Superhero Movies: What is it about the number 3?

While talking to... I think Psychotic, I noticed a funny coincidence with a couple of superhero movie franchises when it comes to their third installment.

The number three stinks.

For starters, Richard Donner's Superman and Superman II were considered to be great films and then Superman III was where it all went down the toilet and ultimately led us to Superman IV.

Tim Burton's Batman and Batman Returns were critically successful and then we got Batman Forever which is where people note the movie franchise took a turn for the worse once again leaving us to the fourth installment which shall live forever in infamy.

Sam Rami's Spider-Man and Spider-Man 2 were also very successful leading us to Spider-Man 3 which was considered god awful and eventually caused an entire reboot to happen.

While hardcore X-Men comic book fans would probably tell you all the movies were crap, after you look past the changes the first two X-Men movies weren't all that bad. But it was X-Men: The Last Stand which is considered the worst and being followed up by the Wolverine spin-off didn't help.

Even The Dark Knight Rises suffers from, "Not as good as the first two" when it's brought up in conversation and now Iron Man 3 seems to be suffering from the curse of the number three with the general fan reaction to that movie. Why is that?

Well, in the case of Superman they tried to turn it into a comedy and that went about as well as you'd expect. With Batman they changed directors and wanted a more family friendly approach to the movie series after Batman Returns. Spider-Man suffered from trying to please too many people at once: Sam Rami wanted Sandman, the studio pushed for Venom and fans wanted to see Harry take over the mantle of the Green Goblin so it suffered for it.

X-Men also had a change of director by the time the third one came around and I think TDKR suffers from the insane expectations that it can never meet because of the first two films. Iron Man 3 was basically trying to be The Dark Knight Rises. It was when these films steered away from what worked or just had a change thrown on them or too much stuff going on or not being able to live up to expectations that caused things to go phew.

What's the point of this thread? I don't know. I just wanted a fun superhero movie thread so talk about superhero movies, the number 3 and funny coincidences you may have found.

Doesn't a third movie pretty much always suck compared to the first two? Excluding movies that were always intended to be trilogies, like Lord of the Rings.

Spiderman 3 is still better than Spiderman 2.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shlup

Doesn't a third movie pretty much always suck compared to the first two? Excluding movies that were always intended to be trilogies, like Lord of the Rings.

---

Can't say. I know Pirates were always planned to be a trilogy and 2 and 3 didn't work out as well as they hoped they would.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinx

Spiderman 3 is still better than Spiderman 2.

---

Iron Man 3 was rip-out-your-own-tongue awful, but so was Iron Man 2 so not sure how well that measures in here. Also saying Bat Man 3 is better than Bat Man 2 is implying that either movie was good.

Yeah but was Pirates always really planned out as a trilogy, or were they just like "Here's a movie idea! Let's make this one and then keep making them!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shlup

Yeah but was Pirates always really planned out as a trilogy, or were they just like "Here's a movie idea! Let's make this one and then keep making them!"

---

I think it was always planned as a trilogy, or at least to have sequels. The title of the first one has the 'Curse of the Black Pearl' added on.

3 seems to be a bad number for super hero movies in general. I will say that Iron man 3 is actually my favorite of those movies. Granted, I've never read the comics and so the whole thing with everyone complaining about how the Mandarin (or whatever his name was) was portrayed didn't mean much to me. The friends I saw it with theorize that I like this movie best just because I'm not a huge fan of Tony Stark/Iron Man in general and I was able to see him get the trout kicked out of him consistently throughout the movie.

The only other third super hero movie I've seen is Spiderman 3. I actually kind of like the Sandman's portrayal in the movie. Sure the rest of the movie was silly and kind of bad at times, but it was still fun for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scotty_ffgamer

3 seems to be a bad number for super hero movies in general. I will say that Iron man 3 is actually my favorite of those movies. Granted, I've never read the comics and so the whole thing with everyone complaining about how the Mandarin (or whatever his name was) was portrayed didn't mean much to me. The friends I saw it with theorize that I like this movie best just because I'm not a huge fan of Tony Stark/Iron Man in general and I was able to see him get the trout kicked out of him consistently throughout the movie.

The only other third super hero movie I've seen is Spiderman 3. I actually kind of like the Sandman's portrayal in the movie. Sure the rest of the movie was silly and kind of bad at times, but it was still fun for me.

---

I thought Iron Man 3 was good personally, I only add it on to the list because of overall fan reaction to the movie. It took me a bit to even remember what Iron Man 2 was about. I'm not familiar with the comics (though I did watch the old cartoon show) either so the thing with the Mandarin didn't bother me, I thought it was a good twist. I did say to myself, "Oh, that's going to piss a lot of people off" when I saw it (and it did) but I still liked it.

Spider-Man 3 probably would have been a lot better had they just gone with Sandman and hold off on the others. No one got any half decent character development because of that. It didn't help that Sam Rami to my knowledge didn't like Venom and it shows with his portrayal. Worst casting choice ever for Eddie Brock and they basically made him Carnage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shlup

Doesn't a third movie pretty much always suck compared to the first two? Excluding movies that were always intended to be trilogies, like Lord of the Rings.

---

I think both Fellowship and Two Towers were better films that Return of the King.

The only final installment of a trilogy I ever thought was as good or better than the ones preceding it was Toy Story 3 which was an epic masterpiece of filmmaking.

Also, I hate carnage haha.

Anyways, I agree with you on the Sandman stuff. Sam Raimi wanted nothing to do with Venom, but Venom's a fan favorite and he was forced into including it. That's why the portrayal sucks, probably.

However, Spiderman 3 did give us a lovely scene with Bruce Campbell, so there's that.

I second Toy Story 3 as a masterpiece.

Bruce Campbell was in all three of them. He's been with Sam Raimi since Evil Dead. Xena and Joxer made cameos in the first movie too, I think Joxer appeared in the second as well and I suck for forgetting there are two I's in Raimi.

I'm just going to throw it out there that Superman 2 wasn't all that good until the Richard Donner cut. And even that feels a little bit like more of a glimpse at what it could have been than the movie we actually could have had. Definitely recommend watching it though for anyone who hasn't. It's hard to see the original version as anything other than laughably bad after.

Anyway, I find, more often than not, that bad 3rd movies seem to be the result of either the original guys leaving, or producer meddling. You see both with the Superman movies, Bryan Singer leaving with X-Men, producers forcing Venom on Raimi in Spider-Man 3, and Tim Burton leaving Batman (though I don't actually like his movies either, they're better than Forever and Batman & Robin).

I did like The Dark Knight Rises quite a bit though, and Iron Man 3, while not as good as the others and perhaps a bit too out there in some spots, wasn't a bad movie, and The Mandarin was freaking brilliant.

The Dark Knight Returns was great. Iron Man 3 was decent. All other third superhero movies blowed.

If Avengers 3 features Thanos and is the culmination of this entire Marvel film arc then it better be good.

I know some people like Batman Forever....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover

I know some people like Batman Forever....

---

Yep. I'm one of them.

Also, I heard that Dark Knight Rises was horrible more because of major, vehement disagreements between the producers and directors (to the point where Nolan didn't even want to make the movie), rather than a simple case of it being a third installment.

Wait why are people hating on Iron Man 3 again? That movie was great. All three Iron Man flicks were great (although I think the first was probably the best).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Del Murder

The Dark Knight Returns was great. Iron Man 3 was decent. All other third superhero movies blowed.

If Avengers 3 features Thanos and is the culmination of this entire Marvel film arc then it better be good.

---

I thought Thanos was going to be in Avengers 2?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover

I know some people like Batman Forever....

---

Yes, I'm one of them. But objectively I can see why some didn't very much care for it and it was still a game changer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skyblade

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover

I know some people like Batman Forever....

---

Also, I heard that Dark Knight Rises was horrible more because of major, vehement disagreements between the producers and directors (to the point where Nolan didn't even want to make the movie), rather than a simple case of it being a third installment.

---

That's interesting. First time I heard of that. I always did feel like there was some... phoning it in, for lack of a better phrase? Even some of the scenes when I saw them for the first time in trailers didn't feel like they were finished editing...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pike

Wait why are people hating on Iron Man 3 again? That movie was great. All three Iron Man flicks were great (although I think the first was probably the best).

---

I think it was mostly because of the Mandarin, the Iron Patriot (not 100# sure on that one), some obvious plot holes and the fact the plot copied The Incredibles. Don't think they very much cared for the ending either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ToriJ

I thought Thanos was going to be in Avengers 2?

---

Ultron. Thanos will be in the third one.

Also, about the Incredibles plot, I guess I can see how some could see similarities between a man abandoning his family to relive the glory of his hero days and having to be rescued by said family to (SPOILER)Tony Stark venturing off solo to take on the Mandarin and subsequently having to be rescued by his friend (and girlfriend at the end). Oh wait, I guess it was because that guy (SPOILER)at the beginning that Tony Stark snubbed ended up being the bad guy just like Buddy who worshiped Mr. Incredible ended up as Syndrome... wait... really..? That's the best comparison people could make. One aspect of the entire movie that seems vaguely familiar renders the whole plot the same as the Incredibles? I guess that's not the point, people were just disappointed with the main villain as a whole since the commercials heavily promoted the presence of the Mandarin. But, come on. Weren't the Ten Rings terrorist cell mentioned in the first Iron Man? Did people really expect to see actual rings with magical powers? Really?

If you go in not expecting anything, any movie can be good. Batman Forever... good. Batman and Robin... not so much. Superman III... I was a kid when I watched this so I don't recall my original opinion, but looking at it later, it's far too campy. AoD, while cheesy, campy, and lacking more than a C-note's-worth of production value, was pretty funny.

Spiderman 3, while I was disappointed in Spiderman 2 enough to think this last sequel couldn't be any worse, I just found myself wishing they had gone with just one villain. I will also never forgive casting Eric Foreman as Venom. I think he would have been interesting as Carnage though. Ah, who knows?

I like Iron Man 3, I liked DKR, AWE was better than DMC (... that's At World's End and Dead Man's Chest), The Last Stand was disappointing, I did not like Toy Story 3... blah blah blah

I don't care what any of you say, Watchmen 3 was smurfing amazing.

The first one gets an origin story to soak up lots of screentime and give action thrills. The second one has the established mythology over with and moves on to a bigger villain and more developed love interest. All that's left for 3 is a crisis of conscious for the hero to overcome, so we have to sit through an hour of them not wanting to be a superhero anymore while some woman nags at them about something. It's just not an interesting formula. The poor women in these movies. We need a good, solid female superhero film already.

I see the Amazing Spider-Man going this exact route. (SPOILER)Gwen Stacey will most likely die as she does in the comics and Mary Jane will take her place for the third movie while Spider-Man mopes for most of it, wondering if he does more good than bad if it harms those closest to him.

If they ever made a Watchmen 3, it would absolutely have to be a prequel about the Minutemen. The pirate-themed animated Watchmen movie they released raped me to tears.