This is kinda embarrassing but, back when FFX first came out, my mom wouldnt let me play it. She was listening to me play the game and heard them keep saying Sin over and over so she made me turn the game off because she said it was against our religion. Its kinda embarrasing, but thinking about the remaster now reminded me of that and I always wondered if that happened to anybody else. Well?
My dad played it before I did. x)
Haha nope, my family's not really religious but even if we were, that still sounds pretty extreme. But I was also raised into a family that didn't mind me playing Grand Theft Auto III at the age of eight, either...
Ironically, my foster parents never had a problem with me playing Final Fantasy games. But Resident Evil was totally off limits because, as my foster mom said, "Zombies are demons." Explaining otherwise to her was a futile effort.
Good thing she never saw me play a Final Fantasy game, especially FFX. Casting spells, summoning giant super powered beasts, "Sin" and "Fayth"? Questioning, much less overthrowing, religious order? Oh she would have flipped her lid.
No. I think my mother confiscated my South Park VHS once... then I took it back anyway and she realised that even if she confiscated it again I'd just watch the others at friends houses so she pretty much didn't really bother with anything after that.
Nope. I'm of the age where as long as it isn't rated M, my parents simply don't give a flying smurf. And even with M games, it isn't that they don't like me playing them (I turn 18 in less than a month), it's that they are afraid that my little brothers and sisters (who range from 7-15 years old) would come down and see what I was playing. Hence why I can play them elsewhere if I please.
As for FFX (or FFVI for that matter. Possibly XIII), maybe they would've had a problem with it if I was playing it ten years ago, but now it is a non-issue. Which means I play the X/X-2 remaster the day it comes out. Will be my first time playing FFX and my fifth main-series Final Fantasy game (after XIII, VI, VII, and IX).
No, I was pretty much allowed to play/watch whatever I wanted.
Funny you should saythat . My post above is just the short story of the whole thing. One day I had her watch me play the game to show her it wasn't so bad, and she saw me do those things you listed and she got really angry and made me give the game back to my friend. I actually had to sneak and play the game when my parents werent around. To this day my mom still doesnt like Final Fantasy anything. I remeber when I tried to buy the FF7: AC movie she said "I don't want that Final Fantasy stuff in my house." Its really embarrasing.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKA
No, and that's crazy. But it's all the more amusing because FFX actually did have some anti-religion themes going for it, but the simple fact that a monster was called "Sin" wasn't, by itself, one of them.
I bought a ps2 and jak 3 when I was 14 with my own money. My mother came in and saw me playing, and took the disk and broke it claiming it was too real looking and would make me confuse the real world and video games.
Then as retribution I took one of her dvds and snapped it in half. I then told her very calmly how it would confuse her because the characters were so realistic and it looked like real life. She got the point, I got grounded and had to replace the movie, and after that I played whatever I wanted as long as I bought it.
I was way more badass as a child than I am now. :(
I was allowed to play or watch whatever I wanted, nobody in family had beliefs that they felt the need to enforce onto others. I'd consider anybody who does act like that to be an ignorant person that's not all that worthy of respect.
A parent should support a child's interests while also teaching them that fiction doesn't represent the real world, not dictate what they can and cannot be interested in.
I'm going to support my child's interest to prostitute herself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberian
No, up until a child is a certain age (I'm thinking early teens), parents are perfectly within their right of telling their child what they can and can not do. It's called being a parent. And even after that time, children should still have boundaries. (e.g. curfews, you can't date people are abusive, don't do drugs).
My parents raised me on videogames and didn't care what I was playing.
One of my little sisters was playing Halo and calmly explaining the pros and cons of the different guns to her friends when she was five.
True, but it would be nice if they did a little research into the boundary, instead of banning stuff like Harry Potter because magic. For games, I figure they should trust the PEGI-ESRB ratings, but if they still have their reservations, they should check out the game themselves or read something about it on the net (preferably from a more objective source then conservapedia). Though that demands work, parenting as a whole demands work, but I think you should make time for reasonably deciding what your child should and shouldn't watch/play/read, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tifa's BoobsI'm going to support my child's interest to prostitute herself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberian
No, up until a child is a certain age (I'm thinking early teens), parents are perfectly within their right of telling their child what they can and can not do. It's called being a parent. And even after that time, children should still have boundaries. (e.g. curfews, you can't date people are abusive, don't do drugs).
On topic. My parents never had a problem with that, they're both Catholic, mind you. Sometimes they watched me play and they would not see harm in it, though they though X was kinda stupid (I can now see why :D). I did, however, once almost have a ban on the Pokemon anime, because I was jus obsessing with it, throwing tantrums over not being able to watch an episode and whatnot. That near ban was probably for the best. If I hadn't taken a minute to think about my "addiction" I would probably have more problems with addictions to shows/games later on in life.
Same here. *brofist*Quote:
Originally Posted by Pike
It's a video game. I mean I don't have a problem with my son playing/watching whatever and I'm actually going to use it as a learning opportunity. Why this is fiction, why its in the game/movie/show, why it isn't okay to do some of this stuff in real life, what morals you can take from some of it (FFX does have a good enough moral).
"smurf organized religion?"Quote:
Originally Posted by shion
No, don't just blindly believe in something. I'm Catholic, but that doesn't mean I agree with everything the Catholic Church does just because it's Catholic. Sure I believe a lot of it (I am Catholic) but at a certain point people need to be able to question things and think for themselves. One of the things pointed out a few times in game when Tidus asks why things are a certain way, a few people tell him they haven't thought about it. It just is. I think the game teaches you to think and wonder and question things, which is a good lesson in my opinion.
As another Catholic, I'll agree (I honestly can't believe there's as many as two of us here!) :) It was just a joke. I think the game has worse flaws, but it still was not subtle about being anti-organized religion. It was kind of disrespectful in that regard. At one point I was under the impression that they tried, through Tidus, to push the idea that the ideas of sacrifice and atonement are inherently bad. Thankfully, this is Yuna's story, and in the end, she gets to find the balance between sacrifice/devotion and reason. But the church itself is still irredeemably evil here. I kind of feel many other games (FFTactics, Xenogears) handled it way better, showing actually well-meaning individuals within their organized religions who keep believing in their respectove denominations till the end, with some important people being really corrupt, which is sadly often the case in real life, but that actually makes those games more fascinating, IMO, since just making the religion evil seems cheap.Quote:
Originally Posted by shion
Anyway, I get where you're coming from, but it would have been better without the evil space whale and that the evil church says it's all our fault :D
We should form a club. Three happy Catholics. We could review games. It'd be awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by The White Wizard of FynnAs another Catholic, I'll agree (I honestly can't believe there's as many as two of us here!) :) It was just a joke. I think the game has worse flaws, but it still was not subtle about being anti-organized religion. It was kind of disrespectful in that regard. At one point I was under the impression that they tried, through Tidus, to push the idea that the ideas of sacrifice and atonement are inherently bad. Thankfully, this is Yuna's story, and in the end, she gets to find the balance between sacrifice/devotion and reason. But the church itself is still irredeemably evil here. I kind of feel many other games (FFTactics, Xenogears) handled it way better, showing actually well-meaning individuals within their organized religions who keep believing in their respectove denominations till the end, with some important people being really corrupt, which is sadly often the case in real life, but that actually makes those games more fascinating, IMO, since just making the religion evil seems cheap.Quote:
Originally Posted by shion
Anyway, I get where you're coming from, but it would have been better without the evil space whale and that the evil church says it's all our fault :D
Yeah, I agree that it was way too heavy handed with it. Especially compared to some of the other games in the series (like FFVII, and how well it demonstrated that an evil, life-draining corporation is not necessarily full of evil people). With the exception of Maester Ronso (lifetime: 2 minutes) and Shelinda (working from memory here, but I think that's her name), no one in the game connected with Yevon is anything but a hypocritical, backstabbing idiot.
While the game does a pretty good job of portraying religious traits, like faith and sacrifice and devotion and stuff, and even a good job of dealing with brainwashed devotion versus faith in ideals or beliefs (Wakka versus Yuna), religion itself gets shafted.
But this wasn't my parents pointing this out to me, this was my own assessment of the game while playing it. All my mom pointed out was that Auron doesn't get nearly enough screen time (which I agree with).
I really wasn't trying to comment on the aspects of the game. x)
Just saying that a parent is fully within their right to tell their child what they can and can't do, as that's what it means to be a parent.
I didn't mean to offend anybody, and I hope I didn't. I just meant that I could easily let my son play the game and explain to him that he should question things and use his brain instead of blindly following anything really. It's also easy to explain to him that this is a game, it's exaggerating for effect (not necessarily effectively) and that it doesn't mean everyting the Church does is wrong. At the end of the day, Final Fantasy X is fiction and we can learn certain things from it, but it's not reality. It doesn't portray how organized religion is exactly. And I would expect him to question and wonder about that too. Heck I expect him to question and wonder about me saying all of this.
Anyways, yes, Final Fantasy X does take it a bit far with the whole everything the Church/Yevon does is wrong and hypocritical, but no, even as religious as I am, I have no problem letting him play it because he can take a lesson from it and it's also just an enjoyable game. If I can teach him about fiction vs reality then I feel pretty safe about letting him play games/movies/tv shows that aren't the most child friendly. I would actually rather he be exposed to it while I'm around so I can discuss things with him, explain why certain things portrayed aren't acceptable in real life or even realistic, and answer his questions should he have them.
Agreed. As a parent, your job is to supervise and teach (among tons of other things), and games are great tools to do that. And FFX does actually have a lot of utility in this regard, and can be overanalyzed really easily (which is silly normally, but can be a good teaching tool, since it uses familiar points to address new topics).Quote:
Originally Posted by shion
That said, I frankly don't mind the parent banning FFX for these reasons. I'm rather glad, in point of fact. True, I'd much rather the parent learn about the material, and understand what it is and how it uses the terms and symbols, and what the game teaches, than just a surface interpretation. But I'm glad that the parent was still paying attention enough to forbid something that she found offensive or inappropriate for her child.
Would I ban the game on this point? No. Sin is the antagonist of the game. Teaching "Sin equals bad" does not exactly go against my beliefs. But I can understand hearing it a lot and the reaction. It's a parent that cares. And however misguided I think they may have been, I'm glad they care, and that they made the decision according to their ideals.
And you know what? The kids grow up one day. FFfreak1 is now grown, and can choose to enjoy the game and understand it on his own terms. No harm done.
And when he has his own kids and sees him playing FFXXIII, he can take it away from him and play it himself (to make sure it's ok for kids, of course) and have some great bonding and learning experiences with his own kids.
If I'd have done that to my parents, I'd have never played another video game again, because I wouldn't have hands left to play them with, if I was even still breathing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypoallergenic Cactuar
Now that you've said it, it has too happen. That's too awesome an idea to waste.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyblade
I agree with to a certain extent. It is nice to see some parents care enough to stop the children for doing something they consider harmful. But, IMO, if they do it on a whim, without giving it much insight, essentialy just telling them "no because no", that's not a very nice lesson. It's hard to build trust on something like that.
I remember dad wouldn't let me play devil may cry cause he accused me of witchcraft once
This is true, but it is not the entire story.Quote:
Originally Posted by The White Wizard of FynnNow that you've said it, it has too happen. That's too awesome an idea to waste.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyblade
I agree with to a certain extent. It is nice to see some parents care enough to stop the children for doing something they consider harmful. But, IMO, if they do it on a whim, without giving it much insight, essentialy just telling them "no because no", that's not a very nice lesson. It's hard to build trust on something like that.
She didn't say "no because no". She disagreed with the prominent use of a religious term. It was the overabundance of the word Sin, and ffFreak1 knew that. There was a reason, and it was explained.
Words have power. Imagery has power. Why do you think "Sin" was chosen as the beast's name? It was a use and a manipulation of terms we are already familiar with. It was meant to evoke the word's meaning, in addition to its meaning in Spira. To lend additional weight to the themes and meaning of Sin.
I certainly have seen people rebel against such usages before. Take the gamers who returned Bioshock Infinite because of the game's misuse of baptism. An extremely important sacrament twisted to a very different nature by that game, and it was done intentionally. I really don't see how the objection is any different. I may not make such an objection myself, but I can certainly understand it.
Could the reasoning have been explained better? Sure. Was it a missed opportunity for education and expansion, both on the part of the gamer and the parent? Absolutely. But do we know how much time ffFreak1's mom had to look deeper into it? Do we know if she could explain her reasoning and the meaning behind it clearly enough to her child (or that it wouldn't simply come across as a lecture in addition to a punishment)? Do we even know the full nature of her objection?
This may not have been an ideal handling of the situation, but I still think it's an overall positive one. I'd prefer overly cautious and watchful parents to those who don't think it's their job to raise their kids.
Also, shion expressed interest too, so now we just need to start by picking a game.
Can we do Final Fantasy IX :excited:
Sure, why not? But you're probably gonna have to be the head of this project, since you play the game on a yearly basis :DQuote:
Originally Posted by shion
Skyblade, I think you pretty much nailed it. Also, I need to try Bioshock Infinite sometime, once I have a computer that can run it.
This would make for a very interesting review, as we'd all have very different perspectives then. Shion is a regular fan, The White Wizard played it long ago, and I'll have to get off my bum and actually finish the thing, so I'll have a very fresh look.Quote:
Originally Posted by The White Wizard of FynnSure, why not? But you're probably gonna have to be the head of this project, since you play the game on a yearly basis :DQuote:
Originally Posted by shion
Skyblade, I think you pretty much nailed it. Also, I need to try Bioshock Infinite sometime, once I have a computer that can run it.
Yeah, I never finished IX. Not that I hated it (and I actually quite enjoyed it when it finally came to the PSP and stopped making my eyes bleed). But just some minor stuff always kept it from being the top of my "to play" list, so I never got around to it.
We'd also have to come up with a structure/format for it. Three independent reviews would hardly be an ideal use of the setup. Perhaps we each write up our impressions, pass them among each other, and then do point/counterpoint for the review itself?
And perhaps we should then start with one we're all more familiar with, so we can pound out details and work things over a bit. FFX would make an obvious solid choice, but, with the HD remix about to come out, it would probably make sense to wait on that one a bit, since we could go over the international content as well. But, while we figure out what we're doing, I'll work on finishing IX.
And I have driven this well and truly off topic. Although I'm not sure we have much more to discuss on topic. So... Hmm. Take it to PMs, or try to find a place for a thread on it so we can all actually talk together (since I don't think three way PMs really work)?
@Tifa: Within reasons, obviously. I meant more along the lines of supporting what they are interested in such as cultivating their interest in reading, writing, being creative in some way, etc. There is a huge difference between supporting your childs interest in video games compared to supporting their interest in selling their bodies. Refusing to allow them to play a video game because they ignorantly assume that it is against their religion or because it is 'evil' isn't what a parent should do in this situation.
My folks got me FFX as a gift for my 20th birthday, so it would've been mighty odd if they'd tried to police it on moral grounds. Especially since they're atheists.
Besides, the entire point of Yuna's journey is to bring peace to the world by defeating Sin for ever - I'd have thought that most religions would be entirely ok with that sort of thing.
Not when it draws parallels between here and Jesus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big D
No, but that's because my parents were never that extreme. The only game I wasn't allowed to play was Gran Theft Auto and that had nothing to do with religion.
You should probably run away from home. It doesn't sound like you live in a healthy household.Quote:
Originally Posted by FFfreak1
No, but I was over 18 when X was released any how. I didn't come from a spiritual extreme family anyhow though. My mom read Tarot and read books on Buddha, my older sister is a witch, and my father always said the 10 commandments are a good guide to common sense, but to use your own mind when deciding what to believe or not to believe, pretty much. If anything they would be more of the type to worry about me playing that old school Noah's Arc NES video game (which I did), for fear of being brainwashed early on.