgs where you cant skip decades worth of text or cutscenes has always bugged the crap out of me.
ELLY I THOUGHT YOUR POST WAS TASTEFUL and perceptive, maybe not to the people in this thread who did like the scene, but those who have expressed arbitrary and misguided criticisms of it elsewhere.
I don't play FFVII every week, so when I get back to Kalm, I'm always immersed the creepiness of the small town tragedy, the creativeness of those freaky things in the tanks, and just the overall interactive storytelling of FFVII, climbing through the reactor, talking to the townspeople, and of course, FFVII's efficient use of dialogue choices ^_^
ok ok, i get it, people hate replaying it (except maybe me)... but the original question didn't ask why people hated replaying it so i assumed first playthrough... i shouldn't have nitpicked points like that, it's as bad as someone only picking out only the few negative things out of all the positive from me and calling me "Hatefull about EVERYTHING"... so for that my sincere apology, i shall try to refrain from stooping to that level again, even if it seems like someone else was coming off hatefull and snarky first... but that's neither here nor there, 2 wrongs don't make a right...
yes Bolivar, i too don't replay it often even though it ranks in my top FF games, i believe that replaying too much kills the game, so i put some time between replays... after some time has past i may have forgotten a detail here or there thus making some points fresh again... personally i like cutscenes and never skip past or speed through the dialog, call it strange but it's just how i'm wired...
I'm ambivelent on the scene. I really liked it when I first saw it, getting to see Sephiroth kind of snap after absorbing so much horrible information in such a short time.
It's less cool, however, in hindsight when Sephiroth basically just emulates exactly what Jenova was going to do. They had a plot point that could have set Sephiroth up to be a really solid villain, but kind of dropped the ball. As such, knowing nothing that great comes from the scene, on later play throughs it didn't do anything for me.
That said it's not really bad at all. :p
^I think the recurring subtle ambiguity is what sets VII a part from a lot of the other stories in the series.
Listen.
Final Fantasy VII-Those Chosen By The Planet(Shinra mansion) - YouTube
Ominous isn't it. Foreboding.
Cloud is running down into the basement of the Shinra Mansion with this playing in the background. He comes upon the most legendary and powerful SOLDIER ever.
And he's lost his mind.
He's ranting and raving. He hates you, he hates the townspeople, he hates all of humanity.
And then he walks away.
And the music stops. There is only silence now as Sephiroth approaches the screen.
"Out of my way. I'm going to see my mother."
BAM
Final Fantasy VII OST - Those Chosen by the Planet ~ Sephiroth's Theme - YouTube
You know from the moment that music starts up that everything is screwed. Sure enough you emerge from the Mansion a few seconds later to find the whole place already burning to the ground.
It's called exquisite cinematic direction. FFVII was a master of it.
Lacan's flashbacks were better.
Tha what yu aw suching foa ease "TEDIOUS"Quote:
Originally Posted by Tifa's Boobs
Might have been better if they let you actually control Sephiroth.
I like the scene, for the most part. My first and second playthroughs I liked it, but as previously stated, I dislike watching the same storyline unfold while I actually have to do something. My biggest gripe was Those Chosen by the Planet. I had heard it before, in full, and when I heard it I was waiting(for about a half hour, mind you) for the ominous choir part to start in. Instead I was rewarded with the same repeated beat. That was the part that truly pissed me off.
It really would have been awesome if the flashback had contributed something other than information. Maybe some way to obtain Cloud's Power Wrist. He was wearing one, wasn't he? Or Sephiroth's Touph Ring... somehow.
Here's a good idea for the whole lack of control in battle. Cloud and Sephiroth could be separated post-bridge-fall. Then Cloud would continue along with Tifa and an MP (no control of MP) and battle their way to that cave where Sephiroth makes spiel. Of course, this all relies on Cloud's stats not being ridiculously differed from Seph's or the Nibel enemies can have their stats reduced during the entire flashback sequence.
I think the flashback would be presented as a kind of long, interactive cutscene if it was made as a video game today. It was an interesting thing to play through on my first time through the game, but it can be a bit monotonous if you know the plot already.
Because the game forces you into random battles even though you do nothing in them, making them pointless, which is a boring waste of time.
Yes, it's one of the most important portions of the game later on, but it's executed poorly because it's just not very fun, or interesting if it's your first playthrough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaCoachZ
This is exactly it for me too.Quote:
Originally Posted by VeloZer0
I think the flashback scene is great. Isn't it the first time you hear that scary-ass Sephiroth theme in the Nibelheim Mansion? That always gives me the jitters.
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKA
Basically, the game acts like it's giving you all of this freedom to do stuff, but you don't have it. They may as well make a flashback scene like any other from the game.
I though watching Sephiroth just own the monsters was cool the first time I played. And I probably only got into 2-3 fights, so it wasn't really that bad.
simple answer... haters are gonna hate, they'll find any reason to hate, while those that love it actually get it and enjoy it...
honestly though i'd love to just once get a hit in on that big arsed dragon before Sephiroth One Hit Kills it... i swear i remember doing it on my first playthrough and have never been able to do it again...
Haters are going to hate?
Everyone in this thread who doesn't like it gave a pretty good reasons. And it's not because we're too stupid to "get it."
wow, i never called anyone stupid, way to misread as usual... if you don't like that i have my own opinion just block me, really it's not that hard... here i'll make it easier, i'll block you first, so i don't have to see anymore of your hateful troll posts, no more feed for you, begone troll, you can't have the satisfaction of getting under my skin...
I had a few moments where I could attack the dragon. The moments I hate is when the dragon targets me first and I get killed. It's slightly made up for in the extremely rare moments when Sephiroth casts Revive. It makes me feel loved. :love: Although usually after I'm revived, I get killed by that rapey dragon again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elly
lol, ikr, at that time in the story they give the impression that Cloud was Sephy's biggest fanboy, 5 years ago... i'm almost surprised he didn't swoon upon revival...
This thread is getting unnecessarily heated. Settle down, chillens.
Ya know, people always say Sephiroth oneshots the dragon but I don't remember that ever happening with me. I remember it specifically taking two shots.
I don't think I can ever remember it taking two shots.
I think it's partly because you're not gaining in gameplay terms. Narratively they're fine the first time through, but they are pretty long (Most notably the one in Kalm) and combine something you've already done a bunch of times with no progress for your characters, no new items or experience and stuff, and it ends up feeling like you're wasting time.
Kalm is literally the only part of the entire game I don't relish and look forward to.
Two shots. Even if Seph casts a big spell.
But you can get Tifa's panties!
The guff comes from not being able to keep them. :exdee:
Yeah, others have repeatedly hit the nail on the head. First time around it's probably one of the best bits of the game. Especially first time playing a FF game and you're overawed by Sephiroth's damage. Sadly on subsequent playthroughs it takes an age and you don't get anything tangible from it.
I've played through the game multiple times, and I never really understood the Kalm flashback hate. No, you're not leveling up, but you are progressing through the story. The flashback has a lot of good exposition, the atmosphere is well done, and it sets the context for your adventure across the world. As someone who plays JRPGs mostly for the story, I don't mind it at all. It's not my favorite part of the game, but I don't dislike it at all, and wouldn't skip it even if I could -- just like I wouldn't skip the first few chapters of a book on a second reread.
exactly, that's how i feel... i play my games for story first, gameplay second... these flashbacks are an essential part of the story and should not be skipped or ignored, a lot of hard work went into them to just go "aw, skip it"...
if i worked hard on something i'd be a bit disheartened to see people making comments like "i got up to make a sandwich during the cutscene cause i couldn't skip it" or in this case "i taped the Circle Button down"... and the people at Square worked hard on those flashback scenes setting the mood of the story with music, lighting, sound effects, camera angels, everything painstakingly placed for us to enjoy a good cinematic story like they wanted to present to us...
"The real question is why would anyone play this game more than once."
~ Shorty, circa. 2013
HA! saw that in the FFX "OMG Really!?!?" thread... anyway the answer's simple... cause it's a masterpiece in gaming...
truth is that's totally subjective... some people may like great games like FF VII, X, & XIII while other like complete dreck like Call of Duty or Madden Franchises, of course the no-necks and Jarhead wannabe's will see it the other way saying their games are the best ever while RPGS are total crap... that line is further divided between Western and JRPG fans, and even further between those two groups, FF Vs DQ for example, and yet again, ad nausium...
point being the games that speak to you most personally are the ones that will stick with you and warrant repeated replays, while those that don't just sit on the shelf year after year...
I don't understand it. When I started being interested in RPGs, like 50 years ago, their main aspect was the story. The flashback is the story. No matter how many of it is confabulated, that is something which is an important aspect of Final Fantasy VII's story anyway.
How old are you? :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
That was a joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by GambletHow old are you? :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
I have no hate for the Kalm flashback or the "Cloud's memory jigsaw in the lifestream" sections of the game. When I was young, about 10 years old, I though the storyline was much more complex than other games at that time. But that's why I enjoyed re-watching them when the time came. Besides, the Kalm flashback takes Cloud from being the strongest character on your team to being a mere newcomer in SOLDIER. I found the fight with the Dragon amusing, he lasted 5 seconds.
Now you remind me of EDI from Mass Effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by SephirothThat was a joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by GambletHow old are you? :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
If the flashback weren't there, the great, tense scenes where Sephiroth/Jenova taunts Cloud on the way to the Crater for the first time wouldn't make any sense. There's a lot they have to set up for the punchline to make sense.
I've always thought that the final twist with Tifa and Cloud in the Lifestream was the best part of the game. After that point, the story just seems to coast toward the ending to me.
Back when FFVII was a brand new game, I had one of those bootleg memory cards that had an absurd amount of space on it. I had multiple saves right before scenes or segments that I enjoyed. The flashback segment is one that I particularly played through a lot because I enjoyed the atmosphere and direction of how events played out, even though what was shown wasn't what actually happened in terms of key details.
I will admit that I enjoyed it far more the first time I played through it, but I just love when games integrate gameplay aspects to prove a story based point they are trying to make. Many people forget that Sephiroth's build up was very slow and deliberate. He is casually mentioned, but the game makes sure to let you know that the dude is terrifyingly powerful. The trail of blood sequence in the Shinra HQ was cool and all, but actually seeing Sephiroth in a rain soaked battle easily dispatch a powerful enemy through the confines of the battle system really hammered the point home. Many games use this sort of storytelling/gameplay tactic, and I find that most of the time it is a great way to let an element in a game unfold.
The cinematography of the whole scene was astounding, as well. The camera angles in places like the Shinra Mansion and the Mako Reactor helped support the tone of the story at the time. They aren't subtle or whatever, but they work. The spiral decent into the basement of the Shinra Mansion where Sephiroth pieces his past and motivations together was downright spooky.
Long story short, this is a part of the game I look forward to every single time. I can see how it can be a chore for some, but I prefer to soak in the presentation the game was aiming for.
Yeah, I have to say, I've never hated the flashback scene. I think it's an incredibly well written and executed part of the game's story. And I do love story in games. Maybe if I was playing FFVII just for the gameplay, I'd get upset over such a lengthy stall, but why the heck would I do that? I mean, the gameplay's good, but it's an RPG, it's all to serve the story, I'd never boot the game up just to get into a couple random encounters. Maybe to fight a particular boss, but then that's what save files before boss encounters are for.
Why would people hate such a great part of the story?