A Song of Ice and Fire (book discussion - spoilers inside)

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I got my hands on the first Game of Thrones book at the library today and decided to make a thread to talk about the books so we don't fill up the other thread with spoiler tags. I was also going to make a thread commenting on the first book while I read, so upon seeing Psychotic's suggestion decided to kill two birds with one stone. This will be my first time reading the books and everything else I know is from the show and what I read online. Don't worry about spoiling things for me as you reply to this thread, I'm very good at skimming.

I'm reading the prologue now.

Discuss A Song of Ice and Fire.

Good luck with this thread. xD

Congrats on checking out the first book! Definitely share progress and impressions.

George knows how to describe the winter chill, that much is for sure. There's some prose there that reminds me of how I would word things at times, like starting a sentence off with well as if you were having a normal conversation with someone. So far I like the prologue better than how the opening scene went in the first episode.

Should have let Will start a fire, Ser Dick.

Let's talk about GRRM's gratuitous use of rape and how he's probably a very twisted individual. :monster:

I don't think it's gratuitous. It fits in with the themes of the book, namely that misogynistic societies are horrible places to live, especially when they're as torn by war as Westeros is. Now Sword of Truth, there's a series with gratuitous use of rape.

I'm dreading the first rape scene I encounter. That's always been something I steered clear from.

Jesus Christ, George! Way to make me thirsty from a BEHEADING! I should not need a drink after a guy gets his head chopped off like a chicken.

So, ADWD spoiler. (SPOILER)Aegon: Real or fake?

ToriJ...there's a lot of rape. A LOT of it. You get used to it...but it's smurfed up.

Psy...I want to say fake, but a lot of things point to real.

It's funny because I feel the exact opposite to you.

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Originally Posted by Jinx

ToriJ...there's a lot of rape. A LOT of it. You get used to it...but it's smurfed up.

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Oh joy.

I'm glad the narrative explains how old they are. I was always confused on that front.

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Originally Posted by Psychotic

So, ADWD spoiler. (SPOILER)Aegon: Real or fake?

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(SPOILER)I haven't made my mind up yet. Real or Fake, I'll be happy as long as he doesn't win the IT in the end. Like I said in the other thread, I'd be really disappointed with that end, considering his late arrival to the series.

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Originally Posted by Jess

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Originally Posted by Psychotic

So, ADWD spoiler. (SPOILER)Aegon: Real or fake?

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(SPOILER)I haven't made my mind up yet. Real or Fake, I'll be happy as long as he doesn't win the IT in the end. Like I said in the other thread, I'd be really disappointed with that end, considering his late arrival to the series.

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(SPOILER)He seems like such a top lad though. He's been trained not to be a privileged and entitled trout. Honestly the best ending for everyone is for him to become king, Targaryen blood or no.

You know, people always tell me that the first book was so slow and the first episode's pace was too fast, but so far I find the book pace to be fast and the first episode seemed to have followed it well for the most part out of the stuff I've read.

Did Viserys just give his sister a purple nurple? *reads again* Son of a dick!

I thought the pacing of the first book was just fine.

It was slow for me.

I think probably a lot of people who watched the show first then read the book feel that way. I watched the show first, but like I said, I personally found it okay.

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Originally Posted by Shorty

It was slow for me.

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If you mean what happens overall when compared to the other books, I get that.

If we're talking narrative, I don't see it. The first chapter of the Lord of the Rings is slow. The first two chapters of Half Blood Prince is slow. These chapters (if you can call them that) have all been fast paced, almost too fast for my tastes at times. I find myself stopping, going back and reading what I already read just to make sure I haven't skimmed over anything. If I haven't already watched the show and knew what most of these names they've been throwing out are I'd be completely lost. It's like the Mortal Instrument movie all over again.

Breathe, story. Take the time to BREATHE!

I don't mean in comprison to the other books, I'm talking about how I felt the first time I read it.

I don't think that if you started reading this book today you can really judge how fast or slow the entire thing is paced at. It starts out well, true enough, but by halfway/two thirds of the way in, it began to drag for me. The second one was worse. The third book was perfectly paced to me.

Well, I haven't read it in two years, so. :gator:

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Originally Posted by Shorty

I don't mean in comprison to the other books, I'm talking about how I felt the first time I read it.

I don't think that if you started reading this book today you can really judge how fast or slow the entire thing is paced at. It starts out well, true enough, but by halfway/two thirds of the way in, it began to drag for me. The second one was worse. The third book was perfectly paced to me.

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Honestly, I'm probably going to be saying a lot of inaccuracies as I play-by-play commentate while I read. Glad to know it slows down eventually, right now it feels like I'm reading the middle of a book rather than the beginning.

I was just explaining why you may not see it yet, because you've only just started reading. If you finish and still feel the same, ah well, different perceptions.

No harm, then.

Oh, right, I forgot my rite of passage going from show to book. DANY IS ONLY THIRTEEN?!

Yup.

I'm assuming you've already gotten to the sex scene between her and Drogo. Something that REALLY bothers me about the show is the portrayal of the first time they have sex. In the book she's apprehensive but eventually consents and wants it. In the show it's nothing more than rape.

Keep in mind people had to grow up a lot quicker in the feudal era the story is imitating. People had kids and died a lot younger than most of us and that's only if they were lucky enough to make it out of infancy.

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Originally Posted by Jinx

I'm assuming you've already gotten to the sex scene between her and Drogo. Something that REALLY bothers me about the show is the portrayal of the first time they have sex. In the book she's apprehensive but eventually consents and wants it. In the show it's nothing more than rape.

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I actually just finished the chapter where Ned is asked to be the new Hand of the King and Roberts want to combine their houses by marrying their children yesterday, but I'm already familiar with the change you're talking about. Given how their overall relationship develops the way the book did it makes more sense.

Ooh, yay! Book thread!

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Originally Posted by Psychotic

So, ADWD spoiler. (SPOILER)Aegon: Real or fake?

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ADWD troutI still haven't formed an opinion on him, but when he was first revealed, I was skeptical. Then I was like, "you go, boy." He was growing on me, I guess. But now I'm on the fence about him and probably thinking too hard about it. XD

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Originally Posted by ToriJ

You know, people always tell me that the first book was so slow and the first episode's pace was too fast, but so far I find the book pace to be fast and the first episode seemed to have followed it well for the most part out of the stuff I've read.

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I started reading the books after marathoning through the first and second seasons and didn't stop until I finished ADWD. The pacing was fine for me. I think they got increasingly faster paced up through the third book. I was easily engrossed. And after reading The Sword of Truth books for a while, the ASOIAF ones seemed like they flowed much better. But part of that is probably because I lost interest in SoT overall and got impatient with it.

ADWDLike most people, from what it seems, I'm on the fence about Aegon, which is of course exactly what Martin intends. He's hard to predict.

Jon Snow is a pretty big candidate for the Iron Throne, I think - given that he's not unlikely to be a Targaryen and also The Prince That Was Promised - but it wouldn't surprise me if he was brought along up until that point and then ruthlessly killed and probably eaten by crows or something.

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Originally Posted by Lonely Paper Star

I started reading the books after marathoning through the first and second seasons and didn't stop until I finished ADWD. The pacing was fine for me. I think they got increasingly faster paced up through the third book. I was easily engrossed. And after reading The Sword of Truth books for a while, the ASOIAF ones seemed like they flowed much better. But part of that is probably because I lost interest in SoT overall and got impatient with it.

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I'm good with a fast pace, I've gone that pace myself with my writing. I'm just wondering if I'd be able to follow the story as well as I am now if I didn't already see the TV show.

ADWDAegon: Real or fake?

Not enough information to figure it out so it's really a guess. My guess is that he's real, and he will meet up with Dany and be a dragon rider. Then you have to wonder if he'll actually live through it and become king with Dany as his queen (Targaryen's were totally cool with that and it puts an interesting light on the Jaime/Cercsi relationship :p) or if he'll die during the war. On second thought though, I don't remember the book ever mentioning his eyes. Wouldn't the prince have purple eyes? The boy surely doesn't or Tyrion would have noticed that immediately instead of unraveling who they were during his boat ride. It's seems like such an easily explained-away situation though.

the ongoing ADWD thingI think it'd be cool if Aegon turned out to be a Blackfyre, but I don't know how possible that would be.


spoilery if you haven't finished through at least AFFCSo apparently this SFX issue had this blurb in it. Does it think who I think it means, whose initials are (SPOILER)LSH? I really hope so, but I'm not sure. If it was true, then this person is very good at keeping things under wraps.

Pitye...Who is LSH?

Jinx...Lady Stoneheart

The Players of Games? Really​?

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Originally Posted by Psychotic

So, ADWD spoiler. (SPOILER)Aegon: Real or fake?

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Trick question.

(SPOILER)Fake Targaryen, but a Blackfyre. And he will be key to Varys' success in the game.

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Originally Posted by Noctis Caelum

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Originally Posted by Psychotic

So, ADWD spoiler. (SPOILER)Aegon: Real or fake?

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Trick question.

(SPOILER)Fake Targaryen, but a Blackfyre. And he will be key to Varys' success in the game.

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I'd be down with this. XD

I'm getting all five books in a set for only twenty-seven bucks online. Pretty good deal if I do say so myself. Now I won't have to worry about being pressed for time to get through it all.

I dont know how anyone else felt about this but I found the stuff in Dorne to be super boring. Maybe it's because I dont have a strong enough imagination to picture it without having a clear image of the characters from the show but later when Cersei's uncle goes to her and summarieses what happened in Dorne in 3 lines I cant help but think "thats it, that's everything that happened in Dorne. You wasted whole chapters on it when it only took 3 lines to explain. I got nothing out of those chapter other than what that summary gave me"

The exception being the one where the dorne princess talks to her dad about aegon. That was mildly interesting

Dorne is an unaligned power-player. It's all build-up.

I thought the Dorne chapters brought nice flavour, though admittedly they weren't overflowing with action.

That's how I felt about it on my initial read - I just didn't care about these characters when I already had this tight cast I was so invested in.

The second time, I read them together with the Iron Islands chapters as GRRM originally intended, as an extended prologue isolated from the main plot. It was much more enjoyable and I appreciated how the tension was beginning to boil over in these areas, with Dorne all but ready for open rebellion and its army in the Boneway ready to go.

I get the feeling that the show is going to cut the thing about Tyrion's first wife and have Tyrion go search for Shae instead.

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Originally Posted by blackmage_nuke

I get the feeling that the show is going to cut the thing about Tyrion's first wife and have Tyrion go search for Shae instead.

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I was just reading up on that, too.

Yeah, I spoiled myself. I don't care, I'm impatient.

That would be retarded.

ADWDSeeing everybody in the other thread hoping for Stannis to be the real king makes me hope he really died. I don't think he did, but we'll see next book.

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Originally Posted by theundeadhero

That would be retarded.ADWDSeeing everybody in the other thread hoping for Stannis to be the real king makes me hope he really died. I don't think he did, but we'll see next book.

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TWOWHe isn't dead.

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Originally Posted by blackmage_nuke

I get the feeling that the show is going to cut the thing about Tyrion's first wife and have Tyrion go search for Shae instead.

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Ugh, that would make me upset, but I can see them doing it.

Oh my god. That would be so dumb. Part of the reason it's SO GREAT in the book is because you're just gutted (no pun intended) for Tyrion. And it's just such a smurfing betrayal. I'd still be perfectly okay with what happened to book Shae happening to show Shae, and I think the way they've made their relationship so much more realistic and built on love would make it even more of a shocker.


so booo I hope that's not what happens

They better not go the Hollywood route.

It's taking away another opportunity for me to see my friends cry

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Originally Posted by ToriJ

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Originally Posted by blackmage_nuke

I get the feeling that the show is going to cut the thing about Tyrion's first wife and have Tyrion go search for Shae instead.

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I was just reading up on that, too.

Yeah, I spoiled myself. I don't care, I'm impatient.

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Lucky for you, studies show that spoilers do not ruin the reading experience ^_^

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Originally Posted by blackmage_nuke

I get the feeling that the show is going to cut the thing about Tyrion's first wife and have Tyrion go search for Shae instead.

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That would be such a shame as it's arguably the most devastating volley in the series of bombshells GRRM relentlessly drops on your head at the end of ASOS.

Not to mention that getting rid of Tyrion's backstory would eliminate what is arguably Tywin's most monstrous act in the entire series and (SPOILER)it would make almost zero sense for Tyrion to kill him without that as a catalyst. For that reason alone I think it's unlikely they'll be stupid enough to do that, but I'm not going to rule anything out.

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Lucky for you, studies show that spoilers do not ruin the reading experience ^_^

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Biggest load of bulltrout "study" ever

You can experience something knowing what happens as many times as you want after your first reading, you only get once chance in your life to expereince something without spoilers and when it's gone it's gone

I remember them mentioning his first wife before in season one so there's still a chance this will happen on the show.

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Originally Posted by ToriJ

I remember them mentioning his first wife before in season one so there's still a chance this will happen on the show.

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That was before they realised how well the audience would respond to Shae

Dorne was where I felt something might boil over soon but it never quite did.

Also Victarion is a smurfing badass. Lets talk about how awesome he is.

Victarion for the iron throne. Paid for with the iron price.

I am now the proud owner of books 1 - 5 ^_^

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Originally Posted by blackmage_nuke

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Lucky for you, studies show that spoilers do not ruin the reading experience ^_^

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Biggest load of bulltrout "study" ever

You can experience something knowing what happens as many times as you want after your first reading, you only get once chance in your life to expereince something without spoilers and when it's gone it's gone

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Yep, totally agreed.

I am just the first thirty pages into A Feast for Crows and I haaaaaaaate hate hate smurfing hate the Pyke scenes. Aeron is so smurfing pious and boring.

Pyke so far contains my least favorite scenes. As of right now, I would take reading about Dragonstone over Pyke any day.

There has been speculation that in the show either Victarion and Euron will be combined into one character, one of them will be cut, or they will both be cut entirely.

What do you all think? They seem too essential to be cut entirely.

Do you mean cut from the show?

That is what I meant, my bad.

Unless there's also speculation that they'll fuse together in the books a la Dragon Ball Z, which would be AWESOME.

Ah, if it's for the show, might be best for the show thread!

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Originally Posted by Shorty

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Originally Posted by blackmage_nuke

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Lucky for you, studies show that spoilers do not ruin the reading experience ^_^

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Biggest load of bulltrout "study" ever

You can experience something knowing what happens as many times as you want after your first reading, you only get once chance in your life to expereince something without spoilers and when it's gone it's gone

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Yep, totally agreed.

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Well it's just something I brought up to encourage ToriJ but my own experiences suggest there's substance behind the statistics. Personally, I heard about Joffrey death while reading the first few books and I remember feeling mortified having the certainty that it would happen within the current novels but all those feelings evaporated when I finally read the scene. The article I posted cited Hitchcock and how knowing something terrible will happen makes it all the more horrifying. Gabriel Garcia Marquez was also lauded for experimenting with telling the reader how it ends ahead of time with resounding success.

I empathize with the gut reaction but research and common experience paint a more complex reality (as they tend to do).

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

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Originally Posted by Shorty

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Originally Posted by blackmage_nuke

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Lucky for you, studies show that spoilers do not ruin the reading experience ^_^

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Biggest load of bulltrout "study" ever

You can experience something knowing what happens as many times as you want after your first reading, you only get once chance in your life to expereince something without spoilers and when it's gone it's gone

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Yep, totally agreed.

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Well it's just something I brought up to encourage ToriJ but my own experiences suggest there's substance behind the statistics. Personally, I heard about Joffrey death while reading the first few books and I remember feeling mortified having the certainty that it would happen within the current novels but all those feelings evaporated when I finally read the scene. The article I posted cited Hitchcock and how knowing something terrible will happen makes it all the more horrifying. Gabriel Garcia Marquez was also lauded for experimenting with telling the reader how it ends ahead of time with resounding success.

I empathize with the gut reaction but research and common experience paint a more complex reality (as they tend to do).

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Yes but if the creator wants you to think something horrible is about to happen they'll do that through the mood they set and the atmosphere they write with. Alfred Hitchcock says it's more terrifying not more enjoyable and not every story is a horror story.

Also the "research" only conducts it's experiment with one short story (which you could tell was going to end badly if you can see story cliche's coming). This is different from something where you've invested hours/years into and have developed emotional bonds with characters. The creator sculpts your mind into the place they want it to be in when they drop the bomb on you to best envoke the emotion they want.

I am about a quarter of the way through A Feast for Crows and Sam's chapters are agonizing. I hope they pick up.

A Feast for Crows isn't quite as amazing as A Clash of Kings or A Storm of Swords, but it is still a very good book. Sam's chapters get... interesting... eventually.

I'm having trouble continuing to read the first book. Right now I'm on the Tyrion chapter where he escorts Jon to the Wall and I confess to skipping the Dany chapter that came before that because I just can't bring myself to read it. I see what Shorty was talking about earlier. The first book is basically just one big build up to the second from what I can see.

I do like some things in the book better than they were in the show. Like Jon and Arya being the only children to take after Ned, Joffrey looking like a girl and being taller than Robb and Jon, and the sword practice scene was nice. I'm sad they excluded that from the show but I understand why. I think the show did a better job of making Catelyn and Sansa more likeable at the beginning though. Cat just comes off so freaking cold. I understand the mindset because it's medieval and everything, but damn.

Cersei is so much worse in the books, oh my gods.

Book Cersei is indeed pretty sensational but doesn't have as much eyebrow furrowing!

Why can't you read the Day chapter? You should.

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Originally Posted by Kalevala

A Feast for Crows isn't quite as amazing as A Clash of Kings or A Storm of Swords, but it is still a very good book. Sam's chapters get... interesting... eventually.

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Ugh, Clash of Kings dragged on so badly for me xD My least favorite book for certain. A Storm of Swords has been my favorite, but is now rivaled by A Feast for Crows!

I just finished Crows last night and I loved it. The first quarter of the book was slow for me, but after I pushed past that part, it just kept getting more and more action-packed, even when it felt like nothing was really happening. One of the biggest WTF moments of the series for me was crows spoilerCersei's plans crumbling into a thousand pieces when she visited the High Septon and saw her Kettleblack lover all strung up and tortured. Right there I knew they had her. That was magnificent. I really like Margaery, though, she's my girl and I hope she ends up alright :( I do like that the Faith doesn't seem to be focusing on any "side" of the players of thrones, and I'm glad to see that Kevan Lannister has been sent to rule as Regent. Pycelle is a scheming little weasel, but I think it's likely that he knows what's better for the realm than Cersei does.

Started on Dragons yesterday after I finished Crows! In the past I've kindof taken a break here and there after finishing each book, but I went straight to the kindle store to jump right into the next one immediately after.

I've had my qualms with GRRM and his writing style (with a few things but particularly with regard to his women - I don't think he writes their POVs very realistically, but hey, they're his characters), but I really do appreciate the stories he weaves and the remarkable way he manages to tie them all together. Really very profound.

You read A Clash of Kings after having watched season two though, right? I can see how that would alter the experience.

Did you catch the hints in the prologue/epilogue? If you didn't and want to know.The alchemist in the beginning has the exact physical description as the face Jaqen H'ghar took on after leaving Harrenhal. He seemingly kills Pate, and then we see Pate in the epilogue introducing himself using a title he apparently hated. Jaqen is up to some trout.

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Originally Posted by Kalevala

You read A Clash of Kings after having watched season two though, right? I can see how that would alter the experience.

Did you catch the hints in the prologue/epilogue? If you didn't and want to know.The alchemist in the beginning has the exact physical description as the face Jaqen H'ghar took on after leaving Harrenhal. He seemingly kills Pate, and then we see Pate in the epilogue introducing himself using a title he apparently hated. Jaqen is up to some trout.

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I did, yes, and WHAT. I did not catch that!

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

Why can't you read the Day chapter?

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'Cause I didn't feel like it at the time.

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Originally Posted by Shorty

I've had my qualms with GRRM and his writing style (with a few things but particularly with regard to his women - I don't think he writes their POVs very realistically

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I want to hear more of this. Don't worry about the haters. I'll keep them away by threatening to make them watch Uwe Boll movies.

Hear more about how I dislike his writing style?

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Originally Posted by Shorty

Hear more about how I dislike his writing style?

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Mainly why you find the women POVs unrealistic, but I left the rest in there because I'm curious if your dislikes are the same as my dislikes.

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Originally Posted by Shorty

I've had my qualms with GRRM and his writing style (with a few things but particularly with regard to his women - I don't think he writes their POVs very realistically, but hey, they're his characters)

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http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Writing_Women

I would say that my most grievious problem is the way the he conveys internal dialogue, especially when it comes to women like Cersei ad Catelyn, and he's an offender with Jaime as well. Their internal dialogue is just atrocious. The quips and snark and comments the characters want to make but hold back. I greatly detest Cersei and Catelyn, so I can appreciate this just being a piece of their character, but he also does it with Jaime, and with others I can't think of right now, I'm sure. Daenerys, and Aerys Oakhart, as of recent. Sam as well.

Note that I don't have any problems with what he writes about so much as how he writes it. Listen, I have no qualms with the blatant, rampant sexism strewn about these books. No problems with it whatsoever. I don't even tolerate it or dislike it; it's part of their world, and as a reader, I accept that. But the way he writes women - completely irrational with so few of them capable of intelligent thought, leaves me no room to relate to any of them. One could make the argument that he's aware of this and even tried to combat this with the strong female characters of Dorne, but so far, even Dorne has fallen short for me. It doesn't come down to sexism. GRRM just does not know how to write women in a way for other women to relate to them*. (*In my own personal opinion as a female reader.)

Another problem is that his writing doesn't jump out at me as overwhelming and profound works of art. That's okay, because they do't have to be. I'm in it for the story and the journey. There are here and there some clever and noteworthy lines, and I'm not expecting to read a literary masterpiece upon every page. Mostly what keeps me going is, as mentioned, what is happening to his characters, not necessarily his own writing. I wish that I did feel like all of these books I invest in were profound works of art, writing-wise, but it's not how I feel. Still, it's done well enough for me to kick that complaint under the carpet and keep going.

Another complaint, albeit minor, is that I cringe whenever he uses the word "loped" when referring to movement of the direwolves. :stare: It's such an uncommon word, but it's used so often when referring to them and I hate it.

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Originally Posted by Psychotic

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Originally Posted by Shorty

I've had my qualms with GRRM and his writing style (with a few things but particularly with regard to his women - I don't think he writes their POVs very realistically, but hey, they're his characters)

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http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Writing_Women

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I thought this might come up. I see it differently is as best as I can explain. He can say this all he likes, but I feel that the men as written more as "people", the women feel poorly written shadows of the gender they should reflect, especially in a world in which the two are separated so by their own sexes.

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And besides, if I screw up, one of the women in my life is sure to tell me.

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This made me chuckle.

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Originally Posted by Shorty

I would say that my most grievious problem is the way the he conveys internal dialogue, especially when it comes to women like Cersei ad Catelyn, and he's an offender with Jaime as well. Their internal dialogue is just atrocious. The quips and snark and comments the characters want to make but hold back. I greatly detest Cersei and Catelyn, so I can appreciate this just being a piece of their character, but he also does it with Jaime, and with others I can't think of right now, I'm sure. Daenerys, and Aerys Oakhart, as of recent. Sam as well.

Note that I don't have any problems with what he writes about so much as how he writes it. Listen, I have no qualms with the blatant, rampant sexism strewn about these books. No problems with it whatsoever. I don't even tolerate it or dislike it; it's part of their world, and as a reader, I accept that. But the way he writes women - completely irrational with so few of them capable of intelligent thought, leaves me no room to relate to any of them. One could make the argument that he's aware of this and even tried to combat this with the strong female characters of Dorne, but so far, even Dorne has fallen short for me. It doesn't come down to sexism. GRRM just does not know how to write women in a way for other women to relate to them*. (*In my own personal opinion as a female reader.)

Another problem is that his writing doesn't jump out at me as overwhelming and profound works of art. That's okay, because they do't have to be. I'm in it for the story and the journey. There are here and there some clever and noteworthy lines, and I'm not expecting to read a literary masterpiece upon every page. Mostly what keeps me going is, as mentioned, what is happening to his characters, not necessarily his own writing. I wish that I did feel like all of these books I invest in were profound works of art, writing-wise, but it's not how I feel. Still, it's done well enough for me to kick that complaint under the carpet and keep going.

Another complaint, albeit minor, is that I cringe whenever he uses the word "loped" when referring to movement of the direwolves. :stare: It's such an uncommon word, but it's used so often when referring to them and I hate it.

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Ohhhh. I see what you mean. Especially about Catelyn and Cersei.

My main deal is that he's vague as all hell. This didn't bother me at first because I'm vague as all hell, but it wasn't until I started writing my fanfic that I realized just how vague everything is. Where am I standing? I don't know. One guy description is summed up as "blue eyes and sharp features". Talk about minor character syndrome.

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Originally Posted by Shorty

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Originally Posted by Kalevala

You read A Clash of Kings after having watched season two though, right? I can see how that would alter the experience.

Did you catch the hints in the prologue/epilogue? If you didn't and want to know.The alchemist in the beginning has the exact physical description as the face Jaqen H'ghar took on after leaving Harrenhal. He seemingly kills Pate, and then we see Pate in the epilogue introducing himself using a title he apparently hated. Jaqen is up to some trout.

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I did, yes, and WHAT. I did not catch that!

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Right?! I didn't realize at first either but one of my friends pointed it out.

Bought the books about a month ago for when I'm working 3rd shift and it's quiet. I'm about 260 pages into the 1st book outof the 800 it has. I just got passed the part where Bran has woken back up. I watched the first 2 season on TV first before I started reading, so I like how close the books and the showings are; almost identical.

Can't wait to see how this unfolds. Does each book kind of represent a season on HBO?

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Originally Posted by BustaMo

Bought the books about a month ago for when I'm working 3rd shift and it's quiet. I'm about 260 pages into the 1st book outof the 800 it has. I just got passed the part where Bran has woken back up. I watched the first 2 season on TV first before I started reading, so I like how close the books and the showings are; almost identical.

Can't wait to see how this unfolds. Does each book kind of represent a season on HBO?

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For the first two books, yes.

Season 1 = Book 1
Season 2 = Book 2
Season 3 = First half of Book 3
Season 4 = Second half of Book 3 and some of Book 4 and Book 5

Ok that's good to know. I guess I'm not really afraid of spoiling it one way or another myself. I think it would be more enjoyable if I got through the books first and then watched the shows, but with seeing the shows first, I can put a face to a name and event which makes the imagery a bit more vivid.

I know they are saying Book 6 is in the works, which will be a must-buy as soon as it's released.

I find myself liking some of the character descriptions in the books more. Like how all of the Starks minus Arya and Jon have red hair and blue eyes.

Granted, I'm not that bothered by the TV version.

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Originally Posted by ToriJ

I find myself liking some of the character descriptions in the books more. Like how all of the Starks minus Arya and Jon have red hair and blue eyes.

Granted, I'm not that bothered by the TV version.

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I don't think Bran or Rickon have red hair and blue eyes. Or do they?

ADWDTyrion's journey across the Narrow Sea and through Pentos and down the river to the Sorrows is perhaps my favorite part of the series so far, emphasis on the Sorrows, and especially with the discovery of Young Griff's true identity. That was a shock. Loving it.

I like Davos himself, but every single chapter I've ever read of his I just find so bleak and uninteresting. I dread reading them out of fear of boredom.

ADWDI don't know how anyone can find Davos' chapters in ADWD boring. :colbert:

ADWDAll through the entire series and so far up to chapter nineteen of ADWD, I think, they've been astoundingly snoreworthy!

Show Davos > Book Davos

I MEAN WHEN LITTLE SHIREEN TEACHES HIM HOW TO READ :snuggle:

EDIT: I've also decided to take on the Herculean task of re-reading these starting next month.

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Originally Posted by Shorty

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Originally Posted by ToriJ

I find myself liking some of the character descriptions in the books more. Like how all of the Starks minus Arya and Jon have red hair and blue eyes.

Granted, I'm not that bothered by the TV version.

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I don't think Bran or Rickon have red hair and blue eyes. Or do they?

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Bran does, Rickon isn't as specific but it still says he favors his mother's side so some artists draw him with red hair and blue eyes. All of the Stark children favor their mother side in appearance sans Arya and Jon.

In just over a year's time, I have finally finished this godforsaken series. That epilogue, though!

Did winter come yet?

As a matter of fact, friend, it has.

Have any of you picked up The World of Ice & Fire? I've only had a chance to flip through it but the art is gorgeous and the histories seem crazy in-depth.

I have it on my Kindle! Haven't opened it up yet, though.

I picked it up the other day. Haven't had a chance to read much of it yet though.

I don't have a source because I'm being a lazy ass, but I keep hearing that Winds of Winter is supposed to come out next year. Any truth to that?

The release date is still up in the air, as far as I know.

It needs to hurry up.

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Originally Posted by Kalevala

The release date is still up in the air, as far as I know.

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Just looked it up and Martin debunked those rumors I've been hearing two days ago. Shame.