Pro Wrestling Discussion

Brought on by the WWE Network thread. I was curious to see how many people here are fans of Pro Wrestling. I know at least a couple of you are, and only two of you are members I invited to the forum.

I was introduced to Pro Wrestling through WWF War Zone that my brother played, but didn't watch any actual footage until the fall of 98 on a Saturday afternoon when they were playing WCW Worldwide and WWF Shotgun back to back. Didn't start watching full time until January of 99 and been a fan ever since. We didn't have cable (still don't) so the only time I got to watch was the recap shows until WWE put on a show Thursday night on UPN and I finally had a full 2 hour show I could watch every week. And with my favorite color being blue that quickly became my favorite wrestling program on TV.

The first wrestlers to become my favorite, though I admit with some of them it had more to do with personality and gimmick than wrestling ability, were The Undertaker, Kane, Austin, Rock, Mankind, Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart and Sting. Since then that list has expanded to include more names than I can possibly count. I enjoyed WWE, WCW, ECW, some old NWA stuff and TNA back when it was still good. Thanks to Botchmun I also got to see some pretty awesome Japanese matches.

Discuss.

I was really into the WWF back in the late 80s/early 90s. I loved Macho Man, Bret Hart, and was a total Hulkamaniac. I still remember those epic battles for the Intercontinental title between Mr. Perfect/Bret Hart/British Bulldog. Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, Survivor Series, the oft overlooked Tuesday in Texas (This Tuesday, in Texas...), I watched them all. I then grew up a bit and lost interest. It was a down point for the industry in general (Psycho Sid anyone?).

I got back into it in the late 90s due to the Attitude Era and the Monday Night Wars. Man, that was a golden age of television. I was glued to Raw, Nitro, and Smackdown every single night. I would watch the first hour of Nitro and tape the rest, then switch over to Raw. I'd read Mr. Tito's Phat Daily Column which had a lot of the behind the scenes news and opinions. My favorites were The Rock, Steve Austin, Chris Jericho, Goldberg (only during The Streak), Mankind, Kurt Angle, Ken Shamrock, and Shawn Michales after he came back. The competition between WCW and WWF was insane. I had the games too. WWF Attitude (sucked), WCW Revenge (awesome), and WWF No Mercy (best wrestling game ever, it's Revenge with a better cast). I loved The Corporation ('...and The Rock, damn sure plans, on laying the smackdown, on your candy ass, with the most electrifying move, in sports entertainment today...the corporate elbow!') and also when DX made fun of The Nation. Loved that one Raw where Undertaker and Kane would randomly come in during matches and chokeslam everybody. Glorious times.

Then WCW made stupid management decisions and went under and WWF bought them. At first it was awesome as expected and resulted in a lot of dream matches, but eventually the lack of a fierce competitor allowed WWF to relax and not push the envelope as much as they used to. The current superstars aren't as good as Austin, Rock, Mankind, etc. in their heyday, and Raw became a lot less unpredictable (titles could change hands at any moment back in the MNW). Sometimes I flip to it for a few minutes to see what's going on, but it's not enough to hold my interest.

Not a bad way to go considering WCW had a better undercard while WWF had better Main Events that didn't always end in double DQs or no contests because everyone kept abusing their creative control clauses because nobody wanted to job to anyone else.

99 was a depressing year for WCW.

I loved Mick Foley in all his versions. Mankind, Cactus Jack, Dude Love and a few times just as Mick Foley.

I also loved reading his books. One of my favorite bits was him describing The Peoples Elbow. "The Peoples Elbow may be the single most ridiculous thing I have ever seen in any form of entertainment. And the people love it." XD

But yeah, favorites go to The Rock, Mankind, and Jericho.

I was big into WWF in the late 80's/early 90's. I obviously favoured the British Bulldog with him being a local boy. My highlight was attending Summerslam 92' at Wembley Arena in London.

Legion of Doom driving to the ring on Harley Davidsons, Shaun Michaels v Rick Martel, Macho Man v Ultimate Warrior and finally... British Bulldog beating Bret Hart in the final match for the Intercontinental title.

As a ten-year-old, I'd never been that excited in my life.

Also, I hate to say how much I love this match due to knowing what really went on, but Mankind Vs. Undertaker in a Hell in the Cell match is one of my all time favorites.

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Originally Posted by NeoCracker

I loved Mick Foley in all his versions. Mankind, Cactus Jack, Dude Love and a few times just as Mick Foley.

I also loved reading his books. One of my favorite bits was him describing The Peoples Elbow. "The Peoples Elbow may be the single most ridiculous thing I have ever seen in any form of entertainment. And the people love it." XD

But yeah, favorites go to The Rock, Mankind, and Jericho.

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Love Mick Foley. He rocks all three characters whenever he plays them. I usually cycle through which personality I enjoy more, though I feel Dude Love is an underrated persona that doesn't get as much attention as his more popular characters in Mankind and Cactus Jack. I enjoyed a book about him called 'Behind the Mankind Mask' though never read any of his books *ashamed*

That People's Elbow description is so spot on it hurts.

Only live show I got to attend was one at the Sprint Center on the Road to WrestleMania back in 2010. A tape show of ECW and a live RAW. The one where Chris Jericho beat on Ric Flair and stomped on his watch. It was great finally seeing Undertaker live.

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Originally Posted by NeoCracker

Also, I hate to say how much I love this match due to knowing what really went on, but Mankind Vs. Undertaker in a Hell in the Cell match is one of my all time favorites.

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It really is. I actually like it even more just knowing what really went on and how much those two left in the ring. They put it all out there and made one of the most spectacular matches in history. That was one of the first PPV's I actually got and it did not disappoint.

I love that they were willing to put so much on the line, especially Foley after that nasty fall he took through the cage, showing just how devoted to the craft they were.

But the thing is the toll that it took on Foley in the long run wasn't worth it. Pretty much the majority of the physical problems he currently had can be linked back to that. He himself describes that moment as the time his Carrier started to end.

It's kind of the same reason that as much as I love the Pile driver as a finisher, I'm glad they banned it a while back considered how much damage a botched pile driver can actually do to a person.

No doubt my friend. But the way I see it, Mick was the sort of guy that if it wasn't getting hurt in that match, it could have easily been another match. But if there had to be a climax for that mans career, then my god what a peak that was.

You certainly never want to see them hurt and have to quit do to injuries, but it happened and nothing will change that, so I've got to respect what the man did after taking such a bad fall through the cage.

For the longest time I actually thought it was the fall through the Announcement table was botched, not the one through the cage. :p

But I disagree that in regards to that match, it was already epic before the fall through the cage. No way that one would have been just another match. :p

But yeah, Foley is hard core as smurf. :p

A guy wrestles in barbwire and with C4 in Japan and what gets him?

A goddamn cage!

On second thought I think the cage would hurt more than the barbwire. Never mind.

Speficically, for those who want to know the moment/What we're talking about, this is the smurf up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U09oXyiAkOc

The cage wasn't suppose to give, so he took that fall completely unprepared.

Just rewatched the DX reunion for the 1000th episode of Raw. So awesome.

I got into WCW Nitro back at its apex in the late '90s. Larger-than-life characters, some creative matches and stunts, and a healthy dose of self-awareness that set it apart from the so-serious-it-hurts style that Raw tried to carry at the same time.

And oh, the storylines. The mad, hilarious and oddly captivating storylines.

We should totally have an EoFF E-Federation.

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Originally Posted by NeoCracker

We should totally have an EoFF E-Federation.

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We kind of already did. I got stabbed with a sword.

Maybe it should have sent up some flags about my sexuality but my favorite wrestler as a little kid was Shawn Michaels.
http://i.imgur.com/a2AZZxl.jpg


Indeed he was the most "flamboyant" WWF Champion ever.

And of course after him my new favorite was Triple H. Do you realize just how beautiful his hair was? I'd kill for hair like that.

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Originally Posted by NeoCracker

Speficically, for those who want to know the moment/What we're talking about, this is the smurf up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U09oXyiAkOc

The cage wasn't suppose to give, so he took that fall completely unprepared.

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The cage was rigged to give. It wasn't a botch.

What WAS a botch was the chair falling with him and hitting him in the face. He wound up more injured from that than the fall (his tooth was knocked out, you can see it perversely sticking out of his nose is some footage/pictures).

For a while I was really into indie wrestling, like ECW in the 90's, before it was bought out by WWE. I hate watching WWE now. The camera direction is smurfing terrible. The stupid camera angles and worse - camera SHAKING every time someone hits a move? Nauseating.

Basically I don't watch wrestling much any more but about once a year or so I'll get in the mood and watch a couple of PPVs and then get bored and don't bother for a year or so.

What I still find fascinating about wrestling is how utterly corrupt it is. The politics behind the scenes is insane. It's a very weird industry. Even weirder than all the silly costumes and half naked dudes rubbing each other would imply.

That's why you need to check out YouShoot. It's an awesome site.

Kevin Nash is my hero


Also wrestling stories are simply the best. If you have not read about how "Sycho" Sid Vicious attempted assault with a squeegee, go Google that right now.

Also Shawn and Nash and all those stories of their crazy days in the 90s where they were popping pills like candy. So many wonderful stories there too.

Now I might have loved Shawn but I had normal loves too.

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Originally Posted by Parker

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeoCracker

Speficically, for those who want to know the moment/What we're talking about, this is the smurf up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U09oXyiAkOc

The cage wasn't suppose to give, so he took that fall completely unprepared.

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The cage was rigged to give. It wasn't a botch.

What WAS a botch was the chair falling with him and hitting him in the face. He wound up more injured from that than the fall (his tooth was knocked out, you can see it perversely sticking out of his nose is some footage/pictures).

For a while I was really into indie wrestling, like ECW in the 90's, before it was bought out by WWE. I hate watching WWE now. The camera direction is smurfing terrible. The stupid camera angles and worse - camera SHAKING every time someone hits a move? Nauseating.

Basically I don't watch wrestling much any more but about once a year or so I'll get in the mood and watch a couple of PPVs and then get bored and don't bother for a year or so.

What I still find fascinating about wrestling is how utterly corrupt it is. The politics behind the scenes is insane. It's a very weird industry. Even weirder than all the silly costumes and half naked dudes rubbing each other would imply.

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It wasn't suppose to give there, at least not according to his book. The fall through the cage was suppose to happen later.

I read the same thing in Foley's book. I really liked his books. I also read the autobiographies of The Rock and Ric Flair. Never got around to reading Bret Hart's.

William Regal's and The Dynamite Kid's are great reading, but pretty depressing stuff. Dynamite Kid's story in particular. He wasn't a great person, but like a lot of people in wrestling addiction and injury ruined his life. Sad reading.

This Cracked article is interesting. It's got a ton of insights, both good and bad, into the history of pro wrestling and how it's changed, as well as detailed accounts of some of the more famous mishaps.

:Edit: the article was co-authored by wrestler who retired due to injury, so its 'insider perspective' claims are quite credible.

I liked wrestling in grade school. Once I found out it was scripted I had enough of that. It seems like ti more about running your mouth to everyone that actually wrestling now. Even if it's scripted if it was more action and less drama it might be more appealing to me. I somehow doubt it though.

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I want to be Triple H one day; be as gormless, repugnant, and talentless as possible but still strike it big by sleeping with the right person.

I'd just settle for sleeping with Stephanie, to be frank.

If WWE has any sense remaining in its booking Daniel Bryan will leave WrestleMania as the WWE World Heavyweight Champion.

Triple H was the head of DX for a year or two and was the most popular Face in the WWF next to Austin. I recall a WWF Magazine at the time that even predicted his Heel Turn because he was such a big thing that people were waiting for him to challenge for the WWF Title.

Plus if you know his history, you know he was supposed to be "the next big thing" but then the Kliq Incident happened and he got busted down to wrestling Henry Godwin. He never complained though. He spent the next year or so in Slop Matches and worked his way back up to being one of the most beloved wrestlers in the company.

I won't say he's a super-talented or super-charismatic wrestler because he's not but he is most certainly not talentless. Just listen to that pop when he returned in 2002.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRGQugQpjz8

There have been plenty of guys who were pushed to the moon but failed miserably. Sleeping with Steph would never have gotten him anywhere if the crowds didn't respond to him.

The people in 2002 were stupid, they cheered for Cena back then.

I never really liked Triple H. At first he never struck me as anything special and I always figured he was just pushed to the top because he was from the Attitude era. However I think it was when he reunited DX the most recent time I began to get legitimately sick of seeing him on TV. My description of him is Hyperbole but nevertheless I do not see the appeal of ol' beakie. Granted he makes a good authoritarian villain, he seems to really fit the role really well and all those old rumours about him burying talent help with the image.

The people in 2002 weren't stupid, a lot of guys who come back from injury get huge pops upon their return. Especially when they're told by doctors they may never wrestle again. I can't remember if that was the case with Triple H, but I know it was a nasty injury.

Triple H works best in a group setting. When he was on his own as Hunter Hearst Helmsley he was terrible. He had the in-ring ability, but pro wrestling hasn't been about wrestling since the sixties. Once he made nice with Shawn backstage and they formed D-Generation X things began to kick off for him. After that he led DX, had Chyna at his side when he was solo, followed by Stephanie, the McMahon Family and a few years later Evolution. His hype in 2002 died down when Hogan entered the fray and became Champion.

My only problem with Triple H is that he fell to the same bad habits a lot of Main Eventers do, ego. He wouldn't put people over, he buried quite a few wrestlers in the past and even as an authority figure he butted into angles that he had no place in like the Punk/Cena feud a few years back. Despite his popularity he was never as big a draw as the likes of Austin and The Rock and I get the feeling that always ate at him inside. When the average wrestling fan thinks of the all time greats, Triple H seldom appears on the list.

Austin is right up there with Hogan in Undisputed King of Wrestling when you get down to fame/success. I doubt anyone will top them as they were Kings of the World at pro-wrestling's highest points.
Hogan also gets points for being on top in both Eras.

I like Triple H and I watched wrestling religiously during the McMahon-Helmsley Era. He's not my favorite wrestler anymore but I've never hated him like so many online wrestling fans.

Let's talk about a friendlier topic - wrestling has some of the best music. What are your favorites wrestler themes?

Triple H was never the best wrestler at any given time but he deserves credit for his part during the Attitude Era. Some of his feuds with The Rock and Mankind were great. He was also a pretty effective heel (but not as good as a babyface).

My favorite wrestling themes are:

• Hulk Hogan - The original classic
• Mr. Perfect - Probably my favorite ever
• Sting - Sting was the best thing about WCW
• Juventud Guerrera - The luchadors were also a great thing about the old WCW
• The Rock - The modern classic
• Kurt Angle - This was our entrance music at our wedding
• Vince McMahon - NO CHANCE

I may post more favorites later!

HHH is good, but I never felt he had the ability to be a the top guy, as either a heel or a face. He is, however, great at being that guy to put your Top stars up against between major story lines, or a great heel to pit against a face he's rising in popularity in the company, cause he is definately formidable enough the be a great challange to overcome.

Also, he is one hell of a trooper. I remember hearing a story about him fueding with Jericho, and at one point in the match HHH tore a hamstring. Jericho Realized this happened, but regardless of his hesitation to do so, HHH still insisted Jericho put him in the Walls, which would kill the smurf out of a torn hamstring.

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Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover

I like Triple H and I watched wrestling religiously during the McMahon-Helmsley Era. He's not my favorite wrestler anymore but I've never hated him like so many online wrestling fans.

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I don't hate him either. He gets crap for marrying a woman who just happened to be in a position of power because WWE is a family business. I don't think he married for his career or their marriage never would have lasted for as long as it has (ten years) with three children to boot. He isn't guilty of any crimes that a lot of people in the business aren't already. I'll still hold him accountable for the people he did screw over like I would with anyone else. And as far as Triple H discussions goes this is the nicest one on the internet so... :p

There are too many themes to list, man. I'm going to give a shout out to American Made (Hogan's theme during his time in WCW) and the Corporate Ministry remix.

Corporate Ministry: good choice. I forgot that one since it was only around briefly but it was a great one.

Vince McMahon needs to be the final boss in a future Final Fantasy. Basically think of him like Zemus.

IT WAS ME, CECIL!!!! IT WAS ME ALL ALONG!!!!

God...what a frickin' troll.

But now I want to go old school.

I heard that Mike Tyson was originally supposed to be the 'Higher Power' but they couldn't get him so they fell back on Vince for the sake of a plot twist. I believe it solely because looking back on the angle it makes no sense for Vince to torture his own family just to get back at Austin.

I don't care, it was an awesome moment and eventually led to Stephanie's heel turn later in the year.

Is anybody planning to tune in for WrsetleMania XXX tonight? I don't know if it comes on around the same time as Game of Thrones premiers, but I have a feeling if it does viewership on WWE's side is going to suffer.

Welp Brock Lesner just ended Undertakers Streak!

It's like the WWE hates us.

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Originally Posted by NeoCracker

Welp Brock Lesner just ended Undertakers Streak!

It's like the WWE hates us.

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If they weren't going to let him retire 20 - 0 I'm glad they ended it. Maybe now he can either retire full time or his WrestleMania matches will be about more than just the bloody streak.

At least Daniel Bryan won the title.

awww trout. i should've known there'd be spoilers in this thread. i might still check it out anyway. lmao at it being brock lesnar. i havent watched wwe properly in a while, i didnt know people cared about him. they must be monster pushing him again to have him end undertakers magnificent magic WM streak.

i might also watch it for the no-doubt massive daniel bryan pop when he wins it, finally giving the fans what they wanted months ago.

Considering how much money they're paying him they'd be crazy to have him job at Mania.

I haven't been keeping up, but yea, I guess they must be paying him a trout ton. i didn't realise he was such a draw, i dont care about him at all.

I'm kinda glad HHH lost pretty cleanly for a change, and even his (pointless) involvement in the main event was fairly limited.

also were new age outlaws brought back just for a quick pop? they seem like they've been relegated to token jobber tag team already. idk. again, i havent been watching much, i just watched mania and i probably won't watch any wwe again for 6 months or a year

I don't know how big a draw he is, but being a former MMA competitor I know he isn't cheap. I don't know about anything else because I haven't cared enough to watch a full WWE show since last Summer. And I thought that sucked ass and haven't watched it since.

Quick Wrestlemania thoughts:

So many people are disappointed by the fact that Brock ended Taker's streak. Honestly, I thought it was an awesome decision based on shock-value alone. I never, ever thought the streak would end, and moreover, I never ever thought it would be Lesnar to do it.

Both of Bryan's matches were absolutely awesome, but I think the main event was the match of the night. Classic Attitude-Era level shenanigans with the Triple H run-in. Awesome stuff :D

Sad news. The Ultimate Warrior passed away :( Go figure, finally get inducted into the Hall of Fame and then kicks the bucket.

The Wrestling Observer is claiming that Sting signed a contract with WWE. I'm unsure whether or not to believe it, but since Sting has departed from TNA and Ultimate Warrior was a friend, maybe. All I know if the deal is true is that Sting won't be wrestling full time.

They may have sting doing the same role they were gonna have warrior doing - i think the title was "brand ambassador", whatever that is supposed to mean.


UW was a total icon but like a lot of people in that industry he was a huge idiot bigot and it's a shame he never got to realise this and maybe apologise for all the dumb idiot bigot things he said before he snuffed it.

It's a topic of nostalgia for me. I used to get excited about being allowed to stay up an hour later to watch wrestling with my uncle c:

Sting did a Q&A recently and in response to a question said words to the effect of "well my new favourite number is 31" so make of that what you will.

Here you go:



Dunno what his role will be if he has signed, obviously he won't be *WrestleMania spoilers* (SPOILER)challenging the streak so we'll have to see what happens.

There are so many things they could do with Sting that you could go on for hours just to realize that WWE probably won't be smart enough to do any of it.

The latest rumour doing the rounds is Sting vs The Rock apparently, I think it's got to the point where as long as he wrestles somebody I'll be content. But yeah, leave it to WWE to completely mess it up no doubt.

I'd still prefer Sting vs The Undertaker regardless of the storyline surrounding it, at least it would be a less strenuous match for Taker in comparison to his last five or six Mania matches with nothing to prove now. A simple 'Icon vs Icon' match would be adequate enough.