How do they do it? :confused: Why can only some people do it? :confused:
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How do they do it? :confused: Why can only some people do it? :confused:
I like Jiro's explanation of water and anti gravity tech the best so far. Although that leaves you to wonder if it wouldn't contradict the anti-machea stance that most people in Spira grew up with. Unless that wouldn't count as machea.
Apart from that I have no idea. I don't think they ever explain it.
It's easy to hold your breath when you have no brain! AH HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!
Actually, I wondered that, myself. I just generally assumed that Blitzball players and the Al Bhed do some sort of endurance training to build up the tolerance to hold their breath for awhile.
People of Spira can undergo some really awesome training that allows them to hold their breath underwater for long periods of time.
Any more explanation necessary?
Good assumption. I never thought of that myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephex
I was expecting them all to have gills that just weren't possible to see in the original version, but I guess the HD remaster debunks that. :(
The play periods in Blitzball are only a few minutes aren't they? Considering the world record for a free dive, as far as I know, required the diver to hold their breath for a bit under five minutes, I suppose it's doable. A dive isn't quite the same as constantly swimming and passing and stuff in Blitzball, but people in Spira have also had more than 1,000 years of playing Blitzball and living on the water to lead to some impressive adaptation to extensive immersion in water.
The stadium (sphere) itself is a machina as far as I remember. It gets mentioned during the moonflow section when Tidus asks about why the Shoopuf lift is allowed but other machina aren't.
Because they are athletes, it's their job, they've trained from childhood to do it, or otherwise in excellent physical shape? It isn't unheard of for people to hold their breaths for a very long time; it's only slightly more of a stretch for people to learn how to hold their breaths while exerting themselves in other ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinx
Spira brains might have greater tolerance for oxygen deprivation. It could make sense as an evolutionary adaptation.
Alternatively, blame it on pyreflies. They do everything.
It is, but it doesn't count, because it's entertainment (explicit statement through in-game lore). Generally, Sin responds to weaponized machina. Incidentally, it helps Yevon keep the general population down by distracting them from the prospect of a very violent death, sometime before the 11 o'clock news.Quote:
Originally Posted by ToriJ
5 total, 2:30 with a halftime. I don't believe that there are any pauses or timeouts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi22
Then again, the version of Blitzball we are playing as a minigame in FFX could be an abridged version, in the same way that Madden shortens most football games down to 5 minute quarters, instead of 15 minute quarters. For comparison, most NFL games are 60 minutes long, but most actually take 3 hours, with 10 commercial breaks per half mandated by the NFL agreement with its broadcasters and advertisers. Playing a full version of Blitzball may have similar issues.
>>> They have the Oxyale..:luca:
It's 10:00 total, 5:00 per half, though the timer ticks faster than real time. Definitely beyond the peak of normal human endurance for that exertion level.
Not that it really matters. There are so many problems with the scenario it's kind of ridiculous.
They aren't normal humans. They exist and evolved in an ecology vastly different from our own. Pyreflies, fiends, multiple sentient races, and who knows what other changes. Holding their breath for that long is still a struggle, but it is one they can train past. It's just a part of the different world, in the same way life in the Song of Ice and Fire novels can survive multiple year winters.
I remember reading a fan theory that (SPOILER)Tidus never truly faded at the end of FFX, that he was just in a deep slumber in the ocean. That's why he woke up after the credits, which is linked to the "good" end of FFX-2. The same scene plays where he emerges from the water near Besaid to meet Yuna. That would mean that Tidus, best blitz player in the world held his breath while unconscious for 2+ years.
Well, Blitzball games only last five minutes per session, so it's not too far fetched that they would be able to train themselves to hold their breaths that long.
That doesn't explain how they held it in the Via Infinito though. Unless Rikku still had some of those little breathing apparatuses handy. :p
I think Datto mentions that the best Blitzball players can even sleep underwater. Clearly, they have improved their lung capacity to where they can function underwater and exert themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if we just don't see them "surfacing" in case they get hit too hard and drop their breath. While I call bulltrout on sleeping underwater, after seeing those crazy free divers on Youtube, I have to say that it is very plausible.
I think it's just a physiological difference between earth humans and spira humans. It's not impossible even in our world, after all. Some mammals can do it in real life, just not humans. Dolphins and whales are two examples.
It's ridiculous and science-defying, is what it is xD
I am more worried about Blitzball players being unconscious in the stadium like Wakka. Some staff people could use telekinesis to create force fields that are their size around them which isolate oxygen for them. Vegeto from Dragon Ball had such a force field and it resulted in not getting absorbed and inhale demonic gas as he could breathe and talk normally.
Gillyweed.
Unlike casting spells, summoning gigantic supernatural beasts, dreams coming to life and inter-dimensional time travel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephex
Or maybe all of the breath holding is what lead to Tidus being...well, Tidus.
Yes. What is the problem? :colbert:Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKAUnlike casting spells, summoning gigantic supernatural beasts, dreams coming to life and inter-dimensional time travel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty
There's no time travel in ffx
Experiment: Relax (hyperventilate with an oxygen supply if you have one), and then hold your breath, and time your duration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiro
Repeat, only this time, sprint around your house while timing yourself.
Calculate out how much shorter the duration is. Compare the ratio to the record, and see how short it falls.
Then realize that Blitzball players are engaged in full body activity, not simply running, and you'll realize that their bodies would consume oxygen even faster, so if the ratio had to be skewed in any way, it would not be in their favor.
Then realize that you're in a fantasy world with magic, monsters, sentient nonhumans, crystals that can power things, crystals that can burn indefinitely, cute little green monsters with a knife that are somehow more deadly than ninety percent of the giant beasts in the world, flying whales, airships apparently powered by flywheels, platforms that can float on holograms, dolls that can be controlled by one's mind, and thousands of other strange phenomena, and ask yourself "why are we questioning this again?".
Also, they can't be immersed in water, because there is nowhere near enough water resistance. A Blitzball would barely move five feet, regardless of how you threw it.
I'm not saying that humanity could do this today. I've been (was?) an athlete for 17 years so I know about oxygen supplies under duress. But saying "this is only possible because fiction" discounts the fact that people can do ridiculous things underwater and perhaps if it were shorter durations, or if they were able to surface, or whatever, would make Blitzball viable in our universe. It is, of course, possible in Spira because ~magic~ but that does not mean it is entirely impossible here.
Why do we question anything, Skyblade? Because we want to. Because it helps us learn. Because it interests us. Because we have things we want to know and understand. Simply saying "it's fiction" is the same as saying "God did it" and science hasn't gotten us this far by saying God did it.
Actually, you might be surprised just how much scientific advance has come from the idea that "God did it". It was an attempt to understand God through his works that drove much of the development of western philosophy and academics. "God did it" was the starting point. "Why God made it the way he did, and how does that change our view of the universe" progressed from there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiro
Also, your statement was essentially the same as my original one (from my first post). They evolved on a different world, in different circumstances, and adapted the ability.
While that does explain it, it's also kind of boring. There are so many clear differences in the world and even the basic laws of physics in Spira that to just wave it away as "they adapted" is no more interesting than "God did it". Yes, the world is made a particular way, and life evolves to fit on that world. But how does life change to adapt to that?
Besides, let's not forget the opening cutscene. We see players get launched out of the sphere pool, and Tidus leaps out of it to make a shot, so there is clearly some opportunity to breathe, regardless of the abstraction of the mini game. Or is that a difference between Spira's and Zanarkand's Blitzball? For that matter, if it is a natural adaptation to the ability to hold one's breathe, how does that explain not just holding breath while sleeping, but even when knocked unconscious into the water (which happens to Tidus)?
I don't understand what you're trying to say. A comment was made that holding your breath underwater was science-defying; I provided an example of it happening in our world that, while not entirely the same, shows that it is plausible if not possible. You retorted with "it's all fictional nobody should give it any thought" and I am struggling to understand why you need to press the point if you don't care?
With a five minute half with potentially pauses for penalties or whatever, it's plausible that a human being from Earth could swim around. Not underwater, of course, because water resistance makes the entire concept of Blitzball impossible. But if you put that aside for the sake of an interesting discussion, then you only need to figure out what technology is required to make water act like that and you can probably have (shortened) versions of Blitzball on earth. Is that not smurfing interesting enough to discuss?
You're the one who just said hand-waving it was boring. So stop hand-waving everything and use your imagination.
I do care, I just care about the world as a whole, and I think isolating one aspect of it out while ignoring others is pointless. What makes the breathing so special that it deserves analysis over the hundreds of other things that are different about Spira?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiro
No, not really. You're discounting a ton of things to focus solely on the breathing. For example, if you do cut water resistance, you also cut propulsion, since that water resistance helps us swim. You also need to consider buoyancy, how the nets are suspended, how the starting marks provide a solid point to push off from in an empty sphere of water without preventing players from moving through it, how the sphere is contained (since, again, it must be constrained without restricting players to it), and a ton of other problems before we will get anything like Blitzball here.Quote:
With a five minute half with potentially pauses for penalties or whatever, it's plausible that a human being from Earth could swim around. Not underwater, of course, because water resistance makes the entire concept of Blitzball impossible. But if you put that aside for the sake of an interesting discussion, then you only need to figure out what technology is required to make water act like that and you can probably have (shortened) versions of Blitzball on earth. Is that not smurfing interesting enough to discuss?
And you need to figure out how to vastly improve human ability to hold their breathe during long durations of heavy exertion.
Otherwise you're just going to be like those people who form Quidditch leagues (although, admittedly, Blitzball is at least a better designed sport).
I am using my imagination. "How do they breathe" is an easily answered question among tons of more interesting ones, and it's not exactly a new question for the fan base either.Quote:
You're the one who just said hand-waving it was boring. So stop hand-waving everything and use your imagination.
We are isolating one thing because we don't just want to create a single FFX thread where everybody posts everything they think of. I already have one of those threads. Blitzball can't be considered in a complete vacuum but comparing it with what is possible in the real world is a great way to figure out what fictional requirements had to be included in order for it to be possible and then we can see if they hold true throughout or if a lack of consistency shows sloppy writing.
You're identifying further things that I hadn't thought about which interests me. If I had simply took "it's a magic world" then I wouldn't have thought about any of them and would be less learned as a result. This is why we're discussing this, as we do with plenty of stupid things on this Final Fantasy fan site.
Honestly, about half of what I wrote was written last night when I was awake after an incredibly long day and half delirious, so I apologize if my arguments made no sense or caused offense, because my logic was pretty much shot by that point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiro
You'd never though about any of those issues? I've frequently considered them when thinking about Blitzball.
For example, my thoughts on buoyancy also solved the need for the Sphere Pool. See, normally, a large mass of water would increase pressure on the lower depths, and make objects of different mass and density behave differently. The purpose of suspending the water in an antigravity pool is to cancel this out, and maintain equal water density throughout the pool. Then, all you have to do is balance a Blitzball to have perfectly neutral buoyancy with the water, so that it will neither naturally climb nor sink when thrown or carried. Of course, Blitzballs then wouldn't float, as we see them doing in Kilika and Besaid, unless the water in the Sphere Pool was also less dense (and therefore, less resistant to movement) than water in a lake or ocean. Or the Blitzballs could be prepped for the Sphere Pool specifically, and different ones could be used for practice. Although, depending on how big a change that is, it might render practices night useless, as a Blitzball tuned to neutral buoyancy in water would normally handle very differently than one which floats like a volleyball.
I'm getting a bit off-topic, aren't I? I'm probably still not fully awake, my kitty decided it was time for me to get up, regardless of what I wanted.
Boy you guys are really getting into this huh?
Evolved from Mermaids.
When I was a kid and played this the first time, I thought it was so weird. It bugged the hell out of me despite all the other fantasy elements in play. I did think it was funny Rikku could do it but not Kimahri, because I hated Kimahri. Playing it again after all these years, I just go with it. Square has made me stop asking any questions if I want to have a modicum of fun with their games.